libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-10-10

flingWhat packages to install for mailcap in mutt to turn everything into text?02:54
gnarfacedunno fling, but fyi "apt-cache search" accepts regexp patterns for a search parameter02:56
flinggnarface: I know no names :D03:01
gnarfaceyea, but you might get lucky guessing at partial names or dependency matches (it searches package headers, too)03:03
flingI have no idea what to look for03:07
gnarface"mutt" and "text" and ... "plugin" ? i dunno03:07
Xenguy"I rode through the desert on a horse with no name, it felt good to be out of the rain"03:59
unixbsdhow to force xrdb to refresh the .Xresource on running X11 desktop? (desktop flde fork and evilwm)04:01
* tuxd3v Xenguy...desert is hot like hell during the day, but very cold at night.. how does you felt during the day, and night?04:02
tuxd3vunixbsd, what is flde?04:04
masonfling: text/html; elinks -dump -dump-charset iso-8859-15 -localhost 1 -no-connect 1 -default-mime-type text/html %s; needsterminal; copiousoutput;04:06
masonfling: But you can use other text-mode browsers. This is the highest quality output thus far, and I've also tried w3m and lynx.04:07
unixbsdsimilar to ede04:18
tuxd3vthis ede: ?04:19
tuxd3vits a nice project04:19
tuxd3vI never managed to build ede, I had a dream for it..04:20
tuxd3vfor armhf, and arm64, but never materialized :(04:20
Xenguytuxd3v: It's just some song lyrics, probably not intended to be taken literally04:20
unixbsd  tuxd3v : fltk is easy to use and nicely fast. example:     (for fluid).04:21
unixbsdtuxd3v: cd ; wget              ;  g++ -lm   -I"/usr/X11R7/include/" -I"/usr/pkg/include" -I /usr/pkg/include/    -L"/usr/pkg/lib"  -L/usr/X11R7/lib -lX11 -I /usr/X11R7/include/   -lfltk   source/fltk/kicker.cxx          -o   source/bin/kicker04:22
tuxd3vunixbsd, what is that?04:24
tuxd3vwhat is kicker04:24
tuxd3vA panel?04:26
tuxd3vprobably a launcher04:26
unixbsdtuxd3v: ah,... this is the full desktop suite based on fltk:
tuxd3vthat is the flde?04:33
tuxd3vit should consume very few resources!04:33
unixbsda sort of suckless spirit one... a fork with no automake insanity04:33
tuxd3vsunshavi, hello04:34
tuxd3vflde is a fork of what desktop environment?04:35
sunshavituxd3v: hi04:35
tuxd3vsunshavi, how are you? :)04:36
unixbsdyeah, just try to " fluid kicker.fld" and export to .cxx and you get your panel out of the box. nothign else than libfltk-dev and g++04:36
sunshavifine. and well. Thanks for asking04:36
tuxd3vsunshavi, on this days, that is a very good thing( taking into account the world situation) :)04:38
tuxd3vunixbsd, some time agoI tried to build EDE desktop, but I failed in the process, I don't recal now were, but I think fltk, is a nice toolkit04:39
unixbsdIt is better to make it yourself and to fork it.04:40
sunshaviyes. it is. how about you?04:40
tuxd3vsunshavi, I am also fine and well, at least for now, but situation here is starting to become chaotic04:41
unixbsdhere another example. fxrun.fld #04:41
sunshavituxd3v: caotic. in what aspect?04:44
tuxd3vsunshavi, I mean about the covid plague04:45
tuxd3vhere we will probably will go into complete lockdown..04:45
syco-welcome to this world04:45
tuxd3vsyco-, yeah04:46
unixbsdtuxd3v: which country?04:46
unixbsdoh man04:46
tuxd3vEurope is full of it..04:46
syco-same is happening everywhere in europe04:46
sunshavinear fatima?04:46
tuxd3vsunshavi, do you know Fatima?04:47
tuxd3vI am in the Big City04:47
unixbsdme, I only know Alera, the superbe saucisses with meat and bread, just magic04:47
tuxd3vbut yeah, Fatima is nice04:47
sunshavii have not been there. But a couple of friends of me have been04:48
tuxd3vsunshavi, it has a big Sanctuary04:48
tuxd3vits a very visited place04:49
sunshavisure. perhaps my future self will go there04:49
tuxd3vsunshavi, do you own a RockPro64?04:53
tuxd3vI have been thinking bout changing something in the driver that drives the fan04:53
tuxd3vI don't know why but it only works with pwm values >= 25104:54
tuxd3vit should work with any value [ 0 - 255 ]04:55
tuxd3vits the pwm-fan driver..04:56
sunshavituxd3v: just allwinner arm3204:57
