libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-06-13

plasma41eyalroz: I have a feeling redrick would be happy to give you his answer to the last question.00:26
fsmithredeyalroz, the dns thing was a wild guess. I looked at the url for the video and it was youtu.be00:33
fsmithredand if you want to change it, change it to anything but your ISP00:34
fsmithredassuming they're screwing with results00:34
fsmithreddid you try purging and reinstalling chromium?00:36
systemdleteI downloaded the source to sudo hoping to match the debug logging output with the source code lines.  I notice that debian has patches, and I want to know whether/how to apply these patches.  The patches are located in a separate subdir (from the "debian" tar file) from the subdir (from the "orig" tar file).04:12
systemdleteIs this just a straightforward matter of using patch(1) to apply these, or is that the wrong way to do this?04:12
specingthere is an apt gimme sources command04:12
systemdleteI am not familiar with the exact complexity of the process, sorry.04:12
fsmithredI'm no expert, but you list the patches you want to apply in a file04:12
systemdleteAlready have them.04:12
fsmithredI'll remember the name...   series (I think)04:13
systemdletefsmithred:  yes, series04:13
systemdleteso I just apply those?04:13
fsmithredthey get applied when you build the package04:13
systemdleteOf course.  But I don't really need to build it... yet.04:13
systemdleteAt least, I hope the source can reveal for me the trouble I am having.04:14
systemdleteI'm trying to be bold-and-brave and figure out why I cannot get sudo to work as the manual pages instruct.  I've tried many things, to no avail.04:14
fsmithredwhat's the problem?04:15
systemdleteI just ran make, but I can see already that patches have not been applied. So I have not done this right?04:18
fsmithredno, not even close04:18
fsmithredyou need to read about debian packaging04:18
fsmithredmaybe try 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -b'04:19
systemdletefsmithred:  The problem is that I want to run ONE command as root without prompt for password04:19
fsmithredno, run as user04:19
fsmithredinstall fakeroot04:19
fsmithredyou'll need to install a few things04:19
systemdletesudo can do this, per the man pages04:19
fsmithredsudo do what?04:20
systemdleteI want to run ONE command as root without prompt for password.04:20
fsmithredthat's what you're trying to get sudo to do?04:20
systemdleteSo I've turned on debug logging in sudo to try to figure out why it is prompting, even though I expressed "NOPASSWD:" in the sudoers file04:20
systemdleteyes, that is it...04:21
fsmithredI have about a dozen commands set up for that04:21
systemdleteSo I added a line in visudo:   myuser mypc= NOPASSWD: /path/to/program04:22
fsmithredwith command aliases04:22
fsmithredmine looks pretty much like that except ALL instead of mypc04:23
systemdletecommand aliases are extra at this point; I just want to make this work for now.  I can go back and get fancier later04:23
fsmithredno need for just a single command04:23
systemdletejust a single command04:23
systemdletefor one user on one machine, without prompt for password04:23
systemdleteI mean, I can change mypc to "ALL" and same problem04:24
systemdletethis is on ascii, btw, with all updates applied04:24
fsmithredI'm on jessie, but I've got similar on ascii and beowulf04:24
systemdleteI've read through a lot of man pages, and docs I've found around the web.04:25
systemdleteI feel like I should be able to do this one simple thing.04:25
fsmithredhere's what I have in /etc/sudoers.d/user_shutdown:04:26
fsmithreduser ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/pm-suspend, /usr/sbin/pm-hibernate, /sbin/halt, /sbin/reboot04:26
fsmithredworks in jessie, ascii, beowulf04:26
fsmithred(worked in wheezy and squeeze, too)04:27
fsmithredyou did log out and log in again after making the changes?04:27
systemdleteI tried this in the main sudoers file, using visudo.04:27
systemdleteI opened a new terminal04:28
fsmithredI don't think that's enough04:28
systemdletehow about if I try logging in at a console terminal?04:28
fsmithredthat should work04:29
systemdleteOk, that way I don't need to disconnect from hexchat and all04:29
systemdleteno better from console login04:31
fsmithreddidn't work here, either04:32
fsmithredlog out and log in04:32
systemdletewell, logging in from a console is, essentially, doing that:  logging out and logging in.  Except there's no log out part.04:32
fsmithredThen it should have worked here04:33
fsmithredbut it didn't04:33
systemdleteI'll create a 2nd user just for testing.  Add that to the sudoers, then log in from console as that new user04:33
systemdletetry it there04:34
systemdleteor, I could try this on my testbox...04:34
onefangI agree with fsmithred, that's the same sort of config I have, on ASCII, and it works fine.04:34
systemdleteshall I conclude that my box is cursed?04:35
systemdleteI mean, there's got to be some explanation04:35
onefangnagios ALL=NOPASSWD: /bin/btrfs device stats *04:35
systemdletemaybe pam or some other security subsystem interfering?04:35
fsmithredI'll bet you're trying to run a command that's not in your path04:35
fsmithredno, I'm trying to do that04:36
systemdleteI gave the explicit path in the sudoers, and use the explicit path to invoke in sudo04:36
golinuxMaybe this?  Haven't read all the scrollback . . .
