libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-03-24

systemdleteInstalling from the DVD image (on usb stick).  Going OK, but one thing I encountered is that I am installing to a partition that had devuan on it previously (same partition, in fact, as the one used for the netinstall of beowulf).  I chose to erase it, but then it wouldn't save the partitioning scheme.  So I change the type from ext4 to ext2 then back to ext4 and that was enough to convince the partitioner to save my changes.02:39
systemdleteI chose the default package config (but I did uncheck the printer stuff).  It's proceeding now.  I'm still confused by the "install desktop" choice followed by individual choices for xfce etc.  It is not intuitive.  esp since xfce is apparently default but not checked...02:41
systemdleteWe discussed this previously here for ascii (and jessie) so I won't bother you all to try to make sense of it, esp given it is generic debian stuff02:44
systemdleteDuring boot, I noticed that the nvidia drivers had errors.  I don't notice anything particularly wrong, other than there is a kind of "soft" or blurry tone to the desktop.06:08
systemdleteAgain, this is a hardware install from the beowulf desktop ISO (4G beast)06:09
tuxd3vsystemdlete, have you activated composition?06:10
systemdletetuxd3v:  Not so far as I know.07:51
systemdleteI've never had to do that in the past.07:52
systemdlete(did I miss an instruction in the install?)07:52
tuxd3vI was just asking as I tought it that blur was some aliasing in the text, that usually composition solves07:53
tuxd3vjust asked because of that07:53
systemdleteHow would I do that?07:54
gnarfacesystemdlete: did you actually install nvidia drivers?  or is it using the open source ones still?  (the default)07:54
systemdleteUnknown, gnarface.  I took all the defaults during install.07:55
systemdleteI have not performed any updates since install.07:55
tuxd3vNow that gnarface touched in the subject, maybe probably he is right07:55
gnarfacesystemdlete: well, you should definitely do your updates, but if you're used to nvidia's official drivers' behavior on this hardware from some distro that installs them by default like Ubuntu, note that is not what debian or devuan would install by default.  instead it would be nouveau... which is known to have numerous issues07:56
tuxd3vnouveau driver? intead of nvidia proprietary one?07:56
gnarfaceit would be easy to check07:57
systemdleteI don't remember doing this for ascii, but that was many months ago.07:57
gnarfaceyou can't have them both at once07:57
systemdleteHold on, let me switch to the testbox... (about 10 secs, pls)07:57
tuxd3vdoes any one knows what group is kvm working ID? 110?07:59
systemdleteah yes.  I have to add the beowulf repo.  And install IRC client.  Need a few mins...07:59
gnarfacetuxd3v: the system group numbers are chosen at installation time08:00
gnarfacetuxd3v: installation time of each individual program08:00
tuxd3vthe UID?08:00
gnarfaceso they vary if you install stuff in a different order08:00
gnarfacesystem users' UID and GID both, actually08:01
gnarfaceall of them as far as i know08:01
gnarfaceat least most of them as far as i've observed08:01
tuxd3vyes, but usually bellow 1000, I think they are static maybe I should look into it :)08:01
gnarfaceah yes, below 500 for debian, between 500-1000 for redhat, IIRC, users numbers start at 1000 for both i think though?08:02
gnarfacetechnically debian might be 100-50008:02
gnarfacenot sure08:02
gnarfacei only had to know that once08:02
tuxd3vgnarface, yeah redhat 5 or 6 was 500-1000, v7 I think its like devuan08:03
tuxd3vI believe that in redhat5 if you create a normal user it could be 501 for example08:04
tuxd3vwhile in debian at the time...wheezy? it started at 100008:04
tuxd3vsomething like that08:04
gnarfacebut yea if you do a lot of installs by tasksel on the installer disk, you might easily see an illusion that they are numerically standardized down to being assigned specific numbers like the service ports are08:05
tuxd3vyou right08:06
gnarfacebut they're really just chosen by the packages themselves at install time08:06
systemdleteneither nor are resolving now08:13
systemdlete(ping: Temporary failure in name resolution)08:13
systemdleteThis is happening on my workbox as well as my testbox.08:13
systemdleteSo I can't do an update08:14
systemdleteProb. internet congestion08:14
systemdleteEVERYONE on earth is on the Internet these days08:14
gnarface(that's what i get here)08:17
systemdleteok.  I will add that to hosts file for now08:17
gnarfacewell, that's just the website, that won't help apt.  here's what i get for
gnarfaceyou can probably just pick one from that list08:20
systemdleteno release file08:21
systemdleteso it won't update08:22
gnarfaceit should if you add it to the hosts file as well..08:22
gnarfacesome of those mirrors are using name-based virtual hosting08:23
systemdleteadd what to the hosts file please?08:23
systemdleteI added it as an alias08:23
gnarfaceoh, hmmm08:24
systemdleteand www.devuan.org08:24
systemdleteafter that, it seemed to work.  The complaint now is that there is no release file.08:24
systemdleteWhich makes it insecure and that is disabled by default.08:24
gnarfaceyou're using this, right?
