libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-02-01

cynicfmHey im having problem with apt get after fresh imstallation00:14
cynicfmI unchecked the # in sources list the apt get updare command connects to internet but it jjst wont download anything00:15
cynicfmUpdate* pls help00:15
cynicfmIt says waiting for headers00:15
cynicfm4000B/s network speed00:15
cynicfmWont update ;/00:16
golinuxAre you using in your sources list?00:16
cynicfmYes... The connection speed is very slow though00:17
cynicfm2000 bytes per second00:17
golinuxhttp or https?00:17
cynicfmIll wait till it sync with sources list00:18
golinuxDisconnect and try again.  It's a round-robin of servers and you might have caught on updating00:18
cynicfmWhen i was imstalling devuan by netinst it got stuck in configuring apt as well00:21
cynicfmSame stuff net connectiom is very slow00:22
golinuxAre you wired?00:22
cynicfmI use usb tethering from crapphone00:23
cynicfmSmartphone i mean00:23
golinuxThat's beyond my scope of experience.  Sorry00:23
cynicfmOk no worries00:23
cynicfmHmm perhaps i should try wireless instead00:23
golinuxI don't have one.  Probably never will.  Refuse to play that game.00:23
cynicfmNo idea how to set it up on Debiam though00:24
cynicfmYeah i do have one only to be able to use net on laptop00:24
cynicfmOk tnx ill try to find solutiom00:24
golinuxMe either.  I'm wired all the time.  Very old -fashioned00:24
golinuxJust be sure any firmware is installed if needed00:25
cynicfmOk it was something from my side had to reboot crapphone its ok now :)00:46
golinuxcynicfm: Happy to hear you worked it out00:58
cynicfmI am happy too, you were right about restarting connection00:59
golinuxEnjoy your new Devuan!01:02
tuxd3vhello in sources.list05:50
tuxd3vthe url now is05:50 only05:50
tuxd3vor we have to include /merged like mefore?05:51
tuxd3vmefore -> before :D05:51
tuxd3vg4570n, thanks05:53
tuxd3vits what I have and its working :)05:53
_EvIs it stable/safe to upgrade the kernel to 5.1 (from 4.9)?  New laptop; unsupported Wifi 6 AX200 carrd :/07:39
tuxd3v_Ev, WIFI 6 AX200 is what?07:44
tuxd3v6 WIFI cards?07:45
_EvYea, it's the built in Wifi card on the new Thinkpad P1's.07:45
_EvRequired kernel 5.1 (from what I've read).07:45
tuxd3vdoes you know what is the driver for it?07:46
_EvIntel® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz5.1+iwlwifi-cc-46.3cfab8da.0.tgz07:46
tuxd3vIWLWIFI driver?07:47
_EvI am unsure. Is that the generic compatible driver? I can't use Ethernet nor Wifi on that computer yet. It's a mini Ethernet, I need to purchase.07:50
tuxd3vits present since 5.1+07:52
_EvI'll try and figure out how to upgrade the kernel and then use that package from the link above07:53
tuxd3vseems that iwlwifi needs to be built with support for it in place..07:54
tuxd3vIf I would be you, I would go for a 5.4.x series07:55
tuxd3vintead of 5.107:56
_EvWhen I learn how, will this affect devuan itself? Are things going to break?07:56
tuxd3v5.4 will be a LTS version in future ..07:56
tuxd3vthat is a kernel07:56
tuxd3vand drivers07:57
tuxd3vthe userspace is another thing..07:57
tuxd3vbut in some things it could create noise..07:57
_EvIn other words... things will 100% break?07:57
tuxd3vI don't think so07:57
tuxd3vgo for it! :)07:57
tuxd3vdownload a 5.4.x series kernel07:58
_Ev5.4.16 - here we go!07:58
tuxd3vit will giveyou some trouble to get a good .config file for it tough07:59
tuxd3vstart incrementing it08:00
tuxd3vadding things08:00
tuxd3vcheck your ethernet adapter driver also08:00
tuxd3vyour graphics card also08:01
tuxd3vbecause you need a kernel driver to interface with userspace Mesa driver..08:01
tuxd3vwhat is your graphics card?08:02
