libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-12-12

systemdleteany way to get the devuan installer to switch the screen orientation on my laptop?01:17
systemdleteThe 2.1 installer is having some problems it seems.  I had to take the USB hub out of line because it was getting stuck somewhere in the boot up.01:18
systemdleteSo now the USB stick is in the one (1) "ONE" USB slot on this $400 piece of garbage.01:18
systemdleteI chose the graphical expert install and it boots up to where it should be changing to the graphical interface (I think) and it just hangs there with a blank screen and a tiny cursor in the right bottom corner.01:20
masonsystemdlete: The text install is quite good, if that helps you get through it. The graphical install is essentially a GUI presenting precisely the same stuff the text mode presents.01:30
systemdleteSame problem:  You see, grub doesn't know how to switch the orientation.01:31
masonAs for changing it, I don't know if xrandr or similar is in the install environment. The GUI install is running X, but not a full environment.01:31
systemdleteI think there is a feature in later versions of grub, but I'm pretty sure this one doesn't have it.01:31
systemdletexrandr is a X11 thingy01:31
masonAs for changing it, I don't know if xrandr or similar is in the install environment. The GUI install is running X, but not a full environment.01:32
systemdleteike I said, xrandr doesn't help at grub boot time.01:32
systemdleteiow, this is before the graphical stage begins01:33
masonAh, you said you'd gotten through grub. If you chose the expert install, that's about as far as grub gets.01:33
systemdleteIt's awkward working with the tablet this way, that's all.01:33
systemdletebut that's not the worst part.  It's the hang01:34
systemdlete(I always knew there was a reason I prefer to run somewhat older hardware)01:34
masonI'm thinking you might find or shim in VESA mode or something, although it'd be very odd for the text mode to simply fail.01:35
systemdleteah, now I am getting a complete crash.  Nice.01:36
masonAnyway, if you really need to rotate in the context of GRUB, there's this:
systemdletex86_configure_nx gives a stack trace01:37
masonI'd also maybe search for folks installing on your specific hardware.01:37
masonThat sounds like there's some hardware breakage... I'll check back in later.01:38
systemdleteIt seems that *sometimes* I get to the graphical installer UI, other times not.  I have no idea what/why this happens.01:45
systemdletethe efifb trick does work, but the orientation is lost by the time the X server starts.  Also, I cannot seem to get to a console.01:46
systemdleteI do get a screen full of X11 log info, but not a command prompt.01:46
systemdleteThis time, I get to a message in the bootup telling me i2c_designware got a timeout while trying to disable the adapter01:47
masonsystemdlete: That does sound like bad hardware. That said, how about using the framebuffer rotation with the text installer?01:52
systemdletemason: I'm wondering if I re-install windows, just to see if the thing works as designed (meaning, for WindowsTM)01:53
systemdletebtw, this time I DID get a command prompt, but could not get back to the GUI01:53
masonsystemdlete: You could try Windows, but you might also try Debian or Ubuntu or something closer to the target.01:54
masonBut if I were you I'd ditch the GUI for the install.01:54
systemdleteThat sounds sad.01:54
masonIt'll probably be largely devoid of emotion. Think of the installers as being like Spock.01:55
systemdleteI need to talk to my administrator to get the windows installer.01:57
systemdleteBut the problem is, I AM the administrator.01:57
systemdleteThere is no one else here.01:57
systemdleteI live alone.  With my $400 piece of hardware01:58
systemdleteI could use Mr. Spock right now.01:58
masonDid you try the text mode installer with framebuffer rotation? Using that doesn't mean you need to have a final system that is text-only.01:59
systemdleteI know.  I don't care that much about rotation.02:00
systemdleteJust inconvenient.  ANd kind of hard on my neck02:00
systemdletewhat's the trick for when it tries to detect the cdrom?02:01
systemdleteI forgot.02:01
masonI'm not sure what you're referring to... It's been a while since I've needed to think about booting from a CD.02:01
systemdleteactually, I think I found it02:03
systemdleteI'm not -- it's a USB.  Debian is looking for a USB02:03
systemdletethe installer I mean02:03
masonIs it asking for additional drivers? Ideally you can just skip that if so, and address it later.02:03
systemdleteno, it is looking for the device with the install image I think02:04
systemdleteI haven't installed from a CD in years, either, mason.  But Debian seems to be kind of traditional about this02:05
masonThat sounds like your BIOS looking, not the installer, unless I'm confused or you just got a netboot image.02:05
systemdleteThere is no BIOS on this laptop, it's EFI only02:06
systemdletemason:  One step in the install is where it looks for a CDROM drive. That's the step I was at.02:07
masonThe funny bit of course is that when I say "BIOS" you can assume I mean "that software built into your system that offers your preboot environment".02:07
