libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-05-16

gnarfacespecing: alright, well i *think* the way it is set up, based on other people describing the difference from the gentoo setup, is that sysvinit runs first, executes all the startup scripts, hands off to openrc00:00
gnarface*then hands off to openrc, i meant00:01
gnarfaceso you get openrc's process management but sysvinit's initial startup00:01
gnarfaceat least that's the idea anyway.  i can't claim to have tried it00:01
gnarfacesome people like it more, some people don't00:02
specingHmm, devuan's start-stop-daemon does not support --env?00:25
masonspecing: What do you want --env to do?00:31
specingadd some stuff to the daemon's environment00:40
systemdletedrat.  Still doing it.00:45
specingcommand_user also appears non-functional00:45
systemdletewhat would cause a new login session to start on tty8?00:46
masonspecing: So, for adding to the environment, what I see recommended is populating the environment with a shell script and launching from that.00:47
openbsdt1i123After having devuan since first day, I start to move progressively to slackware. It seems good choice, reliable, fast and efficient system. back to old good days... devuan is a bit slow :(00:50
golinuxGoodbye then00:51
openbsdt1i123thank you for all those years ! greatly.00:53
Xenguymason: I was logged on here intermittently, but are you saying that you find Slackware faster than Debian or Devuan?00:55
XenguyAnd what does "funroll the loops" mean?00:57
openbsdt1i123Slackware is for sure pretty fast.00:57
XenguyI heard good things about it, but I never tried it as it didn't seem to have dependency management.00:58
XenguyAnd Slackware has been around since forever too.00:58
openbsdt1i123there is a saying about slackware... it is surely a good thing to try slackware. Since devuan must follow debian, devuan has to get in this Linux direction.01:00
systemdleteXenguy:  Maybe this?
Xenguythanks systemdlete , will check that out01:03
systemdleteit seems to be a compiler optimization thingy.  Flattens out the loops in code to sequential statements to save time in execution at the expense of more code size01:04
golinuxslack is OT for this channel01:06
XenguyOK, so it's some optimization technique...01:06
XenguyOK, will continue in #debianfork if you're there systemdlete01:06
specingOh my01:11
specingWhy is Devuan's OpenRC from 2011?01:11
golinuxBecause Debian's is.01:11
specingthat's not cool01:11
specingAnd does Debian still pretend to support other inits?01:11
golinuxSupposedly.  Thanks to the init diversity team of Debian and Devuan devs01:13
masonXenguy: No, I was speculating about openbsdt1i123's assertion, but in all honesty I'd be shocked if there was measurable difference. There's AppArmour, but I don't see that mattering.01:53
masonXenguy: Half a sec, had to cower in the cellar for a tornado warning.02:43
masonXenguy: Anyway, an ironic bit is that there's really no different between a lot of Slackware and Devuan. Both use the Debian base utils directly.02:45
Xenguymason: Good to know.  Good luck with the tornado : -)02:47
masonXenguy: It's passed now.02:47
masonNot even rain any more.02:48
masonPower blinked madly but it's gone on east now.02:48
XenguyThe Fickle Finger of Fate02:48
masonAlright, back to bedtime stories for the girls. o/02:48
masonXenguy: Yep!02:48
systemdletemason:  I might just have it now.  Yesterday, I modified the lightdm.conf file.  I restored it.  So far, so good...03:24
systemdleteSorry, I really had made a LOT of changes.  My bad(s).03:24
masonsystemdlete: No worries. Although I'm still stuck on the notion of that resolution change being involved.04:03
systemdletewell, there really IS a resolution change.  It's due to the fact that, when switching between console and X, there is a change of resolution.04:04
masonAh, effect, not cause?04:04
systemdleteI think that is the vbox video drivers simulating the changes.04:04
systemdlete(my theory)04:04
systemdleteIt's been up for over an hour without incident.04:06
* systemdlete crosses fingers04:06
* systemdlete crosses legs, eyes04:06
* systemdlete toes04:06
masonI think moving to another virtualization platform is a good idea regardless.04:06
systemdleteI'm investigatng it.  Thing is, I have to make friends with new tech before I jump on board.  So I do a lot of reading first, then testing, hopefully remembering to do it in a test environment first...04:07
masonI'm the same way. Takes me forever to rely on something new.04:08
systemdleteIt's open source... which means, on the one hand, we should expect high quality software in most cases, but on the other hand, sometimes there are limits to what these things can actually do.  And there's always bugs or other problems.  I wouldn't trade open for the world, but I still like to be thorough.04:36
