libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2019-10-13

systemdlete2censure, not censor02:53
FleaFartI had to look it up03:05
FleaFartTo 'censor' means to remove, block, or interfere with the communication of another. To 'censure', on the other hand, means "to find fault with and criticize as blameworthy."03:05
TwoTallme too03:05
FleaFartha ha, you are me03:05
furrywolfand a censer is an incense burner.  and a sensor is what your car always needs.  and isn't english fun?  :)03:17
systemdlete2the overall thrust of the email at the link suggests that the author believes in condemnation (censure) not censorship which is my own position03:20
systemdlete2and, yes, English is fun, but only when the word fun is in quotes03:21
* furrywolf didn't see any links or emails, just a discussion on homophones03:21
systemdlete2there was not any such discussion here that I could see.03:22
systemdlete2Maybe you have better eyes?03:22
furrywolfcensure and censor are homophones.  words that have the same sound.03:22
systemdlete2nope.   censure is pronounced with "sh"03:23
systemdlete2like sen-shur03:23
onefangMaybe the discussion is on #debianfork, or maybe it should be?  B-)03:23
systemdlete2ah, that is it!03:23
systemdlete2(why I missed it)03:23
furrywolfhrmm.  is it a regional thing, and me and everyone I know has always mispronounced it?  quite possible.  well, fugeddaboutit y'all.  :P03:24
golinuxPlease take it to #debianfork03:28
Lippsare any of you chatting in #debianfork?06:10
furrywolfwe've been talking about politics, genetically modified food, furry conventions, wifi hotspots,...06:12
golinuxIt's been a huge waste of bandwidth06:29
CrystalMathgolinux: freenode's bandwidth06:30
golinuxThank all of you for doing it there and not here.  Waste of energy06:30
DonkeyHoteiirc? bandwidth? really?06:31
Lippsi was just surprised that nobody was chatting about linux/foss things06:33
golinuxPlease take it back to #debianfork06:34
systemdlete3there is a touchpad-indicator package for mate in ubuntu.  Is that also avail for devuan?  backports?07:11
systemdlete3I'd like to disable touchpad while typing -- I keep hitting the touchpad by accident while tryig to type07:11
systemdlete3and then switch it back on when desired.  No hw switch on this T101A07:12
rrqsyndaemon ?07:13
systemdlete3mate tweak has a checkbox for enabling the touchpad indicator, but the checkbox itself is disabled07:14
rrqyou need the gui or the function?07:14
systemdlete3not sure, actually.  I think the indicator shows up on the panel, and it can be clicked/touched07:15
systemdlete3the only indicator checkbox in tweak that is possible is the keyboard LED07:18
systemdlete3rrq:  This is what the tweak program looks like:
rrqI'm not a gui person07:27
systemdlete3thank you, rrq.  syndaemon did the trick; added it to my startup07:38
buZzman, all my devuan menus changed to red14:30
buZzso ugly ;P14:30
dejdoHi! What would be the most comfortable way to acquire an 5.4 linux kernel package for a debian ceres machine? I'm comfortable with kernel compiling i'm not sure how to make it a .deb package.16:47
dejdoor if I compile it just like that how to make it part of the initramfs.16:47
r3bootdejdo: download the source package, change version numbers, rebuild, dpkg -i it16:50
fsmithredI've used this guide for compiling kernels:
fsmithred..the debian way16:55
golinuxbuZz: You don't like cinnabar?
