libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-08-05

furrywolfif we're going to let him use than obnoxious of a nick, can we at least ban him until his client stops reconnecting constantly like it has for several days straight now?07:22
drawkulafurrywolf: i didnt even notice that come & go07:42
drawkulafiltering it away normally07:42
furrywolfhe's been doing it for days now (four times just on the last screenful), with a particularly annoying nick.07:44
drawkulaok... ugly... but I've seen lots of come&go in a higher frequency07:44
furrywolfand again.07:46
furrywolfheh, in my channel, I'd probably ban him just for that nick.07:46
drawkula$ awk '$2=="-->" && $3~/poonta/' .weechat/logs/*#devuan.* | wc -l07:46
drawkulathats not sooo much07:47
drawkulaand the degree of annoyance of a nick is purely subjective07:47
drawkulaI kickbanned one a while ago because of a kidporn related nick...07:48
drawkulahe thought it were funny07:48
drawkulamessia stuff qualifies for a therapy... but not for a kick07:49
furrywolf...  you know what poontang means, right?07:50
furrywolflet me change my nick to cuntgod or something and join repeatedly..07:51
drawkulahas no relation to underaged... so idc07:53
poontangmessiahhello furrywolf, i'm sorry that you don't like my nick, i lost a bet, so i have to use it, hope you understand, i also apologize for my connection issues.07:54
poontangmessiahI'm pretty sure a few letters on your display won't bother you that much07:55
drawkulafor how long?07:55
poontangmessiahdrawkula: until she says so07:56
poontangmessiahcan we please go back on topic now?07:56
furrywolfbbl, wolfy bedtime08:13
* Centurion_Dan ROTFL @ poontangmessiah's predicament... 09:16
kreyreni have issue with pinning on franken debian which is using devuan sources, are you willing to help?11:16
kreyrenexpecting to use libxfce4ui-2-0 on this system11:18
kreyrenfrom devuan11:18
kreyrensince it doesnt seem to have dependency issues with openrc11:18
kreyrenlike this:
fsmithredkreyren, libxfce4ui-2-0 is the same package in debian and devuan12:12
kreyrenfsmithred: doubt assuming that dependencies on devuan are different compared to
kreyrenwhy is it pulling systemd then12:15
fsmithredtry installing without recommends12:17
fsmithredthat's in lieu of an actual answer to your last question12:18
fsmithredsince I don't know the answer (other than "something in the dependency chain...")12:18
kreyrenno recommends are used only gtk-3-0 which is it's dependency12:19
kreyrenoptimizing preferences atm12:19
fsmithredyour priorities are all very high12:20
kreyrenis  `o` option in `Pin: release o=Devuan,a=beowulf` valid?12:24
kreyrenwhy `n` ? debian mensiones `a` for release codename12:25
fsmithrednot sure about using both12:25
fsmithredI'm using n for beowulf, ascii, ceres, a for ascii-backports12:25
kreyrenah true thanks12:25
kreyrenso `a=experimental` is sane?12:26
fsmithredwhat's your main suite?12:27
kreyreneh testing12:27
kreyrenon debian12:27
fsmithredthat's the only one that should have a high priority12:27
fsmithredthen if you want something from anywhere else, you have to specify with -t option12:28
kreyrenexpecting to use devuan sources if debian's are not present like currently used to make openrc working:
kreyrennote that i've defined default branch in /etc/apt/apt.conf12:29
kreyren> APT::Default-Release "bullseye";12:30
fsmithredbullseye will drift away from buster/beowulf before we have a corresponding repo12:31
kreyrenso far it works, expecting to use openrc and it's deps from devuan and rest from bullseye12:32
fsmithredany packages we build for ceres now are headed for beowulf12:32
fsmithredyeah, everyone is on vacation now12:33
kreyreni see12:33
fsmithredeventtuallly, some openrc dep will depend on something that's too new for it12:33
kreyrenwhat do you recommend to get reliable debian with openrc and newer packages that are not maintained to break (like some packages in unstable)12:33
kreyrenthen i would need to resovle it manually or make custom repository12:34
fsmithredI didn't realize that openrc is not in debian12:36
fsmithreddid it used to be there?12:36
kreyreni guess12:37
kreyrenafaik ported by gentoo12:37
fsmithredoh yeah, I guess that's where we got itt12:37
fsmithredI don't know what to tell you.12:38
kreyrenty for help tho12:38
kreyrendrawkula i know, but it needs dependencies from devuan to work without issues12:38
kreyrenlike consolekit2 and eudev12:39
fsmithredfor newer packages, you might backport some yourself12:43
fsmithredsome are easy to do, some are not12:43
kreyrenseems that some package in debian has hard dependency on systemd but i can't find it yet12:44
kreyrensorry webchat kicked me12:47
fsmithredkreyren, the other thing you could try is aptitude instead of apt/apt-get. It might offer a solution.13:05
kreyrenfsmithred  in
kreyren>  eudev : Breaks: systemd (> 220) but 241-7 is to be installed13:07