systemdleteI just regbooted, and this time it is stuck right after it successfully finds the USB device.02:07
masonsystemdlete: You're not quite at this point, but a nifty trick you can do nowadays is to skip the bootloader entirely, if you're using a UEFI box.02:10
tom_workmason, BASIC INPUT OUTPUT SYSTEM02:10
masontom_work: BUT IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN BASIC02:10
systemdleteGO TO LINE 2002:10
tom_workmason, Is there a more accurate name for just the part the inits hardware enough enough to load a bootloader?02:11
systemdletetom_work: I believe it is generically called firmware02:11
tom_workmason, It doesn't mean the language basic but that the IOS is as simple as possible02:11
tom_workthen what is seabios, uefi, iboot, peditboot called?02:12
masontom_work: Ah, you'd capitalized all of it, so I assume it was all a mass of acronym.02:12
tom_workthe pre-boot-boot-loader?02:12
systemdletetom_work: "firmware"02:12
systemdletefirmware = { EFI, BIOS }02:12
tom_workat least in coreboot the cpu,memory, and scisi bus init sections of coreboot are just called sysinit02:12
masonBut not all firmware bootstraps the computer. (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻02:12
systemdletetrue that.02:13
systemdletee.g., broken firmware02:13
tom_workmason, no, EFI and BIOS only run as a payload AFTER the hardware has been bootstrapped02:13
tom_workwhy not this: Hardware BootStrap and OS bootstrap02:13
tom_workOS bootstrap is sysv/openrc02:14
tom_workmason, UEFI is convenient in the fact all it is looking for as some files on a vfat filesystem, rather than a specific string of bytes in a very specific location on disk02:35
masontom_work: Yeah. I'm generally in favour of it.02:35
tom_workbut sometimes that can be rather limiting. your forced to put that vfat filesystem somewhere02:35
tom_workthat ties you in to a particular partition table as well02:38
masontom_work: But, you can do stuff like RAID it up. And that makes it not terrible.02:38
tom_workthere are hardware workarounds I've seen in the enterprise02:38
masonSure. PXE boot or similar.02:38
tom_worklike Dell EMC offers a small contained device that puts 2 SD cards in RAID102:39
tom_workpresents it to the system bus as a generic SCSI device02:39
tom_workor you can have a USB stick hanging out the back of your machine02:39
masonMm. I like to avoid hardware RAID where possible. You can do the same thing with software RAID, although then you have to tell the system about two devices as possible sources of bootcode.02:39
masonI've never liked the USB stick solution.02:39
masonNetbooting is probably the cleanest option if you don't want your ESP on disk.02:40
tom_workmason, software raid too as multi block device aware filesystems come into more use02:40
tom_workand partition tables at all become not needed02:40
masonWell. In this case, you stuff the vfat onto MD-RAID1 with older metadata that lives at the end, and the system is very happy to see two vfat filesystems without knowing about the RAID relationship.02:41
masonBut it feels clunky.02:41
tom_workI've found it a lot simpler just a reserve a few bytes at the beginning of your disks and write bytecode to them which usually contains a bootloader like grub that can be re-programmed to read any filesystem or partition table, or even netboot02:41
tom_workit does02:41
tom_workthe cleanest solution I've found is to just put grub2 inside the system rom, but not all computers are compatible with coreboot02:42
tom_workbut hey, with that setup you can do full disk encryption without headers02:42
masonI didn't know coreboot did that. That's kind of nifty.02:42
tom_workalso PGP-signed kernels, modules, and initramfs02:43
masonThat also sounds nifty. This makes me want to play with coreboot now.02:44
tom_workmason, yes when building a fb firmware image replace the primary payload which is normally seabios or tianocore with just simply grub203:00
tom_workmason, you were probably going to use seabios or tiano to load grub2 anyways so why not skip the middleman and load grub2 directly03:00
tom_workyou can actually load a linux kernel directly, but you probably don't want to do that since those get updated a lot03:01
masontom_work: That's a step beyond using the EFI stub loader.03:04
HurgotronAfter the last update, Tunderbird tells me it's now a nightly build and doesn't really work anymore. I'm a tad confused - what happened here?10:43
gnarfacei can think of a few possibilities10:47
gnarfaceyou sure it started as the thunderbird from the repo?10:47
gnarfacei think the one from their website updates itself by default....10:47
gnarfacea recent firefox in ceres might have started doing that too10:48
gnarfaceare you on ceres? or have you mixed in other repos perhaps?  backports maybe?10:48
Hurgotronthis machine has alwas been Devuan, well the TB started as an Ubuntu one (just the prfile)10:48
gnarfacewhich version?10:48
HurgotronI'm not used to breaking updates from Debina / Devuan.10:48
gnarfaceif it's ceres i'd say operating as expected10:48
gnarfaceif it's ascii or beowulf you should probably report it as a bug10:49
gnarfacehmm.... disturbing10:49
gnarfaceit shouldn't be changing that much10:49
gnarfacebut i'd expect a lot of people to have noticed too10:49
Hurgotronseems to have jumped from 60 to 6810:49
