libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-07-30

Weeezyanyone here running opera browser and successfully got video streaming working, ie: twitter videos and others00:07
gnarfaceWeeezy: i'm not, but check to see if it came bundled with a openh264 plugin from cisco and if so, disable it00:08
Weeezyok, I'll check that, thanks gnarface00:09
buZzisnt opera just chrome nowadays?00:20
WeeezyI can't see that it has the cisco driver00:23
Weeezybut I think the problem is from what I read, I may have mispelled that, sorry00:23
paynodebuZz: not opera mini in extreme/mini mode, see
gnarfaceWeeezy: well do you have that installed?  make sure00:28
Weeezyno sign of it gnarface00:36
gnarfaceWeeezy: you might have to get it manually00:48
gnarfaceWeeezy: maybe that opera package was not dependency-aware?  or maybe it's old enough for some of the dependencies to have been renamed...00:49
TemporalBeingQ: has the python3-apt package been added to Devuan? I'm having trouble finding it, and it makes it hard to manage a Devuan system via Ansible without it.05:07
TemporalBeingI don't see it in perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place?05:07
TemporalBeingI am using Beowulf on the system (RPi B)05:08
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwhat was the collabortive textpad devuan used to use and put in the title bar of the irc chats before beowulf?05:13
TemporalBeinggolinux - thanks; now I'm curious why my local install wont' see it05:16
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDnevermind found it05:20
TemporalBeinginterestingly python3-apt is missing from Chimaera (4.0) while it's in Jessie, ASCII, and Beowulf...05:32
paynodethats not the only unusually missing-from-some-releases package05:33
paynodedoes devuan just rely on the debian security tracker, or is there one and ive missed it?05:34
paynodei just solved a mistake in debian secu tracker - netsurf 3.6 is not actually vulnerable (3.2 still is), but i think devuan only has 3.2 in the repos iirc05:36
TemporalBeingpaynode: well, my local system can't find it even though it's suppose to be there; I also can't find it in the package site though the pkginfo database seems to know about it.05:36
paynodeoh nice 3.6 in ascii good05:37
TemporalBeinggoing afk - but I'd like to know how to solve the issue and get python3-apt on the system06:38
filipdevuan_hey i have installed devuan ceres today, is it rolling release??15:20
Jorilfilidevuan_: It maps Debian unstable, so I'd say yes15:23
gnarfacetechnically no, according to upstream but the difference is mostly semantic15:23
gnarfaceit would be slightly more stable in theory than a rolling release but not in any way you're likely to actually notice15:24
kreyrenHow do i measure packet loss on devuan?15:40
gnarfacekreyren: i think there should be counters you can read with netstat somehow15:41
gnarfacekreyren: ping will show you packet loss in real time though15:41
kreyrentrying ping15:42
kreyren50 packets transmitted, 46 received, 8% packet loss, time 9865ms15:43
kreyrengnarface, thanks!15:43
HurgotronI would suggest "mtr" if you want to get an idea where the packets get lost.15:44
brocashelmi just upgraded from chimaera to ceres. one thing i noticed is i'm seeing less visual (xorg) glitches, such as when i'm switching to tty screens. this wasn't an issue with beowulf. i'm also anticipating that abrupt screen freezes (from chimaera) won't be happening again15:44
kreyrenHurgotron, mtr how?15:44
kreyrenmtr -w host ?15:44
Hurgotronshould work, options are up to you :)15:46
kreyrenSeems that ISP's DNS is rounting through bad relay15:47
HurgotronI guess that's more like rate limiting of the probes at that router, since the target doesn't show any loss.15:48
kreyren does now15:49
kreyrenchanged DNS on
HurgotronIIf you have drops on the route, every host past the point dropping packets should show loss too.15:49
Hurgotronyou seem to have loss all the way, so it's probably your uplink.15:50
kreyrenHurgotron, uplink meaning ISP?15:51
Hurgotrontry option -n so you do't have DNS lookups interfering15:51
kreyren0% loss now15:51
gnarfaceif it's just an overloaded ISP DNS server (typical) that's easy to fix with a locally installed copy of bind9 or dnsmasq15:52
gnarfacewhich i would strongly recommend for security purposes anyway15:52
kreyrengnarface, what's bind9 or dnsmasq ?15:52
Hurgotronlocal (caching) dns server15:53
gnarfacethey're just both DNS servers of slightly different intended scope15:53
kreyrenah i see15:53
gnarfacebind9 is meant to be an ISP grade daemon, and dnsmasq is intended more for a solely caching setup on a small home LAN, but they will both generally be able to serve both purposes15:54
TemporalBeingcan anyone help me with python3-apt on Beowulf? (apt-get update && apt-get install script on
kreyrenCreated will implement15:55
kreyrenTemporalBeing, provide different pastebin since that one requires javascript15:56