systemdleteAll I did was uncomment the lines in the sources.list file08:25
gnarfacepaste your sources.list for me so i can look at it, use or just /msg it to me08:25
systemdleteI don't have a irc client yet.  I'll pastebinit08:26
systemdleteor tpaste if that is available08:26
gnarfacesystemdlete: you could just try running a local dns server.  you don't have to know how to do anything to it to use it for lookups.08:32
gnarfacejust install bind9 and use as your dns server08:33
systemdleteI run dnsmasq usually, but I have one running already on my firewall (ipfire).  The problem here seems to be intermittent outages that last just a few minutes08:33
systemdlete(I'm in California, and we are all locked down here)08:33
gnarfaceyea, exactly, that's why i'm suggesting to take your ISP's obviously overloaded DNS server out of the equation08:33
gnarfaceit's more secure for you that way anyway08:34
gnarfaceand the system load of your own lookups is trivial08:34
systemdleteactually, not using Comcast DNS.  I'm using an alternate one that has dnssec and other stuff08:34
gnarfacewell trivial by modern standards08:34
gnarfacebind9 supports dnssec08:34
systemdleteipfire uses unbound08:34
systemdletesources.list and hosts files, resp08:36
gnarfaceoh man please not a new pastebin08:38
gnarfacecan't you just use
gnarfaceit's got no ads08:38
onefangFor what it is worth, the mirror checkers are showing things are fine, just a couple being slow to update.08:38
systemdletetpaste has no ads that I can see.  It was set up by the adelie people I think.  I like the fact that the urls are short enough to hold in my head08:40
systemdletewhich is very convenient when running back and forth between systems with only one monitor between them08:40
systemdletewithout need for paper...08:41
systemdleteagain, sources.list and /etc/hosts files, resp'ly08:42
systemdleteas it is, i had to sneakernet the files by thumb drive since I don't have another way atm08:44
gnarfacesystemdlete: i see multiple obvious mistakes.  stand by, i'll clean it up for you08:44
systemdletegnarface:  This is the file shipped with the ISO.  All I did was comment out the cdrom lines and uncomment the deb lines for the other repos08:44
systemdleteIf there is an error, I didn't do it!08:44
gnarfaceit is just incomplete, that is all08:45
systemdleteSo hopefully that will be corrected for the next RC?08:45
gnarfacethe hosts file you did screw up by not paying attention to me, but it is easier to type than explain apparently08:45
gnarfacei don't know, i don't work here, fyi08:45
systemdleteHow did I screw up the hosts file?08:46
gnarfacehere, try this hosts file instead
systemdleteso I needed separate entries.  OK.08:46
systemdletebad me08:46
gnarfacethe ip addresses of and don't go to the same place, that's all08:47
gnarfacei tried to explain that but you didn't seem to follow08:47
gnarfaceit might have been my fault08:47
systemdleteYou did say that they are assigned on the fly08:49
gnarfacesystemdlete: i was talking about group id's08:49
gnarfaceseparate conversation08:49
gnarfacehere's a nice cleaned-up sources.list for you is a round robin DNS, the IP you get from that is one of nine different IPs for one of nine different mirrors.08:51
gnarfaceif you look at the comments in your old version, you'll see it actually made this mess because you didn't configure the network at install time08:51
gnarfaceyea, seems to have dynamic ip addresses but they're actually quite static.  there is a fixed number of them and they're not expected to change often.08:51
gnarfacei pasted them all in a pastebin somewhere above08:52
systemdleteI DID configure the network for install, rather than use dhcp08:52
systemdleteBut I did this most recent install from the desktop ISO, not netinstall08:53
gnarfacewhat about the network mirror?  it actually said it was about the mirror itself.  that's why the cdrom was still in there08:53
gnarfaceit was expecting you to continue using the cdrom as your primary apt source...08:53
systemdleteI chose manual net setup.  In fact, the /etc/network/interfaces file was produced by the install process08:54
gnarfaceanyway, like i said, i don't work here.  you can file a bug at, but i'm not sure debian even does this part right...08:54
systemdleteI hear what you are saying, but I pretty much took all the defaults, except the network which I chose to manually configure.  I thought I did everything right becuase there were no issues with the install.08:55
gnarfacea sources.list file is a trivial thing to comprehend, and i just gave you a pristine example of a stock standard template for one08:55
systemdleteOK, thanks, I will proceed to try this again.08:55