gnarfacecan you think of anything else weird that might have happened to your install where something out of the repo ended up there?  maybe a plugin10:49
Hurgotronand I have no time to debug it :P10:50
Hurgotronjust an old calendar plugin I think10:50
gnarfacei am seeing that thunderbird in ascii-security is 68.2.210:51
gnarfacea big jump from 60.8.010:51
gnarfaceso that could have just changed as part of a security patch10:51
gnarfaceseems sloppy for them not to backport it but maybe there is a reason it couldn't be backported10:52
gnarfaceit shouldn't be broken10:52
Hurgotronfuck security, I have work to do10:52
gnarfacecan you elaborate on what exactly is broken?10:52
Hurgotronstyle sheets it seems. huge areas are blank with htl like tags in them10:52
gnarface"fuck security, I have work to do" < pretty sure this was heard on the last operating day at Chernobyl10:53
gnarfaceyou sure it isn't just hiding remote data by default?10:53
Hurgotronwell I can just wait until my emplower forces me to install Windows and use outlook, it's be MCUH better I guess10:54
gnarfaceon one of those emails that's not loading, look for a "preferences" button in the top right of the email view window, inside a yellow/beige bar that's not there on plain-text emails10:54
HurgotronI don't have the full lower "view email" pane10:55
gnarfaceso you don't see a beige toolbar that only appears on the emails that are missing content that says something like "To protect your privacy, Thunderbird has blocked remote content in this message."10:55
gnarfaceyou don't see that anywhere in the email view?10:55
gnarfaceif you find it you can click on it, and the first item in the subsequent pulldown should be "Show remote content in this message."10:56
gnarfacemaybe you had this feature off by default and the upgrade simply re-enabled it10:56
HurgotronI'll look into it when i have time, next year I guess10:58
Hurgotronuntil then I'm back to the old tb10:58
HurgotronI thought it might have been a known bug,10:58
Hurgotronsorry for your time10:58
gnarfacei honestly wouldn't know if it's a known bug or not10:59
gnarfaceif you ask again in about 6 hours there may be more people around10:59
gnarfaceeither way it deserves reporting if it's not just the security defaults11:00
gnarfaceyou might just be the first person to notice11:00
AliceQuuxIn search of system beeps for my ThinkPad running ascii...16:35
AliceQuuxThe details of ALSA are beyond me, so pointers are welcome.  I've made sure to specify 'audible' beeps in /etc/inputrc, I've tried unloading and reloading the pcspkr module, and I've made sure I'm not trying to do any of this with beeps muted or at 0 volume in alsamixer16:37
AliceQuuxBefore I reboot, I did manage to get beeps working briefly, perhaps with certain tweaks to parameters for the snd_hda_intel module, but those were lost on reboot of brain and computer.  snd_hda_intel beep_mode=1 enable=1 index=0 power_save=0 and ... beep_mode=0 ... don't make a difference that I can detect.16:39
AliceQuuxThe details at should pretty much match current reality.16:40
AliceQuuxPointers much appreciated!16:41
gnarfacepulseaudio could be getting in the way maybe?16:46
gnarfaceother thoughts... maybe the module isn't loaded, maybe you need audio permission, maybe your WM is shutting it off as a courtesy?16:47
AliceQuux'ps -aef |grep pulse' doesn't show anything16:47
AliceQuux.mp3 files etc. play OK (via ALSA).  Even root's ping -a commands from console are soundless (and my users are in the audio group), and I did briefly have those beeps working in this window manager (sawfish) on a previous boot16:49
errandir1looks like your first soundcard @ PCI 00:03.0 is not recognised by alsa. By default alsa will use the 1st device.16:49
AliceQuuxWhich module may not be loaded?16:49
errandir1which soundcard do you want to use?16:51
AliceQuuxProbably makes sense to use whichever one is producing the mp4 sound etc. happily, yes?  Unless using different ones would let me hear beeps and mp3 audio etc. simultaneously.16:52
AliceQuuxIt really doesn't matter as long as everything is audible. :)16:52
AliceQuuxWould the problem be with something in asound.conf ?  I tried it with both 'card 1' and 'card 0' for the pcm default and ctl default entry.16:53
AliceQuuxAny way to try to force alsa to recognise the other sound card?  Without using deep voodoo.16:54
gnarfaceAliceQuux: try in your ~/.asoundrc specifying "defaults.pcm.!card" "defaults.ctl.!card" and "defaults.pcm.!device"16:57
gnarfaceAliceQuux: (or in your asound.conf would work too, in theory)16:57
AliceQuuxSo replace the 'pcm.!default {' line with 'defaults.pcm.!device {' and the equivalent for ctl?, with 'type hw' and 'card 1' lines after each?16:58
gnarfaceuh, i didn't look at your existing config, but what i meant was to try a simple 3-line config with just each of those parameters defined with single word or number values16:59
gnarfacethe first two would be the same value16:59
gnarfacefor example Intel16:59
gnarfacethe third one would be a number like 316:59
gnarfacei think the first two could be numbers as well but the words may be easier to remember17:00
AliceQuuxSo /etc/asound.conf would consist of just three lines apart from the '}' line?  And the words are just for reference and not used anywhere else?17:01