golinuxJust for reference purposes if nothing else.04:37
systemdletethanks, golinux.  I'll take a look at that if we can't figure this out here.04:38
fsmithredOK, it does work here if I make a change and then log in on console without logging out of desktop04:39
fsmithredand I don't need to give the path in the command04:39
fsmithredsudo fdisk -l worked04:39
systemdlete"make a change?"04:39
fsmithredyeah, I added /sbin/fdisk to the list of commands04:40
systemdleteok, let me try something like that04:40
systemdletehmmm.  still not working for me04:42
systemdleteI added /sbin/fdisk to the list for the same user, logged in from console, no dice04:42
systemdletestill wants passwd04:42
fsmithredyour hostname is in /etc/hosts?04:43
systemdleteok, let me try ALL instead...04:43
systemdleteno difference, even if I log in from console04:45
fsmithredtry putting it in sudoers.d/something04:45
systemdleteI've never done that.  Do I still use visudo?04:45
systemdletejust plain editor04:45
fsmithredjust edit as root04:45
fsmithredone line04:46
systemdleteit worked04:47
systemdlete(this time at least)04:47
fsmithredthat's a smile04:47
systemdleteI know.  And ??? is perplexed and confused04:48
systemdlete(as well as utterly amazed)04:48
systemdleteI didn't even have to do a console login!04:48
fsmithredI don't know. I used to put my lines in /etc/sudoers and they worked.04:48
systemdleteso, addding it to a include file works.  Adding to /etc/sudoers doesn't?04:50
systemdletethat's why I asked "why?"04:50
fsmithredI don't know the answer. It might be hidden in the man page somewhere.04:51
systemdletechecking that now04:51
systemdletethe only thing I see is this:  " Note that unlike files included via #include, visudo will not edit the files in a04:52
systemdlete     #includedir directory unless one of them contains a syntax error.  It is still possible to04:52
systemdlete     run visudo with the -f flag to edit the files directly"04:52
onefangAh yes, I put mine in the include directory, and I don't use visudo.04:54
systemdleteonefang:  love it04:54
systemdleteso, I conclude that visudo is necessary to check syntax, but if you don't use visudo, you should, even though there's fewer issues like mine04:55
systemdleteor something even more contorted and ridiculous than that04:56
onefangMeh, if it works, I know the syntax is correct.  B-)04:56
* systemdlete takes his head and proceeds to bash it against something very, very hard04:56
systemdleteonefang: indeed04:56
systemdleteIn the header of the sudoers file:  "Please consider adding local content in /etc/sudoers.d/ instead of directly modifying this file."05:00
systemdleteok.  So, thanks to onefang and fsmithred.05:01
onefangCoz /etc/sudoers might get updated by apt.05:01
onefangYou are welcome.05:02
systemdleteI don't quite follow the logic of why this works, but... ugh.  OK.05:02
systemdleteyou guys are great, really05:02
systemdleteI just wish some of these tools were a bit more... idk, consistent?  predictable?  kind of, what one would expect them to do, rather than some bizarre result if you don't read every last bit of literature ever written about them?05:03
* furrywolf wonders why systemdlete is bashing his head against poettering's head05:03
systemdleteAh, I know: "obvious."  That's the word05:03
systemdletefurrywolf:  Because (if you didn't already know this) when I finally stop, it will feel much better.05:04
systemdlete(not sure about Mr. P)05:04
onefangJust remember that all of these tools are written by random people, for random reasons.05:06
systemdleteThe man page should say, somewhere, preferably in the section about included files, that things work differently in the external files than in the main sudoers file05:06
systemdleteSo I should expect random results sometimes.  LOL!05:06
fsmithredmost of these things have been around for decades05:07
fsmithredthe *.d thing is fairly recent05:07
fsmithredgive the docs a few more years to catch up05:08