gnarfacehmmm. well if you want to explore the situation more, i would recommend trying the same disk, but this time pick expert mode to make sure you get all possible questions asked during install08:55
gnarfaceand then make absolutely sure you pick a network mirror08:56
gnarfaceit would also ask you if you want to include contrib and non-free around then...08:56
systemdleteyeah.  That's it.  I did NOT pick expert mode this time.  I just did the standard install.  Please don't hit me for that.  I simply forgot.08:56
gnarfacei'm not punishing you for it08:57
gnarfacei just haven't done a non-expert mode install for so long i can't be sure what the install even does without expert mode08:57
gnarfacefor that matter, i haven't ever tested the full disk install, even when i was back on debian.  i've always used the netinstall, which *definitely* asks about network mirrors in expert mode, that i can be 100% sure of08:58
systemdleteI did the network install without a problem.  But I couldn't do updates (forgot about adjusting the sources.list file, then it would have proceeded)08:59
gnarfacedon't mistake me trying to warn you that this is probably an old bug nobody in debian or devuan will ever fix for punishment or disparagement08:59
systemdleteSo I decided to try the 4G monster instead08:59
gnarfacewell it would have continued to work if you hadn't commented it out of your sources.list :)09:00
gnarfacei've been there before, exactly where you are09:00
gnarfacei can see it from the outside too09:00
gnarfacesystemdlete: note that the sources.list i supplied you also included contrib.  most the stuff in non-free is of much lower quality than stuff in main (purely incidentally, it seems) and does bad things like assuming you have contrib and the kitchen sink09:05
systemdlete2OK now here on my testbox09:06
systemdlete2back to the original issue about composition...09:06
gnarfacesystemdlete2: so you want to always include contrib if you're including non-free.  but if you know you don't need either, you're better off with just main09:06
gnarfacesystemdlete2: oh, right.  see which video driver you're using:  lsmod |grep ^n -i09:07
gnarface("search the loaded module list for any lines beginning with "N" or "n")09:07
gnarfacenot a nvidia card09:08
gnarfacedual-gpu laptop?09:08
systemdlete2It seems to detect one09:08
systemdlete2no, old, old mainboard09:08
systemdlete2systemdlete special09:08
gnarfaceit's an onboard nvidia gpu?09:08
gnarfacei've seen the like09:08
systemdlete2I think so09:08
systemdlete2hold on09:08
gnarfaceyou have the display actually plugged into the motherboard's video port, not a pci/agp/pcie add-on in a slot, right?09:09
systemdlete2nvidia x server settings is in my menu09:09
systemdlete2sorry... it IS an addon slot09:09
systemdlete2I have the one for the main board also09:10
gnarfacewhat does this tell you? lspci |grep VGA09:10
gnarfacedo you see one or two video cards?  more?09:10
gnarfacemy assumption here is it doesn't look like you expect because it's not using the same drivers.  you've now provided some doubt as to whether it's even the same hardware...09:11
systemdlete201:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 3] (rev a2)09:12
gnarfacejust that one?09:12
gnarfacelemme double check, but i'm pretty sure that's too old for nvidia's current drivers09:12
gnarfaceso that's gonna be one issue09:12
gnarfaceyou might have experienced a regression after they pulled support when your distro did too, because it used to be supported09:13
gnarfaceNV50 family (Tesla)09:15
gnarfaceyea that's ancient09:15
systemdleteIt is not even spec'd in the manual for the board!09:15
gnarfacewell, i'm not sure why you're not getting nouveau loaded by default, but you can force xorg to do it09:15
gnarfacei wouldn't expect magic, but it might work better than the framebuffer driver or whatever you're loading now09:15
systemdleteTrying to recall what I did for ASCII on the testbox...09:16
systemdletemaybe non-free drivers?09:16
systemdletebut I don't remember if that card was installed back then or not09:16
gnarfaceascii might have had old enough nvidia legacy drivers still packaged09:16
gnarfacebut that card is now old enough i think even those legacy drivers are now too old to work with the kernel in beowulf09:16
systemdletethe reason for the card, btw, was to get the HDMI port09:17
systemdletethe card has VGA,HDI, and HDMI09:17
gnarfaceoh, well nouveau won't help you then.  it says right here that tv-out isn't working09:17
systemdletewhereas the board only has VGA and HDI09:17
gnarfacefor the nv50 family, which yours appears to be (
gnarfaceif the onboard is disabled in the bios it probably won't show up to linux, otherwise you should have seen it in the output of lspci09:18
systemdletecan I use something like nmidecode to see what the bios is thinking?09:20