gnarfacejust like this, but you know with the right values:
EHeMAppears yet another security update is problematic, this time `git` is missing the update for the main package (but the man pages updated just fine).17:01
gnarfaceget the values from "aplay -L" and "aplay -l" .... note that case matters17:01
AliceQuuxThat answers my next question, of where 'the right values' come from. :)17:02
gnarfacethe module i was thinking of earlier by the way was pcspkr17:05
gnarfacedunno if it's relevant though17:05
gnarfaceif the card order is the real issue it may not even matter17:06
AliceQuuxSo if aplay -l spits out 'card 0: HDMI [HDA Intel HDMI], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]' ... 'card 1: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 0: ALC3232 Analog [ALC3232 Analog]', I would use 'defaults.pcm.!card Intel' and 'Intel' in both other places?17:06
AliceQuux(I did plenty of unloading and loading pcspkr after various snd_hda_intel values - plenty sure it's loaded. :) )17:07
gnarfacewell there are a lot of possible formats for the values you can provide, i think actually17:07
gnarfaceand i don't know them all17:07
gnarfacein this case your card name, oddly enough is actually "HDMI"17:07
gnarfacedevice is still 3 though17:08
gnarfaceassuming you mean to use the HDMI...17:08
gnarfacethe other card is called "PCH" (the analog one)17:08
AliceQuuxAs long as HDMI works.  I can stuff that in both places, leave the '3' alone, and try again with 'PCH' if that doesn't work.17:08
gnarfaceHDMI has a distinct connector, i would think you should know if it is what you're using or not17:09
AliceQuuxWhat do I need to unload and load / restart in order for /etc/asound.conf to get read again?  I'd prefer not rebooting if I don't have to.17:09
gnarfacejust the programs that were using sound17:09
gnarfacethere is no userspace daemon for alsa itself17:09
gnarfacenote that your window manager can count as a program that is using sound17:09
AliceQuuxGood to know17:10
gnarfaceand alsamixer will have different controls for different cards17:11
gnarfaceyou can pass a number to alsamixer with -c to select specific cards' controls17:12
gnarfacethough HDMI probably just has on and off17:12
gnarfaceremember card index numbers start at 0 when passing them to alsamixer too17:12
gnarfaceit won't show you multiple cards at once17:13
gnarfaceand another thing, above, for card "PCH" that is device 0 showing there17:14
gnarfaceremember to change that value too when testing17:14
AliceQuuxRestarting my window manager and running ping -a as root from consoles with either configuration of asound.conf yields no joy.  I changed the device '3' to a '0' (on line 3) for PCH also.  Same result.17:21
AliceQuuxDo you reckon I should now try specific snd_hda_intel parameters with each of those set-ups?  SUch as beep mode 0 and 1 in case pass-through stuff is involved?17:24
AliceQuuxI should mention that I checked that system beeps aren't turned off in BIOS.17:24
gnarfacecould they be turned off in the terminal emulator you're using?17:30
gnarfacethat's where i disable mine, in the urxvt shortcut...17:30
gnarfacesome stuff would still beep17:30
AliceQuuxI currently have params of PCH, PCH, and 0, which work with mplayer, mpg123, etc.  But no system beeps.17:30
gnarfacehuh, odd17:31
AliceQuuxI used 'xset b on' etc.  What would cause beeps to be muted in xterms and on consoles?17:32
buZzAliceQuux: does your PC even have a beeper?17:36
gnarfaceAliceQuux: well urxvt for example has "-vb" which is for "visual bell" which makes the terminal blink instead of play a sound when there is a "beep" signal17:37
AliceQuuxSince it's a ThinkPad, there's almost certainly no PC speaker as such.  But I did have beeps working briefly, somehow.17:37
buZzoh ok, my thinkpad has a beeper17:37
AliceQuuxIt very well might have one.  x250 or 260.17:38
AliceQuuxI don't see any terminal blink when I try to beep (tab-complete, new mail in mutt, ping -a, echoing bell charactger, etc.) (I'm familiar with what it looks like from screen's visual bell etc.)17:39
gnarfaceAliceQuux: is it mentioned in dmesg anywhere?17:39
AliceQuuxFrom my last four unload/load cycles, dmesg has entries of the form   [86052.889603] input: PC Speaker as /devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input25  through 28.17:44
AliceQuuxOr should I be grepping dmesg for something else?17:44
gnarfacedunno for sure really17:44
gnarfacealso not sure why it would be an input instead of an output... that seems weird17:45
gnarfacei guess it says input here too though17:45
AliceQuuxDunno at a glance whether this is from before or after I made which changes, but dmesg does have a '[   27.143453] input: HDA Digital PCBeep as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sou' in there17:46
AliceQuuxAgain, 'input'.  Hrm.17:46
gnarfacethat's probably normal17:47
gnarfacesince it looks the same here17:47
AliceQuuxWell, that's something anyway.  Wouldn't want things going out through the 'in' hole.17:49
AliceQuuxFiguring this out would be easier if fewer of my Web search results were along the lines of 'How do I turn off those annoying beeps?'18:01