systemdleteI'm not the only fool who has fallen into the jaws of sudo, see:
systemdleteand here,, apparently it is acknowledged that not everything is quite what one would expect:  " if you take the EBNF in the manpage seriously enough, you will discover that the implementation doesn't follow it."05:14
systemdleteI post these as declarations that I am not (quite) crazy.  (Yet.)05:15
systemdleteI may have found the culprit, here: which says "The sudoers file is read in one pass so when multiple entries match for a user, they are applied in order. Where there are conflicting values, the last match is used (which is not necessarily the most specific match)."05:27
systemdleteI had my user spec before the sudo group rule!05:28
fsmithredyou're in there more than once?05:28
systemdletenot exactly.  My user is part of the sudo group05:28
fsmithredah, makes sense05:29
systemdleteso the first match is on my user spec, but it ignores that when it matches the sudo group spec05:29
systemdletesense, finally.05:29
systemdletebut even then, not what I'd expect.  I'd think the first rule that matches would be the effective rule.05:29
fsmithredI think the guy in the serverfault thread didn't use the right line in his sudoers05:29
fsmithrednah, the last05:30
systemdletewhy the last?05:31
onefangSo the stuff in the includes gets to override it.05:31
systemdleteah, true.05:31
systemdletewhich is what ultimately happened in my case.05:31
systemdletebut includes are recent05:31
systemdletebut anyway, this is good to know.  Ties it all together, finally.  Thanks again05:32
fsmithredI learned something05:32
systemdletefrom the sudoers man page (which I did read, and I remember reading this part, but it just didn't quite hold in my brain):  "When multiple entries match for a user, they are applied in order. Where there are multiple matches, the last match is used (which is not necessarily the most specific match)."05:34
fsmithredlike I said - hidden in the man page05:35
systemdleteI guess at the point I was reading that section, I had not yet observed that the user in question was part of the sudo users group, or that a sudo users group existed (I know I should have known that sudo group existed, but it just wasn't in my main cache at that moment)05:36
systemdletehidden in plain sight.  For anyone who actually READS.  And I really need to improve my man page reading skills.  I do this a lot it seems.05:37
* systemdlete kicks himself in the head, twice, just to be sure05:38
onefangTwice with each foot?05:38
systemdleteno, feet go in mouth.05:38
systemdlete(I feel so dumb...)05:38
systemdleteI actually absorbed the BNF descriptions more than the plain text.05:40
systemdleteNext time I'm in the forest, I will be sure to look at the trees... in great detail.05:41
slvrget better at cache eviction.05:41
systemdleteslvr:  How?05:44
systemdleteRead each man page twice from beginning to end, without falling asleep I mean?05:44
fsmithredsounds painful05:45
fsmithreduh-oh, it's past my bedtime05:45
onefangGood night.05:46
systemdletenight fsmithred05:47
systemdleteok, time for a system test here.  Thanks to all again05:48
ham5urgI have installed Devuan-Beowulf/Testing. Libfreerdp is a package I depend and as stated here it's version is 2. After installation I took a look and found /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ Just to be sure I installed Testing, I check sources.list which shows:  deb beowulf main contrib08:43
ham5urgJust curious what happened?08:44
Jjp137from what I can tell, you need to install freerdp2-related packages if you want to actually use version 208:54
Jjp137there's similar examples of that in Debian but I'm drawing a blank right now...08:57
Jjp137oh right it's similar to like SDL 1.2 and SDL 2 if you heard of those libraries08:57
TauronGuyBeowulf...what a cool name08:59
TauronGuyis it a bad idea to install to DE's during install?09:01
TauronGuyor will there be conflict09:01