tuxd3vfor what it seems you need: 'iwlwifi-cc-46.3cfab8da.0.tgz'08:03
tuxd3vfile from intel site :)08:03
tuxd3vcheck the file inside it : 'README.iwlwifi-cc.ucode'08:04
mrpfilserlibpcap0.8-dev : Depends: libpcap0.8 (= 1.8.1-6) but 1.9.1-2 is to be installed08:05
mrpfilsercan't package or repo maintainers get that warning when they update a package in a repository?08:05
mrpfilserso we don't need this user feedback loop "hey... this package doesn't have a corresponding -dev"08:06
mrpfilserit's a näive question i know but hopefully not a stupid one!08:07
tuxd3v_Ev, you maybe have another intermediate option08:12
_EvAhh I see08:12
tuxd3vmaybe migrating to beowulf08:12
tuxd3vand maybe its there a 5.4 kernel?08:12
tuxd3vI don't know if there are08:12
_EvAlright, I guess I'll go back to SystemD Buster for a few months or so08:12
tuxd3von amd6408:12
mrpfilserdedicate your life to charity. become a monk.  anything08:13
tuxd3vthen you can 'zcat /proc/config.gz' and get your .config file :)08:14
tuxd3vat that time you will be almost there :)08:15
_EvThis laptop will remain on Devuan, but this is an old XPS 15.  I have enough stuff to manage, I don't want to deal with a kernel config file, and learning all about that and modprobes.08:15
_EvGood joke though mrpfilser haha08:16
_EvI'll look into it tuxd3v08:16
tuxd3vmaybe someone can suggest you a nice way to do it..08:16
mrpfilsergetting a kernel config with zcat is trivial, changing it and getting a usable kernel isn't as trivial08:18
mrpfilser"and then you look and find, ten years have got behind you"08:18
tuxd3vindeed, I deleted my 5.5.x .config file, and know... I am in the 10th build or so..08:18
tuxd3veach time closer :)08:19
tuxd3vone more build, and I believe I am right there :)08:19
_Ev^ Makes Gentoo sounds good right about now08:20
tuxd3vwell I have some sort of a Jedi helper here, and he builds it for me08:20
tuxd3vbut I have to configure them by hand first..08:21
_EvI'll give this a shot:
_Ev"Setup 'sudo' so that you can do Administrator level work without being 'root'"   Is it okay if I am root? I can't install sudo.08:30
mrpfilserif you don't hate the idea of 'personal firewalls', this is cool
tuxd3vif beowulf already has a 5.4 kernel, you could get that .config file..08:37
tuxd3vbut I don't know if beowulf for amd64 has a 5.4 kernel..08:37
tuxd3vanyway beowulf will be next devuan :)08:37
tuxd3vzas.. my kernel is building..08:38
mrpfilseri thank tuxd3v for the help with /boot again08:52
tuxd3v_Ev, you have a' 4.19+105+deb10u1~bpo9+1' in ascii-backports08:52
tuxd3vmrpfilser, did you succeded on that?08:52
mrpfilseri did not08:52
mrpfilserbut now i have the right direction to go with device trees i think08:53
tuxd3vwhat is the braker now?08:53
mrpfilserother projects :)08:53
mrpfilseri wake up in the morning and there are a thousand things to do :/08:53
tuxd3v_Ev, but still far away from a 5.4.x08:53
_EvI'm just beginning now. So much going on with work this week.08:54
* _Ev ... will actually being in 20min08:54
* tuxd3v yeah, my kernel is finishing compilation process :908:55
* tuxd3v lets hope for the better..08:57
_EvHaha, I am so busy I can't even get to upgrading the kernel. How long would this process typically take? If I may impose of course.09:10
gouri can't stand systemd any longer - thought that i'll save some admin work by moving from sid to manjaro (stable), but systemd update ruined my system - now i need to pass 'iommu=soft' to boot (old gigabyte mobo), shutdown does end cleanly, systemd-udevd hos my cpu 100%...09:27
gourso, i'm about to abandon systemd once and for all...besides devuan, i consider voidlinux...devuan advantage is that i have to use some 3rd party software for my smartcard reader (eID) which is shiiped only as *.deb. moreover, proprietary apps like viber/zoom (i attend some video chats/conferences monthly) are packaged as *.deb09:29
