libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-01-18

emdete1i've got an old pentium-notebook, would like to install debian and wonder when debian gave up support for old 386-processors, does someone know the last release i could install? (ok, it's not a devuan topic, but perhaps someone knows?) is it when they switched arch from x86-32 to i386?11:35
buZzafaik the linux kernel -itself- removed 80386 support11:36
buZzbut i think current debian/devuan should install on a pentium1 just fine11:36
buZzthats a '586' anyway11:36
omnioemdete1: how old is your CPU? I run Devuan Ascii on an AMD Duron 850 MHz (that's an i686)11:40
fsmithredthere's a 586 kernel in ascii, but in beowulf, the lowest is 68611:40
fsmithred686 requires pentium-pro or better11:40
buZztnx fsmithred11:43
omniostrange, in ascii linux-image-586 is a "dummy package", while linux-image-686 is a "meta-package"11:47
omnioand installing linux-image-586 just pulls in linux-image-68611:56
buZzbah :(11:58
gnarfaceit would probably not be too hard to rebuild the beowulf kernel package as 586 again though12:10
gnarfacehope is not lost running beowulf on that thing if you're willing to compile a kernel12:10
emdete1yes, i think its pure pentium, meaning 586. so the binaries are fine but the kernel is required to be "old"?12:20
emdete1yes, for that little box i would do even that 😉 i am happily out of kernel compile since year....12:21
gnarfaceemdete1: i don't think it even has to be an old version.  i might be wrong about that, but i think it's still an available build option in the current versions of the kernels, just not one that's enabled by default everywhere anymore12:22
gnarfaceemdete1: if you have a machine with a newer cpu that does boot devuan, you could easily build it i think12:23
emdete1great. i was happy with an old debian because it lacks systemd (i started with debian before buzz which was like devuan is today: good old unix. 😉 ) but devuan would be even better!12:26
* buZz triggered12:27
buZzi never ran debian back when buzz came out12:27
yetibuzz had no apt13:08
yetithat makes a huge difference13:08
yetinevertheless... even dpkg-only debian was a huge step forward compared with the competitors of those days13:09
djphI remember trying to use slackware back in ... '06 (? maybe), and poking around was "oh packages are soooo easy with Debian ..."13:14
emdete1before debian i suffered from suse, later "LSD" a german distro too14:48
emdete1yeti: do you remember dselect? :D14:49
emdete1back in those days we told even a chicken can install debian 'cause you only have to pick enter. so putting some grain on that key would do the trick ;)14:50
yetiinstalling was mostly enter14:52
yetidselect wasn't14:52
yetiI schooled sysadmins in deselect days... their 1st impression of it was something between shock and horror14:54
yetibut after some hours they accepted my projection "you'll get used to it fast"14:54
yetiaptitude is much nicer but far too slow14:56
yetitry it on a PI114:56
yetior slower board14:56
yetidoes it really need to be soooo slow?14:56
yetithere's something wrong with it14:57
yetisuse degraded after 6.x14:58
yetiit was super stable in the 6.x days14:58
yeti7.x was a deaster14:59
yetiI was forced to use it @work14:59
yetitried to convince them to use debian but they thought it were for universities only14:59
yetior such14:59
yetiBUT: when I was away, they switched15:00
yetiprobybly big boss claimed it were his great idea then15:00
yetibut some excoworkers called me and new it wasnt15:00
yetiI bet he watche all dialin lines and the internet for me loggin in after leaving15:03
yetino way!15:04
yetiI'm not an idiot...15:04
GyrosGeierdselect is slower than apt on the same package list15:11
yetiaptitude on sub 1GHz boxes is a pain15:25
emdete1suse was fine for mainstream but if you needed it for something special it wasnt prepared for that, i found even artefacts in their scripts where they gave up some special case15:25
emdete1here are the specs for my notebook: 16MB RAM, 510MB HDD. i thought of reading/writing the HDD with an USB-adapter i have around from my usual notbook but that adapter cant read the disk (while it detects it) it only reads 512KB from it - even detects it as 512KB disk. no clue whats wrong. another similar disk  ist detected fine.15:27
* Evilham kindly points at #debianfork15:28
emdete1i doubt a recent linux will run with that. init? not possible. current kernel? doesnt even fit on the disk.15:28
emdete1Evilham: thanks 🙂 probably i am starting to look for debianhistoric?15:29
Evilhamnah, it's interesting, it's just in theory this channel should so people ask for helpwhen they run into trouble15:30
Evilham*is supposed to be bla bla, I can't English today15:30
Evilhamand, from experience, that's harder when there is a lot of chit chat about (mostly) unrelated things; except for the people who just drop in and ask immediately without feeling the room, who tend to be super pushy and demanding15:32
emdete1Evilham: you're right a 1995 notbook isnt trouble but own fault ;)15:34
Evilhamit's sad, but supporting hardware is non trivial and... yes, old hw gets left behind15:35
emdete1i love that box because it comes with an internal powersupply, only cable outside, no big black box. and its quite secure: no usb, no bt, no wifi, nothing with a blob.15:38
rognarak88G'day everybody. Was just reading the IRC log linked on, and I may be way too late now, but in case the conversation is still on...16:27
rognarak88emdete1: Just out of curiosity, what are you going to use this machine for?16:27
rognarak88(I have a few old timers in the basement, and I love them, but sadly they're pretty much useless these days...)16:28
emdete1rognarak88: i just love old computers and play around, to be honest: there will be no real use for it. but hey, maybe i do my gpg over that machine through serial line? who knows. maybe i get paranoid one day...16:44
rognarak88emdete1: Ah blast, I was hoping someone would finally provide me with a potential justification for not throwing out the old machines... :)16:48
rognarak88Anyway, thanks for the info, and good luck with the project. I'll stop being off topic right now and resume silent lurker mode.16:49

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