tuxd3vI am thinking in aquiring another sbc board :)04:58
sunshavi64 bits sounds fine04:58
tuxd3vI am a bit undecided which one04:58
sunshavigreat news. rk3399?04:58
tuxd3vmaybe rk3399, or amlogic this time, maybe04:59
tuxd3vI already own a Rockpi4 and... my rockpro64 failled, it has a short circuit :(04:59
tuxd3vI loved that board04:59
sunshavifor my use case memory is the key factor for deciding05:00
tuxd3vI suspect that my cat is involved in that incident, one day when I got home, the board was almost catching a fire05:00
tuxd3vvery hot05:00
sunshavimmm. that was not good.05:01
sunshaviwhat happens when you power it?05:01
tuxd3vI made some tests on it, and its a short circuit, but pine64 doesn't have the components labeled in the board, so I don't know how to follow the shcematics05:01
tuxd3vsome regulators starts to heat up until burning the fingers, I have to turn the power off almosty imediatly05:02
tuxd3valso the PCB gets very very hot05:02
tuxd3von some regions05:02
sunshavido u use uSD?05:02
tuxd3vNo I was using emmc on it05:03
tuxd3va 32GB05:03
sunshaviit was soldered?05:03
tuxd3vno it has a conector05:03
tuxd3vI can salvage it05:03
sunshavinice. data is fine05:04
tuxd3vif it is compatible with others..05:04
tuxd3vyeah data should be fine05:04
sunshavimines r opi+2e. 2 gb is not enough, after 7 firefox tabs memory lags05:05
tuxd3vunixbsd, seems good!05:06
sunshaviwithout hdmi 40 degres. with hdmi plugged 50 degress05:07
sunshaviwith firefox 58 degress05:07
sunshaviwith mpv and all its cores 68 degress05:07
tuxd3vsunshavi, I wanted a board with good performance, and also with lots of expandable options, but we know that in ARM world sbc's is the most cheap ones... nice ARM board costs a arm, and a leg , both05:08
tuxd3vyou run mpv fine on it?05:08
sunshaviunixbsd: which bsd?05:08
sunshaviyes. mpv runs fine on it05:08
tuxd3vyou have 16GB emmc on board05:10
sunshaviactually. i have an ssd on one of them. and performance has improved05:11
sunshaviyes 16 is not enough. when you have firefox libre-office gimp05:11
tuxd3vyeah, its true05:12
tuxd3vI wanted one board with a amlogic A311D, its a fine cpu05:13
tuxd3vbut the only thing that appears is khadas ViM305:14
tuxd3vI don't like it, and the price is very high05:14
tuxd3vthe rk3399 rockpi4 is a very good option, but has less performance than A311D, almost half05:14
tuxd3vbut has good opensource support05:15
tuxd3vI own one but only 1GB Ram :/05:15
sunshaviso ssd comes in handy. i use uSD just 4 booting SSD05:15
sunshavimemory is the key for me05:16
tuxd3vyeah memory is indeed the key :)05:16
tuxd3vbut I like performance too05:17
tuxd3vthe rockpi4 has an aceptable performance, clocked at 2Ghz( but it consumes a bit of power )05:18
sunshaviyeah. but opi+2e is good enough for my use case. so whatever is out there has more performance than my actual SBC05:18
sunshaviyour rockpi4 has a fan?05:19
tuxd3vI was messing some days Ago with a Olinuxino Lime2, and I was able to browse the web with a Allwiner A20 cpu05:20
tuxd3vnot fast, but it was kinda usable, I got impressed with the performance for the A2005:20
sunshavii have an a1005:20
tuxd3vno one of the problems of the RockPi4 is the lack of a fan, and I say that because cpu gets really warm,easily can hit the 80C, and start throttling05:21
tuxd3vso I just got a 5v pi-fan, abolve the cpu coller05:21
tuxd3vcoller -> cooler05:22
sunshaviok. what r u going to use it for?05:22
tuxd3vbut mine only has 1GB of Ram, it starts to starve very soon05:22
tuxd3vmy Idea was to use it as a VPN server05:23
sunshavi2GB is the minimum acceptable05:23
sunshaviheadless then05:23
tuxd3vyeah headless05:23
tuxd3vfor Wireguard vpn05:23
tuxd3vI am still to build a vpn with it05:24
tuxd3vit come in the Linux kernel >=5.605:24
tuxd3vtrue 2GB is the minimum, for something aceptable05:25
sunshavinice. i have an a10 and h3 with 1 gb mem. nad there i can just compile with one thread05:25
tuxd3vthat is a situation were memory is important05:26
sunshavido u have an SBC with two or more GB memory?05:26
tuxd3vonly my broken RockPro64 :/05:27
tuxd3vthat is why I am searching to buy one new sbc05:27
