libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2020-09-28

flingWhat is that command for editing runlevels05:42
fling[X] [ ] one05:42
flingIs there a good guide for munin?05:43
gnarfacenot really, but it's not a complex beast05:43
gnarfacethe runlevel editor you're thinking of was ntsysv05:43
gnarface(i think it might be available but it was a redhat thing)05:43
onefangsysv-rc-conf might do what you want, but I don't know what you want to do.05:44
gnarfacethe howto information that is on the munin wiki and i think might also bundled with it was kinda dodgy and incomplete but you generally could patch together the rest of the information you need by reading the plugin files themselves05:46
gnarfacei guess it has been a while since i've looked into it, but last i checked they were moving from trac to something else05:47
gnarfaceso that might have harmed the already marginal state of the community-contributed documentation05:47
flingonefang: sysv-rc-conf works!06:06
flinggnarface: am I supposed to install apache?06:06
gnarfacefling: for what?  oh, for munin... well you need to host the graphs somewhere06:09
gnarfacefling: i don't think apache was a strict requirement but i recall the documentation may have only explained the setup assuming apache06:09
* fling found
gnarfacefling: if it is for debian wheezy or earlier, probably nothing has changed06:10
gnarfaceand after wheezy i would imagine the part that changes was the startup/shutdown parts06:10
gnarfacethe only part*06:10
flingdon't I need cgi?06:11
gnarfacewell, broadly, yes06:11
gnarfacenobody calls it that anymore06:11
flinglooks like I need it for zoom06:12
gnarfaceoh you mean the javascript part?06:12
flingbut I want to generate graphs by cron anyway06:12
flingno, I want the images :D06:12
gnarfacenobody ever really called that cgi, but yea you need an insecure javascript hook if you want graphs to be arbitrarily zoomable to any resolution06:12
gnarfacejavascript->ajax->dhtml whatever that punches a hole right into your server06:13
gnarfaceit's pretty dumb but it's insecure, that's why it's just quietly left in a broken state on install06:13
gnarfacethat's them trying to sweep the shame under the rug06:13
gnarfaceyou don't really need it06:13
flingok no zoom then06:13
flingI don't even need html06:14
gnarfacewell, you need the html.  you'll still get hourly/weekly/monthly graphs put in nice linked up grids with auto-generated html06:14
gnarfaceyou want that, that's the main feature of the thing06:14
gnarfaceadding notification hooks to scripts and such is incidental06:14
flingoh ok06:14
gnarfacethose all get generated and stuffed into a apache virtualhost06:15
gnarfacethe javascript hook to let you request on-the-fly a zoomed version at arbitrary precision, that's the optional feature you can just ignore06:15
gnarfacejust leave that part broken, that's my advice06:15
flingAlias /munin /var/cache/munin/www06:15
flingis already in /etc/munin/apache24.conf06:16
gnarfaceyou still using apache24 or is it 26 now?06:16
gnarface2.4 vs 2.606:16
gnarfacethey may have left behind a vestigial config. make sure it's even the one in use06:16
fling-V says Apache/2.4.3806:16
gnarfacealso the permissions for virtualhosts are done different in 2.6, you should re-examine the documentation on the matter06:16
flingI just installed it06:16
gnarfaceoh, alright06:17
gnarfacenevermind the 2.6 thing if you're sure then06:17
gnarfacebut still make sure that's the right config06:17
gnarfaceoh, and i misread it myself; also you need to check /etc/apache2/*.conf06:17
flingok I skipped installing libapache2-mod-fcgid06:17
gnarfacehmmm, that part you might still need06:18
gnarfaceyou still need the perl stuff06:18
flingok installing06:18
flingI can't figure out which file to put the examples to
flingI put the config under >> For reference, the Apache config looks like this:06:34
flingto /etc/apache2/sites-available/100-munin.conf06:34
flingthen enabled it and now getting forbidden trying to access it on 127.106:35
gnarfacefling: permissions have to be right on the filesystem and in the apache config06:39
flinglook right for 100-munin.conf06:39
flingI have no idea, I always used nginx haha06:40
gnarfacefling: here's mine.  i'm suspecting that the differences are immaterial, and the problem with your setup is elsewhere in that file06:43