TemporalBeingkreyren: site suggestion?15:56 for example15:56
kreyrenor ix15:56
kreyrenix () { curl -n -F 'f:1=<-' ; }15:57
kreyrenExample: printf "hello/n" | ix results in
kreyrenTemporalBeing, and why do you need that package?16:00
gnarfacekreyren: why'd you make a gitlab issue for that?16:00
kreyrengnarface, github and i use it for tracking of my issues so that it can be used for a reference by a general public and for me to organize my things ^-^16:01
TemporalBeing@kreyren - using Ansible to manage the system and want to use the `apt` tooling in Ansible which requires Python interaction with Apt. python3-apt / python-apt manage that interface, but it's a package that's installed via Apt and not Pip.16:01
JorilTemporalBeing: I have a Beowulf installation here, with python3-apt installed... Maybe you should be using as apt server?16:01
TemporalBeing show's is suppose to be available but my system can't find it16:01
kreyrenTemporalBeing, seems like corrupted cache or something alike to me -> apt clean && apt update16:02
kreyrenif that fixes it i would check a hardware health16:02
TemporalBeingno, clean & update didn't fix16:05
TemporalBeingtrying adding `` to the mix16:05
TemporalBeingthat doesn't solve it either16:05
* kreyren is trying to sandbox devuan/beowulf to check himself16:06
TemporalBeing is pretty bare16:06
kreyrencan you show your sources list?16:07
TemporalBeingthe package doesn't exist there16:07
kreyrenapt-cache policy python3-apt ?16:07
gnarfaceTemporalBeing: you should only be using in your sources.list16:07
gnarfaceTemporalBeing: most the packages are served from debian servers via redirect by aprolla, so no, you would not expect to see most the packages on the devuan servers themselves, only the forked ones16:08
TemporalBeinggnarface - RPi image was configured with; certainly happy to use something else if it solves the issue16:08
TemporalBeinggnarface +116:08
gnarfaceTemporalBeing: i'm guessing that one is out of date.  also make sure it's not (a common mistake)16:09
gnarfaceTemporalBeing: see, the way it works is they didn't fork the entire distro.  they just forked a few packages and do the rest with http redirect magic16:10
TemporalBeingthat's probably what it is16:10
gnarfaceyou wouldn't be the first one to make that mistake16:10
* kreyren is still compiling devuan/beowulf because he forgot that he didn't cache this step yet~ eta 3 min +-16:11
* kreyren hopes 3 min~16:11
TemporalBeingRPi image might need to be updated - I'm using eadf5b2e94e9953c80467ea3f2e8c1b962e6459a7f712d8bf817e4bb56c3ea64  devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_armel_rpi1_0.3.img.xz16:12
TemporalBeing and went from there.16:12
kreyrenTemporalBeing, probably whole system has to be updated if you were using a broken mirror :p16:12
TemporalBeingthat's fine - it's just a base image still; have done nothing but configure the static IP and setup a user16:13
TemporalBeingtrying to manage entirely with Ansible16:13
kreyrenIs ansible good though? I am currently managing it using custom busybox runtime
TemporalBeingone of two I'm using for a home server - DNS, DHCP, etc; the other (RPi2B) is running Ubuntu 20.04 for the moment16:14
TemporalBeingAnsible's great16:14
kreyrenare you bootstrapping the dependencies or ?16:14
TemporalBeingmanual bootstrap of config; so just install a few things and then turn it over to ansible16:15
kreyrenin case someone gains access to libraries and stuff~16:15
TemporalBeingI proof in a Vagrant VM environment16:15
kreyreni see O.o16:15
TemporalBeingand then push to the devices as my prod environment16:15
TemporalBeingThe last install on this RPi ran for many years and kind of ended up in a hackish state making it hard to upgrade stuff, especially when the distro couldn't be updated any more.16:16
TemporalBeingso switched to managing everything with Ansible so I can easily rebuild :)16:16
TemporalBeingthat said, most of my roles are my own16:16
kreyrenHmm O.o16:17
TemporalBeingokay - changing up from `devuan` to `merged` solved it16:18
TemporalBeing:D thanks16:18
kreyrennp ^-^16:19
kreyrenTemporalBeing, i would recommend adding a comment in the /etc/sources.list about the usage of merged over devuan in case there is more sysadmins or reminder for you16:20
TemporalBeingkreygen: perhaps a file on would be good too? A simple README at
TemporalBeingsorry :(16:22
kreyrenTemporalBeing, seems like a good idea to me16:22
kreyrenalso FWIW works in my sandbox
kreyrentoo late now but meh16:26
beagleburtG'day from New Zealand everyone. Recently reinstalled Devuan ASCII, (as BEOWULF had too many dependency issues when I was trying to install programs). Now - when I plug in a USB-connected CF card - (Compact Flash from my camera) it refuses to mount - insufficient privileges. On my last install of ASCII, I would just plug it in & it would appear on my Desktop, mounted. What do I need to do to open it? By the way: I am using '17:00
