libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2020-07-12

malade_mentalHi, I have a problem with nvidia-legacy-390xx, when I start Xorg, it doesn't find the driver11:25
malade_mental[   474.527] (EE) Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0)11:26
malade_mentallsmod|grep nvidia  tells me that the driver IS loaded11:26
malade_mentalseems that even modprobe can't find the driver, and that the driver is located in the {kernel_modules}/updates/dkms/nvidia-legacy-390xx.ko file11:29
search_socialmalade_mental: are you running kernel 5?11:47
malade_mentalI'm under beowulf, raw install from netinstall iso downloaded this morning11:49
malade_mental(4.19.0-9-amd64 is my kernel version search_social)11:50
malade_mentalalso, that linux-legacy-390xx-driver installs nvidia-persistenced that seems to be incompatible with 390xx11:51
* malade_mental gonna install nvidia driver with the script from ...12:03
gnarfacemalade_mental: no, don't do it, it'll just make a bigger mess.  instead, "apt-get --purge remove" all the nvidia packages that don't match the 390xx legacy version12:39
gnarfacemalade_mental: the nvidia drivers aren't really expertly packaged for debian but often the only issue is that you need to remove a few mismatched versions manually12:40
Guest95236i hade a dhcp server (isc-dhcp-server) on PC_A. I have PC_B that take IP from PC_A. On PC_B i have 2 OS: devuan (hdd1) and and widpws7 (hdd2). I wish PC_A release ip to PC_B when it run devuan but NOT when it run windows7. is it possible? and if yes, how?12:45
gnarfaceGuest95236: i don't know but the docs for isc-dhcp-server should say12:46
gnarfaceGuest95236: it would be a feature of isc-dhcp-server (i suspect you might have to do some shell scripting)12:46
gnarfaceGuest95236: what you're looking to do is change the rules for the lease times to be custom12:47
Guest95236gnarface, the final goal is to avoid window get access to internet. i was thinking to use (in some way nmap from PC_A and "sniff" PC_B to undertand what OS is running on, thne wit iptable, route or route not the PC_B connection to internet). But your idea seems to me smarter than mine. thanks.12:49
gnarfaceGuest95236: (if i recall right, you can key off a number of things, like dns hostname or a client-provided optional string field, but it's typical to use the hardware MAC address12:49
gnarfaceGuest95236: well, it depends on how badly you want to try to stop the windows install from getting to the internet, changing the dhcp rules won't stop the user from providing a static ip... so you might want to also consider some blocking at the firewall... i realize now MAC address keying won't work either if it's the same machine with only one network device12:51
Guest95236gnarface, no no, look: the pc A and B belongs to me in my home office. i just want thant when i boot debina, it can goes to internet but win7 must be not allowed to do.12:52
gnarfaceoh, well if you can be sure nothing will give itself an ip address, then you can probably do this just with isc-dhcp-server customization, yea12:53
Guest95236just to avoid "nasty things" windows can do without my permissions.12:53
gnarfacebut then you could also just not give windows an ip at all, right?12:53
gnarfacewell that could be handled at the dhcp server too though easily12:53
gnarfacebut there'd be no point in even running dhcp on the windows install then12:54
Guest95236gnarface, WTF! so easey i didnt think avout: disable then network card!12:54
Guest95236im getting old and stupid :-(12:54
gnarfaceyea, you can i belive uninstall the ipx and tcp drivers, disable file sharing, etc12:54
gnarfacedon't assign dhcp address to the network device (i think you can't once you uninstall tcp but i'm not sure)12:55
gnarfaceit's been a really long time since i've done any significant amount of windows admin12:55
yetiwindows are overrated...12:56
* yeti only needs air, not light12:57
Guest95236anyway, i dont trusto microsoft OS at all.. i think i must ALSO does something on PC_A to isolate PC_B crom internet...12:57
gnarfaceit would be smart to do so, if pc_a is also the router12:57
gnarfacebut then12:57
gnarfaceyou could run the windows install in qemu and just not even enable networking at the qemu level12:58
gnarfaceand then windows wouldn't even have direct access to the hardware let alone the network, unless you allowed it12:58
