libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2020-03-23

blebhey pals05:10
blebis there a beowulf netinst iso with proprietary intel wifi firmware?05:10
xrogaanoh boy05:28
golinuxbleb: Firmware should be available if needed.05:45
Centurion_Danpreparing for lockdown in NZ in 2 days....06:42
Centurion_DanWe have what is essentially martial law.06:42
xrogaanbtw, if you want more info about that disease, please join ##covid-1906:46
xrogaanIdeally, people should have prepared over the span of several weeks, buying a bit more than necessary.07:02
xrogaangamemode doesn't have a init.d script, only systemd stuff.08:18
xrogaanShould work without systemd in the more recent version, as they fell back to dbus stuff.08:19
xrogaanshould be able to work with elogind, but it needs some change.08:40
bleb2020-03-23 00:45 <golinux> bleb: Firmware should be available if needed.15:08
blebgolinux: it could not be found on the netinst media15:08
blebi ended up installing with a wired connection15:09
blebbut now i need to install the firmware somehow15:09
debdogjust in case someone has a quick answer, it's not really important (to me): regarding su vs. su -. during the update from ascii to beowulf there was a message "If you want to restore behaviour more similar to the previous one you can add 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' in /etc/login.defs."15:12
debdogbut if I add that then I get a message on login "configuration error - unknown item 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH' (notify administrator)15:12
fsmithreddebdog, the message is harmless...15:13
fsmithredand instead of putting it in login.defs...15:13
fsmithredyou can put it in /etc/default/su15:13
fsmithred(create it)15:13
fsmithredor you can put 'export PATH=blah' in /root/.bashrc15:14
fsmithredIf you leave it as is and use 'su' then you have to use full path to commands in any sbin15:15
blebso in /etc/apt/sources.list i did s,deb beowulf main,& non-free,15:16
bleband the same for deb-src (not sure if this is needed)15:16
blebthen i install firmware-iwlwifi15:17
fsmithredonly if you want to download source packages15:17
bleband wicd still says "no wireless networks found"15:17
fsmithredbleb, were you talking about b43 the other day?15:17
blebfsmithred: no15:17
fsmithredoh, right - you jst said iwlwifi15:18
fsmithredlsmod | grep iwlwifi15:18
fsmithredto make sure the module is loaded15:18
blebyup it is15:18
fsmithredis it very new hardware?15:18
blebit's a thinkpad x20115:18
fsmithredno physical on/off switch for the wireless?15:19
fsmithreduse rfkill to check it or turn it on/off15:20
blebthere is a switch, i turned it on and off and theres no change15:21
blebwhat would i do with rfkill?15:21
fsmithredit'll give you the status of wireless and bluetooth15:21
fsmithredand it lets you turn them on or off15:21
fsmithredis your wireless led on or off?15:22
blebhm it says command not found even though i have the man page15:22
blebfsmithred: the led is off15:22
debdogthanks fsmithred. going with your first solution now. but I've made a note on your second one, too, in case I find that more useful in the future15:22
fsmithredyou might need to be root15:22
blebi am15:22
blebapt says rfkill is installed15:23
fsmithreddid you su or 'su -'?15:23
fsmithredthen you'll need to use the full path to the command15:23
fsmithredsee my current conversation with debdog about changes in su15:23
fsmithredit's /usr/sbin/rfkill15:24
blebit says 0 wlan phy0 unblocked unblocked15:26
fsmithredthat means it should be working15:26
fsmithreddo you have another system you could boot to see if it works?15:27
fsmithredcoincidentally, the wireless on my T420 just stopped working about a week ago15:27
blebi could put the hard drive in another computer i guess15:27
fsmithredthat won't test the hardware15:28
bleboh you mean boot another os15:28
fsmithredmaybe live-usb?15:29
