libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2019-02-10

fsmithredand just did an upgrade of refracta ascii to beowulf on another machine, and I'm liking it00:00
greenjeansI think i'll just start working on beowulf, then when it's ready (early next year?) I should have a decent one made00:01
greenjeansmy jessie installs are just stupid stable, I don't think i've even upgraded any packages in 6 months00:01
greenjeansmaybe i'll try cinnabar as an option, or better yet as some small accents to my gray/black theme00:02
greenjeanslike an accent wall00:02
technivorefsmithred, we are agree i install grub on boot partition ?00:03
fsmithredbuster is already moving into freeze "Starting 2019-02-12, only small, targeted fixes are appropriate for buster. "00:03
fsmithredtechnivore, I would try booting from both drives just to be sure.00:04
technivorei try00:04
technivoreon the second it say it can boot00:05
fsmithredbut normally, yes you would put the bootloader on the same drive as /boot.00:05
fsmithredok, so boot.00:05
technivoreit not boot, but strange thing when i update-grub it always find my old 4.19 image00:07
technivoreso update-grub tell me it found my linux image 4.1600:10
technivorebut it couldn t find device with an uuid (my second disk not mount i guess)00:11
greenjeansFSR: Still using YAD? If so are you still having to make custom versions that play nice with GTK3?00:11
technivorelsblk says my mapper home is not a block device00:11
technivoreand update-grub add a menu entry for EFI firmware00:12
ballballwell I was going to register on the forum to ask this but apparently having a VPN triggers the spam filter so I will dump this help request here00:14
ballball(my computer is running Ascii with MATE) One day I woke up to find that my computer had either rebooted or logged me out or something like that, I was at the login screen for devuan's default login manager which I think is slim.  I tried to login, and it took a while before reporting that the login had failed or something like that.  I can login from tty1 etc. but that gives me no graphical user interface.  What's more, ever since00:14
ballballthis incident, ethernet connections don't work with devuan on this computer anymore.  On the other hand, ethernet connections on this computer work just fine in debian stretch which I happened to end up trying.  I don't know how to do a WLAN connection from the terminal, so effectively on the devuan ascii install that is on the internal drive of this laptop (which is the main subject of this post), I have no internet connection.  now,00:14
ballballthe login manager thing is not really that much of a concern, since if I can somehow get the packages for lightdm, that will probably work (another devuan ascii install that I'm using with this laptop does let me login via lightdm).  But I have 2 questions:00:14
ballball1.  How can I get the packages for lightdm seeing as I have no internet connection on that install and devuan does not seem to offer the packages via web site like debian does with
ballball2.  What's going on with my ethernet connection?  If you need more information to figure out what's going on with this please let me know how I can provide it.00:14
ballballIn general if you need more info please let me know how I can provide it.  I am currently using this other install of devuan ascii which is on an external hard drive and uses lightdm.00:14
ezcapeask 1 q and wait for an snwer, and then ask the n3xt00:15
ballballok, the second question is first priority then00:15
ezcapegood luck :)00:16
golinuxballball: Or you could straighten out your forum registration00:21
fsmithredtechnivore, check if /sys/firmware/efi exists00:22
fsmithredand is there a fat32 partition on one of the disks?00:22
technivorehow can i check ?00:22
fsmithredso you booted in uefi mode. Did your bios get re-set to factory defaults?00:22
fsmithredum, fdisk -l00:23
fsmithredgreenjeans, I changed the kind of window I was using for the ones that had off-screen buttons00:23
fsmithredand the problem with disappearing windows went away, possibly with some package updates00:24
ballballcan't do that golinux because I just hit the spam filter00:24
ballballI guess there is one possibility which is to not use the VPN but I don't like that00:25
technivorefsmithred, no fat32 (exept on the usb key i use for rescue), i check the bios, always not in uefi00:27
golinuxballball: You can't but I can00:27
ballballwait, you can fix the registration?00:28
