libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-01-09

DarwinElfi'm trying to convert Debian 10 to Devuan 2.1 on a virtual private server (VPS.)  I followed but after the reboot, had no network, had to login with the VPS console and couldn't get network going again... aren't there more instructions for network or cases like this? (of course, there's no GUI)05:24
DarwinElfoh, I see those instructions may only be for older versions?  I could install Debian 9... or should this also work for 10?05:28
furrywolfyou might try upgrading to the not-quite-released-yet devuan release.05:29
DarwinElfi only use stable releases05:29
DarwinElfobviously I can't upgrade anyway because I have no network05:30
DarwinElfcan't say I'm surprised.  I saw some longer instructions some years ago... the instructions were pages & pages, covering everything like how to replace system services like network.  Those new instructions I linked are barely a page... isn't stuff left out?05:31
furrywolfswitching from debian to devuan, at least with the previous release, had gotten very smooth.05:31
furrywolfdowngrading might have broken things05:31
DarwinElfexcellent... but still didn't work in this case.  Should it work if I reinstall the VPS from Debian 10 to 9?05:32
furrywolfit should work, but you could also try seeing what's wrong with the network...  does ifconfig -a list reasonable devices?  can you ifconfig one of them your ip?05:32
furrywolfI don't know how much testing has been done on vpses vs actual hardware.05:34
DarwinElfit listed them, but I already reinstalled.  I tried configuring them and it wasn't working that well.  Well, actually they were all down, but I have four similar VPS from one company at each of their places those are available05:36
DarwinElfso I brought them back up (all the same) but didn't work (really weird devices like venet0:0)05:36
DarwinElfit shouldn't really matter because a VPS just emulates hardware, mostly05:36
furrywolfcould have downgraded the kernel to something the host doesn't like, or something like that...  I know linode made me upgrade mine a couple times.05:37
furrywolfif reinstalling isn't a problem, you can try installing old debian and then switching to devuan ascii, or you could try switching to debian beowulf.  it's not labeled as stable yet, but it's getting pretty close, and a lot of people are running it.05:39
DarwinElfi don't have that option.  Only Debian 9, 1005:39
furrywolfdebian 9 would be old debian.05:39
furrywolfoh, I see, I typoed.  d'oh.  devuan beowulf.05:40
DarwinElfi might try a development/unstable version on an extra PC, but never main PC or server... just won't do it after decades of experience that there's often more bugs... not going to ever consider it05:40
DarwinElfif I joined an OS development team, it'd be a different story05:41
furrywolffrom what I've heard, beowulf is ready if you're not running a desktop environment, which I would assume you're not on a server.05:41
furrywolfsomeone actually developing it could give you a better answer.  I just use devuan, and complain a lot.  :)05:42
furrywolf(not about devuan)05:42
DarwinElfyes, it's just not an option for my VPS plan... only 9, 10, no 'custom ISO' even05:43
furrywolfthen try debian 9 and upgrading to ascii from there, if reinstalling isn't a problem.05:43
DarwinElfalright, after I reinstalled to 9, installed sysvinit-core, rebooted, all the network was down again.  I have a list of the devices in another VPS ifconfig05:43
furrywolfeh?  what instructions are you following that involve manually installing sysvinit?05:44
DarwinElfi linked it right before you originally replied to me05:45
furrywolfoh, had no protocol, didn't get shown as a link.05:47
