libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-01-02

frabbitfsmithred: what dm do u use with lxqt?00:02
fsmithredlightdm got installed00:02
fsmithredI don't use lxqt; I just installed it to test00:02
flrnfrabbit: could not find that dng thread with the "lurker":
flrnit might help fixing the consolekit "lock in"00:03
frabbitflrn: ?00:19
flrnfrabbit: ?00:24
frabbitflrn: i dont even know what this is. ^^00:25
flrnyou wrote the elogind installation would "want to remove lxde-core, lxsession, openbox-lxde-session"00:31
flrnI was in the same situation and found the only way around a fresh install was to un- and later reinstall the packages, with elogind in charge00:32
frabbitflrn: oh ok.00:38
frabbitbut now its too late =)00:38
frabbit*however thx00:39
frabbitfsmithred: erm.. theres no lxqt here in installation o001:07
fsmithredwhat do you mean?01:07
frabbitonly xfce, mate, cinnamon and kde01:07
fsmithredwhat iso do you have?01:07
fsmithrednetinstall, CD1 or DVD?01:08
fsmithred2.0 or 2.1?01:09
fsmithredand arch01:09
frabbithm.. probably 2.001:09
frabbitwas 2.1 released on 21 december 2019?01:09
fsmithredhang on01:09
frabbitor was that just last change01:10
fsmithredyeah, 21 Dec01:10
frabbitok then i have definently 2.0 here01:10
frabbiti use this disk since ascii is out and stable01:11
fsmithredyeah, it should work ok01:11
frabbitlxqt is only on 2.1?01:11
fsmithredno, I tested it on 2.001:11
frabbitexpert installer?01:11
fsmithredbut I'm sure it's on 2.1 amd64 netinstall01:11
fsmithredit's in the tasksel list with the other desktops01:12
frabbitok i use expert...01:12
frabbityes i have the list here and theres no lxqt...01:12
fsmithredyeah, and it should be in the tasksel list with the other desktops01:12
fsmithredexpert or regular shouldn't matter01:12
frabbitwould be weird otherwise...01:12
frabbitso no lxqt 4 me01:13
frabbitbut 4 u...01:13
frabbitsame iso...01:13
frabbitthats weird too ^^01:13
frabbitdoes the tasksel list chnage when u use a network connection on install?01:14
fsmithredI don't think so01:15
fsmithredbut maybe it does.01:16
fsmithredI think I've seen that on CD101:16
frabbitwhat lxqt?01:16
fsmithredno, shorter tasksel list01:16
frabbiti thought u used the dvd iso?01:16
fsmithredI used the netinstall iso yesterday01:16
frabbitbut i have dvd here...01:16
frabbitbut netinstall is something different...01:17
fsmithredwell, if you choose a network mirror with any of the install isos, you get a netinstall01:17
fsmithredi.e. latest software pulled from repo01:17
frabbiti always do offline installation01:18
frabbitafter that i minimize the base system and install apt-transport-https to upgrade devuan over https01:19
frabbitwhat default system tools in that tasksel list?01:20
fsmithredif you install a desktop system from CD1 or DVD without mirror, some things will not be installed.01:20
fsmithredstandard system utilities?01:20
frabbit(have non english version here)01:21
fsmithredthings like less, bzip2 whois and some other stuff like that01:21
frabbiti never run this section so ineed to ask ^^01:21
frabbiti do not understand why i have no lxqt here...01:22
fsmithredneither do I01:22
frabbitwas it default at urs?01:22
frabbithere it is xfce as default...01:22
frabbitmaybe theres a version between 2.0.0 and 2.1?01:23
fsmithredxfce is the default desktop01:23
frabbiti normally do not install one so i dont know that neitehr01:24
frabbitlast time i saw such a list was in debian times.. dunno 3 years ago or so...01:25
frabbiti try xfce...01:26
frabbitis lxqt much light/faster then xfce?01:26
frabbitlxqt was much slower then lxde thats what i reconized here...01:27
frabbit(probably because it does much eye candy...)01:27