gouram i right that all the pkgs available in debian are available for devuan as well?09:30
gnarfacegour: yes with some exceptions09:30
gourgnarface: ok, but majority is there, right?09:30
gnarfaceeverything except these09:32
gouron debian i was using sid (to have newer versions of some pkgs), but i assume that in devuan 'sid' is not as stable?09:33
gourgnarface: the list passed well here ;)09:33
gnarfaceeh, i haven't really noticed a difference between sid and ceres09:33
gnarfacedevuan unstable is ceres09:34
gourso, ceres is also ok, good09:34
gourmaybe i should just do a test install on my spare machine (netbook) and see how it goes with ceres09:36
gnarfacei'd say it's worth a try09:36
gnarfaceif sid works on it, ceres will as well09:39
gourok. what about sysvinit vs openrc? i'm really inexperiences in regard? using linux since '99 when i install my first debian, then suse for some years, gentoo, arch, a little of, for the most part sysvinit was always there and one didn't bother to think much about openrc?09:39
gnarfacesome stuff dealing with permissions and startup will be notably different but if you're familiar with how debian worked before systemd then it will seem like all the same familiar stuff09:39
gnarfacei don't use openrc myself, but a few people do09:41
gnarfaceyou can use it if you want09:41
gnarfaceyou might not want to complicate things though09:41
gourok, so sysvinit is a natural one for devuan, similar to runit in void, right?09:43
_Evnatural == default09:43
gourdl-ing devuan image and will try with it first (before voidlinux). if everything goes will, i won't try to install the other one :-)09:45
_EvIs void kernel 5.1+. I'm too busy to learn how to rebuild the kernel. Seriously about to use Buster for a few months.09:46
gour_Ev: afaict, void kernel is 5.409:48
gouri always like debian a lot, but, somehow, never learnt packaging although i did gentoo/arch/rpm...maybe i should learn the art finally09:49
_EvAhh, I'll figure all of this out when I get some type of ethernet adapter. So much work I gotta get back to.09:55
gourat the moment, using gnome, i'm using evolution to handle my contacts/calendars and sync them with android phone (via baikal server), so wonder how to handle it with devuan/xfce? (voidlinux does provide gnome packages)12:44
mrpfilserdevuan does not prescribe your desktop environment for you12:45
gourmrpfilser: hmm, but i do not see gnome as option?12:46
mrpfilseri don't know the gnome desktop environment12:46
mrpfilseris it called mate?12:46
gournope, gnome is GNOME(3)12:47
mrpfilserwould you like i test install evolution on devuan to see if ti work?12:47
gourof course12:48
mrpfilserevolution - groupware suite with mail client and organizer12:48
mrpfilserit does not install here12:48
mrpfilser evolution : Depends: libevolution (>= 3.30.5) but it is not going to be installed12:48
gourdunno, but maybe it is not so systemd-plagued, although i'd prefer gnome-free solution. even xfce's Orage is archived now with no further development12:50
gouranyone knows if thunderbird can handle/sync contacts/calendars?12:50
Oldmossgour: yes, thunderbird can do that12:55
Oldmossthat includes tasks12:56
gnu_srsgour: On Devuan/Beowulf: apt-get install --dry-run evolution, see
gourOldmoss: does it require some add-ons?13:02
gourgnu_srs: thanks13:03
Oldmossgour: Yes, for calendars "lightning" I think it is called. more or less included, choice I think13:06
OldmossTBsync for contacts13:06
Oldmossboth works fine for me13:06
gourgood, will try it soon13:06