fsmithredrfkill gives me the same result on my dead wifi15:29
blebit doesnt work on alpine either15:31
fsmithredwhen was the last time you know it worked?15:32
blebit worked on void about a week ago15:33
GyrosGeierthere are a few laptops with a weird bug that makes them interpret the lid switch as an rfkill15:33
masonfsmithred: Did we determine that our T420 wireless is different?15:33
fsmithredmason, I don't recall comparing15:34
GyrosGeierbut that would show up in rfkill command output15:34
masonBooting, will check.15:34
fsmithredCentrino Advanced-N 6205 (Taylor Peak) (rev 04)15:35
fsmithredI don't know how to test it further15:36
masonHm, I don't see the rev 04 here, I see: 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Advanced-N 6205 [Taylor Peak] (rev 34)15:36
masonfrom lspci15:36
masonAnd from dmesg: [   18.521179] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: Detected Intel(R) Centrino(R) Advanced-N 6205 AGN, REV=0xB015:36
blebnot booting without the ethernet cable, it is stalling at "Configuring networkg interfaces...ifup: waiting for lock on /run/network/ifstate.eth0"15:36
bleboh nvm it's continuing now15:37
masonbleb: That'll eventually time out. If you want it to work, don't have an "auto" clause for it.15:37
fsmithredmason, yeah rev 34 not 0415:37 has replacements for $5-1015:38
masonbleb: Also, FWIW, I'm most recently using Network-Manager to make selecting random wifi networks more trivial. Not that I see new wifi networks lately. :P15:38
GyrosGeierI dimly remember that "allow-hotplug" instead of "auto" would allow configuring in the background15:38
masonfsmithred: You have the firmware package, etc?15:38
fsmithredit was working fine a few weeks ago15:38
fsmithredI'm usually on a wire, but occasionally go to wireless15:38
masonMaybe the hardware is kaput... This is a relatively fresh install of Devuan Beowulf.15:39
masonfsmithred: You didn't accidentally hit the fairly-well-hidden hardware wifi disable switch, did you?15:39
masonfsmithred: It's a subtle thing and not impossible, and hard to debug if you did without realizing it.15:39
blebi'm going to see if i can boot the void linux hard drive that worked a couple days ago15:40
fsmithredum, no I don't have the firmware installed. WTF???15:40
masonfsmithred: Check between your optical bay and eSATA port.15:40
fsmithredyeah, I found that switch.15:40
masonand the firmware: firmware-iwlwifi15:40
fsmithredI don't know where that went.15:40
masonfsmithred: Easy to miss and if it's toggled, it's a nightmare to debug.15:40
fsmithredlooks like I purged that package on 2/2915:41
blebah fuck i forgot i overwrote this hard drive15:43
blebthe wifi led is blinking on netbsd15:44
blebso it must be a software problem causing it not to blink on devuan15:44
masonbleb: Blinking is generally an indication that it's having trouble.15:44
masonbleb: It ought to be solid if it's working.15:45
blebthe wifi led on my x61 is blinking right now as i type this over ssh15:45
masonodd, guess it's different from the T420 - same thing, using it right now, no blinking15:46
blebpoint is, the wifi led did not go on at all when i was booted to beowulf15:46
masonbleb: Sounds like either missing firmware, rfkill, or similar.15:46
blebmason: i installed firmware-iwlwifi15:46
blebmodprobe iwlwifi indicated that it was loaded15:47
fsmithredok, try unloading and reloading the module. That just got mine to scan.15:47
blebrfkill indicated that it was unblocked15:47
masonbleb: Is wpa-supplicant running?15:47
blebon netbsd?15:47
masonsorry, wpa_supplicant15:47
masonOh, thought were were still talking Devuan.15:47
masonBut... Doesn't NetBSD use wpa_supplicant as well?15:47
blebim swapping out the hard drive now15:47
blebso i will boot beowulf again momentarily15:48
blebbut i thought devuan used wicd15:48
masonMaybe with some arbitrary desktop environment, and I'd still expect that to drive wpa_supplicant.15:48