furrywolfsomeone who knows more about the migration process will need to help...  and it's getting to be bedtime for me too.  getting too tired to be useful.  heh.05:48
furrywolfmy understanding was you just changed your sources.list and did an apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade and it automatically worked.05:50
furrywolfbut, I could well be wrong.  heh.05:50
DarwinElfi never mentioned that... never got to that point before I had problems05:51
DarwinElfactually the network devices and even /etc/resolv.conf come up as soon as I bring up lo and maybe IPv4... but still can't connect05:54
DarwinElfit's strange... it has venet0 (IPv6) and venet0:0 (IPv4)05:54
DarwinElfmaybe one depends on the other05:54
g4570nIf you run out of network, it may be because Devuan continues to use the old names for network interfaces (eth0), instead Debian from version 9 / Stretch uses another nomenclature for network interfaces05:54
DarwinElfi fixed it.  I just restarted the networking script05:56
DarwinElfwell when you get weird machines, like laptops, servers, VPS, they use all kinds of names... I've seen at least five or six different ones than eth0 or even wlan005:56
DarwinElfi got to the 'apt dist-upgrade' part, now after a lot of upgrade it just keeps saying: .init: timeout opening/writing control channel /run/initctl06:03
DarwinElfwell I guess it may have worked anyway06:03
DarwinElfit seems to have been a success... got sshd running now... haven't rebooted yet though.  I am surprised, unlike older Unix(-like) OSes, there's no wheel group but PAM06:10
DarwinElfi guess that's because some shady organization pushed Linux Standard Base (LSB) over the POSIX standard and GNU additions... have to enable and disable things accordingly then06:12
DarwinElfand you have SysVInit but it's still /etc/init.d rather than /etc/rc.d ?  I guess there are different ways to do it then... but you also just call sshd ssh in that directory?  Very weird06:17
DarwinElfi used older POSIX-based OSes 1997 - '8, then Debian until '00 so this seems like what I used to use, but mostly I'm used to other stuff.  I'm sure Devuan will still be much better than having to use current Debian, even if I'm (re)learning some things06:18
DarwinElfwell, I did the reboot so maybe that's the final test.  Excellent06:22
DarwinElfi need to report... for some recent torrent, some of the data is corrupt.  I wanted to seed the torrent, then had to just download the ISO from FTP/HTTP and not seed it.  Torrent kept saying corrupt, restarting06:29
DarwinElfbut at least I'll be removing Debian from my list on and changing it to Devuan06:29
DarwinElfones I use06:29
DarwinElfredoing the three other VPS next06:30
DarwinElfexcellent, this really saves a lot of hassle.  I'd hate having to use binary logs then systemd developers force you to use their tools or have no logs06:30
furrywolfbbl, bedtime.06:30
DarwinElfis there Devuan equivalent to Debian 10 yet or that's just coming in some months... or the instructions I used are old?06:39
onefangThat'll be Devuan Beowulf, which is almost ready.06:42
DarwinElfok... I'll think about upgrading06:44
DarwinElfupgrading Debian to Devuan instructions say enable backports repository... but isn't that still some maybe unstable stuff, so actually optional?06:56
DarwinElfalso I need to get a list of all later user-installed (i.e., not core, but additional) packages.  This worked for Debian but not Devuan: comm -13 <(gzip -dc /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort) <(comm -23 <(dpkg-query -W -f='${Package}\n' | sed 1d | sort) <(apt-mark showauto | sort))07:00