Jjp137do you mean two* DEs? if so, they may conflict if they use different policykit backends, which is detailed in the release notes09:04
Jjp137this is assuming ascii of course09:04
TauronGuyyes two lol09:04
TauronGuyyes in ascii09:04
Jjp137you can get around it by installing the other one manually afterwards09:05
Jjp137just pick your favorite one for now :)09:05
TauronGuyso can I do KDE/Cinn can coexist09:05
TauronGuybut they are both my fav :09:05
TauronGuyyou're right better to just one DE09:05
TauronGuyi can install another one later09:06
ham5urgI installed Guacamole (compiled from original source code, downloaded via git) and I'm just curious why shows freerdp2 as the only option but a look at the filesystem shows /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
Jjp137it's a leftover from ascii, which only has 1.109:08
Jjp137(well, unless you had ascii-backports enabled)09:08
ham5urgIs it possible to update
Jjp137uh that's generated from a script iirc but I don't think there's anything wrong with its results since freerdp2 is indeed the only option on beowulf09:10
Jjp137did you upgrade from ascii?09:10
eyalrozfsmithred: Changing my ISP didn't work.09:11
eyalrozfsmithred: My DNS I mean.09:11
ham5urgNo, I debootstrapped a fresh beowulf.# cat /etc/apt/sources.list09:11
ham5urgdeb beowulf main contrib09:11
Jjp137oh hmm09:11
TauronGuyi can't find the beowulf download09:12
eyalrozfsmithred: Purging and re-installing chromium didn't work either.09:13
Jjp137the most common way to have a beowulf install right now is to change your sources.list and then dist-upgrade09:13
eyalrozAnd for everyone on this channel - I'm trying to resolve this problem:
eyalrozon beowulf, and any ideas are welcome.09:13
pardisham5urg: The output of `dpkg -S /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/` would be helpful here09:14
ham5urgpardis: libfreerdp-core1.1:amd64: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
xinomilo_eyalroz, no trouble here with chromium. rarely using it, but just tested it with yt and it works. did you try running it from terminal?09:21
pardisham5urg: Interesting, and what does `apt-cache policy libfreerdp-core1.1` say?09:21
pardisMight need to pastebin that one, it'll probably be several lines09:21
xinomilo_ham5urg, there's no such package in beowulf. probably leftover from ascii. try purging it if nothing complains09:23
pardisok, so that package isn't available from an APT repo on your system09:26
pardisAt least that's consistent with what your package search showed09:26
pardisBut this means you've either installed it without using APT, or changed your sources.list since installing it09:27
pardisSince that apt-cache policy output confirms that APT does not see it in a repo09:27
TauronGuywhats better lightdm or sddm09:27
golinuxTauronGuy: There are no beowulf isos yet.09:36
golinuxOfficial ones at least.09:36
golinuxTauronGuy:  The DM will possibly depend on which backend your desktop of choice uses.09:38
golinuxRead the ascii release notes to get a feel for it.  Things are a little more flexible in beowulf but best to pick the most compatible one.09:40
TauronGuywhat about KDE09:41
TauronGuywhich one would work best09:41
ham5urgpardis: I've installed the packages as mentioned here:
ham5urg# apt update09:42
ham5urgHit:1 beowulf InRelease09:42
ham5urg# apt install libfreerdp-dev09:43
ham5urgSee here:
ham5urgCite from the pastebin: "libfreerdp-dev is already the newest version (1.1.0~git20140921.1.440916e+dfsg1-13+deb9u3)."09:44
eyalrozxinomilo_: Running chromium from the terminal, you mean?09:44
eyalrozNo, but sure, why not.09:44
xinomilo_libfreerdp-dev is from ascii. let it go..09:47
ham5urgI don't have packages from ascii. Never touched ascii.09:48
xinomilo_well, you got it from someplace09:48
ham5urgYes, that's for sure. But neither did I installed it manually nor did I edited sources.list.09:49
ham5urg# cat /etc/apt/sources.list09:50
ham5urgdeb beowulf main contrib09:50
ham5urg# apt install libfreerdp-dev09:50