systemdletehold on (switching again)09:21
gnarfaceit is called dmidecode though09:21
gnarfacethat was truly amusing, thank you09:23
gnarfaceReference Designation:   To Be Filled By O.E.M.09:23
gnarfaceType: Video09:23
ErRandirI'm on ASCII and have "NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 310] (rev a2)". It is using nouveau09:23
systemdlete2Just like the manual!09:24
gnarfacesystemdlete2: any chance you can get the latest bios from them still?09:24
systemdlete2I've flashed it.09:24
systemdlete2I am pretty sure I have the latest now09:24
gnarfaceanything else in the output of lspci that looks like it could be it?09:24
systemdlete2no, sadly09:25
gnarfacealright, let's see your Xorg.0.log09:25
systemdlete2Maybe I should go back to the mystery mainboard VGA (ie, remove the card09:25
gnarfaceit might matter to linux, if the bios refuses to post both of them together09:26
gnarfacecheck your bios options too, see if it has a setting09:26
systemdlete2Getting a lot of noise from pastebinit09:26
gnarfacethat's the same link09:27
gnarfaceas the last one09:27
gnarfacedid you mean to post something else?09:27
gnarfaceyou said this was a stock kernel, right?09:30
gnarfaceyou didn't build a custom one?09:30
systemdlete2sorry, a bit slow here09:31
systemdlete2Yes, stock kernel09:31
gnarfacethis log shows it apparently trying the nvidia driver, amongst several others, before settling on the vesa driver????09:31
gnarfacei think that's what is happening09:31
gnarfaceso shit is probably fuzzy because it's in a lower res?09:32
gnarfacei don't know why it's doing that, and you should do your full updates first to make sure it isn't fixed already, but it's easy enough to force it to stick with the nouveau driver with a xorg.conf snippet09:33
systemdlete2yes, def lower res!09:33
gnarfaceyou don't even need the whole config anymore, you just need the stanza that tells it which driver to use09:33
systemdlete2let me try higher res...09:33
gnarfacewell, i should say you don't *necessarily* need the whole config anymore... i've found i still benefit from it especially with dual-screen configurations09:33
systemdlete2actually, this is the highest the UI allows-- 1024x76809:34
gnarfacewell i don't know for sure that card can do better09:34
gnarfacebut i think it should...09:34
gnarfacebut like i said, the vesa driver would probably limit your max res too09:34
gnarfacethe UI is just drawing what xorg sees as possible09:35
systemdlete2I got better results with ascii09:35
gnarface(i assume)09:35
systemdlete2but again, I might have been using the onboard then09:35
gnarfacesome times auto-detection capabilities are inherently regressive for certain users09:35
gnarfacei've experienced it myself09:35
gnarfaceit decided the vesa driver was more appropriate for your hardware09:35
gnarfacebut it's a default you can change easily09:36
systemdlete2So like, it sees that someguy called systemdlete is using the system, and it automatically...09:36
gnarfacei would myself change it09:36
gnarfacetry this09:36
gnarfacerun this command: man nouveau09:36
gnarfacesee there under SYNOPSIS?09:37
gnarfacethat's it09:37
gnarfacethat's all you need in the xorg.conf09:37
gnarfacejust take out the literal ...09:38
gnarfacethere's options below but they're all optiona...09:38
gnarfacein this context, it doesn't matter what you put for devname09:39
gnarfaceit could literally be just about anything09:39
gnarface(it's just what other parts of the config would refer to it as, but since you don't have any other parts to this config it won't matter)09:39
* onefang wathces systemdlete name it "just about anything"09:40
systemdlete2the xorg.conf under /usr/share?09:40
systemdlete2onefang: LOL09:40
gnarfacesystemdlete2: no put it in /etc/X11/09:40
systemdlete2yeah, probably09:40
systemdlete2thre is no xorg.conf in /etc/X1109:41
systemdlete2do I need to run somethig like xorgconfig09:41
systemdlete2or what09:41
gnarfaceno just put it there and restart xorg09:41
gnarfaceno, you're not listening09:41
systemdlete2so copy the one from /usr/share, make the change, restart09:41
gnarfaceyou don't need the whole config anymore09:41
gnarfaceyou're overcomplicating it09:42
gnarfacejust put the device section in09:42
gnarfacethe part from the man page09:42
gnarfaceSection "Device"09:42
gnarfaceto EndSection09:42
gnarfaceNOT the "..."09:42
systemdlete2yes, yes.  I got that09:42
onefangCreate a new /etc/X11/xorg.conf.09:43
systemdlete2What I am seeing is "intel" for driver09:43
gnarfaceno, use "nouveau" for driver09:44
gnarfacewhere are you seeing "intel" ?09:44
systemdlete2in that /usr/share file I gave09:44
gnarfaceignore that09:44
gnarfacei mean it09:44
gnarfaceignore that file09:44