huh53why does Devuan use wicd for networking, I think Network Manager is better, it allows you to share your ethernet with other computers and the option is simply not there in wicd18:07
omniohuh53: you can install network-manager if you need it18:13
huh53I'll try to do that18:19
nemoSo.  I'm trying to use the devuan iso as a recovery tool18:22
nemoon a machine that seems a bit messed up18:22
nemoscreen goes blank once I get past the devuan live CD boot choices if I use standard boot.  hangs completely in boot for failsafe18:22
nemobut... I do seem to have ssh up and running18:23
nemowhat's the username and password?18:23
huh53it's not root and toor?18:23
debdogno password18:24
nemodebdog: hm. pretty sure ssh will not allow that18:25
nemoI will try typing blind into a prompt and hope that I can get to "passwd" :(18:25
nemojust booted the iso in virtualbox. it seems the username is "devuan" fwiw18:25
debdogdevuan live iso?18:26
debdogor devuan installer iso?18:26
nemoand... having a password would sure be helpful for situations like this18:26
nemohm. there must be a password18:26
nemoif I type "passwd" in virtualbox it prompts for it18:26
nemojust don't know what it is18:26
huh53I just used apt-get to install OBS. It installed the very oldest version - 0.0.1, yet OBS is up to version 24. I tried using the directions on the OBS site to build for Debian... should this work? Spoiler: it didn't work18:27
* debdog never would use that for recovery tasks. there are better options. like systemrexcuecd18:27
nemoall I needed was to mount the hardrive to fix a bad file18:27
AliceQuuxI'll check back later to see whether any clever soul has had a brainwave re. my non-beeps.18:35
huh53still trying to build OBS using instructions from the site18:39
huh53CMake 3.10 or higher is required.  You are running version 3.7.218:39
huh53devuan@devuan:/obs-studio/build$ sudo apt install cmakeReading package lists... DoneBuilding dependency tree       Reading state information... Donecmake is already the newest version (3.7.2-1).18:39
huh53It says my Cmake is outdated for building OBS18:40
huh53but then when I try apt install cmake, it says I am on the latest version18:40
huh53catcher 22 in the Rye situation18:42
huh53I'm about to break this goddamn thing again I bet18:51
debdoghuh53: you either need cmake from Beowulf (3.13.4)  or compile it yourself (into /usr/local) - no clue which option is the safest one18:56
nemogolinux: hm. still not letting me in.18:58
nemomaybe I just have my machines mixed up, and I did not, in fact, successfully get ssh installed... :)18:59
nemo*sigh* yep. that was it. crud18:59
huh53I have to install the buggy version of Devuan to get an up to date Cmake?  I don't like beta stuff, Devuan is enough of a headache already19:03
nemothat sounds like typical situation in debian.  getting latest version of anything usually means using "unstable"19:04
debdoghuh53: devuan Beowulf is only buggy regarding its own packages. cmake would come directly from debian stable and is as buggy as debian stable is.19:05
golinuxhuh53: Have you checked ascii backports?19:06
debdogyo, looking at buster's cmake dependencies, installing it from Beowulf is not an option. so, you'll need to compile it yourself (not sure about the deps then. backport might even be worse)19:09
huh53Hmmm ... I'll try that, I don't have confidence in compiling stuff   backports provide newer versions of packages already in the testing suite, but linked to stable dependencies. This is useful if you prefer using newer software versions over well-tested stable versions. It is advised to disable backports and only enable to install specific19:19
huh53packages.# /etc/apt/sources.listdeb <release codename>-backports maindeb-src <release codename>-backports main19:19
huh53I downloaded the cmake using their script, I guess I have to compile it, how do I do that?19:22
golinuxhuh53: You cannot think of "testing" and "stable" in devuan because we are not always in sync with debian.19:23
golinuxbeowulf is devuan testing but pulls from Buster, Debian stable19:24
huh53Why is there such an old version of cmake though?  3.7...when cmake is on 3.15.5 now?  Does Devuan team have to remake cmake so it doesn't use systemd?19:27
huh53OK I'm not going to try to compile19:32
huh53enabled the backports on sources.list but no difference... do I need to reboot?19:33
nemohuh53: apt-get -t ascii-backports install cmake  -  you doing that?19:34
nemoGet:1 ascii-backports/main amd64 cmake amd64 3.13.2-1~bpo9+1 [3,423 kB]19:35
nemo3.13 is not too bad19:35
huh53thanks nemo, that worked!19:38
huh53I enabled it in sources.list and updated and thought that would do it.  You are a wizard.19:39
nemoI agree backports in debian is a bit unintuitive19:39
buZzgee, nginx offices just got raided over copyright claims19:45
nemorussian company claiming he wrote the stuff as an employee19:45
huh53Green hat gophers19:46
buZznemo: which he confirms, but in his spare time19:46
huh53Developers listen up19:46
buZzalso its kinda weird cause he wasnt a developer at that company19:47
huh53There is no distro that offers OBS by default, and a lot of streamers that use this software19:47
nemobuZz: did he sign one of those "we get everything you wrote" contracts?19:47
buZzthe rumor mill is slow and half russian :P19:47