ham5urgReading package lists... Done09:50
ham5urgBuilding dependency tree09:50
ham5urgReading state information... Done09:50
ham5urglibfreerdp-dev is already the newest version (1.1.0~git20140921.1.440916e+dfsg1-13+deb9u3).09:50
xinomilo_# apt purge libfreerdp-dev09:51
xinomilo_if nothing complains remove it. check dpkg|apt.logs if you want to see how it installed originally09:51
xinomilo_eyalroz, yes, and check terminal output09:52
eyalrozxinomilo_:  Two errors which look harmless:09:58] Error: /etc/machine-id contains 0 characters (32 were expected).09:58] InitializeSandbox() called with multiple threads in process gpu-process.09:58
xinomilo_yes minor. is hardware acceleration enabled in settings? settings -> advanced settings -> system , use hardware acceleration..10:00
xinomilo_i would also suggest running a new chromium profile to check10:01
TauronGuyanyone know how to install brave on devuan10:29
eyalrozxinomilo_: Disabling hardware acceleration makes the video work. But - without audio (which is otherwise working)11:25
eyalrozSo you're on to something!11:25
eyalrozxinomilo_: Also, a new profile exhibits the same behavior.11:34
eyalrozI should mention I do see the audio's "peaks" in its stream on pavucontrol, but - no audio comes out. I am Getting audiop with Firefox and indepdent playing of the videos.11:34
xinomilo_Firefox plays videos with hardware acceleration on?11:36
xinomilo_and what does this say from chromium ?11:37
eyalrozxinomilo_: FF plays videos with its default settings.11:54
eyalrozchromium says. on that URL, all [v]'s11:54
r3booteyalroz: the /etc/machine-id issue is an easy fix btw; uuidgen | sudo tee /etc/machine-id12:01
eyalrozr3boot: 1. So should  that not be generated by default to avoid getting errors? 2. I don't have uuidgen on my system, which package is it from?12:31
eyalrozr3boot: 2. Never mind, it's uuid-runtime12:32
r3bootAnd 1) and this is my uninformed opinion, since I've been out of distro maintenance for a looooong time. /etc/machine-id is afaik mostly used on systemd-based systems, which use the content of that file as a unique machine identifier (and to be fair, most old unix systems have a similar thing, mostly based on the mac address of the first network card on their bus). This in turn caused things like browsers to use that file in part to ...12:34
r3boot... generate a unique fingerprint (I think/assume. I have no proof of this)12:34
r3bootBack in the day it was mostly useful for licensing btw12:34
fsmithredham5urg, how did you install beowulf?12:57
fsmithredeyalroz, same question - how did you install beowulf? (you probably told me already and I forgot)13:28
fsmithredI'm wondering how you got /etc/machine-id13:28
ham5urgfsmithred: I used what is looking like a mistake. The people on this channel are right, even as I have beowulf in my sources.list, my system is not a beowulf-devuan.13:45
fsmithredhow is it not beowulf?13:46
fsmithredthere are newer refracta isos at
ham5urg# apt-cache policy libfreerdp-dev13:48
ham5urg  Installed: 1.1.0~git20140921.1.440916e+dfsg1-13+deb9u313:48
ham5urg  Candidate: 1.1.0~git20140921.1.440916e+dfsg1-13+deb9u313:48
ham5urg  Version table:13:48
ham5urg *** 1.1.0~git20140921.1.440916e+dfsg1-13+deb9u3 10013:48
ham5urg        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status13:48
fsmithredthat package does not exist in beowulf13:48
fsmithredif you clicked on Download link at my ibiblio site, it brings you to sourceforge13:48
ham5urg# cat /etc/apt/sources.list13:48
fsmithredthose images are devuan jessie13:48
ham5urgdeb beowulf main contrib13:48
fsmithredname of iso you used?13:49
ham5urg# lsb_release -a13:49
ham5urgNo LSB modules are available.13:49
ham5urgDistributor ID:Devuan13:49
ham5urgDescription:Devuan GNU/Linux beowulf/ceres13:49
fsmithredso I'm guessing it was a refracta10-something13:49
ham5urgI deleted the iso already so I'm not sure...13:50
xinomilo_when did you install beowulf?13:50
xinomilo_was it before 02/2018?13:50