gnarfaceyou are allowed to create a new empty /etc/X11/xorg.conf as root09:45
gnarfacejust use a text file09:45
gnarfaceit's not magic09:45
systemdlete2now I restart09:45
gnarfacegood luck09:46
systemdleteI've murdered it.  The graphical interface is not restarting after I log out09:47
gnarfacesystemdlete: :(  just delete xorg.conf, it's not working apparently.09:47
onefangIs that on logout, but not on reboot?09:48
systemdleteI selected logout09:48
gnarfacehmm, reboot might help but it's a slim chance.  most likely you need a newer kernel.09:48
systemdletegnarface:  When you asked about upgrading the firmware, were you referring to that card or to my mainboard09:49
onefangThe X login manager might have got confused about the sudden change of graphics card, a reboot might help.09:49
gnarfaceis beowulf-backports up?09:49
gnarfacesystemdlete: the mainboard09:49
systemdleteok, just checking09:49
gnarfacesystemdlete: that dmidecode dump you gave me was from the mainboard, right, not the card?09:49
onefangbeowulf-backports exists.09:49
systemdlete"root> dmidecode " (ie, no options)09:50
onefangThere are even packages in it.09:50
systemdleteor "# dmidecode"09:50
systemdleteI forget what the PS1 was (I'm back on my main box again)09:50
systemdleteLooks like I have the latest BIOS (2015)09:54
* systemdlete switches back to testbox09:54
systemdlete2ok, that xorg.conf is gone09:57
systemdlete2 I had to restart to09:58
systemdleteI am sure that the problem is superficial; it's the low resolution.  The system works fine otherwise.09:59
gnarfacesystemdlete: i recommend next you try out the backports kernel.  a newer kernel will have a much newer version of nouveau, which in turn might improve your chances of having working support10:03
systemdleteNV50 is not even listed on the nouveau man page10:03
gnarfacesystemdlete: yea i see that but that may not be actually directly related.  i'm certain nouveau gets updated more often than that man page10:04
systemdleteright.  So how do I get the newer kernel?   I forget the "recipe" (apt options)10:04
gnarfacesystemdlete: (enough more often that it might be worth you asking about this in #nouveau but i was hoping it wouldn't come to that)10:04
gnarfaceok so10:04
gnarfacejust add a source like all the others called beowulf-backports10:04
systemdletethen update, upgrade10:05
gnarfaceno no no10:05
gnarfaceyou don't want to do that10:05
gnarfacejust get the kernel10:05
gnarfaceand maybe mesa10:05
gnarfaceadd "-t beowulf-backports" to all commands10:05
gnarfaceapt-get update, but not the blind apt-get upgrade10:06
gnarfacethough, you should have done a apt-get update && apt-get upgrade already before this10:06
systemdleteright, this sounds familiar now, thanks10:06
systemdleteI did!10:06
systemdleteonly 11 packages10:06
gnarfacesystemdlete: oh, alternately you could try the nvidia-legacy driver, it looks like that is still in beowulf, but a lot of things may not support it so it may not be useful anyway10:31
gnarfacedepends on what you're doing with it probably10:32
gnarfacemaybe the newer kernel will have better luck seeing the onboard card too...10:32
gnarfaceseems unlikely but still possible10:32
systemdlete25.4.0-0.bpo.2-amd64  but nvidia drivers still fail to load upon boot.11:07
systemdlete2sorry for long delay, ate dinner11:07
gnarfacesystemdlete2: nvidia or nouveau?11:11
gnarfacesystemdlete2: you might try the nvidia-legacy driver, i noticed it is still in the beowulf repo11:11
hightower2d/join #talos-workstation11:11
gnarfaceyour card may be too old for even that though, and if not, it may be too old for the programs you want to run anyway11:12
gnarfacebut for science it might be worth the test11:12
systemdlete2tbh, gnarface...11:15
gnarfacejust gonna stick with the vga driver?11:16
systemdlete2this board is a bit weird.  The ethernet port works intermittently.  I have to jiggle the connector until it works.  I put another card in and it was working fine until a little while ago right after a boot.11:16
gnarfacei see11:16
systemdlete2So now it is back on the onboard ethernet port11:16
gnarfaceso the hardware itself is suspect, noted11:17
gnarfaceall i can suggest about that is to check dmesg11:17
gnarfacemaybe there will be some telling errors11:17
gnarfacethere might just be nothing that can be done, but if you ask about the card in #nouveau they might have patches for you to test on a bleeding-edge kernel11:18
gnarface(with the nouveau driver of course... the nvidia people will not offer the same sort of support for the nvidia-legacy driver)11:19
systemdlete2udevd[119]: Error running install command for nvidia11:23
systemdlete2just for full disclosure, adelie also experienced problems with the eth port.  In fact, I added the extra eth port while muddling my way through that install process.11:26