furrywolfheh, we've been talking about that in ##furry for a bit.  news article here:   also see and
buZztnx fw19:47
huh53The first distro that offers OBS is going to take off big time, by word of mouth by the non technical streamers telling their viewers about the linux distro they use19:48
buZznemo: i usually make em remove such statements from contracts i sign19:48
buZzhuh53: obs is in devuan and debian already?19:48
huh53no, I'm trying to install the latest version19:48
huh53it's not working19:48
buZzhuh53: debian/devuan is never latest version19:48
huh530.0.1 works19:49
nemobuZz: one thing I've heard is that if you alter the contract, initial your alterations, sign the whole business... HR won't even bother protesting this.19:49
buZzits a fixed version for each release19:49
nemobuZz: they don't care, it's just a checkbox for them19:49
nemobuZz: I haven't encountered one of those contracts yet fortunately19:49
buZzobs-studio/now 1:19.0.2-dmo2+deb9u1 amd64 [installed,local]19:49
buZzv19 is in devuan beowulf, huh5319:49
buZznext version will get a newer version19:49
buZzthis is how debian/devuan releases work19:50
buZzif you want 'latest' always, you need arch or gentoo or something19:50
buZzand a ton of time19:50
huh53Is it a bad idea trying to compile it?  That's what I just tried, I'm not seeing any icons19:50
huh53any caveats to the testing version?19:55
buZzi have no idea what 'seeing any icons' refers to19:57
buZzdo you have a screenshot showing this?19:58
huh53Looking for OBS icons19:58
nemodebdog: oh ffs.  Devuan can be bothered to maintain an i686 ISO, but not systemrescuecd???19:59
nemoyou'd think they'd need it even more19:59
huh53PrtScn is not producing screenshot prompt20:00
nemodebdog: only ISO I can find with x86 in the name (5.x one in their folders) unfortunately does not boot.  the 6.0.3 does boot, but I get stuck at incompatible kernel20:00
MinceRsystemrescuecd has jumped the shark20:01
MinceRup to 5.3.2 is based on gentoo and uses openrc (so i use 5.3.2)20:01
MinceRsince 6.x.x it's based on arch and uses cancerd20:02
nemoat this point in time don't care enormously, just want something simple that boots and gives me a visible screen20:02
nemothis old crappy machine seems to have issues with whatever the heck video options debian live CD uses20:02
nemoMinceR: unfortunately the machine insists that 5.3.2 was not a bootable media ☹20:03
MinceRstrange, even the hp craptop i use at work (which claims it can do legacy boot, but can't) can boot it20:03
huh53There is an INSTALL file in /obs-studio/, but when invoked says "For: command not found20:04
nemoMinceR: this is a really old sucky system I'm trying to recover20:04
debdoghehe, funy screenshot. can I share it?20:04
nemoMinceR: I have got to get it on something else. just been so busy ☹20:04
debdoghuh53: try "less INSTALL"20:04
nemoMinceR: soooo. have to find something else. something with an ultraminimalist boot. ideally just a terminal with no graphics options whatsoever. or maybe someone can tell me how to set that in boot options with the devuan live CD I have here20:05
nemoMinceR: as noted, the devuan failsafe booted but with a whole ton of errors after boot and couldn't get to a prompt20:05
nemohm. maybe one of the other ISOs20:06
nemoI think the install ones let you get to a prompt..20:07
nemooooh "minimal-live"20:07
nemolet's try that one20:07
nemofunny that minimal live is 400 megs20:08
huh53OK I guess I will install beowulf, is there any way to get Nvidia drivers to install during the system install?20:08
debdogther was a rumor Knoppix moved away from sysd. as an alternative to system(d)rescuecd20:09
nemoworth a shot I suppose20:09
nemoesp if they have a bare bones boot menu option which seems to be what I need20:10
debdogit's been a long time since I've used knoppix but back then it had a tons of boot options, nemo20:11
huh53Is there an iso of Beowulf?20:11
nemodebdog: checking knoppix forums and there was a recent release but it still seems to be debian buster.20:11
debdogit still might be sysd-less, nemo20:12
nemoat this point in time I'll pretty much take whatever I can get to actually get me to a command prompt ☺20:12
nemoso I'll probably give it a shot anyway20:12
nemonext one up is devuan minimal ISO20:13
nemobut grabbing knoppix at same time since download is being slow20:13
debdogalso, on a live cd for rescueing stuff sysd might not even be that much of an annoyance. as long as one does not have to fiddle with logs and 'services'20:14
nemoyeah. I'm really just looking for getting to a prompt right now20:15
nemoso I can alter the hard drive without having to remove it20:16
huh53Just a hint for developers, if you want your distro to take off... include OBS studio latest version in your distro... a lot of people who stream use this software, and they are going to tell their fans... most streamers are non technical so if they switch to Linux are going to pick one that has OBS installed by default20:19
buZzthere is no ISO for beowulf yet20:19
buZzits not released yet20:19
nemodebdog: hm. no more bootonly or CD versions of knoppix anymore. only dvd.  which is fine, except that the dvd is ginormous20:19
buZzhuh53: i use OBS v17 a lot to stream on devuan , works totally fine20:20
debdogyah, not ideal for slow connectios, nemo20:20