fsmithredcouldn't have been13:51
fsmithredlsb shows it was a beowulf build13:51
ham5urgno, just some weeks ago13:51
xinomilo_that package used to be in buster/beowulf till 24/2/2018 :
ham5urgMay the refracta version was from before that date13:51
fsmithredisos were uploaded april 1513:52
fsmithredmade a couple days before that, I think13:52
ham5urgI don't know, but it does not matter to much for me, as it is just a testing machine.13:52
ham5urgBut thanks for investigating13:53
fsmithredwell I'd like to know what's going on13:53
fsmithredI'm the one who made that iso13:53
fsmithredamd64 or i386?13:53
ham5urgIts strange, as sources.list points to a beowulf repo13:54
fsmithredyou got a no-X iso, right?13:54
fsmithredI'm booting the iso in vbox to have a look13:55
fsmithredmy sources.list had, not pkgmaster13:58
fsmithredand nothing freerdp installed13:58
fsmithredwhere'd you get it?13:59
fsmithredaptitude why libfreerdp-dev13:59
fsmithredham5urg, I think you need to install freerdp2-dev since that's what's available in beowulf14:05
ham5urgI installed all packages as named here:
ham5urgI believe I booted with refracta and installed/used debootstrap14:07
ham5urgSo my system was a blank devuan on harddisk.14:08
fsmithredoh, so you started with a pure devuan14:08
ham5urgAnd after that I started to install all packages I needed.14:08
fsmithredthat would explain why you have pkgmaster in sources.list14:08
fsmithredok, here's my theory - there were problems with the repo in april and may14:08
xinomilo_instructions in url are wrong/outdated : "Debian / Ubuntu packagelibfreerdp-dev"14:09
ham5urgI failed to install beowulf with any other distributions14:09
fsmithredsome things were not updating14:09
fsmithredso the old package may have still been hanging around and you were able to install it14:09
fsmithredyou should be able to use the newer package14:09
fsmithredhave you done update/upgrade in the last week?14:10
fsmithredif so, everything should be ok14:10
xinomilo_actually instructions are correct, for debian stretch/devuan ascii. not for buster/beowulf14:14
eyalrozfsmithred: I clean-installed ASCII a few days ago, but kept my home folder from a previous installation; then dist-upgrade'ed to beowulf14:37
fsmithredeyalroz, I can reproduce the error about /etc/machine-id, but it has no effect on function. I can still play the video.15:08
eyalrozfsmithred: Maybe I should try installing an independent chromium binary and see what that does.15:22
fsmithredmaybe we should compare package lists15:23
eyalrozfsmithred: Want a pastebin of dpkg --get-selections?15:28
eyalrozanyway, stand-alone chromium build complains about a missing sandbox. running it without a sandbox, I get video and no audio - even with hw acceleration enabled.15:30
eyalrozSpeaking of audio, by the way15:30
eyalrozpulseaudio is not running in the background by default, for some reason15:30
eyalrozand I need to run it manually to be able to use pavucontrol15:30
fsmithredpulseaudio is nowhere to be seen here15:30
eyalroz... which shows me a "dummy output"15:30
eyalroz"here" = Devuan ?15:31
fsmithredexcept maybe on a picture at the post-office15:31
fsmithredno here means my machines15:31
fsmithredI never install it15:31
eyalrozso what do you use to set the volume?15:31
eyalroz(e.g. on Cinnamon)15:31
fsmithredeither alsamixer in a terminal or volumeicon-alsa on the panel15:32
eyalrozWhen I use alsamixer-gui, it has no effect on anything15:32
fsmithredI think you'd need to get rid of PA for that to work15:32
fsmithredprobably same with volumeicon-also15:33
fsmithredhow do you run chromium in a sandbox? Is that built into the browser?15:33
eyalroz... let me rephrase that. It starts working again if I kill pulseaudio15:33
fsmithredcan you keep it killed, or does it keep coming back?15:34
eyalrozMaybe doing so will have  a positive effect on chromium? let's see...15:34
eyalrozfsmithred: Yay!15:35
eyalrozThat worked.15:35
fsmithredyou have audio and video now, right?15:35