greenjeansooh, new YAD as of 4 days ago, no .deb, gotta compile, really love that lil dialog prog00:28
fsmithredok, so for some reason the usb booted in uefi mode00:28
ballballthat would be very much appreciated00:28
golinuxDuh . . .00:28
golinuxof course00:28
fsmithredballball, you reached the CEO00:29
ballballI did not know that  :o00:30
fsmithredit's not a problem. You just got lucky.00:30
fsmithredtechnivore, if you have the installer disk/usb that you used, boot that, go to advanced menu and find your way to "reinstall bootloader"00:32
technivorei try it fail00:33
technivorei will retry to be sure and to show log message00:34
technivorei have to pick reinstall grub right00:34
technivoreshould i pick sda or sda100:35
technivoresda1 is boot00:35
technivoregrub will not proceed with blocklist00:36
fsmithredno use /dev/sda not /dev/sda100:38
fsmithredinstall it to mbr, not to partition00:39
technivorenot work00:42
fsmithredwhat error did you get?00:42
technivoresomething more understable :)00:42
technivoreno bios boot partition on the gpt partition label00:43
fsmithredok, got it00:43
fsmithreddid you just add a new disk?00:43
technivorei just update00:43
fsmithreddid you re-partition a drive?00:43
fsmithreddo both drives have gpt partition table, or just one?00:44
technivorehow can i check ?00:44
fsmithredand if it's one, is it the one with the OS or not?00:44
fsmithredfdisk -l00:44
fsmithredDisklabel type:00:44
greenjeanstechnivore: you just updated some packages and then started having problems?00:45
greenjeansahh, gotcha00:45
fsmithredyeah, that's really strange00:45
greenjeansI would go back and look at list of what was updated and start there for troubleshooting00:45
fsmithredthe message relates to using a disk with gpt but booting legacy bios00:46
greenjeanspossibly even re-install the updates just in case it glitched during the download00:46
fsmithredgrub needs a special partition for that00:46
greenjeansif that fails roll back packages until system works right00:46
greenjeanstrue, gotta have boot partition, but why would it work before that?00:47
technivoreok now let me inform you of some extra information00:47
greenjeansi'm assuming he had grub to start with00:47
fsmithrednot boot partition - bios-grub partition00:47
fsmithredyes, more info00:47
technivoremy 2 disk are gpt00:48
fsmithredso you need a special partition00:48
fsmithredat least 1MB in size00:48
fsmithredi.e. no filesystem on it00:48
fsmithreddo you use gparted or gdisk?00:48
technivorei prefer gparted i not know all command on gdisk00:49
technivorebut if someone guide me i don t care00:50
fsmithredin gparted, when you normally choose the filesystem type, go to the bottom of the list to select unformatted00:50
greenjeansstill wondering how it worked before if it was using GPT and grub00:50
greenjeanswith no MBR00:50
fsmithredgood question, greenjeans00:50
greenjeanswell i'm good at questions, for answers I come to you, lol00:51
fsmithredif there's a place to make a tiny partition (2-3MB) then it can do no hard00:51
fsmithredtechnivore, the other thing you need is to set the bios_grub flag on this partition00:52
technivoremaybe i can shrink my boot partition (near than 500M)00:52
technivorelet me start on a live00:52
fsmithredyeah, you can spare a couple MB00:52
greenjeansyay, Refracta download finished, okay I gotta run, good chatting with you FSR and Golinux, see ya soon!00:52
fsmithredgood to00:53
fsmithredforgot how fast he is00:53
technivoresomething i can say it s my girl friend have a similar issue last week end00:54
technivoreand i fix it by reinstall but i can t do it for my computer because my (home) lvm is on the twice device00:55
technivorei also not use systemd and i m asking myself if in the future debian team will not remove grub as default and replace it by systemd boot system00:57
fsmithredyou're gonna give me bad dreams00:58
MinceRafaik that can only boot via uefi00:58
MinceR(of course, the cultists love uefi)00:58
technivorei want more money to take time to improve devuan ...00:59
technivoreok i m on it01:04
technivoreat the end of my disk there is 1.02M not allocated01:04
technivorecan i use it fsmithred01:04
fsmithredwhich end?01:05
fsmithredI would shrink the back side of the /boot partition01:05
fsmithredand not touch the ends of the disk01:05
technivoreso the end of my boot partition right01:06
technivore2M ?01:06
technivoreok not allocated01:07
fsmithrednow make a new partition there01:07
technivorenot formated01:07
fsmithredunformatted, bios_grub flag01:07