gnarfacethat's more work but that is a great solution because then you don't even have to reboot to use windows either12:58
gnarface(though gaming performance would be hampered)12:58
Guest95236gnarface, this is the topology: internet--modem/router--my_dhcp_server_homemade(PC_A)---PC_B12:58
Guest95236i dont play onlyne... im a old, fat guy that still play offline games of 10-15 years ago12:59
gnarfacewell, opengl is a particular sticking point on windows7 in qemu13:00
gnarfacei've been looking into it for a friend and haven't found a way around it13:00
gnarfacebut anything that doesn't rely on opengl would probably work fine13:00
gnarfacethough, these days sometimes wine can be faster13:01
brocashelmwine has really improved in the last two or three years alone13:09
malade_mentalgnarface: there is no thing as messing up my system, I purged all nvidia packages and installed with the nvidia script for 390xx. I'd like to know why there is this error and btw I will use the packaged version when I fin it13:20
gnarfacemalade_mental: are you Guest95236? it might be as simple as nvidia-legacy not supporting the xorg package anymore for all i know13:21
gnarfacemalade_mental: i've had problems with it not supporting other things already13:22
Guest95236gnarface, no,m i am not him13:23
gnarfacemalade_mental: are you saying you have the same issue as Guest95236?13:24
Guest95236im Guest95236 , you ask if malade_mental is me. no, him is not me, i am not him.13:25
gnarfaceGuest95236: there seems to be newer nvidia-legacy drivers in beowulf-backports, it might be worth a try13:25
Guest95236im on still devuna 2.0, still not moved to newer one.13:25
gnarfaceGuest95236: oh, you're still on ascii?  well still try ascii-backports13:26
gnarfaceGuest95236: but i notice also that there seems to be nvidia-legacy 340 and 390 in both13:26
gnarfaceGuest95236: sorry, nevermind that, i got confused13:27
gnarfacemalade_mental: ^ this was all for you13:27
Guest95236gnarface, no prome, i get confused often too on irc :-)13:27
gnarfacemalade_mental: if you're using nvidia-legacy 340, mabye 390 is also worth a shot?13:28
gnarfacemalade_mental: you can see all the releases' packages at pkginfo.devuan.org13:28
malade_mentalgnarface: i use 39014:45
gnarfacemalade_mental: any non-nvidia cards available?14:46
gnarfacemalade_mental: did you try nouveau?14:50
gnarfacemalade_mental: i really feel your pain, but with nvidia there's little you can do other than file a bug report and not hold your breath.  but i would suggest that if all else has failed do some sanity checks, like trying it with the livecd image14:54
malade_mentalmalade_mental: my card is totally incompatible with nouveau =)15:21
malade_mentalmy problem, gnarface is more that I have lots of good experience with my nvidia card, and that now with the right driver becoming "legacy", everything starts to go fucked up15:22
malade_mentalI use a variant of arch w/o systemd (named artix), and had a working configuration, with the nvidia driver from the repos15:23
malade_mentalone update, and everything break down, because nvidia package is no longer 390xx driver but 418* ...15:23
gnarfaceyou sure it's not some simple error like they changed the name to nvidia-legacy for the xorg config?15:28
gnarfacei dunno, i wish i could help but i got nothing15:30
malade_mental~v~ don't worry, I managed to install steam (via flatpak though...) and gonna frag some CT's to chill :P15:32
BjornnI'm on ascii, my sources.list is correct but I get this error when trying to install thunderbird. Notice the path it's trying to download from, thre is a double backslash where it seemingly should not be
refreshguihi i was running earlyoom and it killed some random processes, possibly some screen was slow for a minute, now only mouse moves, clicks dont work, frozen screen. Any way to save my session without losing my open windows?19:01
onefangBjornn: 2a04:4e42:2c::204 isn't the IP of any of our mirrors, I assume it's your IP?19:07 is our DNS round robin, so it gets translated to one of many mirrors.19:07
onefangBTW, I just woke up.  lol19:08
onefangOne of the tests for our mirrors is what is known as URL sanity, it checks multiple slashes like that.  I haven't insisted yet that all mirrors pass that test, but most do.19:09
onefangIs that double slash in your sources.list?19:10