flingwhich file is this?06:43
gnarfacefling: well, it's one of those sites-available files, but i created it myself.  it has a bunch of other things in it06:43
gnarfacefling: i have other graphing processes sharing that virtualhost, as well as ssl and http basic auth setup06:44
gnarfacefling: (you need other stuff in this file besides just the munin config)06:45
flingok now getting 50006:45
gnarfaceit doesn't have to be like mine, but every apache VirtualHost has a few required fields06:45
gnarfacethere should have been a generic example shipped with apache and put in /etc/apache2/sites-available/default or something like that06:46
flingcan't I use it without apache06:46
gnarfacesure... i think so.  in theory you could browse the http cache on disk with a browser running on the server.  that's just not advisable because that's not very secure either.06:47
flingthis is what I'm doing browsing there06:48
gnarfaceyou should have error logs somewhere in /var/log/apache206:48
gnarfacemabye that will give you a hint about what is wrong with your config06:48
gnarfaceunlike munin, apache has very good documenation.06:49
gnarfacei'm sure you can make it work with nginx but i'm not sure it's really worth it.  knowing apache is a valuable skill.06:50
gnarfaceanyway i don't know shit about nginx so you're on your own with that06:50
flingI just wanted to get the graphs06:53
gnarfacethen run the cron job06:54
gnarfaceit should run on it's own every 5 minutes06:54
gnarfaceit should have run several times by now just while we were talking about it, with or without apache06:55
flingI have nothing in /var/spool/cron/crontabs/06:55
gnarfacewell you would probably have to set up the cron job06:55
gnarfacedidn't it mention that?06:55
* fling found /etc/cron.d/munin06:56
gnarfacethe graphs should be in /var/cache/munin/www/ or something symlinked to it, i forget07:01
gnarface(to it or under it)07:01
flingyeah the issue is they don't appear there07:01
flingI had the same on gentoo today07:01
gnarfacethe cron, is it running?07:01
gnarfaceis cron even running?07:01
flingyes, I see it from the logs07:01
gnarface?anything at all in that directory07:01
flingit has static in it07:02
gnarfacelike i said, it might take a couple runs for it to actually build stuff07:02
gnarfacedo you see a index.* file?07:02
gnarfaceor default* or whatever?07:02
gnarfaceany html file?07:02
flingyeah I have regular stuff in /var/cache/munin/www/static/07:03
flinglogos css etc07:03
gnarfacedid you actually add any host definitions to /etc/munin/munin.conf?07:05
flingoh looks like I need to install munin-node07:05
gnarfaceyou actually have to have clients sending data or it doesn't have any work to do07:05
gnarfacethe host can also run a client, there is no confusion07:05
gnarfaceso it's safe to monitor the host as well07:05
flinggnarface: I rebuilt rrdtool on gentoo and now it works, thanks07:26
flingit is segfaulting when built with hardware cflags for some reason07:26
flingI will try setting it on devuan later07:27
flingwith nginx ^07:27
flinggnarface: how to set the locale for graphs?07:48
fonxtadeluxemorning every one08:02
gnarfacefling: i don't remember off the top of my head, but make sure you have the locales package installed in case it's like everything else.  otherwise i'd check the munin config files08:19
masonRandom note, as of this latest kernel, for reasons I haven't tracked, it's necessary for ALSA users to be part of the "audio" group.15:40
masonI can envision that biting people.15:41
buZzmason: the kernel doesnt even know about user groups15:46
buZzat least for alsa15:46
masonbuZz: Something changed, presumably in the initramfs/eudev/something.15:46
buZzok, so dont blame the kernel then :P15:47
masonI'm saying as of the new kernel, which was the biggest thing in the batch. I haven't chased down what changed.15:47
masonI didn't.15:47
r3bootpermissions under /dev likely15:47
DHEyeah that'll be a udev rules thing15:48
masonBut either way, that's the answer if someone comes in saying the recent update left them without sound.15:49
ShorTiesounds like the alsa install needs a tweek to add users to audio15:54
r3bootAfaik this is something that is supposed to be handled by the installer; Being part of a number of groups is required for udev afaik. Atleast video & audio15:56
r3bootAnd historically, stuff like the cdrom+floppy group15:56