beagleburtsudo' to gain Administrator rights.17:00
bufzi_If anyone is familiar with adjusting systemd only scripts to also support sysvinit17:06
bufzi_I made a post here:17:06
fsmithredudisks2 gvfs policykit-1-gnome17:06
fsmithredbeagleburt, ^^^17:06
fsmithredmaybe gvfs-backends17:06
fsmithredmaybe something else I'm forgetting17:06
beagleburtfsmithred, TKU! I will go & check it out now... :-)17:07
beagleburtfsmithred, 'Command not found' for all four suggestions. Tried 'apropos' but got 'nothing appropriate'. I am wondering if I need to be in a USB group or something? Here are the groups that I am a member of: beagleburt@dot:~$ id18:12
beagleburtuid=1000(beagleburt) gid=1000(beagleburt) groups=1000(beagleburt),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),103(netdev),108(lpadmin),111(scanner)18:12
beagleburtfsmithred, How do I check/edit the groups I am in?18:13
beagleburtfsmithred, oops! ^^^edit^^^18:14
masonbeagleburt: Check with "id", edit with "vigr" are my favourites.18:21
beagleburtmason, TKU I'll be right back...18:22
beagleburtmason, id uid=1000(beagleburt) gid=1000(beagleburt) groups=1000(beagleburt),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),103(netdev),108(lpadmin),111(scanner) NO 'USB' (as superuser - I use 'sudo' - GROUP?18:32
masonbeagleburt: I might have missed earlier discussion. Are you expecting there to be a USB group?18:33
beagleburtmason, When I plug in my CF-card (USB) I get a message saying that I am not authourised to open it?18:33
beagleburtmason, ^^^Yes18:34
masonAh. So, when you plug it is, dmesg | tail and see what device it is, and look at the permissions/ownership of that device.18:34
beagleburtok How do I change the permissions/ownership of the device?18:35
masonbeagleburt: You probably don't want to - knowing what it's set to, you probably want to amend your group affiliation. But what's the device come up as?18:35
masonbeagleburt: If you do need to change the device ownership, you can do that with a udev rule, but that can be perilous if things like udisks2 are installed.18:36
masonI don't see that on a Devuan desktop here I just checked, but I don't run what qualifies as a desktop stack anywhere.18:37
mason...and I see udisks2 packaged.18:37
masonbeagleburt: If you want to do what I do, insert your device and have root mount it up however you want it mounted.18:37
beagleburtmason, It has been about 12x hours+ since I plugged in my (USB) CF-card, & then I gave it to a friend to try on his computer...he said he will email me the photos on I do not have the device at the moment. I do not have a Root user, I just use 'sudo' & when I plug it in, I do not get the opportunity to enter my password?18:41
masonbeagleburt: There has to be something looking for device insertions that has a notion of interacting with users in some way. This is often udisks2, which probably does what you want but if ugly, inflexible, and in many ways generally bad.18:43
masonbeagleburt: Lacking something like udisks2, you can make what you want happen without prompting with a straight udev rule, but I'm not sure what you're running or what would make for the best solution for you.18:43
masonbeagleburt: If you could summarize, that might help.18:44
beagleburtRunning Devuan ASCII ( recently reinstalled after BEOWULF failed to download heaps of programs via 'Synaptic'). My previous installation of ASCII worked fine - when I plugged in my USB-connected CF-card, it appeared on my desktop immediately...ready to open. But now I get a message saying I have insuffient priviledges - with no field to enter my password...just the message?18:49
beagleburtUsing 'sudo'18:50
beagleburtmason, ^^^18:50
masonbeagleburt: Ah, I don't have any ASCII around to check that. Anything about it in /var/log/syslog or dmesg output?18:52
beagleburtmason, TKU -  ok - give me a while to look back over those files....18:53
fsmithredbeagleburt, those were packages, not commands18:55
fsmithredmake sure they are installed18:55
fsmithredgvfs policykit-1-gnome udisks218:56
beagleburtfsmithred, beagleburt@dot:~$ sudo apt-get install gvfs policykit-1-gnome udisks219:03
beagleburtReading package lists... Done19:03
beagleburtBuilding dependency tree19:03
beagleburtReading state information... Done19:03
beagleburtgvfs is already the newest version (1.30.4-1).19:03
beagleburtgvfs set to manually installed.19:03
beagleburtpolicykit-1-gnome is already the newest version (0.105-6).19:03
beagleburtpolicykit-1-gnome set to manually installed.19:03
beagleburtudisks2 is already the newest version (2.1.8-1+devuan2).19:03
beagleburtudisks2 set to manually installed.19:03
beagleburt0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 41 not upgraded.19:03
fsmithredmaybe add gvfs-backends if it's not already installed19:04
fsmithredwhat desktop did you install?19:05
masonHrm, unusual for those to need to be manually installed. I'd want to make sure the appropriate metapackage is installed, as that'll pull in all relevant subpackages. xfce4 on Beowulf, not sure on ASCII19:05