DarwinElfusually when people answer that question on forums they only give a command to list all packages ever installed... way more than people want... they just want the ones they installed themselves, after the OS installation, with apt, not from the entire original installation07:02
DarwinElfactually I won't need that command until later... got a list somewhere else of what I needed07:27
yetinot catching auto installed packages may not reflect the state correctly because of alternatives08:09
yetisome dependencies can be saisfied by multiple choices08:09
yetiI catch all installed packages (awk '$1=="Package:"{P=$2} $1=="Version:"{V=$2} $1=="Status:" && $2~/ installed$/{next} !$0{print P" "V}' /var/lib/dpkg/status | sort > packages.$(hostname)) and compare them with an own lill script:
gnu_srs1If somebody is running systemd as pid 1 (god forgive), what is your output if ps -p1? I get with sysvinit: CMD=init. What about openrc?08:49
yeti$  ps -p108:50
yeti  PID TTY          TIME CMD08:50
yeti    1 ?        00:26:09 systemd08:50
yeti$  ps -p108:50
yeti  PID TTY          TIME CMD08:50
yeti    1 ?        00:26:09 systemd08:50
yetitaken from a debian1008:50
gnu_srs1yeti: Thanks :)08:52
yeti    1 ?        00:02:06 init08:53
yetithe other systems are sleeping08:55
cosurgi  PID TTY          TIME CMD19:10
cosurgi    1 ?        00:03:45 init19:10
* cosurgi today repaired PC with 3d-printed pastic part that holds fan on the CPU.19:11
cosurgisince PC was turned off it's a perfect occasion for a full upgrade.19:12
cosurgiit turned off itself when the fan fell off the CPU. I'm glad the CPU didn't get roasted.19:12
cosurgithe plastic part on motherboard which holds the fan, broke. After a coupllle years since it was bought.19:13
cosurgiI got this error:19:23
cosurgiUnpacking locales-all (2.28-10) over (2.19-18+deb8u10) ...19:23
cosurgirm: loadlocale.c:129: _nl_intern_locale_data: Assertion `cnt < (sizeof (_nl_value_type_LC_TIME) / sizeof (_nl_value_type_LC_TIME[0]))' failed.19:23
cosurgidpkg: error while cleaning up:19:23
cosurgi subprocess rm command for cleanup was killed by signal (Aborted)19:23
cosurgiNow it looks like by shell cannot invoke any command.19:23
cosurgiexport LC_TIME=POSIX19:25
cosurgifixed the problem.19:25
cosurgiThat interrupted the upgrade.19:25
* cosurgi runs dpkg --configure -a19:26
cosurgihm. Another error:19:39
cosurgiapt-get: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ version `LIBSYSTEMD_221' not found (required by /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
cosurgithat's an upgrade from devuan jessie to beowulf in progress19:40
cosurginot sure what apt wants from systemd.19:42
cosurgiwhew. ok. fixed with this command:19:56
cosurgicd /var/cache/apt/archives ; dpkg -i apt_1.8.2_amd64.deb adduser_3.118_all.deb gpgv_2.2.12-1+deb10u1_amd64.deb libapt-pkg5.0_1.8.2_amd64.deb libc6_2.28-10_amd64.deb libgcc1_1%3a8.3.0-6_amd64.deb libgnutls30_3.6.7-4_amd64.deb libseccomp2_2.3.3-4_amd64.deb libstdc++6_8.3.0-6_amd64.deb libsystemd0_232-25+deb9u12_amd64.deb libgcrypt20_1.8.4-5_amd64.deb passwd_1%3a4.5-1.1_amd64.deb19:57
cosurgilibbz2-1.0_1.0.6-9.2\~deb10u1_amd64.deb libgpg-error0_1.35-1_amd64.deb zlib1g_1%3a1.2.11.dfsg-1_amd64.deb libapt-pkg5.0_1.8.2_amd64.deb liblz4-1_1.8.3-1_amd64.deb liblzma5_5.2.4-1_amd64.deb libudev1_1%3a3.2.7+devuan1.1_amd64.deb libzstd1_1.3.8+dfsg-3_amd64.deb libgmp10_2%3a6.1.2+dfsg-4_amd64.deb libhogweed4_3.4.1-1_amd64.deb libidn2-0_2.0.5-1_amd64.deb libnettle6_3.4.1-1_amd64.deb19:57
cosurgilibp11-kit0_0.23.15-2_amd64.deb libtasn1-6_4.13-3_amd64.deb libunistring2_0.9.10-1_amd64.deb  libselinux1_2.8-1+b1_amd64.deb19:57
sixwheeledbeaster pastebin for big stuff please :)19:58
cosurgiI thought someone would be curious.19:58