eyalrozfsmithred: Video with no acceleration, audio when pulseaudio doesn't run.15:36
fsmithredI have no advice on PA except to get rid of it. It's too complicated for me to figure out.15:37
fsmithredand when I need a sound server, I use jack15:37
eyalrozfsmithred: So, how do you add volumeicon-alsa to the (Cinnamon) panel?15:37
fsmithredI think you add it to startup applications, wherever that is15:38
eyalrozlet me try that15:39
fsmithredit's /usr/bin/volumeicon15:39
eyalrozHmm, In the "startup applications" dialog, it shows me "PulseAudio", but that's not actually started.15:40
fsmithredmake the entry manually15:40
eyalrozHow come the default audio configuration on Debian is so f'ed up?15:40
fsmithredmaybe they can't figure out how to use PA, either15:40
fsmithredor maybe it's as bad as many people say15:41
eyalrozfsmithred: Well, if they can't figure it out they should configure something else. Like putting the volume icon on people's taskbar and with a decently-painted icon15:43
eyalrozplus, the volumeicon starts the ncurses mixer rather than the (atrocious-looking) GUI mixer15:43
fsmithredRefracta has a little black speaker icon. Is that enough?15:43
eyalrozBetter than nothing, that's for sure :-)15:43
fsmithredI just get a volume slider15:44
eyalrozI used to run mint before switching to Devuan on principle15:44
fsmithredright-click for settings15:44
eyalrozSo I'm kind of spoiled15:44
fsmithredyeah, debian and devuan are more d-i-y15:44
fsmithredoh, Open mixer gives you alsamixer.15:45
eyalrozfsmithred: But that's silly. I mean, of course, not every whim should be catered for, but the default configuration of everything should be reasonable; and for audio, it sort of isn't15:45
eyalrozyeah, ncurses alsamixer! How 1990s :-)15:46
fsmithredit'll work when your mouse dies15:46
gnarfacethere is a alsamixer-gui too15:46
fsmithredyou can change it if you can find a descent mixer15:46
gnarfaceit's just the same thing in gtk15:46
Hurgotroneyalroz: works better than Pulseaudio...15:46
eyalrozHurgotron: pulseaudio worked fine on ASCII15:47
eyalrozfor me anyway15:47
fsmithredfor some reason I thought alsamixer-gui was gone15:47
Hurgotroneyalroz: oh? What mixer do you use for pulseaudio-ascii?15:48
fsmithredalsamixergui (no hyphen)15:48
eyalrozHurgotron: pavucontrol, it's very nice GUI-wise15:48
fsmithredpavucontrol I think it's called15:48
eyalrozYou can't put it in your taskbar though. At least, I've not been able to15:48
eyalrozI wonder if I can make volumeicon start alsamixergui15:49
fsmithredyes, right click to change preferences15:49
eyalrozfsmithred: Oh yeah, works :-)  ... another thing which should have been configured by default IMHO.15:51
eyalrozSpeaking of which... do Debian people - I mean, integrators, no package maintainers - speak to you guys (= Devuan people)? Or is there sort of a disconnect?15:52
fsmithredmostly disconnect15:53
fsmithredrecently (last few months) there's been collaboration on other init systems15:53
fsmithredand on maintaining sysvinit15:54
fsmithredwe do have control over the task- packages for the desktops.15:55
fsmithredso you could make a case to the devs for removing PA, I think.15:55
eyalrozDoes that mean there's a chance they'll make systemd a configurable choice during installation? Or is it just on openrc, upstart etc?15:55
fsmithrednot sure exactly what pulls it in15:55
fsmithredwell, someone recently posted that he's running sid without systemd15:56
fsmithredI don't know if debian will give you a choice of inits during install15:57
eyalrozfsmithred: I don't mind pulseaudio, myself; I just care about whatever installs by default have a working default configuration15:57
eyalrozfsmithred: It doesn't give you that choice now, but it could be a way which would theoretically allow merging Devuan back into Debian15:57
fsmithredok, when the beowulf beta isos come out, please test install cinnamon15:57
eyalroz(or maybe I'm being naive here)15:57
eyalrozfsmithred: I'll do that.15:58