masonNice thing about sticking with wpa_supplicant: your configs are largely the same regardless of OS. I use the same stuff between Devuan and FreeBSD here.15:49
fsmithredI take it back - mine is still down15:49
fsmithredI take it back again - mine is working. Wicd was set for a usb wireless dongle.15:51
masonAh, no wicd here.15:51
masonifupdown or NM only15:51
fsmithredyou wouldn't like doing that with the usb interface15:53
mmlj4halp! I wanna install wireguard, but the docs now say to enable backports if your debian is older than bullseye (testing)... the old instructions apparently evaporated. So is wireguard in a devuan repo somewhere?15:53
fsmithredbeowulf-backports and ceres have wireguard15:54
masonfsmithred: tab complete works. :P15:55
fsmithredoh, that's good. Can't do that in wicd.15:55
fsmithred(but I can copy/paste)15:55
blebok booted back into beowulf15:57
blebno wpa_supplicant, but wicd is running15:57
blebfsmithred: you got your wireless working on your t420?15:58
mmlj4fsmithred: so I'd run beowulf-backports with ascii?15:58
blebok wireless is working16:01
blebi had to enter "wlan0" under "wireless interface" in the preferences for wicd network manager16:02
fsmithredbleb, yeah, I got wireless working16:12
fsmithredmmlj4, you would need to be running beowulf to use beowulf-backports16:12
blebi wonder if any of the beowulf isos have firmware built and and would configure that automatically16:12
bleb<bleb> not booting without the ethernet cable, it is stalling at "Configuring networkg16:12
blebinterfaces...ifup: waiting for lock on /run/network/ifstate.eth0"16:12
blebmason: how would i do that?16:13
bleb<bleb> oh nvm it's continuing now16:13
bleb<mason> bleb: That'll eventually time out. If you want it to work, don't have an "auto" clause for it.16:13
fsmithredbleb, the live isos have firmware pre-installed, and the installer isos will install it if you need it. To avoid installing it, you need to use Expert install16:13
fsmithredexception is some of the broadcom chips that require you to have a network connection to get the software that allows you to have a network connection16:14
blebfsmithred: i did a basic install and firmware was not pre-installed16:14
blebor rather, the netinst did not install it16:15
fsmithredthat's odd16:15
fsmithredis there a /firmware directory on the iso?16:15
blebit asked if i should try to lead it from the installation media, i tried to, and it couldnt find it16:15
fsmithredthat was with latest netinstall iso? (beowulf beta)16:15
masonbleb: Sorry, meeting, I'll be able to read/reply after.16:18
fsmithredbleb, that question is about loading the files from some other external media16:19
fsmithredwhich you shouldn't need to do except for those few broadcom chips16:19
blebso it shouldn't be asking me about it if i have intel wifi16:20
fsmithredit asks everyone16:20
bleboh ok16:20
blebso maybe i could've installed using wifi after all16:21
bleblets see16:22
blebso i get the screen which says "Some of your hardware needs non-free firmware files to operate."16:22
bleb... "The missing firmware files are: iwlwifi-6000-4.ucode"16:22
bleb"If you have such media available now, insert it, and continue."16:23
bleb"Load missing firmware from removable media?"16:23
fsmithredyeah, I always say no to that16:23
blebIsn't iwlwifi about intel wifi not broadcom?16:23
fsmithredany firmware can be loaded at that point16:24
blebso it doesn't actually need it?16:24
blebyet it thinks it needs it?16:24
fsmithredyou don't need to add it then16:24
fsmithredit doesn't really think, it just acts16:24
fsmithredand it is recalcitrant to changes16:24
blebso you're saying if i select "No", i should still be able to do a netinst over wifi?16:25
fsmithredI'm gonna take a short break16:25
fsmithredno, you need to add the firmware before you can get wireless connection16:25
blebright that's what i thought16:25
fsmithredor use one of the live isos16:25