fsmithredI don't know lxqt well. I use xfce most of the time.01:29
frabbitreading release notes atm, it says that the repo has changed to will be discontinoue?01:30
fsmithredno, pkgmaster is the master server. deb.devuan is the round-robin01:31
frabbitlol it doesnt install just xfce, it installs a lot of programs... *facepalm*01:31
frabbitfsmithred: ok01:31
fsmithredyeah, task-xfce-desktop or task-whatever-desktop installs a very full system01:32
frabbitenvince, vlc, firefox... o001:32
fsmithredand you will have trouble if you try to remove a lot of it01:32
frabbitthats really beginner stuff i totally forgot this default way of installation XD01:32
frabbitway to big .. no maybe even bloated01:33
frabbitXp that takes double as long then basic installation...01:34
frabbit66% atm XD01:35
frabbita cancel button would be nice here ;)01:35
frabbitis it hard to create an installer 4 devuan?01:38
frabbitor better: a customized installer01:38
fsmithredthe installer isos?01:38
fsmithredgetting it all right can be tricky01:39
frabbitermm i mean this blu-red ncurses thing here01:39
frabbitonly that01:39
fsmithredyou don't like that?01:40
frabbitwhat? no i do!01:40
fsmithredit's better than the graphical installer01:40
frabbitof course01:40
frabbiti mean: graphical installer? what is that? ;)01:40
frabbitit just would be cool to add my install scripts to it01:41
frabbitand probably run everything automatically without asking (except passphrases)01:41
fsmithredyou can do that with pre-seeding01:42
frabbitfsmithred: what is that01:42
fsmithredcustomizing the debian installer01:42
fsmithredto run the way you want01:42
frabbitis that easy?01:42
fsmithredautomated install01:42
fsmithredI have no idea01:42
frabbitmy instalelr would be done with a whole productive system i about..15 minutes i guess01:43
frabbitwhile i watching a video =)01:44
frabbitoh fsmithred01:45
frabbittheres some cosmetic "bug" in expert installer01:45
fsmithredwhat is it?01:45
frabbit4 the name of the vg it suggests Debian01:45
frabbitim not sure but i think in graphical installer that wasnt...01:46
frabbiti mentioned this months ago but always forgot to report it X)01:46
fsmithredI got /dev/mapper/devuan--vg-root01:46
frabbitas suggest?01:47
fsmithredI used guided partitioning for encrypted lvm01:47
fsmithredso I took whatever it gave me01:47
frabbitme too but with different partitions for tmp var home01:47
frabbitit always gave me Debian in expert installer01:48
frabbitand after that a hint taht "systemd is the best thing on earth ever!!1!" as text message...01:49
frabbitno that was a joke01:49
frabbitthe last one i mean01:49
fsmithredyeah, I know01:49
fsmithredin beowulf, your boot menu will say Debian01:50
frabbitHow dare it!01:51
fsmithredyou're right - lxqt is not on the dvd at all. I guess you only see it as a choice if you choose a mirror.02:14
frabbitinstalled lxqt-core but i cannot shutdown from that menu and it even do not show me any devices...02:59
frabbitman.. and so slow.. who want that crap?03:00
frabbitwas it right that consolekit causes problems? it is in xfce too...03:06
gnarfacefrabbit: really, read the release notes, at least the section about it03:09
gnarfaceit explains it the best03:09
frabbitgnarface: u mean this:
gnarfacejust do a string search for consolekit, or elogind, then read that section03:10
frabbitive already red it03:12
frabbitbut this installation i didnt installed a dm, so i will try again with lxqt and lightdm03:13
frabbitthese scripts from tasksel are they available somewhere?03:14
frabbitas i thought: it doesnt work03:19
frabbitthers lxqt, lightdm, elogind...03:19
frabbitthis crap wastes my lifetime03:20
frabbitdouzen of desk.env. but none works out of the box...03:21
frabbitlike the most in linux...03:21