systemdlete2continuing to browse dmesg output11:27
systemdlete2udevd[438]: Error running install command for nvidia11:28
systemdlete2funny, tries it multiple times?11:28
onefangWould help if it told you what that error is.11:28
onefangMaybe the numbers are error codes?11:28
gnarfacecould it be a mundane permissions issue?11:29
systemdlete2permissions issue so soon after installation?  Maybe, but wouldn't that be a bit odd?11:32
gnarfacewell it depends on what is causing that error11:32
gnarfacenvidia official drivers may require xorg be suid root, and for your user to be added to the "video" group by default, for xorg to start11:33
gnarfacethe open-source nouveau drivers afaik do not though, anymore11:34
systemdlete2find shows me that there is only one module for nvidia under /lib/modules for the 4.19.0 kernel, but it is under ethernet11:34
systemdlete2is it called something else for video?11:35
gnarfaceok so to be clear11:35
systemdlete2The 5.4.0 /lib/modules has the same, but also dkms modules for nvidia11:35
gnarfacethe open-source nouveau driver is packaged with the kernel11:35
gnarfacethe closed-source nvidia driver is packaged separately11:35
systemdlete2so I should look for nouveau11:36
gnarfaceyea, and there's another distinction11:36
gnarfacenouveau uses mesa, but nvidia has a built-in opengl implementation instead11:36
gnarfacebad ethernet port i guess11:37
systemdletethat was ME11:37
systemdleteguess what I tried to do?  "modprobe nouveau" -- the screen went blank and that's the last I've heard from the system11:38
systemdletemaybe it needs parameters11:38
gnarfaceyea maybe11:38
gnarfacehard to say11:38
gnarfacedid anything else appear in the Xorg.0.log when that happened?11:39
gnarfacea black screen with a compositing window manager could just be a mesa issue too11:39
gnarfaceyou'll need the mesa from backports as well11:39
systemdleteI wouldn't know -- when I say "blank" I could not get a console login either11:40
systemdleteI'll have to reboot11:40
gnarfacectrl+alt+f2 doesn't help?11:40
systemdleteThe board never gave me many problems until recently.11:41
gnarfacewell it could be dead but at this point i haven't seen proof it's not a software regression11:41
systemdleteI might hook up a separate monitor to pursue the rest of this ... it takes like 8 seconds to switch the monitor between DVI and HDMI11:41
systemdleteI have main box hooked up via HDMI on a USB kvm switch11:42
systemdletetestbox is on completely separate mouse, monitor and kb11:42
systemdleteconnected by VGA though11:42
systemdleteI have an extra monitor which would suffice11:42
systemdleteThis is a two-year old monitor and I've not had any issues with it.11:43
systemdleteeven with the switching, which I realize is not ideal since it has to re-sync to the video cards each time11:43
systemdletenow I cant get either ethernet port to work12:00
gnarfaceis it just loose?  something that could be fixed by hand?12:01
systemdleteHere is something interesting:  The port light is on until the the boot tries to load the nouveau driver12:04
systemdleteI can faithfully repeat this test12:04
systemdleteI'm going to try booting adelie and see if there is any difference.  BTW, adelie gets the higher res12:06
systemdleteThis is a diff monitor though, so final result will be slightly lower12:06
systemdleteyep.  It gets 1280x1024, which is the full res of that monitor.12:08
gnarfaceany way to find out what driver that is using?12:09
systemdletein spades12:09
systemdletelsmod has about 10 lines of output12:09
gnarfacewhat kernel version?12:09
systemdleteit's easy-kernel 5.4.512:09
systemdletenote that the kernel has time64 backported to it, plus some other stuff ported forward (idr what though)12:10
gnarfacedid you try kernel 5.4 on devuan yet?12:10
systemdleteyeah. That's the current one12:10
systemdleteit's 5.4.012:11
systemdletealso, keep in mind that the entire adelie system is musl based12:11
gnarfaceso it works in adelie but not devuan? so it is either patches or configs...12:11
gnarfaceor that mesa build12:11
systemdletemaybe I can hijack the xorg.conf file12:12
systemdleteor parts of it12:12
gnarfaceworth a try12:12
systemdleteI can crossmount the partition and copy it over12:12
systemdleteno xorg.conf on adelie...12:15
systemdletealso no files in xorg.conf.d12:15
systemdletewell, same on devuan12:15
gnarfacemaybe they actually have a patched-up nouveau driver?12:16
gnarfacemaybe it's got fancy fixes not in mainline?12:16
gnarfaceor maybe it is something else12:16
gnarfacelike the mesa version or xorg version...12:16
gnarfacei just don't know12:17
gnarfacemaybe adelie just puts the xorg.conf somewhere else12:17