bleb<fsmithred> bleb, the live isos have firmware pre-installed, and the installer isos will install it16:26
blebif you need it. To avoid installing it, you need to use Expert install16:26
blebfsmithred: ok so the netinst iso doesn't have firmware built in16:27
blebbut it _should_ install it automatically?16:27
bleblike i said i went through the basic install and it wasn't installed16:27
blebtrying to figure out if this is a bug i've found16:28
fsmithredpretty sure it is16:30
fsmithredwe talked about this at last dev meeting, but I don't remember exactly what was said16:30
fsmithrednetinstall iso is probably going to get some significant changes16:31
fsmithredyou did regular or expert install?16:32
fsmithredbleb ^^^16:35
fsmithredthe firmware is on the iso. I don't know why the installer can't find it.16:36
blebwell it seems to be working now16:40
blebjust wondering, should i have something about wlan0 in /etc/network/interfaces?16:40
enychrrm,  are there particular things devuan beowulf like tested?16:45
enycI have ascii upgraded to beowulf since ages system16:46
enycwill be back at from tomorrow16:46
enycIiirc i sltill have the udev race conditions at startup with devices / encrypted disk16:46
enycwhich then leads to problems with automounting16:47
enycbut doesn't fail on every boot16:47
enycI'm sure there were some other main issues, but I forget! =)16:47
enycofcoz a 'reinstalled beuwolf' may be differeent16:47
fsmithredbleb, don't configure in /etc/network/interfaces if you're using wicd or other network manager16:49
fsmithredenyc, people are still complaining about intermittent boot delays16:49
fsmithredwith or without encryption16:50
blebi'm guessing if the installer were aware that i use wifi, it wouldn't have put that there?16:52
blebbecause that's what's causing a delay when booting, if the ethernet cable is not plugged in16:52
masonAlright, now I'm back. Reading scrollback.16:53
fsmithredbleb, if your talking about the installed system hanging while it waits for eth0...16:53
fsmithredchange 'allow-hotplug eth0' to 'auto eth0' in /etc/network/interfaces16:54
fsmithredor even 'manual eth0' if you want to bring it up with ifup16:54
fsmithrednot sure if that's right16:54
fsmithrediface eth0 inet manual16:55
fsmithreddon't need 'auto' or 'allow-hotplug' with that16:55
blebin the event that wifi doesnt work, i would like ethernet to work by just plugging in a cable17:00
blebfor that should i use auto?17:00
masonbleb: So, if you're using wicd, I don't know. NM has a notion of managed interfaces, and can ignore interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces easily. Not sure how wicd does it. For interfaces controlled by ifupdown, which is to say, /etc/network/interfaces, you just don't say "auto" and it won't come up. No need for allow-hotplug, which I tend to see as equivalent to auto.17:00
masonbleb: With NM, you can script it to prefer wired when it's available, disabling wifi in that case. There's no good logical switching of this sort with bare ifupdown.17:01
masonAnd again, no clue about wicd.17:01
masonThe one thing I'd recommend considering is driving your wifi interfaces directly through wpa_supplicant. NM and wicd and ifupdown all smooth it over and provide dynamic wpa_supplicant config, but the actual native wpa_supplicant configuration is pretty straightforward and very portable.17:02
blebthat might be good17:04
blebbut the default setup seems to work fine17:04
blebwell, after uncommenting the stuff in /etc/network/interfaces17:05
fsmithredjust use wicd17:06
fsmithredand you can select the wired connection if you want17:07
fsmithredto have it come up when you plug in the cable, you need allow-hotplug17:07
fsmithredand now that I think of it, there's a patch for that to eliminate the delay17:07
blebwhy have the delay to begin with17:09
fsmithredI don't recall the reason it happens17:13
blebso su doesn't give you a root path, but su - moves you to /root17:14