masonor... yeah, could be something else19:05
fsmithredthey're already there19:05
beagleburtfsmithred,  Ooohhh! I got told off for posting too much stuff - 'flood'. How do I post large amounts of data? (The /var/log/syslog data on the USB-device is very large... + How do I read the dmesg output?19:08
beagleburtmason,  gvfs-backends is already the newest version (1.30.4-1).19:08
beagleburtgvfs-backends set to manually installed.19:08
beagleburtfsmithred, TKU19:08
fsmithreddmesg | tail19:08
fsmithredright after you plug it in19:09
fsmithredthat will tell you the device19:09
fsmithredin case you want to mount it manually19:09
fsmithredwhat destkop, what file manager, what happened that seemed odd during installation?19:10
fsmithredhad to be something. This normally works out of the box.19:10
beagleburtfsmithred,  I can't...I have lent the CF-card + USB card-reader to a friend who is going to try it on his Windoze machine & email me the photos...19:10
beagleburtfsmithred, Mate; Caja; & installation went smoothly19:11
fsmithredyou have only mate, or do you have mate and xfce both installed?19:12
fsmithredwhat about a plain usb thumb drive - does that show up on the desktop?19:13
fsmithredneed food. back soon.19:15
beagleburtfsmithred, I think I have both mate & xfce? I will log out & try relogging in xfce. Just tried another USB (thumb-drive) & got same message: "Unable to mount devuan_2.0.0-rc_amd64_n" & "Not authorized to perform operation." I will see you soon - TKU  & 'b'ye!19:31
fsmithredI was recently talking with someone who had problems with mate and xfce, and I thought it was on the forum, but I can't find it with the search function.19:46
beagleburtfsmithred, I logged in with Xfce & plugged a USB thumb-drive in, but I got: "Removable volume. Not mounted yet" When I Right-clicked on icon, I got same old message as before: "Failed to mount...blah, blah, blah. Not authorized to perform operation."19:58
beagleburtfsmithred, With my previous ASCII install I used Mate almost exclusively, & had no mounting problems?19:59
fsmithredand xfce was installed on that system, too?20:00
beagleburtI think that it is the default when installing?20:00
gnarfaceas close as it gets anyway20:01
gnarfaceis there some group membership this needs too?20:01
fsmithredplugdev, but he's in it already20:02
gnarfaceoh, hmm.20:02
fsmithredyou have elogind or consolekit?20:03
gnarfacebeagleburt: oh yea, make sure you have the right one of these, and only one of them^20:03
beagleburtgnarface, ok How do I test which one I have?20:04
fsmithreddpkg -l | grep elogind20:04
fsmithreddpkg -l | grep consolekit20:04
gnarfaceone other thing i can think of, is recently i've noticed some windows-formatted USB keys come with the mount point pre-set to not readable, looks like the same error but you can just fix it manually once with chmod20:04
beagleburtgnarface, tku20:04
gnarfacethe kde gui was actually succeeding at mounting it, but would still give the same error because it would try to check the mount success by reading from the filesystem underneath it20:05
gnarfacebut if you opened the mount path in a shell you could easily see it mounted successfully, just with borked permissions20:05
gnarfaceanyway, dunno if that's what is happening with you, beagleburt, but it's something easy to check on20:06
fsmithredthey did that to make up for decades of auto-running whatever you plug in?20:06
gnarfacei'm not actually sure, i got the impression that it was actually a lame attempt to make up for lack of proper access barriers between user's files20:07
gnarfacelike a checkbox in the disk formatting utility that they chagned from defaulting to off to defaulting to on20:07
gnarfacei heard about this from someone else, after seeing the results on the usb key... haven't seen the windows disk utility myself20:08
gnarfaceit very well may be something easy to avoid if you're paying attention, but microsoft designs their default behaviors assuming you are not20:08
beagleburtfsmithred, I think I have BOTH elogind & consolekit installed???? How do I use < >???20:14
fsmithredgo to that website first20:14
fsmithredgive us the url of your paste20:15
gnarfacebeagleburt: it would not be an uncommon situation.  lots of people are running into this glitch.  all you have to do is remove the one that doesn't belong20:15
gnarfacebeagleburt: (the README should have mentioned which ones go with which login managers - you need to choose one as a set with your intended graphical login and window manager)20:16
fsmithredget rid of consolekit20:16
gnarfaceor if fsmithred actually knows, just do what he said^20:16
fsmithredyeah, I just checked the release notes20:16
fsmithredto make sure I got it right20:16
fsmithredxfce and cinnamon can use either20:16
fsmithredall the rest only work with elogind20:17
beagleburtoh I see TKU.