fsmithreddbus-user-session{a} is a problem. Make sure youu have dbus-x1113:07
kreyren>  dbus-x11 : Depends: libdbus-1-3 (= 1.12.16-1) but 1.12.16-1+devuan2 is to be installed13:08
fsmithredand if you tell aptitude 'no' it will give you another solution13:08
kreyrenaptitude doesnt want to let go of systemd-sysv and other deps13:10
fsmithredyou should really be excuding recommends on all your installs. That will make life easier.13:10
fsmithredIf something you want is excluded, you can add it manually.13:11
kreyreni was thinking about masking libdbus in favor of devuan atm13:11
kreyrenassuming that i need lower version to make this working13:11
fsmithrednothing about all of this has been sane since 201413:12
fsmithredhave you tried running just ceres?13:14
fsmithredthere are a few people who do that13:15
fsmithredyour setup is too unpredictable13:15
kreyrennope, since it's unstable and i would have to cherrypick maintainers who are using repositories as an option instead of making it break to discover bugs (this is rescue OS to my Exherbo/Guix)13:15
fsmithredunstable refers to how quickly package versions change13:17
fsmithredadditional repos on different schedules will increase the rate of change in your system13:17
fsmithredtherefore making it more unstable13:17
kreyrenon debian some maintainers are developing software to break to discover bugs on sid.. is it different on ceres?13:18
fsmithredI don't really understand what you mean13:18
kreyrenlike intentionally make the package to stresstest new feature for security and stability on sid13:18
fsmithrednew versions come from upstream, they get debianized, they go into sid/ceres and people test them13:19
fsmithredif they work, they migrate down to testing13:19
kreyrenyes but some maintainers are also upstream devs using debian with testers for these packages13:20
kreyrenafaik opensll used to have this workflow13:20
fsmithredkreyren, are you using a plain window manager or a full desktop environment?13:23
fsmithredoh right, xfce13:23
kreyrenjust xfce4-terminal temporarely since i'm lazy to make configuration to alacritty since my config is on another system13:24
kreyrenusing openbox13:24
fsmithredmight have better luck with lxterminal13:24
fsmithredbut my general advice is that you need a much more restrictive policy13:25
fsmithredto manage the dependencies13:25
kreyrensame issue on lxterminal13:25
fsmithredeven if you add --no-install-recommends?13:25
kreyren yep13:26
fsmithredusing debian repos with devuan is kinda like having sex with a stranger without a condom13:28
fsmithredaptitude why <package>13:29
fsmithredmight tell you something13:29
kreyreni   xinit          Recommends xterm | x-session-manager | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulatorp   xfce4-terminal Provides   x-terminal-emulator13:30
kreyrenp   xfce4-terminal Provides   x-terminal-emulator13:30
fsmithredcareful about pasting lines here- you can get automatically kicked for too nany13:32
kreyreni know it was just two lines13:33
kreyreni'm upgrading on ceres then13:36
mrohsome moons ago, i had the mix of sid with some ceres debs running13:40
kreyrenmroh: seems sane to run, recommended ?13:40
mrohno, after a while you have to have to many pkgs on hold, because they break...13:41
mrohmaybe i should try an sid openrc install (in a vm or so)...13:42
kreyrenprobably waste of time assuming debian missing eudev and consolekit213:43
mrohi even think about about switching to gentoo/funtoo (after >20 years of sid) ...13:43
kreyreni can recommend exherbo13:43
mrohyeah, consolekit is a problem and recently dconf stuff also...13:45
kreyrenhow do i set default branch on pinning?13:46
kreyrenapt.conf doesnt seem to work13:47
kreyrenassuming `APT::Default-Release "ceres";`13:47
kreyrensanity check:
fsmithredI'd make them all 50 except for one at 50014:12
kreyrenwhy?  assuming `- causes a version to be installed only if there is no installed version of the package`14:18
fsmithredkreyren, I would use 50 so that nothing gets installed unless I specifically request it15:41
kreyreni see15:44
fsmithredI also keep a file in apt.conf.d that excludes Recommends. That helps to prevent a lot of conflicts.16:01
kreyrenit doesnt seems to pull any recommends on my end o.o16:02
fsmithredmaybe not, or maybe they're already installed16:02
fsmithredthere are a lot of conflicts between buster and beowulf. A migration from buster to beowulf can be very difficult right now.16:03
fsmithredTrying to get them to cohabitate might be impossible.16:04
kreyreni see will do16:05
FatPhilHmmm, I was looking for a program, probably called mp3splt, and see a set of libmp3splt0* packages in ascii, but no program that uses those libraries. Is that deliberate/desired?16:59
FatPhilthe lib 'suggests' such a program, but that program doesn't exist.17:00
debdogFatPhil: it's there