gnarfaceor maybe it is actually module options or something that is the magic trick12:17
systemdletenope. I just did a find on the whole adelie partition.12:17
systemdleteI forget where the module options are kept.  I looked at the files in /lib/modules on the adelie partition12:19
systemdleteis it under /etc12:19
systemdletethere is a file called nvidia.conf in (adelie) /etc/modules-load.d12:20
systemdleteit just contains "nvidia-drm"12:20
gnarfacein devuan they are in files in /etc/modprobe.d/12:21
gnarfacefiled ending in .conf12:22
systemdleteah, that's it12:22
systemdlete(it's been years...)12:22
systemdletefunny.  there is no /etc/modprobe.d for adelie12:23
systemdletemaybe I should roll back to the 4.19 kernel on devuan beowulf12:24
gnarfacedid you get mesa from backports or not?12:24
systemdleteoh, not yet, no12:24
gnarfacei would say yes, try 4.19 with the backports mesa, next12:24
systemdleteok, but I do see that there are many mesa packages12:26
gnarfacei'm sorry i don't know which you need but you probably need all of them.  and you need to make sure none of the old ones are left behind on your install too12:27
gnarfacesystemdlete: wait.  maybe try the nvidia-legacy driver first because that will take less time?12:28
gnarfacesame rule as mesa applies though, you have to get rid of all traces of any other versions of the nvidia driver12:29
systemdletenetwork problems here again... dns12:32
gnarfacei'm telling you man, use local dns, it's better12:32
systemdleteIt is local; it's on my firewall box12:33
gnarfaceit's not just using your ISP's servers as forwarders for all requests?12:34
systemdleteIt runs a DNS server called unbound.12:34
gnarfaceoh, and that queries root servers?12:34
systemdleteIt works reliably enough.12:34
systemdleteno, it queries whichever DNS servers I choose.  RIght now, I'm using ones at and 3612:35
gnarfaceoh, i see12:35
gnarfacethose might be overloaded12:35
systemdletethose have dnssec12:35
systemdleteI mean, I could run dnsmasq on this box12:36
systemdleteit does some cacheing12:36
systemdleteoh, and whaddayknow.  It already does run dnsmasq12:36
systemdleteI can ping the address that dnsmasq returns, but I can't ping it by dns name12:39
systemdlete( in this case)12:39
systemdleteIt's back yay12:39
gnarfacewait, the root servers don't have dnssec?12:40
gnarfacemy point in recommending using them was just that 1) there is a lot of them, so no load issues 2) they're the default in bind912:41
systemdleteI chose these to avoid tracking by my ISP, or Google, or the like12:42
systemdleteThat was the other reason I chose them12:42
gnarfacesystemdlete: i'm not saying your reasoning for choosing that one was unsound, i'm saying you need more of them though12:56
systemdletenvidia-persistenced failed to start12:57
gnarfacelike, 12 more of them, but 2 would just make a big difference12:57
systemdleteok, so how would I do that?12:57
systemdleteIpfire limits me to just 2 dns servers I think12:57
gnarfacei don't know, like i said it's the default in bind12:58
systemdleteI really think the problem is that, because I'm in California, and everyone in this state is home bound now, and they're trying to enjoy streaming netflix and whatnot, Comcast's network is probably taxed to the hilt12:59
gnarfacethat's very likely also an issue, i'm just straight up telling you how to sidestep it13:00
systemdleteI did a download test a few times over the past few days.  I am getting about 85mbps down, which is a bit off from the 95mbps down I usually get.  But that does nothing as far as actually running networking software (which is kind of most of the software universe)13:00
systemdleteI'll look at setting up bind on my workbox (the testbox gets routed through there) behind the firewall.13:01
gnarfaceyea, that's evidence it's just that dns server... if the network was actually congested you'd be down alot more than 10mbps13:01
systemdleteAnd what I am figuring out is that many clients like browsers do a dns lookup EVERY time they do a fetch -- I think it is a security issue13:02
gnarfaceif the network was congested enough to be bottlenecking your connection to the dns server it would be down to only bytes per second13:02
gnarfacefirefox i think only does the lookup once per run.  you have to restart it to get it to recognize dns name changes13:02
gnarfaceat least it used to be that way...13:03
gnarfacebut that's what dnsmasq is for, limiting those every-time lookups13:03
systemdleteI'm no sort of expert, but I think it has something to do with services that use pools of IP addresses.13:03
gnarfaceand you're already using dnsmasq, so no problem there13:03
gnarfacethe real issue is the system was never meant to be used the way you're using it13:04