fsmithredyou're not near the limit of primary partitions01:07
technivoreso bios_boot flag01:08
fsmithrednow you can go back and install grub01:08
fsmithredand it should not give you that same message (it should work)01:08
DocScrutinizer05many of you might have missed: [9 Feb 2019 22:48:54] [wallops] Users of mIRC are urged to update their client to the latest version (v7.55) as versions previous are affected by a Remote Code Execution vulnerability. Any users found abusing this vulnerability will face a network ban. For more information see (as of now unreleased) CVE-2019-6453 and
technivorefsmithred, i just show my usb key is in 9.3 it can be a problem ?01:11
technivoreor we don t care01:11
fsmithredI don't understand01:11
fsmithredoh, that's an old point release?01:11
technivoremy usb rscue key use debian 9.301:12
fsmithredshould be ok01:12
fsmithredcan't make it any worse01:12
fsmithredI think it just chroots into the system, so it should use whatever is installed there01:13
technivorei mount the /boot ?01:13
technivorei select /dev/sda01:15
technivoreit s work01:15
technivoreshould i do a update-grub ?01:15
technivoreor it s already done01:15
fsmithrednot sure if it was done01:15
fsmithredit would have listed any kernels it found01:15
fsmithredand background image if there is one01:15
fsmithredif you're in chroot, yeah run update-grub01:16
technivoreno message in the installer or on log tty01:16
fsmithredno news is good news?01:17
technivoreit s an internationnal proverb ?01:17
fsmithrednever thought about that, but it wouldn't surprise me01:18
technivorebecause we have it in french01:18
technivoreonly complain about disk uuid/lvm01:19
technivorei reboot01:19
technivoreit s look like it s work01:21
technivorei will try to upgrade the kernel01:22
fsmithredwhat kernel are you using?01:22
technivorethe 4.16 i downgrade like you tell me01:23
technivoreat the begginning01:23
technivoreit will not be a trouble now01:23
fsmithredyou're on testing or stable with backports kernel?01:23
technivoreno testing01:24
technivoredebian testing01:24
fsmithredyeah, same kernel as devuan01:24
technivore"without" systemd01:24
technivorethis thing is everywhere01:25
fsmithredI did an install of beowulf (=buster) last week, encrypted lvm, and it wouldn't boot01:25
technivoreaka i use sysv-rc01:26
technivorei m really afraid by the future of debian01:26
fsmithredit's not so bad01:26
technivorehope so01:27
fsmithredthere's a team of debian and devuan devs working on sysvinit01:27
technivorei know that i m on devuan mailing list01:27
gnarfacedoing what to it though?  i think i'm more afraid of that than anything else01:27
gnarfacei would have classified it as "not broken"01:28
technivoremy english is bad i m not understand gnarface ^^ maybe the lack of sleep01:29
fsmithredjust making sure it still works01:29
gnarfacedon't worry about it technivore, i'm just being rhetorically negative01:30
technivoremode conpany on01:32
technivorethere is some kink of recrutment for working on devuan ? for a company ?01:33
technivoreor only volonteers ?01:33
fsmithredgnarface, they're making sure sysvinit is still in debian01:34
gnarfacefsmithred: hilarious01:34
gnarfacefsmithred: (i think they missed that boat)01:34
gnarfacetechnivore: no company, just volunteers:
gnarfacetechnivore: though i think it probably would qualify to become a scientific non-profit in the US, i don't know if anyone has actually tried to put the paperwork through for that01:36
technivoreok, should can be could to have money, this day i will really glad to put one of my dev at fulltime job on it01:37
gnarfacefsmithred: do you know anything about that?  501(c)(3) status for devuan?01:38
gnarfaceif mozilla deserves it, devuan certainly does too01:38
gnarfacethis is the second time it has been asked about recently01:39
furrywolfmy understanding is it's a lot of paperwork and hassle, and since we're not actually paying any taxes anyway, since no one makes a dime...01:40
technivorei currently try to make a saas solution based on devuan for companies01:40
technivoreif it work i pretty sure i take more time in devuan improvment01:41
technivoredo you know if kde is available in beowulf ?01:41
gnarfacefurrywolf: i know the application process is a lot of hassle, but part of the point is also to save potential donors on their taxes, to encourage more generous donations01:41
technivorea donation like the gnome one can be cool ^^01:42
gnarfacetechnivore: afaik kde should be present in beowulf... working, no idea, but present, yes01:43