debdogoh, you're right, ot does not show up17:51
buZzisnt mp3 -anything- instantly non-free ?18:00
debdogmy sources list says: deb ascii main contrib non-free18:01
debdogand it's not there either:
buZzdebdog: ran apt update yet?18:02
buZz:) dno man, i see it in apt search mp3splt on my ascii system here18:02
debdogbuZz: yes18:03
buZzinstalls just fine aswell18:03
buZzThe following NEW packages will be installed:18:03
buZz  libmp3splt0 libmp3splt0-flac libmp3splt0-mp3 libmp3splt0-ogg mp3splt18:03
debdogremoved the de. and aptitude update again: 76719 (+75421) new.18:08
debdogthough mp3split is not there18:08
debdogbuZz: what's in your sources.list?18:11
buZzdeb ascii main non-free contrib18:11
debdogonly one line left:   cat /etc/apt/sources.list | grep ^deb18:16
debdogdeb ascii main non-free contrib18:16
debdogstill no mp3splt18:16
onefangHmmm, I thought the patent on mp3 ran out years ago?18:25
debdogdafugg, now the libmp3splt packages are gone as well18:25
debdogand now they are back again18:30
onefangI see mp3splt in ASCII, and mp3splt-gtk, in main.18:33
debdogonefang: aptitude show mp3splt | grep Version  ?18:35
buZzsame here18:36
buZzmp3splt/oldstable 2.6.2-dmo2 amd6418:36
furrywolfapt-cache show mp3splt18:48
furrywolfN: Can't select versions from package 'mp3splt' as it is purely virtual18:48
furrywolflooks broken in ascii here...18:48
debdogyah, can't even install it using dpkg -i18:49
debdoglibmp3splt vs. libmp3splt0 issue, on a quick glance18:50
debdogwell, that's above me anyway.18:51
g------dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable dpkg: warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable dpkg: error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin19:01
g------I upgraded to beowulf and this is what I get when I type dpkg -i <package>.deb now19:01
g------weird it works if I type sudo when root19:04
drawkulaaaaaaand? secure_path in dodoers unset?19:43
golinuxdrawkula: The paths in beowulf are really screwed up/  I still don't get it.20:36
drawkulaI didnt stumble into this on 10 beowulfs20:42
drawkulasome upgraded netinstalled asciis, 2 were debian9 transgraded to ascii, then upgraded to beo...20:43
drawkulaI typically install my on .bashrc and .bashrc_local and maybe the problems are in the original .bashrc20:45
drawkulaeeeeh... sometimes I only append sourcing my .bashrc_local to .bashrc20:46
drawkulaoook... I add some paths to the user's PATH especially the "sbin"s but I do not change root's PATH20:50
drawkula" 'ldconfig' not found in PATH " probably comes after a sodo command and /etc/sodoers should set a safe path...20:51
drawkulamaybe I have a different /etc/sodoers?20:51
drawkulaI definitely haven't touched /etc/sudoers on 10 beowulfs20:59
drawkulaso no matter what I have in my user's path, it should™ work...20:59
drawkulaas long as sudo is found...20:59
drawkulastrange matter.21:01
fsmithreddrawkula, in beowulf, 'su' does not give you root's PATH. I forget what sudo does. I could test it if x11vnc didn't decide to give me ALL CAPS21:12
MinceRi think 'su -' does though21:16
furrywolfyou should generally su -21:17
fsmithredMinceR, yes21:18
fsmithredwell, in my case, sudo sees /sbin/reboot, but that might be because I have that command allowed in sudoers.d. User is not in sudo group.21:21
drawkula"g------ | weird it works if I type sudo when root" <<< ok. I assumed he's use sudo from the user account too21:22
drawkulamaybe that wasnt the case?21:22
fsmithredwhat are you saying?21:22
fsmithreddrawkula, is your user in the sudo group?21:23
drawkulamy sudo works21:23
drawkulaI tried to understand g------'s problem21:24
fsmithredoh, it's like this21:24
fsmithredin beowulf, if you 'su' to get root, you get the user's PATH21:24
fsmithredthat's a change from previous releases21:25
fsmithredif you 'su -' then you do get root's PATH (includes sbins)21:25
fsmithredbut then you can't run graphical apps as root, because you don't get user's env21:25
drawkulabut g-⁵ spoke of sudo21:26
drawkulaor wrote21:26
drawkulathat may have been the whole confusion21:26
fsmithredit probably works with sudo as user in that case21:27
fsmithredsudo gets the right path, su doesn't. I don't really understand the logic of that.21:27
furrywolfbbl, work21:27
drawkulalet's assume g-⁵ meant su and wrote sudo...21:29
fsmithredI would not assume that, based on my experience with beowulf21:32
fsmithredok, I just tried it21:33
fsmithredcommand not found21:33
fsmithredthen as root21:33
fsmithredsudo blkid21:33
fsmithredand it works21:33
fsmithredsudo geany works, too.21:34
drawkulalet's assume g-⁵ meant su and wrote sudo in irc (not in the shell)...21:35
drawkulabecause sudo would have worked in the shell21:36
fsmithredthe dpkg warning was given when logged in as root with 'su'21:37
fsmithredit's not written in irc, but I know that's the way it works21:38

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