masonIt'd be worth verifying that the installer doesn't do the right thing. I tend to do bare debootstrap installs. Looking.15:57
masonYeah, not the installer's fault. It sets a number of sane groups, including audio.15:58
masonBut new accounts created after install don't get that by default, which is the case with the accounts I saw misbehaving. The interesting thing to me is that the permissions were loose enough before the update.15:58
masonFWIW, regardless of what bit actually changed, the kernel package is the only thing I see here that's even vaguely related:  I'm guessing something in initramfs generation changed, although I don't know what. I don't see *udev packages updating any time recently, although if they had, maybe the initramfs wasn't updated.16:03
masonAll I really know is that my kid woke me up yesterday because she couldn't figure out how to un-mute the TV.16:03
masonLuckily I checked audio group membership fairly early on and didn't burn much time.16:04
rennjcould be consolekit16:19
rennjThe ConsoleKit daemon automatically switches access to the audio device according to the currently logged in user.16:19
rennjasound.conf check perhaps16:20
rennjf the acl USE flag enabled globally and ConsoleKit is being used (i.e the system is using a desktop profile) permissions to sound cards will be handled automatically. Permissions can be checked using getfacl:16:22
fsmithredI thought you always had to be a member of the audio group to use alsa. You can set what groups a new user gets in /etc/adduser.conf.16:23
rennjheh i can remember doing setuid/setgid on libalsa so vmware would have access16:23
n4dirif what i want is to not automatically install apps from a third party repo, but point to it with apt-get -t, but then i want the deps to be installed from that repo too, is Pin-Priority 1 the right choice?16:27
n4dirwhat a sentence ... urgh16:27
masonrennj: Good catch.16:31
masonfsmithred: I've never looked in adduser.conf before. Nifty. Thank you.16:32
fsmithredmason, yeah, I uncomment those two variables and I add netdev to the list16:36
n4dirand another question: how do i start gparted from a window-manager?16:42
masonn4dir: Depends on the window manager. What's the environment?16:42
fsmithredn4dir, if you want the packages to upgrade automatically from that repo, use 100.16:42
n4dirok, fsmithred thanks16:42
masonn4dir: They'll have a launcher of some sort, I imagine. alt-enter or alt-d are probably common, as is... alt-f2? Not remembering.16:43
fsmithredtry gparted-pkexec in user's terminal16:43
n4diryes, i use gmrun16:43
fsmithredif not, then fix root's path and just run it from root terminal16:43
fsmithredsee man apt_preferences for discussion of how priorities are used16:44
n4dirOk, i did "su", and then i can start gparted. But if i click on new, i can't set a filesystem, but only "cleared"16:44
n4dirgparted-pkexec doesn't seem to exist. apt-cache search doesn't show it. hunting for it16:45
fsmithredno filesystem in the format list?16:45
buZzthats fine though16:45
buZzpartitioning doesnt need to format as a fs16:46
fsmithredhuh, it's gone16:46
masonHrm, apt-file search *bin/gparted returns nothing on Beowulf for me.16:46
buZzi dont use gparted either, fdisk is fine by me16:46
n4dir"cleared" and "unformatted", all filesystems are greyed out16:46
fsmithredI have /usr/sbin/gparted and /usr/sbin/gpartedbin16:46
n4diryes, that too16:46
buZzn4dir: thats ok, just make it unformatted and make it a fs later16:46
fsmithredsomething is missing16:46
n4dirbuZz: ok, will try16:47
fsmithredcheck to make sure you have the tools to make a filesystem16:47
n4diri ran in the same problem with debian and buntu, in the end installed xfce, started gparted, did my thing, removed xfce again. Now that i call user comfort16:47
n4dirfsmithred: don't they come with gparted?16:47
fsmithredyou have a greyed out list of filesystems, or just the one item in the list?16:49
n4dire2fsprogs is what gparted mentions, but that is installed16:49
n4dirgreyed out16:49
fsmithredsome things don't get added automatically - like btrfs for example16:49
fsmithrednot sure what else16:49
n4diryeah, i am not in such fancy stuff. ext4 or such16:50
fsmithredlooks like filesystems are Suggests of gparted, not Depends or even Recommends16:50
n4dirgparted says a program is missing, mentions names e2fsprogs, that is installed.16:50