fsmithredwe already have code in devuan installer to let you choose init system15:58
fsmithredso it's possible that will migrate to debian15:58
fsmithredit wouldn't be the first thing that's done that15:58
fsmithredthere's been collaboration on elogind15:58
fsmithredit's possible that devuan will be obsolete in a few years15:59
eyalrozWhat, in your opinion, would be a sufficient set of conditions to "fold" or "merge" Devuan?16:00
fsmithredit's also possible that they will think up new shit that we don't want16:00
fsmithredif our reason for existence goes away16:00
fsmithreddevuan was formed because debian forced systemd on everyone16:00
fsmithredif we're going to keep talking about this, we should move to #debianfork16:01
eyalrozso, will proper support for no-systemd in all packages, plus init system selection during installation, be enough?16:01
fsmithreddon't know. It's not my call.16:01
eyalrozOk, nm, I'll re-ask there.16:01
KatolaZeyalroz: what is your point?16:02
KatolaZare you a debian developer?16:02
fsmithredhe's trying to get me to clarify my statement that devuan might be obsolete in a few years16:02
KatolaZwishful thinking is cheap :)16:02
fsmithredwell, I did also say they might come up with new shit16:03
KatolaZthere is a lot of resistance against anything that promotes multiple choice and/or alterntive choices to systemd16:03
KatolaZelogind has remained in experimental for ages16:03
KatolaZbecause the systemd team does not want it16:03
eyalrozKatolaZ: I'm not a distribution developer/maintainer/activist16:04
krzychhi, what you use for virtualization? qemu does not want to work... How to install virtualbox on devuan ascii?16:05
eyalrozKatolaZ: So you're saying the systemd team has some political influence within Debian... hmm.16:05
fsmithredkrzych, vbox is in ascii-backports16:06
fsmithredand qemu does work for other people. I only use it to boot isos.16:06
KatolaZeyalroz: I am not saying anything16:06
KatolaZI am reporting facts16:07
KatolaZwhich you can access as well by reading debian-devel16:07
KatolaZor debian-init-diversity16:07
eyalrozKatolaZ: Fair enough... ;-)   I'm not on those lists. I'm in over my head enough on other reading material16:07
KatolaZso am I16:08
r3boot.. what I still dont understand, is why instead of writing a patchset for gnome which rips out logind support and replaces it with a pam stack, that people ripped the logind part out of systemd, rebranded + patched that to elogind, and are satisfied with that. But I'll take this to #debianfork, dont worry :)16:10
krzychfsmithred: tnx16:11
fsmithredlol eyalroz I just read your description of working on a personal project. Too true.16:12
eyalrozfsmithred: You mean the "scratching an itch" bit?16:13
eyalrozMost of my time spent working on bidi support in Thunderbird went in to writing HTML email, which I'm personally against16:15
eyalrozand with an HTML editing component in Mozilla which is a steaming pile of garbage16:16
fsmithredon a debootstrap install of beowulf made from a refracta10 live iso, lsb_release -a shows the Release is 10.16:20
fsmithredHow does it know that? I didn't create /etc/lsb-release or put 10 in there anywhere16:20
fsmithredit says devuan (exactly the same output as ham5urg got earlier16:21
fsmithredok, lsb-release hasn't been devuanized yet16:23
fsmithredham5urg, I just noticed that my beowulf debootstrap install has a couple of ascii lines in sources.list. If you have those, you should comment them out and run another update.17:14
ham5urgwhich one?17:18
fsmithredwhich one what?17:18
fsmithredany ascii lines in any beowulf sources.list should be removed17:19
ham5urgI've done so after installation I guess. I'm not sure.18:04
unixmanNo Pale Moon package for Devuan? :( Well, I can just get the statically compiled binary then.23:02
onefangI use the Debian PPA for Pale Moon, works fine for ASCII.
unixmanI got the static build. It's working fine.23:16

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