systemdleteI mean, just look at all the fun we've had today trying to figure out what I'd done.  In this case it was op error, but I am always finding bugs and reporting them.04:37
masonBeing a bug magnet is useful. Makes the world a better place when you report the bugs.04:55
bgstack15it's not about the openness of the source code; it's about the RTFMness of the admin.05:23
bgstack15and completeness of the man pages05:23
systemdleteand the CLARITY of the man pages.  I find many man pages are written very clumsily.05:33
systemdleteSorry, but that has been my experience.  And that goes for Unix as well as Linux.  I find the web-based docs and wikis more useful for anything larger than a command line scripting filter.05:34
onefangThere's lots of badly written docs out there, no matter what the operating system.05:35
systemdleteNo kidding.  But poor writing doesn't end there... anyone read online news?  Some of those writers have no command of English, and most of the work needs an EDITOR badly.05:37
golinuxHumans are getting stupider thanks to the machine05:38
golinuxIt's going to come bite us05:38
systemdleteIf I have to read something 3 times to understand what the writer was trying to say, there is a problem.  I only have this issue with SOME, not all, writing.  So I conclude it is not me.05:38
systemdleteanyway, mason:  I agree with you.  My main contribution is submitting bugs.  And I do my best to be clear, concise, and thorough.  I try to remember to include relevant logs and other media.05:39
systemdleteUnfortuntely, though, despite my most fervid attempts, I find some tracker overlords do not take lightly to having their software criticised by even the most reproducible bugs and crashes.   I am told by one, recently, that since no one else has a problem with their UI, they won't fix it.  Despite it being confusing.05:41
systemdleteOh well.05:41
systemdleteI can only do what I can do, right?05:41
man_in_shackyeah i've seen that attitude too on occasion05:47
man_in_shackas for online news, really depends on what you're reading05:47
systemdletethere are for, example commas but, in the wrong places.05:48
man_in_shackmost traditional news companies have fired a huge chunk of editorial staff and journos to increase profit margins05:48
systemdleteIt's a good thing, otherwise we would no longer get to enjoy their work.  (not)05:48
systemdletebut this is really fork stuff...05:48
golinuxsystemdlete: Like after a conjunction.  Drives me crazy05:50
systemdleteI had English grammar in 10th grade with the most hated teacher in my HS.  Everyone dreaded taking her class.  But I have to admit, after all that, I *finally* understood grammar.05:51
golinuxAnd that you for realizing what channel you weren't on.  LOL!05:51
golinuxI got it in the 4th grade.05:51
systemdleteTaking a second language helps a bit too, though not so much with punctuation.05:51
golinuxLet's put a fork in it05:52
systemdleteOh, I had it in 4th grade also.  And again in other grades. But it was that class that finally put a fork in it for me.05:52
golinuxthat > thank05:52
systemdlete /done05:52
* systemdlete heads to the debianfork channel05:52
man_in_shacki prefer debiansplades, personally05:58
radUpgrade to beowulf was almost flawless. The only thing that didn't work was that chromium had no sound. For some reason pulseaudio got reinstalled during the upgrade, I just removed it and got my sound back. I need to change the sample rate of ALSA though because I hear a tiny gap every few seconds.21:52
radNow I'm trying to upgrade a raspberry installation to beowulf.21:53
radThe sshd config file in beowulf arm64 seems to be quite different from the one that came with ascii raspi3.22:05
gnarfacerad: the ARM images are fairly heavily customized by the volunteers that put them together, while the sshd in the x86/x86_64 images is the stock Debian one22:06
gnarfacerad: (there is also a #devuan-arm channel just fyi)22:07
radIt "UsePAM yes" instead of "no" like it was. It removes "Uselogin no" and "UsePrivilegeSeparation sandbox". Actually that's all the changes I see. Yeah I thought they'd be customized to allow SSH setup of the raspi without a screen. I'll keep the local version.22:08
radoh I'll join that channel and paste my message there. :-) Thank you.22:08
radAh can't join it, needs to be identified and can't do it right now. I'll do it after I finish the setup.22:10
fsmithredthose changes are in the amd64 sshd_config, too22:30
radthe ones I had locally are also in amd64? but somehow are not in arm64 beowulf?22:32
radxfce on beowuld on a raspi3 seems to work just fine. I'll dump an image of my sd card and then try to install drivers for a 3.5 inch screen and I'll have pocket devuan with me at all times hohoho23:11
gnarfacecongrats rad23:27

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