gnarfacetechnivore: you can do package searches here:
technivoreit s the fork without systemd or the debian verrsion work without it01:43
gnarfacethat, i'm not sure either.  in most such cases though, basically they have just removed functionality01:44
gnarfaceso temperature sensors and such may not work01:45
gnarfacesuspend/hibernate too01:45
gnarfacei think01:45
gnarfaceif they fixed it, it would depend on lm-sensors like before, so that is how you can check01:45
technivoreok i will01:46
gnarfacecheck for lm-sensors and libsensors*01:46
technivoremy gf use kde and we will use beowulf to migrate our debian testing machine01:47
fsmithredgnarface, I'm not certain, but I think it's still under which does have that status01:47
technivoreshould i install signed and unsigned image ?01:47
fsmithredreinstall might be easier than migrating buster to beowulf01:48
fsmithredbut I shouldn't discourage you from trying - I think you would be the first01:49
technivoreyes i know but it can learn much things01:49
fsmithredplease let us know how it goes01:49
technivorei already open a post on the forum01:49
technivorebut i have some trouble with my vlan fw i have to fix before go furthur more01:50
fsmithredlooks like I can install plasma-desktop on beowulf01:51
technivorelook coool01:51
furrywolfdo we actually have monetary donors?  :)01:52
fsmithredyes, furrywolf01:52
fsmithredthere's even a financial report and money in the bank01:53
fsmithred(I assume it's in a bank and not in mattresses, but some of it might be in bits)01:53
technivoreso after install of the last kernel the computer boot02:00
technivoreso thx to all of you02:01
fsmithreddid you use a different name on the forum?02:01
technivorei really love the devuan community02:01
technivoreprobably WT or wild turtles02:01
technivoreand on my main computer i m here with the humangeek username02:02
HumanG33kSo thx for all i go to my bed now ^^ and this is my post
fsmithredsleep well02:07
HumanG33kyou to if you have to soon in your timezone02:09
cybpunkhey, any admin?03:17
gnarfaceit's always best to just ask the question and hope for an answer, cybpunk03:19
cybpunki'm unable ti register in the forum, i put the wrong email03:19
cybpunksays now: spammer03:19
cybpunkalso how can i install wine 4?03:23
golinuxcybpunk: Hi03:24
golinuxI enabled your account with the wrong email.  LOL!  Let's PM03:24
Glatswrong terminal haha04:45
Ji-eF[m]Where can I find a log of all the messages that appears at boottime ? Not just dmesg, but those with that [ OK ], [Done], [Warn], [Fail] ? Does it requires a package installation or some flag in kernel command line ?09:24
va7lnxJi-eF[m]: try /var/log/syslog09:38
Ji-eF[m]va7lnx thanks, but no, it doesnot contain what I want  :)10:28
va7lnxsorry. anything would be in /var/log10:28
va7lnxat least as far as I know10:28
Ji-eF[m]I found something interesting in /etc/rc.conf (openrc conf file), I'll try that...10:29
Ji-eF[m]That did it ! Enabled rc_logger and on next boot, had a fancy log in /var/log :)10:48
Ji-eF[m]va7lnx , thanks for your input :)10:48
va7lnxthere you go10:51
KatolaZJi-eF[m]: you need bootlogd11:03
KatolaZoh you are on openrc11:04
KatolaZsorry for the noise11:04
amarsh04I think my eudev 3.2.7-5 to 3.2.7-6 upgrade broke things and I don't have copies of 3.2.7-5 any more nor listed as available in aptitude11:38
amarsh04is there a snapshot repository for Devuan specific packages?11:39
amarsh04thanks debdog11:41
roo^yI just fitted a ssd into my mele pcg35 opo. I installed rEFInd to a usb flash drive, & refracta 9. I think I'll also install rEFInd to the ssd before trying the refracta usb to install12:25
roo^yi booted partition 1 of USB flash drive with rEFInd on it, which didn't offer me anything to boot refracta 9 on partition 2 i booted refracta on partition 2 *sucessfully* realising I didn't need rEFInd :)15:53
roo^yWicd network manager was a nightmare. Wouldn't detect my new android's wifi hotspot, my old iphone5's hotspot, or usb internet tether to android. It's currently internet connected to android via bluetooth. (I've also installed the included 'intelwimax' deb, but i may have to restart for it to work with wifi..)15:59
fsmithredroo^y, yeah, some of the wireless need a reboot, which won't work in a live system. Maybe 'init 1' will work in some cases.16:07
fsmithredmake sure the default wireless interface is listed in wicd prefs16:08
roo^yprefs has wireless: wlan0 (whereas 'wired auto connection' has option to 'use default..'16:14