fsmithredyou got mke2fs?16:50
fsmithred /sbin/mke2fs16:51
n4diryes. got it16:51
n4dirperhaps the problems relates to having done "su" (without -) and started gparted then16:52
n4dirnot that keen to install xfce only for that operation (without knowing if it will work)16:52
fsmithredwith su -, root can['t use user's X16:53
masonn4dir: It's probably worth your while getting familiar with fdisk or gdisk, and the very usable cfdisk and cgdisk variants.16:53
fsmithredwith su, you don't get root's path16:53
fsmithredecho "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" >> /etc/default/su16:53
n4diri used full path16:53
mason(technically an SU'd user can set DISPLAY=:0.0 or similar to do it)16:53
fsmithredand you get the old behavior16:53
n4dirfsmithred: you sure you can then start an X program as root?16:54
fsmithredthat's how I've been doing it16:54
n4diroh, you can.16:54
fsmithredother way is to export PATH from basrc and add the sbins16:54
n4dircool bean16:54
n4dirperhaps the hard-disk is dying ...16:55
fsmithredsmartctl -a16:55
n4dirserves me right for wanting to quickly backup this devuan install before i screw it ...16:56
n4dirdue to that librazik repo. Else i had no doubts16:56
n4dirsetting root PATH with the command, exit root, su again, gparted has filesystems now.16:56
n4dirOh my. Thanks to all, sorry for the noise16:56
fsmithredoh, cool16:56
n4dirmiss the times when you quickly could do such ...16:57
fsmithredthe changes in su are biting almost everyone in the ass16:57
n4dir./configure; make; make install; That one i really love16:57
n4diralso downloading *debs to users Download and then cd-ing back and forth16:58
n4dirbtw, fsmithred i told the dev of librazik that i give librazik with devuan a try, and he liked the idea16:58
n4diralso said if i run in problems he might try to get them sorted.16:59
n4diras of now i like that idea most of all: devuan and librazik (instead of buntustudio or same but with debian)17:00
n4dirha ha. There is that audio distro based on devuan, forgot the name.17:03
fsmithredavmultimedia and virage are the two I know about17:04
n4dirvirage i think17:04
brocashelmand virage uses testing instead of stable IIRC17:15
fsmithredI have a virage-ascii and virage-beowulf iso17:19
n4diri only had a very quick glance17:19
fsmithredon the beowulf17:20
fsmithredI don't know if there's a chimaera iso17:20
fsmithredvirage is made with refractasnapshot. AVMultimedia is completely different and doesn't use the debian live-* tools.17:21
fsmithredpretty sure it uses multiple overlays, and there are ways to boot it with different setups17:22
brocashelmi had hoped virage would convince a friend of mine who just got off mint and is now using manjaro to do his music recording and gaming17:24
n4dirfrom what i was told arch(based) has an impressive amount of audio apps too (pro-tools or pro-audio or such)17:42
n4dirbut: Arch !!! (shivers ...)17:43
slitt_I need an OS that works, but without being ancient. Which Devuan should I use?19:59
slitt__Which is best version of Devuan to use for daily production?20:03
debdogdefine 'ancient' :)20:03
slitt__Is  Beowulf the newest?20:03
debdogthe latest stable, yes20:04
debdogthere's also testing, but IDK how stable it is right now20:04
slitt__If I go to, is it obvious where to download Beowulf?20:04
debdogif you need newer stuff20:04
debdogthere's a big green button namend Download on the upper right corner20:05
slitt__Also, does Beowulf have claws-mail?20:05
slitt__LOL, cool!20:05
fsmithredyes to claws. Devuan has almost everything that debian has. We're missing systemd.20:06
slitt__Oh, but I really wanted systemd :-(20:06
fsmithredyou can get devuan with systemd20:06
fsmithredat www.debian.org20:07
slitt__Been there, done that.20:07
slitt__fsmithred: I need to dual boot my new devuan with my old Void. what should I do?20:07
slitt__I haven't dual booted in years.20:07
fsmithredif you're booting with grub, you can either let devuan install grub again and take control or else don't let devuan install bootloader and set up void to boot devuan.20:08
fsmithredto avoid installing bootloader, you must select expert install20:08
slitt__U think Devuan will find the Void?20:09
fsmithredyes, unless the root partition is encrypted20:09
fsmithredos-prober will find it20:09
fsmithredbut either way is good20:09