gnu_srsgour: This is on Beowulf running slim+xfce413:08
gourgrub install failed (on my netbook install), but that is not unusual...let me fix it via rescue13:16
_EvHaha, I am literally just getting to that upgrade14:21
_Ev20 minutes meants 6 hours, at least :)14:21
mrpfilserwho likes dilbert14:23
_EvWhere do I download the packages from?:   gotit14:29
fsmithred_Ev, packages we fork are at pkgmaster.devuan.org14:35
fsmithredcan't you dowload with apt?14:36
_EvEthernet requires adapter (hard to find; soon), Wi-Fi requires kernel 5.1+, and my Alfa external wifi requires make to install. So, I'm stuck downloading packages to attempt a kernel upgrade. If all else fails, I can use Debian Buster for a few months.14:39
fsmithredmaybe a live iso with newer kernel would help?14:46
_Evfsmithred:  Does this use a higher kernel version number?:  devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_minimal-live.iso14:49
fsmithred_Ev, this one has 5.3 kernel and wireless firmware installed:
fsmithredI also made an unofficial devuan 2.1 with ascii-backports kernel14:50
fsmithredbut that's only 4.1914:50
fsmithredyou can either install the refracta with openbox (refracta is a devuan re-spin) or do a debootstrap install of devuan14:50
fsmithredif you need 5.1 or newer, you should probably use beowulf instead of ascii. beowulf-backports has 5.314:52
_EvGotcha. Alright, thank you for the help. If I manage to upgrade the kernel is it going to break many things?14:53
fsmithreddepends on which suite you're in and which kernel you try14:53
fsmithredI don't know if 5.1 works smoothly in ascii14:53
_EvI was going to go with 5.4.1614:53
fsmithredfrom where?14:54
_EvBeowulf is the latest/upcoming release?    From kernel.org14:54
fsmithredpretty much ready except for installer isos14:54
_EvHmm. That is deff what I am looking for.14:55
fsmithredtry my refracta-oblx iso. At least you can test to see if some stuff works14:55
fsmithredit's beowulf with beowulf-backports kernel14:55
fsmithredwhat wireless hardware do you have?14:55
_EvIntel Wi-Fi 6 AX20014:56
fsmithredmight possibly work out of the box with the oblx iso. firmware-iwlwifi is installed, but I'm not certain if it's new enough14:59
_EvI'll just keep trying to get this driver for external wifi to work. ""ALFA AWUS036H adapter is based on the Realtek RTL8187 chipset""15:04
fsmithredthat should work out of the box, shouldn't it?15:04
_EvHuh, strange.15:05
_EvIt doesn't light up but lsusb reads it15:06
_EvNow I just need to download wicd from packages I suppose15:07
fsmithredif you started with minimal-live you could use setnet.sh15:07
_EvI installed from the DVD iso15:08
mrpfilserwere you the one who stole my alfa adapter15:08
fsmithredif you are downloading packages with web browser (or any way other than using apt) you will find the un-forked packages at debian15:09
fsmithredbut don't use debian repos in sources.list15:09
_Evdpkg is giving me an error:   Media change: please inset the disc labeled 'Devuan GNU/Linux" .....15:21
_EvIs this due to my weird hardware? or is this a thing?15:21
_EvAhh, sorry:
_EvWoah, packages upon packages. I'll just wait for some ethernet conversation cable. Thank you so so much for the guidance fsmithred. I appreciate it/you  ;) !15:25
_EvWill a thunderbolt to 'ethernet' adapter be compatible? Is there any issues here? Or just plug-n-play..15:54
fsmithred_Ev, try the thunderbolt and let us know if it works.16:07
EHeMThe Debian security team has announced limited future security support for binutils and chromium.19:15
EHeMThat almost sounds like they're ending security support for stretch given how often (very) those packages get installed.19:16
EHeMBeowulf seems kind of urgent...19:17