sunshaviif i go 64 bits i would need a couple of SBC's. one as workstation and the other one just for compiling packages05:29
tuxd3vyeah 64 bits, consumes a bit more memory05:30
sunshaviif i would have to decide. memory outweighs processor power. But YMMV05:31
tuxd3vthat is true05:31
tuxd3vI like a lot of my Orangepi One plus, with its h6, but that board is very tinny, and also only has 1gb Ram05:32
sunshavidoes it have a fan?05:33
tuxd3vby default it doesn't, I also put a heat sink on it, and a 5v fan on top, connected via gpio05:34
tuxd3vI am trying to build a pwm enabled one with this:05:34
tuxd3vits only a driver for a pwm via gpio05:34
tuxd3vthe one plus was the board that I initially tough to be the wireguard VPN, but later aquired a Rockpi405:36
tuxd3vthe rockPi4 has more cpu power, and a vpn needs it..05:37
tuxd3vbut I don't know if 1GB is enough05:37
tuxd3v1GB Ram05:37
tuxd3vWireGuard is told to have low resources in mind05:38
tuxd3vbut I never tested it before..05:38
tuxd3vthe Idea is to have my home devices availlable when I am outside home :)05:39
sunshavinow that ur rockpi4 is gone perhaps You would give the h6 a chance05:39
sunshavithat would be cool05:39
sunshavihaving ur devices available when outside05:40
tuxd3vyeah the One Plus, has DVFS since kernel 5.8 :)05:41
tuxd3vit is running at 1.8Ghz :)05:41
tuxd3vit starts to be well supported05:41
sunshaviand also the pcie has a patch05:42
tuxd3vI saw that, some 6 months or less ago, someone started to work on it :)05:42
tuxd3vI never tested it05:43
tuxd3vI don't know if the H6 will be enough for a VPN like Wireguard, what do you think?05:43
sunshavijust try it and report back. there is nothing to lose05:44
tuxd3vyeah, that is true05:44
tuxd3vI just started to read the documentation about wireguard05:45
tuxd3vand it seems to be very easy05:45
tuxd3va very simple vpn05:45
tuxd3vlike the ssh protocol, easy05:45
tuxd3vbut there are yet a lot to read about it..05:45
tuxd3vthey made it thinking in mobile devices like mobile phones and such05:46
sunshaviyeah. i remember tolvards talking about it05:46
tuxd3vsunshavi, does you ever built panfrost, or Lima driver before, and used it?05:50
tuxd3vI built panfrost, but have yet to manage to use it05:51
sunshavii am using lima05:51
tuxd3vwith x11?05:51
sunshavibut panfrost has more support now05:52
sunshaviyes with X05:52
tuxd3vhow to you managed to get it to work :)05:52
tuxd3vhow is your xorg.conf05:52
sunshavilima come out with mesa1905:53
sunshaviwhen i need stability i disable glamor05:54
tuxd3vyes, but how do you call it from xorg.conf05:54
sunshavibut most of the time glamor is enabled05:54
sunshaviit is enabled by default from mesa-19. nothing needs to be done or setted-up05:57
sunshavibut sometimes X hangs05:57
sunshavibut when playing videos is ok05:57
tuxd3vbut you need to compile it, and then create a xorg.conf suitable for it, at least I compiled mesa panfrost05:58
tuxd3vand today I compiled Mesa Clover OpenCL driver :)05:58
tuxd3vClover in mesa 20.3 will have OpenCL v1.2 support05:59
tuxd3vthe master branch already has , but still needs to report it in printf() function05:59
sunshavii ran a c prg that told me lima is enabled. and also desktop is more responsive05:59
sunshavii have been compiling it until mesa 20.406:00
sunshaviit took a lot of time and space06:00
sunshavii remember needing clang, meson and ninja06:02
tuxd3vyeah it takes a lot of time, space and memory06:02
tuxd3vyeah thats it :)06:02
tuxd3vlots of dependencies too06:02
sunshavibut also panfrost have been declared mre stable than lima. i chechek release notes a week ago more lines for panfrost than for lima06:04
sunshavituxd3v: which one is you lunix distro?06:16
tuxd3vI use devuan06:16
tuxd3vand you?06:16
tuxd3vyeah , arch is nice too :)06:17
tuxd3vgentoo also06:17
sunshavidevuan provides libgccjit?06:17
tuxd3vI saw someone today compiling it06:19
tuxd3vlet me check06:19
tuxd3vI mean version libgccjit?06:20
tuxd3vI mean version 8.3.0-606:20
sunshavir u an n900 fan?06:21
tuxd3vyes I am06:22
tuxd3vbut I never got one, unfortunatly06:22
sunshavii am typing on it06:22
tuxd3vthe most closer thing that exists today is the:
tuxd3vbut n900 runs real linux userspace :)06:23
sunshaviactually. I am on this channel cos of n90006:33
sunshavin900 has a new OS maemo-leste which is based on devuan06:34
tuxd3vmaemo.leste is a nice OS06:36
tuxd3vand a nice community06:36
tuxd3vhow many time you have that device?06:42
sunshavi8 years probably. I have two of them. one of them with a broken screen06:42
sunshaviBut even with the broken screen I could use it as a bluetooth access point06:43
tuxd3vwifi and Bluetooth work ok?06:49
tuxd3vand fm Radio?06:50
sunshaviyes all of it works. Yes the screen07:06
QualityGlassdoes flatpak work on devuan?13:22
gnarfacenot sure13:33
gnarfaceit might be one of those things where it "works" until it breaks something13:33
systemdleteQualityGlass:  I've tried flatpak, though not for very much.  It does work.17:44
systemdletegnarface: I appreciate your admonishments, but I wonder if interactions with the rest of the *.deb-installed system will actually present an issue.  flatpak creates its own system libraries that its other packages can link to.  You may be right to admonish us this way, though.17:45
systemdleteIs there a way to install a very minimal, lightweight version of beowulf?  I mean, one that only takes up, say, 4 or 5 gb rather than the usual space (the kind that 12gb is recommended for)?17:47
gnarfaceyes, do an expert mode install and uncheck all the boxes at the last step17:47
systemdleteI've looked at star, which is kind of a spin off devuan.  But I'm having difficulty booting it in EFI.17:47
systemdleteaha!  Of course. Thank you.17:48
systemdleteHow much space will that eat, overall?  (I'm trying to size a virtual disk with limited physical space left)17:48
systemdleteWould I be safe with, say, 6gb?17:48
gnarfacei don't know enough about flatpack to know what it might break, i just know that usually when you install unpackaged stuff or use a foreign package manager it tends to clobber things by not being properly dependency aware, or not having packages that adhere to the right FHS, that sort of thing17:49
gnarfacethere's added risk largely due to but not not limited to the larger opportunity for mistakes17:50
gnarfacethe minimal install from a netinstall disk is probably around half a gigabyte17:51
gnarfaceit would vary by architecture17:51
systemdletereally?  wow.17:51
systemdleteSo, say 2gb then.17:51
gnarface(the 64-bit binaries are actually a bit larger)17:51
systemdleteIt's only a test vm, so I don't care whether it works well or not.  I'd hope for a minimal desktop though, just in case I end up having to poke through the guts a bit.17:52
gnarface2gb is enough for blackbox17:52
systemdletewhat about something like xfce?17:52
gnarfacenot sure, might get crowded17:52
systemdleteHmmm.  OK, thanks.17:53
danuananyone have any idea why apt-cacher would purge all my caches periodicaly , my clean_cache = 1 is commented out, but even with it on it should not happen for beowulf  as pakages raerly get updates19:22
danuanunless the re director sends me to to mirrors that have different pakage lists or signatures ?19:23
gnarfaceamprolla does some http redirect magic after the DNS round-robin that might be sabotaging your cache19:24
systemdleteI would like devuan devs to know that I have now successfully installed beowulf to 32 and 64 bit EFI VMs without any problems.  I didn't even need to install the alternate efi boot thingy!19:25
systemdleteThis was done with vbox 6.1.14 on AMD hardware running devuan ascii on the host, just for completeness.19:26
gnarfacei don't know why some people have trouble with that, i think it is a vendor quirk19:26
systemdletePreviously, I had installed ascii AND beowulf on a 64 bit efi laptop/tablet.  There are some issues w/r/t laptop, mainly rotating the screen and battery management, but I've worked around them for now.  Those are mainly nuisances.19:28
systemdleteI do not have any 32 bit efi hardware to test with here19:28
systemdleteI am sharing this info only because I am doing some comparison testing of EFI installs for a different distro and needed a solid reference to base my observations on.  Devuan did it!19:29