golinuxSorry about that.  That's the first really negative feedback that I've gotten.17:13
buZzi dont like red in general, nor forced style changes17:13
golinuxYou can go back to darkpurpy17:13
buZzi'll just figure out how to move to package defaults i guess17:14
buZzprobably those dont change often17:14
golinuxI don't like red either.  Have avoided it my entire life but I LOVE this theme.  Go figure17:14
golinuxCinnabar is the default beowulf desktop17:14
golinuxCan we still be friends?17:15
golinuxEvery new release will have a different color palette17:15
dejdor3boot: is there a source package for 5.3/5.4?18:40
fsmithreddejdo, you should be able to get a source package for 5.3 from debian experimental repo19:00
Lippsgolinux: i've studied media informatics and do a fair amount of low-color art and i approve of 'cinnabar'19:06
Lippsthe colors remind of the 'Pyra' which will have a Devuan distro if i decide to get one19:07
golinuxLipps: :)19:23
Lippsi think you can get devuan on the motorola droid 4 too19:33
dejdofsmithred: thanks20:07
saptechhi all20:43
saptechI'm trying to install some themes and it seems I need this, "gtk3-engines-unico"20:43
saptechwhen I try to install it, I get this error msg, "No candidate version found for gtk3-engines-unico". I assume it's not in the repos20:44
saptechany idea how I can get it installed?20:45
debdogseems that's in sid only.
debdogyou might just download and "dpkg -i" it20:55
golinux is an easier way to search20:57
debdognot here, it does not find that package at all.21:01
saptechthanks guys21:04
gnarfacei would really advise against mixing unstable gtk3 theme engines with the stable distro21:07
gnarfacefrankly i would suggest treating all the extraneous gtk engines with the highest degree of mistrust21:08
gnarfacebut i gained that view from using them, so i'm not one to judge...21:08
gnarfacebut some of them really aren't well done21:10
gnarfacesome of them have lots of memory leaks21:10
saptechI'm not going to try it21:10
saptechlooks like it's made more for ubuntu21:10
gnarfacethere are a bunch in there, you can search like this:  apt-cache search ^gtk.*eng21:11
gnarface(apt-cache takes regexp syntax similar to grep)21:12
saptechok, thanks21:13
saptechI was trying to get "trisquel-gtk-theme21:15
saptechbut it needs gtk3-engines-unico21:15
saptechbut I can do without it21:16
gnarfacei don't see that package either21:17
saptechit's in the repos21:17
gnarfacehmmm. in non-free or contrib maybe?  i'm not seeing it here...21:18
saptechtrisquel-gtk-theme : Depends: gtk3-engines-unico21:18
gnarfaceor do you mean the ubuntu repos?21:18
gnarfaceyou might be better off building both packages21:19
gnarfaceto avoid ABI conflicts21:19
saptechI'm using ascii main, ascii-updates main, ascii-security main21:23
saptechaptitude search trisquel-gtk-theme  BB  trisquel-gtk-theme   - Trisquel gtk theme21:25
gnarfacehmm.... something seems wrong21:27
gnarfacesaptech: can you paste your /etc/apt/sources.list to me privately or to  i want to sanity check it for you21:27
gnarfacedon't paste it in-channel, you might get spam-kicked21:28
saptechI just noticed my source repos are commented out21:30
gnarfacesaptech: could you use please?21:30
gnarfaceit doesn't have ads21:30
saptechthis doesn't either21:30
gnarfaceif you already see your own mistake that's fine too21:30
saptechat least I dont see any21:30
gnarfaceor actually, know what?  here i'll just paste this one:
gnarfaceshould be working unless there is something weird with pkgmaster right now21:32
gnarfacemine is the same but points to the dns mirror round-robin21:32
saptechwhat does that mean?21:33
gnarfacedo you know what DNS is?21:33
gnarfacea "DNS round-robin" is a DNS entry that points to multiple IP addresses at once.  DNS clients will only return you one of them at a time though, so this is commonly used as a way to load-balance incoming connections amongst multiple servers. make sense?21:34
gnarfacethere are about a dozen servers in the round-robin list right now21:35
gnarfacei'm not seeing this trisquel-gtk-theme package anywhere though, so that is still a mystery21:35
saptechI found it yesterday21:36
gnarfacenot in ascii, not in ceres, not in backports...21:36
gnarfacedid you accidentally get it from ubuntu somehow perhaps?21:36