fsmithredEHeM, where is this announcement? Stretch gets LTS until June 2022.19:28
_Evfsmithred: I just tried your refactor* live iso.  I couldn't get external wifi card nor internal working. Not complaining, just informing.19:54
_EvWhen is beowulf due to release-ish?19:55
fsmithredwe're tying up a few loose ends and working on installer isos19:58
fsmithreddid lspci recognize your wireless card?19:59
_Evfsmithred:  I see everything except the wireless card.  Unless it's   "Network Controller: Intel Corporation Device 2723"20:02
fsmithredoh, maybe it doesn't show up there because it's usb?20:03
_EvI meant the built in card. Checking for USB now20:04
_EvNope, neither cards.20:04
fsmithredthere should be one in lspci for wired and one for wireless20:04
fsmithrednetwork controller is probably wireless, and other one probably says ethernet20:05
fsmithredip a20:05
fsmithredwill show your interfaces20:05
_EvThere is a "Ethernet controller"  and also a "network controller"20:05
fsmithredand as root:20:09
fsmithredlsmod | grep iwlwifi20:09
fsmithredare you running the live iso now?20:10
_EvYea. iwlwifi was found20:14
_Evand rtl818720:14
_EvMy external card uses rtl8187  and iwlwifi may cover my internal card. I'm too noob to make it work though.20:14
fsmithredwhat does20:17
fsmithred'ip a' show for interface names?20:17
fsmithredwlan0? wlan1?20:17
fsmithredmake sure wicd prefs shows the right one for default wireless interface20:18
fsmithredand you might need to unload and reload the module20:18
fsmithredmodprobe -r iwlwifi20:18
fsmithredmodprobe -v iwlwifi20:19
fsmithredyou shouldn't really need to do that20:19
_Evlo     qlen    eth020:20
_Evand   group20:20
fsmithred2.  ???20:20
fsmithredno wlan0?20:21
fsmithred2 is eth020:21
_EvI'm only trying my internal card BTW.  I'll check external20:21
_EvOkay got one20:22
_Evcrazy name20:22
fsmithredopen wicd, click on the little triangle in the upper right20:23
_EvIt works20:23
fsmithredgo into preferences and paste that "predictable" number into the box20:23
gourdoes devuan support uefi install?20:25
fsmithredwith the exception of the minimal-live isos20:26
gourok, ta20:26
EHeMfsmithred: Try installing/updating the debian-security-support package with either of those installed.20:28
gourcan devuan boot from the root in lvm without separate /boot partition?20:30
fsmithredgour, that works in ascii, but I haven't been able to get it to work in beowulf20:42
fsmithredalthough maybe I just needed to do what I had to do to get it to work with a separate /boot20:43
fsmithredgrub can't handle new luks format, so root partition must be formatted with -type luks120:43
gourfsmithred: hmm, i'm doing regular install, but didn't work either. now trying with bios/gpt scheme and separate /boot20:43
fsmithredinstaller iso or live iso?20:44
* gour is not doing encryption20:44
fsmithredoh, ok20:44
fsmithredshould be easy, then20:44
gourahh, now i see that, by mistake i dl-ed  devuan_ascii_2.1_i386_dvd-1.iso20:45
fsmithredEHeM, thanks, I see it now. That seems kinda weird.20:50
Jjp137they dropped security support for chromium in stretch at least a few months ago already, according to this DSA:
Jjp137of course there's firefox-esr still if one needs a web browser that generally supports everything, so eh...20:55
fsmithredit's also possible to upgrade to beowulf21:01
Jjp137and that :)21:03
EHeMA number of sites do not work with Firefox (notably the tool "Gerrit").22:26
EHeMI've also similarly read reports of a number of sites not working with Chrome.22:30
EHeMYet the bottom line is there isn't exactly a viable stable at this point...22:31
fsmithredno stable installer isos yet22:33

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