onefang is the results of those tests.19:10
onefangNow I'm wondering if Bjornn managed to read my replies.  lol19:15
fsmithredHe might be in the kitchen19:19
fsmithredthat's where I'm headed19:19
onefangI saw he had aping timeout shortly after I posted, then logged back in.  So might have missed anything before the timeout.19:20
onefangI should eat brekky soon, not hungry yet.19:20
refreshguifsmithred: have you tried modifying your refracta tool(s) to work with runit? currently using antix-runit and it pops up an error...would it be simple for a non-prog like me to fix/commit?19:20
fsmithredrefreshgui, I did it a week or two ago.19:29
fsmithredhad to unpack the deb and put the files in place (for the installer)19:29
fsmithredand had to put a few live-config files in place19:29
fsmithredand it worked19:30
fsmithredso then I made a live-config-runit package that did the same thing19:30
fsmithredand I broke the system19:30
refreshguioh great thanks! ill try it on antix and report back in case you havent already checked19:30
fsmithredand could not get it back to the original state19:30
refreshguiill try it in mxlinux too in due time19:30
refreshguiso it broke now?19:31
fsmithred yeah, I can't make a bootable iso19:32
fsmithredfirst iso worked without live-config at all19:32
fsmithredmostly worked19:32
fsmithredsecond one had all the necessary files and worked19:33
refreshguii guess it wont work if i just add devuan sources.list, install refracta tools and try it in antix/mx then...19:33
fsmithredafter that I tried to do it with live-config-runit and that's when I broke it19:33
fsmithredno, you lose sysvinit with runit, so you can't have live-config-sysvinit and you must have that or equivalent for refractainstaller19:34
fsmithreddownload packages from sourceforge and unpack them or else pull the files from git19:34
refreshguithe other "issue" was that it seemed to require a ton of storage (or ram on a live-session) - moreso than comparable tools on antix and arch/manjaro like archiso/buildiso19:34
refreshguiis it 2 or 3 times the iso size that I need as storage?19:35
fsmithredwhat are you trying to do?19:35
fsmithredrefractasnapthos requires lots of free hard drive space, because it makes a copy of your filesystem before it squashes it19:36
refreshguii was trying to create an iso and burn it, dont remember if refracta creates a directory with all files first (before making iso) but the whole thing was taking more than 4gb ram - was doing it on a live-dvd of devuan 3 beta or something19:37
refreshguiso iso was between 1-1.4gb - do i need 2 or 3 times extra space/ram until i have an iso I can burn?19:38
refreshguior more?19:38
fsmithredyou're trying to make a snapshot while running a live system or an installed system?19:38
refreshguilive  ...sorry caps19:38
fsmithredso you are mounting some storage space and setting a different snapshot_dir and/or work_dir in the config file?19:39
refreshguiim buying new devices with more ram, i hope 8gb will be enough...19:39
refreshguiactually the ram itself was the "storage" though I could use usb drives if i wanted19:40
fsmithredyeah, add a usb for storage19:40
refreshguiive done the same on antix many times...its lighter weight and its snapshot tool as well, perhaps19:41
fsmithredmaybe they figured out how to squash the fileystem directly19:42
refreshguiwith 4gb ram,19:42
fsmithreduntil recently I built my isos on a 2006 athlon X2 with 2G ram.19:42
refreshguithe grass isnt all greener at antix though...there are issues installing jitsi...although zoom installs fine fwiw19:43
fsmithredwould be nice if zoom would update their deb packages to something newer than jessie19:43
refreshguii prefer your tool fsmithred though, because both antix/mx dont want to allow upgrading the kernel (without using a liveusb-kernel-updater from a liveusb itself) for stability reasons19:44
refreshguiis there a forum thread/wikipage/etc tracking where the tool has worked? (ubuntu/debian derivs with systemd? other devuan derivs?)19:46
refreshguii imagine it wouldnt work with pclinuxos or other distro fams?19:46
fsmithredrefreshgui, yeah there's an old thread about that19:48
fsmithredI'll get the link19:48
fsmithredit's worked with a lot of debian-based distros19:48
fsmithredsome require tweaking19:48
fsmithredsorry for all the javascript - not my doing, and I left that forum.