slitt__U familiar with irssi?20:09
fsmithredexpert install isn't much different from regular. You get a few more questions and if you don't knw the answer, take the default.20:10
fsmithredI know what irssi is, I always have it installer, and I hardly ever use it.20:10
fsmithreddon't remember how to use it20:10
slitt__Does anybody here know how to switch between channels in freenode when using irssi?20:11
slitt__Everything I've tried terminated irssi.20:11
slitt__I can't rtfm because I have no X and I don't want to rtfm with elinks.20:11
brocashelmdevuan chimaera/ceres is very stable if you ever need newer packages than beowulf20:13
debdogalt-left / alt-right20:13
slitt__Thanks debdog, I'll try them.20:14
brocashelmthere are distros based on devuan for different use cases20:14
debdogslitt__: or alt-X where X are numbers 0 to 9 and the upper line of letters of a qwerty keyboard up to o20:15 looks good in lynx20:26
fsmithredThe status window is by default window number 1. To switch between windows in Irssi, use Alt-#,20:28
fsmithred   where # is 0-9. Windows start at number 1, and Alt-0 goes to window number 10.20:28
golinuxslitt__: Nice to see you here and wanting to install Devuan21:05
masonor /window 2, /window 3, etc21:19
masonor alt-a to move to the next "interesting" window21:19
n4diranyone has experience with installing mate as minimal as possible?22:10
masonn4dir: apt install --no-install-recommends foo is the way to do that with most things. And in this case, maybe exploring mate-desktop-environment-core or mate-desktop might be useful.22:16
mason...rather than the full metapackage.22:16
masonn4dir: That said, if you're after a minimal/lightweight environment, you can't beat a bare window manager.22:16
n4diri know, but i need mate for a certain purpose.22:17
n4dirhence i only want to log into it to have a look, so as little as possible22:17
masonSo, for that, comparing what mate-desktop and mate-desktop-environment-core provide might be a good start.22:18
n4diryeah, looking at those, thanks22:18
masonThere might be another one that's better. Unsure.22:18
n4dirlooks good. But usually one problem leads to the next. Let me turn it round my head a bit22:19
masonn4dir: Looks like mate-desktop-environment-core is the one you'd want22:21
n4diryeah, i think so too22:22
masonapt --simulate --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment-core | less22:22
n4dirdid that.22:22
masonAnd, happily, it doesn't try to force in elogind.22:22
n4diri did an apt-cache search mate ; and --names-only before, searched the web too, but could not make any sense of it. mate*core looks like the one i would want22:22
n4diras far DE's are concerned i'd say xfce is a good choice, if you want something small (but, as said; here i have a certain purpose which simply requires mate)22:23
masonYeah, I put my family on XFCE. It's reasonable.22:24
n4diryup. Works kinda out of box, intuitive.22:24
brocashelmxfce is very lightweight and can be made into a beast22:35
SuaveDandySo let me clarify.22:43
SuaveDandyYou format a partition with BtrFS.22:43
SuaveDandyYou create the subvolume.22:43
SuaveDandyAnd then you unmount and install Debian on the BtrFS partition as you would install on any partition.22:44
SuaveDandyAnd does BtrFS require the latest kernel on Devuan?22:54
fsmithredSuaveDandy, no (to the last question)22:55
fsmithredwhich installer are you planning to use?22:56
fsmithredyeah, I'm looking at an old thread now. I don't recall what I did.22:59
fsmithredThis one looks good, too:
hagbard_I whish the installer would support f2fs.23:03
golinuxhagbard_: Feel free to make it happen by doing it!23:14
fsmithredhagbard_, I think you could probably use f2fs with some non-standard use of the installer. See the btrfs threads I linked above. Similar might work with f2fs.23:47
fsmithredin fact, if your device gets named /dev/sd* or /dev/mmc* even the graphical live-installer will work.23:48
fsmithredjust pre-format and set the installer not to format your partitions.23:49
hagbard_I did backup the install, booted a live system, reformatted the / dm_crypt partition from ext4 to f2fs, and put the backup back.23:50
fsmithredwhat I suggested above becomes more complicated if you use encryption23:52
fsmithredie. just about the same as what you did23:52

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