blebis there any command which acts the way su used to17:14
blebi.e. give you a proper root path but leave you in the same directory17:15
fsmithredthere's the patch and somewhat of an explanation17:15
fsmithredfor su, add to /etc/default/su the following:17:15
fsmithredALWAYS_SET_PATH yes17:16
blebok thanks17:16
blebwhy was su changed?17:16
fsmithredit got moved from the shadow source package to util-linux17:16
fsmithrednot that that's an explanation17:17
fsmithredI don't know why they changed the behavior17:17
blebso that would affect all linux distros?17:17
blebdoesn't seem to affect void fwiw17:17
fsmithrednot sure if the change was in debian or upstream17:18
jiefk[p]Hello Devuan users! I encounter an error with eudev package :17:32
jiefk[p](Can anyone point me to a "pastebin"-like site ?17:33
jiefk[p]Setting up eudev (3.2.7-6) ...17:35
jiefk[p]dpkg: error processing package eudev (--configure):17:35
jiefk[p] installed eudev package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 117:35
jiefk[p]Errors were encountered while processing:17:35
jiefk[p] eudev17:35
xrogaaninvoke-rc.d: initscript eudev, action restart failed.18:04
xrogaanjiefk[p]: check the init script18:05
xrogaanand logs18:05
xrogaaninvoke-rc.d is used to do actions with /etc/init.d scripts18:07
xrogaanlike start, stop, reload etc18:07
xrogaanso the daemon couldn't be restarted for some reason, which should be in syslog.18:07
jiefk[p]xrogaan: Thanks for the tip, Will check the log asap18:10
jiefk[p]/var/log/syslog has nothing worst it :(18:12
jiefk[p]I managed to do something before reading your messages, not sure about it to be the best thing to do :
jiefk[p]but now, apt wants to downgrade eudev and libeudev to a past version :
jiefk[p]I have this : root@devuan:~# service eudev stop ; service eudev start18:19
jiefk[p][ ok ] Stopping hot-plug events dispatcher: udevd.18:19
jiefk[p][....] Starting hot-plug events dispatcher: udevdmkdir: cannot create directory ‘/run/sendsigs.omit.d/udevd’: File exists18:19
jiefk[p]I'm still on eudev_3.2.7-6, and now apt won't upgrade to 3.2.9-4 (both versions are on which is on the /var/lib/apt/archives)18:23
jiefk[p]sorry for the nonsense  above :p18:25
jiefk[p]sorry for the noise, eudev for Beowulf IS 3.2.7-6.18:28
bleblooks like most other distros use the util-linux su, but they also have /sbin in the default path, or link it to something that is18:37
blebso now debian is unique in that you can't run "su" followed by e.g. "rfkill"18:38
bleband the whole reason for moving to util-linux was to be more like other distros in the first place18:38
blebbut it had the opposite effect in terms of the user interface18:39
masonbleb: There are lots of little ironies like that.18:41
masonbleb: Examples, UsrMerge is intended to make Linux more like other Unix and Unixlike systems, at the same time that systemd utterly rejects the idea of portability or cross-platform compatibility.18:42
blebactually it sounds like buster is merged-user by default?18:42
masonbleb: #debianfork is a great place to rant about this, so come join us.18:42
masonbleb: Don't think it is yet, but it's an option some folks test.18:42
blebthe devs in OFTC/#debian-devel say it is18:43
masonbleb: If you have that package installed, sure.18:43
xrogaanjiefk[p]: I never got eudev 3.2.918:45
blebclosing my x201 lid starts xscreensaver18:56
blebcan i make it go to sleep instead?18:57
xrogaanjiefk[p]: anyhow, good luck, i'm going to sleep. You might want to ping some devuan people dev team if it's a critical issue of yours.18:57
fsmithredbleb, check power manager settings19:01
fsmithredyou might need lightdm and light-locker for that19:02
blebyeah it was set to lock the screen on lid close19:04
blebi changed it to suspend19:04
fsmithredcheck to make sure it really works19:04
blebit doesn't19:05
blebit turns of the display but doesn't actually suspend19:05