nemonot that particular specialised software is probably the main devuan sticking point ☺20:20
huh53I have 0.0.1 version20:20
nemodebdog: well that and this damn SSD only has 7 gigs left20:20
buZzhuh53: check 'apt search obs-studio'20:20
nemodebdog: don't want to clutter it up with more ISOs.20:20
buZzyou have a different version, its not 0.0.1 , OBS devs just suck at printing version number or something ;)20:21
huh53 hmmm I need a hex editor to get it to latest version?  :-D20:21
debdogor an hax-editor20:22
buZzyou could fix the sourcecode20:22
buZzbut i doubt OBS accepts fixes to older then current version ;)20:22
nemodebdog: guess you could try switching to beowulf. people here have been saying it is fairly usable20:22
nemoer s/debdog/huh53/20:24
debdognemo: have it on one PC and the not-being-able-to-install-wine-packages is a bit of a no-go (yes, compiling it proabably would work anyway)20:24
nemodebdog: oh. why?20:24
buZzyeah wine is properly busted in current beowulf :P20:24
debdoguhm, some i386 packages naming issue20:24
debdogor something like that, have not yet investigated further20:25
nemobleah same issue with devuan minimal ISO - as soon as I get past the non-graphical boot it goes to black. I clearly need to disable any attempt at high resolution anything. but I need a linux ISO that has that as an option20:25
debdognemo: booting rescue mode from installer iso does not work?20:26
nemohm. haven't tried installer iso yet. worth a shot I suppose. if it gets me to a prompt with mount.ext4 as an option20:26
nemothought I'd have better odds with ones intended to offer an environment, and minimal sounded ideal20:27
debdogminimal iso prolly supports rescue mode as well20:27
debdogthough never used minimal20:28
nemodebdog: "std, access, std-toram, access-toram, noprobe"20:29
nemono idea what any of those do20:29
nemodownloading the 2.1 i386 net inst20:29
furrywolfwine being broken is good to know.  I use wine to run an auto shop program.  I guess I shouldn't upgrade to beowulf.20:29
furrywolfI had to build a lot (about 50) of my own i386 packages to make wine install properly already...20:29
furrywolf(newer version of wine than the horribly old version in ascii)20:30
debdoguh, that's a lot20:30
nemofurrywolf: on the kid's devuan ascii 2.1 machine I was just using the winehq packages...20:30
nemoso far no problems20:30
nemothe debian ones I mean20:30
huhhhhbuZz, pretty sure this is an old old version of OBS, it doesn't even have Dlive listed as server sources... how did you go about installing V17?20:30
furrywolfyeah, but I needed a newer wine version - ascii's version wouldn't work.20:30
nemofurrywolf: well. that's why I said "winehq" ☺20:31
furrywolfnemo:  I'm using newer debian wine packages.  heh.20:31
furrywolfprobably would have been easier to build wine from source, though.  heh.20:31
nemofurrywolf: sure. but doesn't require compiling then.20:31
nemofurrywolf: winehq has their own deb packaging20:31
nemoand, seems to work ok in ascii. no surprise dependencies20:31
debdogon ascii they work. on beowulf they don't. that's the issue atm20:32
buZzhuhhhh: i distupgraded a ascii install to beowulf20:32
furrywolfI'm not sure it would have worked here...  a lot of the i386 problems were because I compile my own gtk, and had to thus compile my own i386 gtk too, since debian insists that versions on different archs have to be exactly the same...20:32
nemodebdog: sure. I was just noting that furrywolf could have maybe skipped all that compiling20:32
buZzascii-backports might have a newer version aswell?20:32
nemofurrywolf: ah. could be. dunno20:32
huhhhhahh so were you at 0.0.1 before that, or did you install OBS afterwards20:32
* debdog thought furrywolf was on beowulf, nemo20:32
furrywolfI couldn't install debian's i386 gtk version because I wasn't using debian's amd64 gtk...20:33
nemodebdog: he's just noting wine is important to him so he won't be switching any time soon20:33
huhhhhhow do I distro upgrage ascii?20:33
nemoa sentiment I concur with20:33
nemoalthough I do wonder if I could just keep using the winehq packages with beowulf...20:33
furrywolfI would like to use beowulf for other reasons, and have been thinking of upgrading.20:34
* debdog was only half listening. and now he's not listening at all anymore, need to do some other stuff....20:34
buZzhuhhhh: check the forum :) maybe
furrywolfyeah, I need to do other stuff too.  bbl.20:34
huhhhhI'm always in a hurry and I don't like to read :-DD20:36
buZzhuhhhh: welcome to a operating system that punishes people who dont read20:36
nemobuZz: that has been my experience with linux over the past couple of decades yes ☺20:38
nemodebdog: woot. got to a usable screen with the devuan minimal 2.1 standard by setting vga=771   I guess whatever vga=auto or whatnot was trying was failing with the barely-a-graphics-card on this machine.  big old crash in the intel fb driver regardless, but seems to have gotten past it... only now is hanging just after starting cron. and can't seem to get any keyboard interaction ☹20:39
* debdog would like to switch to gentoo but he's too dumb for that20:39
nemomaybe I can try vga=771 plus the noprobe20:39
huhhhhso what all comes extra in the 4GB install? I installed desktop-live, but this one has 3 GB more!