gnarfaceyou are supposed to have at least two, preferrably 3 upstream resolvers13:04
gnarfacebind by default uses like 12 or 18 or whatever it is...13:05
gnarface(not actually sure the number but it is more than 2)13:05
gnarfaceyes, there is a huge security issue if you don't trust them13:05
gnarfacethey can lie to you and they can see what you're looking up13:06
gnarfacei really recommend not using google's13:06
systemdleteIt looks like it might take additional servers...13:06
systemdleteso maybe it is possible13:06
gnarfaceit would honestly be dumb for it not to, but i've never used it13:06
systemdleteso the testbox, after installing the backport nvidia packages, is hanging the same way as it did when I tried to force load the nvidia driver13:09
gnarfaceis there nvidia-legacy drivers?13:12
systemdlete(I have added 2 additional DNS resolvers in my IPFire; thank you)13:12
systemdleteI have no idea.  I will need to reboot13:13
systemdleteI tried to install nvidia legacy server, but it fails13:18
systemdleteI see that when I check the dns servers, those 2 I have been using often get errors while the new ones don't.13:22
systemdletebut normally, they do work13:22
systemdleteI'm going to hang it up for now, gnarface.  Thanks again for your help.  I'll come back to this.13:33
gnarfacesystemdlete: sorry we couldn't figure it out.  maybe you could just rob that kernel and all the modules from adelie13:34
systemdleteif only I had the wits for all that13:35
gnarfacewell how is their support?  they might know what makes it so special13:35
systemdleteI can try to inquire.  If I can get a hold of the main project leader, he can be helpful. But this individual is very busy and I try not to interrupt the work they're doing.13:52
systemdleteThe other lead is a bit on the irrascible side.  I avoid that interaction as much as I can.13:52
systemdleteI'm trying harder to be more independent in all of these channels.  But sometimes I get stuck and can't figure out what to do next.13:53
tuxd3vhello all,15:05
tuxd3v New DevuanImage Available to Radaxa RockPi4A:15:05
tuxd3vits the first beta, but it seems prety stable and wel supported, in fact I am amazed by the support level for this great board15:06
tuxd3vhello all,20:44
tuxd3vI need some advice to test sound using only alsa :)20:44
specing$ aplay20:45
tuxd3vspecing, hello, thanks20:46
tuxd3vI run 'aplay -l'20:46
tuxd3vbut I can't settuo audio :(20:46
tuxd3vamixer sayd no sound card found :(20:47
tuxd3vmaybe Ineed a hdmi monitor attached :)21:03
debdognot that I have a clue, tuxd3v, but what kind of computor/device is that?21:04
debdogalso, there is to gather, well, info.
* debdog uspects some $fruitorberryPi21:06
tuxd3vdebdog, you are right, its a sbc board :)21:13
expert975I want to move away from systemd. What init system would you recommend?22:31
fsmithredsysvinit is the default and has been around long enough to be well known22:34
expert975I'll look into it22:36
golinux(an expert has to ask that question?)22:36
expert975Does it do daemon management? I guess I would miss that22:36
expert975golinux: that's how one becomes an expert22:36
tuxd3vexpert975, yes it does daemon management :)22:38
tuxd3vofcourse ;)22:38
fsmithredexpert975, I've been using linux for almost 20 years, and I don't ever need to mess with the init system.22:39
fsmithredexcept to occasionally stop or start a service22:39
expert975Did the systemd philosophy cripple the development of projects it has replaced?22:41
rrqso why do you want to move away from systemd?22:43
expert975Because it's too big to fail22:44
golinuxIf you are not knowledgeable about init systems?22:44
fsmithredit's big and complex enough to sell service contracts, and this is pretty much OT for this channel22:45
expert975golinux: that's exactly the point: I want something simpler so I can learn more about how init systems work22:45
fsmithredis there something in particular you need to do with it?22:45
golinuxBut if this conversation moves to that debate, please take it to #debianfork22:45
fsmithredthere are some simpler init systems you can try22:46
fsmithredcheck forum and mailing list for previous discussions22:46
expert975fsmithred: my usecase is a desktop computer that I use daily22:46
fsmithredstart with sysvinit22:47
fsmithredthen maybe try runit or another in a VM22:47
fsmithredor write your own. I've never done it, but I understand that you can do the bare minimum in a few lines of code.22:47
expert975fsmithred: I might do that on my raspberrypi22:48
fsmithredgood way to learn22:48
fsmithredyou don't have to be afraid of breaking your system22:48
fsmithredmaybe even look forward to doing that22:48
expert975Using make as the init system looks fun23:55

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