fsmithredthere have been discussions about this on the forum19:05
fsmithredI have not been able to get it to work, but I also didn't try for long.19:06
masonbleb: Oh, weird, I've had that work via the traditional acpi tools. Does suspend work for you? pm-suspend?19:06
masonI know it's not helpful to say "works for me" but it at least indicates that it's possible.19:07
masonIn fact... Someone came into this channel not long ago and I sorted them. Checking scrollback.19:07
masonbleb: 14:33 < mason> tse: I bet you didn't edit /etc/default/acpi-support, so go in there and uncomment lid support, then service acpid restart19:08
blebhm i don't have that file19:08
blebnor do i have pm-suspend19:08
masonhalf a sec - you want both19:09
mason(I seem not to have apt-file installed - addressing that.)19:09
fsmithredand probably acpid19:09
blebok pm-suspend works19:10
fsmithredthere's also acpi-support and acpi-support-base19:10
masonfsmithred: There are competing packages. Half a sec and I'll have a definitive answer.19:10
masonOr... at 92k/sec from, maybe a minute or two.19:10
masonbleb: install acpi-support and it'll pull in the rest you need, then look at /etc/default/acpi-support and restart acpid19:13
blebno luck19:17
fsmithreddoesn't work here, either19:17
fsmithredjust turns off the screen19:18
masonWeird. Well. =cough= "Works for me."19:18
fsmithredyou've tried to ssh in and failed? Or some other test?19:18
fsmithredoh yeah, there should be a moon19:19
masonbleb: You uncommented LID_SLEEP=true and restarted acpid?19:19
blebmason: yes19:20
blebi'll try restarting19:20
masonbleb: And pm-suspend works? That's very odd.19:20
masonbleb: Are you using some kind of desktop environment? Maybe there's some sort of DE-specific power management suite inhibiting the normal tools.19:24
masonMaybe zap xfce4-power-manager if it's installed. Just guessing.19:24
blebit was running19:26
blebbut killing it and restarting acpid didnt help19:26
bleboh wait19:27
blebactually it just worked19:27
masonStrip off the layers of cruft and gunk and the older tools work great.19:28
blebnext thing is, can i get my audio volume buttons working?19:29
masonHrm, XFCE ought to just handle that.19:29
blebif i open pulseaudio volume control, it is stalled at "Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please wait..."19:30
blebchanging the volume in alsamixer works fine19:31
masonOh, PulseAudio. So, that one.19:31
masonThere's a PulseAudio file you want to edit. Will look at scrollback.19:31
masonbleb: /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf19:31
masonbleb: But note that you don't need PulseAudio for much, potentially. Firefox will work with bare ALSA as Debian packages it.19:32
blebi would love to eradicate pulseaudio19:32
blebi need zoom to work though19:32
masonbleb: I don't have it on my living room media center. Very easy to live without.19:32
masonOh, does Zoom require it?19:32
masonTry it without - I don't see pulse hard linked in.19:33
masonI don't have Zoom on a Devuan system to test.19:33
blebapt purge pulseaudio?19:33
masonthere's more than that19:33
masondpkg -l | grep pulse19:34
masonsome bits of it you might have to keep, but the daemon and utilities can go19:34
masonXFCE might object. More reason to not rely on DEs.19:34
bleb"if you are not using systemd, comment out this line"19:34
blebwell well well19:34
furrywolfI hughly recommend bleb's suggestion of purging pulse.  heh.19:35
blebcommenting out the autospawn=no worked19:36
blebthen as long as i have the pulseaudio plugin in my xfce panel, volume keys work19:36
masonThere you go then.19:36
blebit does feel like if devuan is ripping out networkmanager, we should rip out pulseaudio too19:37
blebbut idk if there is any loss of actual functionality if you just use alsa19:37
furrywolfyou do lose some functionality...  for example, the parts where you get random stutters or difficult-to-troubleshoot silence all stop working.19:38