refreshguidev1g thread 2952? (sorry im without gui rn, cant copy paste19:51
refreshguiirssi + links219:51
refreshguity for link19:51
fsmithredoh, maybe it's there, too.19:52
refreshguihmm...i skimmed through the 2952 thread...i dont see any distro names, so its general info at best19:54
fsmithredno, that thread won't help19:55
fsmithredwhat distro you want to try?19:55
refreshguirealistically i just wanted to know if it worked for most/all debian and ubuntu and devuan derivs...19:56
fsmithredbasically, yes19:56
refreshguitrisquel comes to mind...if they can nosystemd, all the better19:56
fsmithredsome versions of ubuntu were missing live-config-sysvinit, I think19:56
brocashelmtrisquel has systemd19:56
brocashelmyou'd break your system trying to remove it19:57
refreshguii know brocashelm but one day perhaps, theres definately some interest for it on their forum over the years19:57
brocashelmi think they are set on keeping it, since it is foss, just badly made19:58
refreshguipureos could be another, though thats mainly debian19:58
brocashelmwhat was your issue with devuan/refracta?19:58
refreshguifsmithred: is it not as simple as adding live-config-sysvinit (or other missing packages) from some devuan or other sources.list?19:59
fsmithredin that case, yes. I put the missing packages up on my old website so they were easily available20:00
refreshguimy old website = tapatalk? like it was registered under your name/control?20:01
refreshguiantix's old forum was also on tapatalk...20:01
fsmithredyeah, I closed the tapatalk forum and haven't used it since they turned orange20:01
fsmithredthe orange wasn't the deal-breaker20:02
refreshguii know that site as well...I see it now has https :)20:02
fsmithredthe "donate to refracta" button that allowed users to donate to tapatalk was the killer feature.20:02
refreshguibrocashelm: one of the issues with devuan was perhaps the lack of https/tls working with apt...20:04
refreshguibecause of round robin system i think, but still unfortunate20:04
refreshguifsmithred: theres been no news about distros working since 2017 (last post on that thread)?20:05
fsmithredfor https you just have to pick a mirror that supports it20:06
refreshguity fsmithred20:06
refreshguii didnt remember seeing that in the thread saying https wasnt working, but ill take your word for it20:06
brocashelmi hate tapatalk20:07
fsmithredrefreshgui, it will most likely work with any debian-based distro20:07
brocashelmrefreshgui: try fsmithred's solution and report back20:07
refreshguigreat then...ill try with some linux-libre distros...some of which are devuan derivs20:07
brocashelmdevuan is as non-systemd as it gets for a debian base20:07
brocashelmyou could try miyo gnu/linux20:08
brocashelmmiyo = make it your own20:08
fsmithredmiyo already uses refracta-tools but usually (always?) includes some non-free firmware20:09
refreshguii know miyo indeed brocashelm  - but he also states not to depend on him on his readmes20:09
refreshguivoyager (?) was the linux libre devuan - its meant for music/multimedia prod20:10
fsmithredyou don't really need to depend on him20:10
fsmithredit's devuan20:10
refreshguiso yeah, ill try refracta on virage if its not been reported as working yet20:11
fsmithredbtw, I just uploaded new installer debs to sourceforge and they are also in ceres repo20:12
refreshguigreat news...are changelogs anywhere? i remember synaptic in devuan not being the most descriptive with package descriptions/no ability to download changelogs either20:13
fsmithredchangelog is on git and on the sf page with the debs20:13
refreshguiis (distro) your project/url too?20:15
fsmithredyeah, that's mine20:15
fsmithredand current20:15
refreshguifsmithred: is ibiblio stale/not current then?20:18
fsmithredrefreshgui, if you're going to make a live-iso from a running live system, will the snapshot be different from the original?20:19
fsmithredibiblio is not current. I still use it as a file/image host sometimes20:19
refreshguiat the very least its a convenient way to create isos with up to date sw, including the kernel, which I cannot update with antix/mx tools20:19
fsmithredpossibly? If it's not going to be different20:20
fsmithredthat won't work20:20
fsmithredunless you run apt udpate && apt full-upgrade20:20
fsmithredand that will use up your ram for sure20:20
refreshguibut I was maintaining my own iso with my own sw/configs for a few months/10-20 consecutive snapshots last year20:20
fsmithredif you have 12-15 GB hard drive space you can spare, install in a VM and use that for making isos20:21
fsmithredmaybe more if you want a really fat desktop20:22
refreshguiim buying 8-16-32gb devices least one will have enough ram20:22
refreshguii find the ram-only solutions "cleaner" for security reasons...20:22