fsmithredyou didn't exactly open the box in the normal way03:21
frabbitfsmithred: of course not because there was no lxqt in my tasksel03:22
frabbitbut even if... it would install douzen of unwanted packages too, just like xfce...03:22
frabbiti dont want that03:22
frabbitu choose a dektop env. and it installs u a pdfreader a webbrowser.... wtf?!03:23
fsmithreddownload a refracta iso and use my package list. xfce without metapackages, so you can add and remove stuff easily.03:23
frabbitfsmithred: refracta iso? ur package list?03:23
fsmithredhang on and I'll paste my notes somewhere and you can make your own03:24
fsmithredRefracta is a derivative distro03:24
frabbitok i only saw this in devuan live where i tried to built my own live system03:27
fsmithredyeah, refractainstaller and refractasnapshot are tools for making and installing your own live iso03:28
fsmithredfrabbit, look especially at the last section:
frabbitfsmithred: ok thx.. what to do with that list?04:48
fsmithredlook at what I installed for xfce04:49
frabbitanother question: does tasksel depnds on aptitude? cause my tasksel here on hdd fails with error: tasksel:Aptitude failed (100)04:49
fsmithredno, it shouldn't need aptitude04:50
frabbiti tried it often now.. it has get 1036 files (i choose lxqt) but then it stops...04:51
fsmithredyou're installing with mirror now?04:52
frabbitno ive installed from my dvd, minimal again. but now i run tasksel with root04:53
frabbiti can choose lxqt now04:53
fsmithredthere's no lxqt on the dvd04:53
frabbitthe installation is already done04:53
frabbitim on tty with root now04:53
frabbitand i have runned tasksel04:54
frabbitplanned was to set up an easy to use system for a person who use a computer first time and i got into the hardest and most annoying installation routine i ever was... XP05:00
frabbitfsmithred: i dont become wise with ur list...05:02
fsmithredif you want xfce4, don't install xfce4 (it's a metapackage). Install the parts instead.05:02
frabbitthe parts_05:03
frabbiteverz package in ur list that begins with xfce_05:03
fsmithredxfconf xfdesktop4 xfwm4 xfce4-terminal xfce4-session05:03
fsmithredif you want some other desktop, do it the same way. Install the parts you want.05:04
fsmithredIt will require some research to figure out which parts you want05:04
frabbitand that will make it possibel to use external medias?05:04
frabbitthese 5 packages?05:04
fsmithredif you do it right, yes05:04
fsmithredfuck no, not just those 405:04
fsmithredif you want a full desktop for a newbie, you probably should just accept the full desktop with all its cruft05:05
fsmithredif you want a custom job with everything working, it's gonna take some work05:05
fsmithredthe package list I gave you is the one I use for refracta and everything works05:06
frabbiti have a nice working system05:06
fsmithredyou could replace lxdm with lightdm05:06
frabbitbut when it comes to gui stuff05:06
fsmithredfor you05:06
frabbityes 4 me05:06
fsmithrednot for your newbie friend05:06
frabbitbut the other person needs icons and stuff..05:06
fsmithredwho probably doesn't know enough to care about cruft05:06
frabbit"friend" =D05:07
fsmithredand would probably like kde05:07
frabbitits an old woman ;)05:07
frabbitkde yug...05:07
frabbitno no05:07
fsmithredthe default xfce desktop is pretty good05:07
fsmithredit has icons and menus like every sane OS since win9505:07
frabbitis there a way to remove some packages from that tasksel choosen desk.env. in installation?05:07
fsmithredsane UI05:07
fsmithredno. Tasksel is a curse.05:08
frabbita curse? =D05:08
frabbitsomething spooky?05:08
fsmithredno, just that you get all the extra baggage with your choices05:08