saptechthat is strange21:36
gnarfacethat's why i asked about your sources.list, i was expecting to see some foreign repos in there.21:37
gnarfacebut as it stands, this is still unexplained21:37
gnarfacethe missing dependency is completely expected in this situation though.21:37
gnarfacethat part is no longer a mystery21:37
saptechnow just did an update and getting this message21:38
saptechwell, updates work but I get msg when upgrade21:40
gnarfaceyou even stumped aptitude?  interesting21:41
gnarfacesomething has gone really wrong here21:41
saptechyes but everything worked yesterday21:41
saptechno changes to sources.list21:41
gnarfaceit looks strongly like a distro-mixing issue.  can you think of any packages you might have installed from elsewhere?21:41
saptechI thought maybe something going on with servers21:41
gnarfacethat is a possibility, though usually ghost packages don't appear out of nowhere for only one person during server issues.  usually server issues take the form of "package versions out of sync" or "package version not current"21:42
gnarfacehere, you have a package i can't find21:42
gnarfaceit looks familiar21:42
gnarfacebut like something i haven't seen since the 90's21:43
gnarfacethere must be some explanation for how it even got in your package cache21:43
saptechI installed trisquel-gtk-theme last night and then that's when the dependency for the ico theme21:43
gnarfaceyou don't have any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ do you?21:43
gnarfacebut where did you get the trisquel-gtk-theme package itself?21:43
saptechlet me check. I do use other distros so I'm not running Devuan daily21:44
saptechthis is listed in sources.list.d21:44
saptechJun  5  2018 devuan.list21:45
gnarfacejust that one file?21:45
gnarfacewhat are the contents?21:45
gnarfacehmm. not sure why that's there but it should be harmless in this case21:47
Jjp137it's created via here (assuming ascii but other versions may apply):'s kinda useless tho so whatever21:47
gnarfacesaptech: i dunno man, but you've got a real puzzle on your hands.  my best advice at this point is to try hard to retrace your steps and figure out where that package came from21:47
gnarfacebecause that's where it's dependencies probably are21:48
saptechmy sources.list file is dated Jun 521:48
gnarfaceif you can come up with that, then maybe you can rebuild the package safely to not unravel your whole installation21:48
gnarfacewell that might be just a mundane clock sync issue.21:49
gnarfaceyou said you use multiple distros on this machine right?  if you're also dual-booting with windows, clock sync issues are expected under the default configuration21:49
saptechthat may be the time I installed devuan21:49
gnarfaceif it's a new enough version of windows though, you can make it store time in UTC (the default for devuan and debian)21:50
gnarfacethen there won't be clock sync issues between reboots21:50
saptechat one time I had windows but not anymore21:50
gnarfacelinux distros could have different settings on this21:50
gnarfaceit's probably not a related issue though21:51
saptechwhen I ran windows, my hdd got completely wiped, so after reinstalling distros, no windows  :)21:51
gnarfaceheh, ok21:51
gnarfacejust making sure you're aware of the common pitfalls21:51
saptechi'm retired and don't need it for work related21:51
saptechyes I ran into that time sync issues before21:52
saptechas far as I remember, I haven't made any changes to sources.list, I haven't added & removed any other distros repo to devuan, only small programs I may install from source21:53
gnarfaceand you're sure this theme package isn't one of the things you built from source?21:54
saptechcorrect. I was reading about trisquel themes yesterday and checked to see if it was in repo and it was21:55
saptechbut the other one was missing21:55
gnarfacewell things showing up and then disappearing in sid, or showing up without their dependencies ready yet, that's common.  but not for ascii...21:55
saptechif I change my repo to look like yours, will it make a difference?21:55
gnarfaceprobably not, but if you're right that there's a problem with pkgmaster right now, quite possibly21:56
gnarfaceit's worth a try but don't expect much21:56
saptechgnarface, my bad...silly me21:59