refreshguiusb keys that get put into multiple devices...dont know if they've been compromised, cant reliably checksum them20:23
refreshguiits a little more cleanroom when creating iso images that are supposed to be clean, perhaps for others to use/distribution as well20:23
refreshguii understand not all are that security conscious, but I guess I just see possible secu ssues and try to avoid them if its not too complex. Reproducible builds would be helpful as well, and not too pricey if devuan (or other distro) uses a free CI in the cloud (void dev was telling me how travisCI (?) was free for foss projects )20:29
refreshguiperhaps one of the two compiles could be on a CI, lowering compile costs/time20:30
fsmithredhave you looked at live-sdk?20:32
refreshguiso yeah...dream distro...libre,nosystemd,reproducible and i can refresh my kernels so they are always secure vs all but 0day20:32
fsmithredit's a little more complex to get it up and running, but once you do, builds can be automated20:32
refreshguiive heard of it, not looked into much yet20:33
fsmithredI wrote a howto on the forum, but it might not be accurate at this point20:33
refreshguiill look into it...are you/others still using it? perhaps update the docs?20:34
fsmithredyes, devuan live isos are made with it20:34
fsmithredoh, you might not like it20:35 i guess some derivs use refractasnapshot, but devuan itself doesnt for official isos20:35
fsmithredI just remembered that it needs user to have sudo privs for everything20:35
refreshguimaybe the q is what does it add/do that refractasnapshot doesnt?20:35
refreshguiif its more hassle20:35
fsmithredand if you don't set up nopasswd, it's a pain in the asss20:35
fsmithredit builds a new system from downloaded packages instead of copying a non-virgin system into the iso20:36
refreshguiwhat if you just run it from a su terminal session? all other operations made by live-sdk should run with su/sudo just fine no?20:37
fsmithredyeah, it's possible20:37
refreshguiperhaps closer to the archiso/buildiso tools then20:37
fsmithredI haven't looked at those20:38
fsmithredsimilar in some ways to live-build20:38
fsmithrededit some config files, including some package lists20:39
refreshguiapparently there are similar tools for pclinuxos and gentoo, at the very least...maybe one day there will be a neat metatool that avoids people remembering specifics of each tool, starting with the different tool names!20:39
fsmithredand it does a debootstrap install then chroots to install and configure the system20:39
refreshguisome ubuntu derivs also used a gui tool made by pinguy - pinguy builder20:41
refreshguifsmithred: are you fluent/familiar with live-build? that is the tool they use to make official debian isos, right? but i would have to use another snapshot tool or genisoimage to make iso from the new chroot?20:43
fsmithredI started making live isos with live-build20:47
fsmithredit had another name then20:47
refreshguino worries20:48
refreshguii dont know20:48
fsmithredyeah, it was live-helper. I still have configs from that.20:49
fsmithredI like refractasnapshot better. WYSIWYG20:49
refreshguilive-helper seems eol since 201020:50
fsmithredwith the other tools, you don't know what it looks like until it's done building20:50
refreshguiso you never had glitches in the iso you booted that werent there while you were snapshotting?20:51
refreshguiw/refracta or other tools, really20:51
fsmithreduh, I never said that20:52
fsmithredI've had all kinds of glitches20:52
fsmithredwith ugly, hacky workarounds20:53
refreshguii was trying to remember if the antix tools had at least 1-2 times a glitch, or if the glitches would just naturally pop up on the live-system as I updated/installed/uninstalled stuff... - the latter happened a few times for sure20:53
refreshguiare there any employers/jobs/companies where devuan is used?20:56
fsmithredI don't have any names to give you, but a lot of the original devs are sysadmins20:57
refreshguione of the reasons holding me back from devuan is that it seems on its own, with increasing difficulties i.e. dec2019 systemd debian vote, jaromil mentioning how it was initially an experiment (sorry if misquoting).... i only use antix because mx has a seemingly large user base.20:57
fsmithredthey install devuan for their clients20:58
refreshguii like the project ,its just that distros need a ton of money, or otherwise-employed devs to survive long term20:58
fsmithredwe should move to offtopic20:59
refreshguiyour tool however, seems to work elsewhere, and better, which is why i like it :)20:59
refreshguiah sorry20:59
fsmithred #devuan-offtopic20:59
danica4Hello. I am GLAT agent. Contact me to purchase a license for GNU/Linux ($99 single user, $49 volume).22:12

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