fsmithredyeah, you should get the backend and gobject packages for elogind when you get rid of consolekit20:18
fsmithredyou already have libpam-elogind, which is good20:18
fsmithredapt remove consolekit20:19
fsmithredsee what happens20:19
gnarfacebeagleburt: it's ok, you can just install those things again afterwards.20:32
gnarfacebeagleburt: (the ones you actually need that is)20:32
fsmithredyou can re-install libreoffice. That's not a problem.20:32
fsmithredslim got removed. Did lightdm get installed? I didn't see it.20:32
beagleburtfsmithred, gnarface I am pretty sure that I installed BOTH Slim & Lightdm?
gnarfacebeagleburt: don't check like that, check like this: dpkg -l |grep 'slim\|lightdm'20:45
beagleburtgnarface, OK TKU!20:45
gnarfacebeagleburt: lightdm gave my users fewer problems, ymmv20:46
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure lightdm20:49
fsmithredmay not need that20:49
beagleburtfsmithred, gnarface
gnarfacebeagleburt: looks normal to me20:52
beagleburtfsmithred, "may not need that" (what "that"?)20:52
gnarfacebeagleburt: er um... i mean it looks normal aside from the fact that those are the wrong versions....20:52
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure lightdm20:52
gnarfacebeagleburt: you said this was a beowulf install, or ascii?20:52
fsmithredit's right version20:53
gnarfaceoh, that's normal then20:53
gnarfacei'm seeing this on beowulf:
beagleburtfsmithred, Do you want me to use dpkg-reconfigure lightdm or not? /// gnarface: ascii20:54
gnarfacebeagleburt: it should be safe either way20:54
fsmithredsame here on beowulf, gnarface20:54
fsmithredyou may need to reboot to get the polkit changes to work20:58
beagleburtfsmithred, gnarface  ok I have set lightdm as my default login manager & I will now reboot...See you later...TKU!!!21:01
gnarfacegood luck beagleburt21:01
brocashelmi found life a lot easier just by going straight into tty to launch x21:08
fsmithreddo you have clicky-mount of removable drives?21:09
brocashelmnot really21:09
golinuxI mpunt my drives via thunar21:09
golinuxHahaha  . . . mount21:10
golinuxNone of that is on my desktop anymore21:10
brocashelmi had to do it the manual way with upstart on mintbuntu21:11
brocashelmeven for fucking ripping a cd/dvd21:11
brocashelmglad that's over with21:11
brocashelmbut, i go straight to tty, log in, type startx, and xfce is launched. EZ21:12
brocashelmrunit is blazing fast at it, too21:13
fsmithredhe should be back by now21:14
fsmithredI am not in the mood for shit to not work21:15
fsmithredI am in the mood to add policykit to the banned packages list21:16
brocashelmit's understandable21:18
gnarfacei prefer doing it manually myself, just because i'm paranoid21:19
fsmithredthe backlash to actually doing it would be unbearable21:19
gnarfaceeven if this shit all worked all the time the way it was supposed to, i'd uninstall it on machines i only use myself21:20
fsmithredeven though I know I could find half a dozen supporters in no time at all21:20
* debdog 's got qemu troubles23:56
debdogI have not used qemu since I've updated to beowulf. now, no matter what I try to run I only get:23:57
debdogVNC server running on ::1:590023:57
debdogand then nothing else happens until I ctrl-c it23:57
debdog$ alias | grep qemu23:58
debdogmaybe the qemu packages changed from ASCII to beowulf and I have to install other ones?23:59

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