saptechI did download the .deb file for it21:59
gnarfaceah ha!22:00
gnarfaceso it is probably really massively out of date on dependencies22:00
saptechso sorry22:00
gnarfaceno problem.  that makes the rest of this make 100% logical sense now22:01
saptechwhen I ran, 'apt-cache search ^gtk.*eng', it's not showing up22:01
gnarfaceyea, so it's a probably defuct gtk theme depending on a probably defunct gtk engine22:01
gnarfaceat least, neither is in debian22:02
saptechthanks for putting up with me22:02
gnarfaceno worries22:02
gnarfaceall hope is not lost, you will probably have to find source for that theme AND the gtk engine to build new packages from them though.  some fixing of the packages may be required22:02
saptechI may look into it...not high on the list  :)22:03
gnarfacemaybe they've been renamed to something else since then that IS in the debian repos22:03
saptechI'm retired, have to relax now days...lol22:03
gnarfaceanyway your best bet is to stick with packages already in the repo to avoid complications like this22:03
gnarfacethe stuff in the repo has all been fairly well tested to work together22:04
saptechmy memory not what it used to be, it one reason I retired from IT field22:04
saptechbut I worked mostly with mainframe support, 30 yrs22:05
Lippssaptech: z-series?22:06
saptechit was coming in as I was fading out22:06
Lippsthere's an emulator for those called 'hercules' :)22:06
Lippsremember PLATO?22:07
saptechno, do not remember22:07
saptechwhen I started around 1990, large bank ran IBM 309022:08
saptechbut when I worked for insurance company they had some Zs22:09
saptechwhich was 201122:09
saptechby then I was burnt out22:09
gnarfaceinterestingly enough, it's complications just like this one that i attribute to enhancing my attention to detail22:10
gnarfacemaybe it will work for you too22:10
gnarfacei've long suspected that commercial software was dumbing us all down, even the admins22:11
saptechthey did use some emulations with PCs22:11
saptechbut I'll be 67 in Feb. and before I got into computers, I lived a hard life, sort to say, and old hippie  :)22:12
saptechI've been using Linux since around 2004 or so22:13
saptechbut was lazy and didnt look into coding type stuff22:13
LippsCIO for one company i worked-for was a concert cellist who ran a hippie commune in colorado22:13
Lippsin his spare time he would do some of our pleb work to show us how fast it could be done22:14
Lippsbut offtopic chat to #debianfork22:15
Lippsi am trying to make it better22:15
saptechgnarface, did you look at the bpaste site? it have less info then the debian paste bin22:18
gnarfacesaptech: nah i didn't look at it, sorry.  getting really paranoid about all these new pastebins popping up and i'm about to attempt to fix the issue by making it worse22:19
saptechunderstandable, I feel the same way22:20
gnarfacei just recommend because we're already screwed if we can't trust their servers and there's no ads on it, so it minimizes additional attack surfaces22:21
gnarfacebut the irony is not lost on me that the only real way to address this constructively is to make my own and throw it into the mix22:25
gnarfacethus, objectively worsening the situation22:26
saptechgnarface, you're going to create your own paste bin?22:32
gnarfacewell the thought was to make one then donate it to devuan, but they don't want a pastebin made out of php :-p22:38
gnarfacealso i'm no designer, so it would be really ugly22:38
gnarfacei proposed that i simply clone the debian one but that was met with vehement opposition22:39
gnarfaceyea, but i didn't really try to force it through official channels.  i just asked around a bit22:40
Lippsi know someone from the FOSS community who is funding his own pastebin @ 60€/week22:40
gnarfaceto make it or to host it?22:40
Lippshe developed it, put the stuff on github, and hosts it22:40
gnarfaceseems expensive?22:41
Lippsit's getting used22:41
gnarfacei guess that's what counts22:41
Lippsif i did one, the rule would be only FOSS software support media, text, pics and images22:42
Lippsi'd use his git though, good work22:42
Lippsthere's also transfer.sh22:43
gnarfacethat one i have heard of22:44
Lippsusually i just curl -F'file=@'$1 http://0x0.st22:45

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