frabbitphew.. so i will install xfce then and have great fun removing unwanted packages after install... °_° cant.. wait..05:09
fsmithredwhy do you need to remove them?05:10
fsmithredput the icons she needs on the desktop and be done with it05:10
frabbiti dont want this evince pdf 4 example05:10
frabbitand manz other too...05:10
fsmithredyou want the old lady to use xpdf?05:10
frabbiti have a packagelist 4 a beginner system05:10
frabbitxpdf is crap and it also can use javascrip..05:11
frabbitif u like i cant paste mz list somewhere05:11
frabbit*i can05:11
fsmithredno thanks05:11
fsmithredI'm going to bed in a few minutes05:12
frabbit=) good idea05:12
frabbitim sitting here for hours again...05:12
frabbitmy beginner system is nearly perfect.. only that possibilty to use external medias in pcmanfm wasnt working... thats why i begun to install lxde-core etc...05:14
frabbitactual i would just need another fm that makes this possible by just install it... then everything would be fine...05:15
frabbitbut something like that seems to nonexist...05:15
frabbitdoesnt make sense to me that a program offer a function but do not install packages that bring that function to a system.. but hey...05:16
fsmithredspacefm with pmount works05:19
fsmithredpcmanfm with pmount works05:19
frabbitso if i have pcmanfm i can install this package pmount..?05:20
frabbitand then she could plug in every usb and use it?05:20
fsmithredshould work. I've done it.05:20
frabbitnevr heard of this pmount05:21
fsmithredlets user mount/unmount removable drives05:21
fsmithredanother one is udevil05:21
frabbityes ive red now..05:21
frabbitbut not with terminal right?05:21
fsmithredyou can use pmount in terminal if you want05:21
fsmithredbut the file managers will work with it05:22
frabbitif thats all...05:22
frabbitwhy i had to try all the other things today? ^^05:22
frabbitconsolekit bla...05:22
fsmithredyou think you're finished now?05:23
fsmithredmaybe, maybe not.05:23
fsmithredyou're trying to put together a custom system.05:23
frabbitu said pcmanfm with pmount works..05:23
fsmithredit's not going to happen in one hour.05:23
frabbitlol not even in 10...05:24
frabbitno but really i have this system05:24
frabbitthe only problem is that mounting crap05:24
frabbitas non-root user05:24
frabbitthe rest works great and its still very small for a system with so much gui programs05:25
fsmithredok, time for sleep05:26
fsmithredgood luck with it.05:26
fsmithredgood night05:26
frabbitfsmithred: good night05:27
frabbitand thx for ur help =)05:27
frabbitthx to gnarface and flrn too05:46
Centurion_Danfurrywolf: are you trying the wolf in sheeps clothing thing again???  you need to practise that Baa Baa a bit more.  It's just not convincing...09:51
flingWhen is the next release?10:03
bnjffling: you can dist-upgrade into it now, if you're keen11:55
flingbnjf: thanks12:15
bnjffling: i was tempted, but i only switched to devuan the other day to minimise maintenance :P12:49
bnjfso i'll wait till it's deemed ready12:49
frabbithi. i cant burn the devuan iso to dvd:
frabbitthe device plays cds and dvds without problems.21:36
Akulifrabbit, do you have a usb stick?21:45
Akulialso try:  ls /dev21:46
frabbitAkuli: yes i have an usb stick.21:47
Akuliyou can write the devuan iso to that21:47
frabbitalready done, i want a dvd21:47
frabbiti always have to different installation medias21:48
Akulido you have a computer that doesn't boot from usb stick? some old computers are like that21:48
Akuliin those cases, you can put a thing called plop boot manager to a dvd, and boot that21:48
Akulithen use it to boot the usb stick21:48
frabbitAkuli: no its fine i just want to burn that iso on dvd as i did douzens times before...21:50
Akuliok :D ls /dev21:51
Akuliit could be called sr0 or sr1 or something21:51