fsmithredgoing directly from jessie to beowulf sounds like it would be unnecessarily difficult.20:01
cosurgiyes. I see that now.20:02
cosurgiit's a big mess.20:02
fsmithredyou might be able to "downgrade" to ascii if you pin it with a priority of 100120:13
fsmithredget that working and you can upgrade to beowulf20:13
fsmithredmake a fresh install20:13
cosurgihow can I pin ascii to 1001 ? :)20:13
cosurgiwhat in /etc/apt/preferences.d ?20:14
cosurgiwhat to put there ? :)20:14
cosurgiI'm trying to downgraade back to ascii manually in aptitude by downgrading packages by hand20:14
fsmithredPin: *20:14
fsmithredI screw that up every time20:14
fsmithredfirst line...20:14
fsmithredPackage: *20:15
fsmithredPin: release n=ascii20:15
fsmithredPin-Priority: 100120:15
fsmithredand poing sources.list to ascii20:15
fsmithredupdate and upgrade (dist-upgrade)20:15
cosurgithanks a lot. I'm trying now :)20:16
fsmithredgood luck20:16
cosurgisomething works.... some stuff is being installed. Let's hope it won't crash again.20:23
cosurgiwow, only one error:20:33
cosurgiErrors were encountered while processing:20:33
cosurgi lsb-release20:33
avboxI wanted to install k3b for burinng triple layer blue ray (about 93.x GB). Installing of k3b works, but it does remove libsystemd and a lot of other packages. So after installing it, booting up becomes very slow, switching from normal user to root is too very slow, but I can't see any logs why it is. Any ideas? Or any blue ray burning tool which is20:34
avboxcapable of triple layer blue ray? Tested fxburn and brasero (was not able to burn triple layer blue ray).20:34
fsmithredmaybe even xorriso - that does a lot of things20:34
fsmithredhave to say I'm completely surprised that anything would remove libsystemd0 (aside from libelogind0)20:35
avbox@fsmithred: Was not able to burn it on console, not with wodim or xorriso, log of k3b says it does use:/usr/bin/genisoimage -gui -graft-points -print-size -quiet -volid K3b data project -volset  -appid K3B THE CD KREATOR (C) 1998-2017 SEBASTIAN TRUEG, MICHAL MALEK AND LESLIE ZHAI -publisher  -preparer  -sysid LINUX -volset-size 1 -volset-seqno 120:36
avbox-sort /tmp/k3b.gDtqoL -rational-rock -hide-list /tmp/k3b.kqHuCw -no-cache-inodes -allow-limited-size -udf -full-iso9660-filenames -iso-level 3 -path-list /tmp/k3b.wPVzRr20:36
cosurgifsmithred: thanks a lot. I think this is going to work.20:39
avbox@fsmithred It does install libelogind0, but why is this needed for an installation of k3b?20:39
gnu_srs1FYI: apt-get install -t testing libelogind0: The following packages will be REMOVED: libsystemd0; The following NEW packages will be installed: libelogind020:40
fsmithredavbox, it's probably not k3b itself that pulled in libelogind0. But I don't konw.20:40
fsmithredgnu_srs1, as it should be20:41
gnu_srs1Nice to see ;)  It should probably also be installed automatically when upgrading to Beowulf (does not do that now, needs manual installation)20:47
fsmithredI don't know if there's an easy way to do that.20:52
cosurgifsmithred: whew. Now upgrading from ascii to beowulf.21:00
cosurgifsmithred: I am in your debt.21:00
* cosurgi does jessie→ascii→beowulf.21:00
cosurgithe mess with the packages was seriously big. It seems that dpkg is compiled as statically linked. Otherwise I would have a lot more problems.21:04
fsmithredcosurgi, I'm glad it turned out to be good advice. :)21:07
fsmithredoh, I never thought about that, but I'll bet someone figured that out the hard way.21:08
cosurgicompiling apt as statically linked would saved even more problems :)21:09
HurgotronI once upgraded from Ubuntu 12.04 to Devuan ascii... totally unsupported, still worked.21:10

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