debdognemo: what hardware is that?20:40
debdogdang, and I am back to IRC20:40
nemodebdog: oh. some machine I got ages ago for $99 thought it'd make a decent server20:41
nemowhich it did20:41
fsmithredhuhhhh, the 4GB iso is one of the installer isos - not everything on the dvd will be installed20:42
fsmithredit uses the debian-installer20:43
huhhhh3gb of overhead?20:43
nemodebdog: something like the asus ts mini only with only a gig of RAM - it was not intended to have VGA at all. they had plastic backing covering the port on the board that needed cutting away20:43
fsmithred3gb of software you can install without a network connection20:43
nemodebdog: I usually run it headless unless I screw something up. which I did.20:43
huhhhhsince the live is only a little over 1GB20:43
nemomaybe I need to find a linux ISO from like 8 years ago20:44
fsmithred3gb of the most popular software in case someone wants it20:44
huhhhhfsmithred  with OBS :-D20:44
fsmithredwhat's OBS?20:44
huhhhhopen broadcaster software20:45
fsmithredis that for radio or webcast?20:45
buZzvideostreaming of webcams and screencaptures20:45
buZzto twitch/youtube/own rtmp servers20:46
huhhhhone of the most pita software to install in Linux, used by every streamer with millions of followers, who if they gave a shout out to a distro that comes with it, that distro could be the #1 distro just by that20:46
buZzdevuan comes with it20:46
huhhhhlike imagine if Pewdiepie swittch to Linux, and mentions the distro20:46
fsmithredwell, if you were doing broadcast radio, you could deal with rivendell, which is another major PITA to install20:47
huhhhhOBS is for internet streaming20:47
huhhhhand screen recording20:47
buZzfsmithred: some ppl at our hackerspace use liquid soap for audio queueing20:47
buZzsometimes even mixed with MPD20:47
buZzbut with liquid soap they can easily do commercial breaks etc20:47
fsmithredyeah, I haven't played with liquid soap20:47
fsmithredI'm not finding obs in devuan20:48
huhhhhbuZz, you're saying it is installed on the 4GB?20:50
fsmithredcontrib or non-free?20:50
buZz'the 4GB' ? what20:50
buZzoh that might be it fsmithred20:50
fsmithredhuhhhh, he's saying it's in the repository20:50
buZzjust pulling the debian one upstream?20:50
buZzobs-studio/now 1:19.0.2-dmo2+deb9u1 amd64 [installed,local]20:50
huhhhh4GB distro
fsmithredwe don't know if it's in the dvd, but I'll bet it isn't20:51
fsmithredyeah, the obs website shows that it's in debian repo, therefore it's in devuan too.20:52
huhhhhobs-studio/now 20191212-1 amd64 [installed,local]20:52
fsmithredso you already installed it?20:53
huhhhh a few times20:54
huhhhhnow it's20:54
huhhhhobs-studio/stable,now 0.15.4+dfsg1-1+b1 amd64 [installed]20:54
fsmithredyeah, that's the version in ascii20:56
huhhhhIt is an ancient version, doesn't have dlive in the server list yet.20:58
buZzhuhhhh: see, its v1520:59
nemodebdog: netinst rescue mode did the trick.  set vga super low for good measure21:00
nemofinally got a mount point to the filesystem21:00
nemoaaand fixed my stupidity21:00
nemoand booted21:00
nemobasically rebooted the server with /boot/bootimage being a symlink to the image for some reason. I have no idea how I managed to do that21:01
nemowelp. guess I'm gonna setup irssi on the server again...21:11
nemoand shop for some more cheap computing21:11
tom_workWhat is a good graphical mariadb and/or postgres GUI without featureitis and only implements the basic of what the CLI implements?22:04
tom_workI normally use emma but it seems to have trouble keeping up with large datasets22:04
masontom_work: I only ever use the stock CLIs or custom CLI tools.22:11
masontom_work: What's the goal with a GUI for the purpose?22:11
tom_workmason, it's quicker to click on a tab to swap between SORT 'col' DESC, SORT 'col' ASC, view null values as a specific color like cyan, and get an overview of the schema in a specific tag22:18
tom_workotherwise I'm still writing and interacting with the RDBMS with raw SQL22:18
tom_workit's more convenience for testing this in a development or maintenance environment22:19
masontom_work: kk, reasonable - I was just curious. If you find one I'd like to give it a try.22:20
tom_workmason, I use emma currently22:21
tom_workand works fantastic22:21
masonum, paste-o22:22
masonI'll give Emma a try. Thank you.22:22
tom_workonly problem is when your handling 90,000,0+ rows the GUI freezes up for a few seconds, and it seems to need to be restarted to work properly if your SQL TCP connection dies22:22
tom_workmason, It's on the Devuan ASCII repos22:22
masonCool. (Although FWIW I only use Beowulf lately.)22:23
tom_workidk if the same version is in beowulf22:23
tom_workbut it's python2 code so you can easily jus extract it from an old package and run it if that's the case22:24
systemdlete2Mom, may I have a cookie?23:49
systemdlete2polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie23:49
systemdlete2PolicyKit is hungry for a cookie.23:49
systemdlete2Log file:  Unregistered Authentication Agent for unix-process:4300:73536 (system bus name :1.29, object path /org/freedesktop/PolicyKit1/AuthenticationAgent,23:50
systemdlete2This is when I launch gufw from a regular user.  It works fine if I run gufw from root command prompt though (of course...)23:50
systemdlete2If I run gufw from the menus, it quietly fails; I do not see hide nor hair of it.23:51
systemdlete2If I run gufw from regular user command line, it fails when I enter root password (which I confirm is correct, and have tried multiple times) with the error in the log.23:51
systemdlete2Googling reveals this is kind of a widespread problem23:52
systemdlete2This is my ascii VM23:53
systemdlete2afaik, it has all of the updates23:53
systemdlete2This is actually a minor nuisance, since I can always launch gufw from the root command line.  But it is a bug of some sort.23:54

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