roo^yi put init 1 into root terminal, & came back to desktop with ctrl D. i don't think it was enough to get wifi working16:25
fsmithredmodprobe (if you know what to tell it)16:36
roo^ymodprobe i'm an aussie n00b so plz work your magic :P This seems like a good OS to install, so i'll leave it running overnight, & have a play with it tomorrow, & even if the CPU goes haywire like the experimental OS i was using,  I'll probably have a go of the installation feature to see if full install works better16:52
roo^ywhile researching rEFInd, I saw puppylinux's fatdog64 has it, so i'll no dout have that on a USB as a secondary OS16:59
fsmithredroo^y, when I search for debian intelwimax or intel wimax, this page keeps coming up:
fsmithredcheck the list of supported devices to see if yours is on it. Run 'lspci | grep -i net' to get the names of your network interfaces17:22
fsmithrediwlwifi will work without a reboot17:22
roo^ythanks for the help. nearly 3:30am here. guess i'll power myself down soon17:23
fsmithredgood idea17:23
Zajcevhelou gays, please, is there any magic stuff to make sudo user working in devuan? I've tried usual steps but it does'nt work ...18:24
fsmithredZajcev, install sudo, then either add user to sudo group or edit /etc/sudoers to allow user the admin commands you choose18:31
Zajcevfsmithred: allready did of course18:37
fsmithredyou logged out and in after adding to sudo group?18:38
Zajcevfsmithred: omg ... shame on me ... sorry18:39
ZajcevI need a little break18:39
fsmithredlol, you're not the first one to forget that, I know for a fact.18:39
Zajcevfsmithred: little silly question ... is devuan going to stay here for ages? :-)18:42
ZajcevI like it, and I'd like to switch from debian18:42
fsmithredyes, Zajcev. There are devs getting paid to manage servers running devuan, so they are invested in keeping it working.18:44
Zajcevfsmithred: thumbs up18:54
_abc_This been linked here before? Benno Rice?
golinuxProbably.  Lots of discussion about him recently21:49
_abc_Who is Benno in the devuan context?21:51
_abc_golinux: ?21:54
golinuxHe's trying to get BSD to adopt systemd iirc21:56
golinuxAnyone who is aggressively promoting systemd is important for devuan to know about.21:56
_abc_Is he PROMOTING it?21:57
golinuxI got that impression21:58
golinuxHe talks about how wonderful and 'modern' systemd is21:59
_abc_Well one takes away the general idea from there that systemd might one day be something promising. Not now.22:01
_abc_So all the promises he makes are future tense. Not present.22:03
_abc_And in particular he says openly that systemd seems to be a ripoff of launchd, at least the ideas and the config mode22:04
r3bootAlso, does this really matter for Devuan? I guess not, unless Devuan/kFreeBSD would exist or so (now *that* would be something I'd run :P)22:05
_abc_incidentally launchd is in freebsd since 2006 or so r3boot22:07
r3bootyep. There are a bunch of init systems in fbsd; Replacing its /sbin/init tho, I dont think theres any research on that (there is on calling a 2nd init system from rc.d)22:08
_abc_Well, the system is very stable so why upgrade :)22:09
r3bootAlso, there was djb's daemontools. That implements more or less the same model as systemd uses (running services in the foreground instead of the background)22:10
golinux_abc_: We don't need for BSD to jump on the systemd train.  We need more systemd-free distros not fewer22:11
r3bootActually ... ;+22:14
r3boot_abc_: nice talk, thnx. He seems to have a pretty balanced viewpoint, and is coming up with some pretty constructive & rational guidelines22:42
_abc_for the future. Not now :)22:43
r3boothe is basically saying, look; systemd is here to stay. Instead of trying to fight it, he is suggesting to study & learn from it, since it is solving a bunch of problems that unix has been struggling with for quite some time22:45
_abc_Yes, the emphasis is on in the future. It's not a solution, it has potential :)22:45
r3bootyep :)22:46
gnarfacethe problem i have is that largely those things, in my opinion have been the opposite of problems, they've been protections23:06
gnarface(and if the people making systemd didn't feel like that too, they wouldn't be actively trying to force everyone to use it)23:07
DrDeker3boot: what talk is this? i think i joined after you linked it23:09
DrDekeor, after whomever linked it linked it23:09
gnarfacethe fact the software might one day redeem itself through the sheer willpower and brute force of volunteer contributions is really aside from the point (imo)23:10

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