furrywolfalsa doesn't have these basic features of pulse.  :P19:39
blebtwo more things for any xfce users19:39
blebi'm trying to map caps lock to control19:39
blebin the xfce keyboard settings, there is a "change layout option" field19:39
blebit has an entry "Caps Lock" but wtf does that mean19:40
masonbleb: NetworkManager is actually a different group of people, unrelated to systemd/pulseaudio/avahi/etc. FWIW.19:41
blebi see19:41
blebcan we patch whisker menu to not have the new search animation19:53
rowbeebleb: shouldn't be too hard to apt source xfce4-goodies and then apply the patch20:02
blebis it possible to just install an earlier version20:10
blebbecause there isn't actually a patch20:10
blebi added 'deb ascii main' to /etc/apt/sources.list20:22
blebthen did apt update20:23
blebthen apt install xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin=1.6.2-120:23
blebworked :)20:23
blebi hope addding that to sources.list is safe and won't break anything else20:23
nemodoes anyone here happen to know whether acroread is packaged for debian (or just ubuntu) and which package would be best for manual installation on Beowulf?20:23
nemo('cause it does not appear to be in any repos, even non-free, for devuan)20:24
nemo I'm gonna guess this .deb is all there is20:25
nemoadobe seems to have abandoned linux20:25
nemoand regrettably sometimes their PoS is still necessary due to all the garbage they tossed into PDF over the years20:25
fsmithredacroread still exists??20:27
masonfsmithred: It's old and unmaintained, 32-bit only, but it lets you interact with some DRM'd PDFs.20:27
fsmithredI think I had one of those, once20:28
mason50 Years of X-Men suffers from it.20:28
nemofsmithred: it's regrettably usually a necessity if someone provides you a "form pdf"20:40
nemofsmithred: the ones that require things like filling it out and "signing" it (image considered just as good as a cert usually) and saving it to send back20:41
fsmithredyeah, I resort to printer and scanner for those20:42
nemofsmithred: I've done that before yeah, or GIMP20:42
nemodepends. sometimes it works well sometimes not20:42
fsmithredhaven't seen one in a long time20:42
nemofsmithred: this particular one has irritating linked dependent sections20:42
nemofsmithred: so based on stuff I fill out, pages and parts of pages appear/disappear20:42
nemoreally gotta see if we can rework this form as a tiny app - we've done that with some of their other HR stuff20:43
nemocouple of nice friendly web pages with 90% of it pre-filled from the employee database20:43
fsmithredthat sounds good20:43
nemofsmithred: wish I could share you the before/after for the one I hooked up last month, but it's all internal :/20:43
nemofsmithred: but basically pages of PDF and walking from boss to boss replaced with some purty checkboxes the bosses are autonotified of ☺20:44
fsmithredmy bank just redesigned their website, and I wish they'd do it again. Current layout sucks.20:44
fsmithredlots of glitz that takes up most of the space when I'm trying to look at a list of transactions20:45
enycDate last logged on : 15:03:53 - Fri, February 28 (Haven time)20:45
nemofsmithred: that's one thing that frustrates me with the bank interface redesigns20:55
nemofsmithred: suddenly I have to whitelist half a dozen servers for cookies when it just used to be one20:56
nemofsmithred: ditto JS20:56
nemofsmithred: suddenly the browser rendering requires far more resources..20:56
fsmithredyeah, js for facebook and youtube are not appropriate (but they fucking exist on the page.)20:56
nemo adobereader-enu:i386 depends on libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.4).21:25
nemoweird. I thought I had gtk2 on here already21:25
nemoI do...21:26
nemooh. too new eh21:26
nemowait no.21:26
nemoguess I need to unpack the package to see what it's checking for exactly21:26

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