frabbitAkuli: what do u need from that output?21:51
Akuliyou can pastebin it all, i would look for things starting with sr21:51
Akulithe error message you pastebinned ends with: Cannot open '/dev/sr0'21:51
frabbitsr0 is there...21:51
Akuliare you running this with sudo?21:51
frabbithow could i play cds and dvds if it wasnt21:52
frabbitno as root21:52
frabbiti dont use sudo21:52
Akulii don't know how permissions for these things work :D21:52
frabbitfor what?21:52
frabbitls or wodim?21:52
Akulithe dvd drive21:52
Akulii have never had issues with gui dvd burners21:52
frabbitu need to run wodim as root21:52
frabbitwodim isnt a gui..21:53
Akulii know21:53
Akuliwodim: No medium found. Cannot open '/dev/sr0'21:53
Akulii guess you put the dvd to the drive?21:53
frabbiti tried different empty dvds21:54
Akulii would try a gui dvd burning program21:54
frabbitalays the same output21:54
frabbitAkuli: no i wont XD21:54
frabbitalso u know that they all use wodim right?21:55
Akulii don't know how the gui dvd burner programs work, they are magic :D21:56
Wonkagrowisofs for the win21:56
frabbitAkuli: ur gui programs are just frontends...22:00
frabbitoh 4 my problem: i forgot to say that ive done that douzen times with this drive and these types of dvds under devuan22:02
Akulii understood, yes22:03
frabbitnoone has a clue about this wodim error? o022:40
Akulii didn't find much by googling it22:41
StarbeamrainbowlHello, I was looking for the devuan-arm channel (I've followed the instructions on the Devuan website), and it's claiming that there's no such name or channel? I'm confused.23:41
fsmithredStarbeamrainbowl, I see familiar names in #devuan-arm on freenode.net23:44
StarbeamrainbowlAh, thanks @fsmithred! I must have forgotten the hash.23:45
fsmithredyou're using an irc client?23:45
StarbeamrainbowlErm I'm now getting "Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services"23:45
fsmithredoh, yeah, you might need to be registered23:45
fsmithredand logged in23:45
fsmithred(anti-spam measures)23:46
StarbeamrainbowlWhat's this registration thing? I'm not an IRC user myself23:46
fsmithredthere's a way to register with NickServ23:46
StarbeamrainbowlWhat's "NickServ"?23:46
fsmithredI guess it's the server that handles logins (and nicknames)23:47
StarbeamrainbowlI....see? So much work just to ask a question :-/23:47
StarbeamrainbowlAll I wanted to know what whether Devuan has support for the Rock Pi S or the Nano Pi Neo (/2)23:48
StarbeamrainbowlIt's not listed in the ARM boards list, so I'm guessing the answer is no23:48
fsmithredyeah, I think you're right. Those names don't look familiar23:48
fsmithredsupport for arm boards is spotty. We're turning it over to community volunteers.23:49
fsmithredMore info at the forum:
StarbeamrainbowlWhat? I just lost connection - and it hasn't saved my history23:50
fsmithredoops. You were gone. I'll repeat.23:50
fsmithredsupport for arm boards is spotty. We're turning it over to community volunteers.23:50
fsmithredMore info at the forum:
StarbeamrainbowlThanks :-)23:50
StarbeamrainbowlAh, I see. Sounds like support could be a few years off then. Thanks for the info!23:51
fsmithredYou might be able to get some help building your own images23:51
StarbeamrainbowlThat'd be great if possible! I do not yet own the boards I mentioned earlier. I'm just researching support at this time - so that I can decide whether it's worth me buying them23:52
StarbeamrainbowlThe SoCs of the above are either Allwinner H5 or RK330823:52
fsmithredI know nothing23:59
StarbeamrainbowlNo problem. A thought: could I install Debian Buster 'normally' for the board and then migrate to Devuan/23:59

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