gnarfaceglad to hear it, systemdlete19:31
systemdletegnarface:  The installer does tell you, in the page where it asks if you want to install the alternate efi copy, that some hardware does not work to the UEFI spec.19:31
systemdleteThere remains SOME sanity in the Linux universe in these very sad days of systemd and its poettering pals.19:31
systemdletegnarface: I think that this level of EFI support will be a big selling point in the next few years as BIOS is replaced by EFI, so this might be no small matter.  I am not a huge fan of EFI, but now that I understand how it works -- with all of its flaws, and it has many -- at least your distro is positioned for what's coming.19:34
systemdleteAnd, just fyi (to anyone reading this), the vbox implementation of EFI is pretty crummy so far in my experience.  I've logged one bug already, and I foresee more.19:35
gnarfacei don't know if devuan even can claim responsibility for this though, aren't these packages the same as debian's?19:36
gnarfaceor does debian's installer actually not succeed at this?19:36
systemdleteHaving devuan available means, based on my own install testing on EFI, that many users will be spared headaches.19:36
systemdleteOh, no.19:36
systemdleteNot debian.19:36
systemdleteThis is for adelie linux.19:36
systemdleteWe're still struggling to get EFI working properly, but it is a new distro and it is making steady progress to this and other goals.19:37
systemdletePersonally, I am looking forward to seeing a successful adelie 1.0 release, but that won't be for some time.  I'm guessing another year or so.19:37
systemdleteSo, gnarface, now that I HAVE an example of a working EFI install (for both 32 and 64 bit), I have a means to compare.  That was the point to my testing.19:38
gnarfacei see19:39
gnarfacewell thanks for the info19:39
systemdleteAnd, yes, maybe this is debian-dependent to some degree.  But, maybe this is a zeitgeist of coming problems for devuan:
systemdleteThe only "flaw" I can report is that, the initial boot with the install disks, you have to navigate the vbox EFI UI, which frankly is lousy.  Once you are booted into the installer, everything works smoothly.19:42
gnarfacesounds like something that might be valuable enough to put in a forum post19:44
systemdleteMaybe other vendors' EFI work better and don't require this clumsiness.  And, maybe just the opposite occurs in those environments.  I.e., maybe the installer boots right up without navigating the EFI UI, but upon booting up the installed system ends up with issues.  I simply don't know.  The UEFI standard is... well... a standard.19:45
systemdleteSo my results are not 100% conclusive.19:45
systemdleteI think brutal honesty about this is direly necessary.19:46
systemdleteOn my laptop, I have no problems booting the installed system; grub comes right up (with the entry to alternatively go into the EFI UI)19:47
systemdleteBut I can't necesssarily assert this for all hardware.19:47
systemdletes/hardware/EFI implementations/19:49
systemdleteYeah, I could do that... forum post.19:50
systemdleteThat gentoo post sound scary.  What comes next:  systemd-uefi also?19:52
WafficusI have a question regarding installing Gentoo via KVM. I installed it via apt in Devuan, and for the "Choose your operating system you are installing", it forces me to enter in what specific OS. The problem with this is that even if I search for Linux, it only gives me variants like "Red Hat Linux", "Alpine Linux", etc, when it actually should allow me to pick the generic "Linux", and then further specify it20:04
Wafficuswith the "Version" to then pick "Gentoo"20:04
WafficusI mentioned this since a related YouTube video has these menu options present at the 2:36 mark
systemdleteI am now pretty certain that devuan boot cdrom's will need to have an ESP to boot on EFI hardware.  I believe that is the reason for having to manually launch the install media from efi shell.20:50
systemdletenvm.  It does have an ESP.  This might be vbox bug20:50
danuanWafficus just pick the closest relative , if its virt-manager , all that does is set up basics , you can change or add things later , as long as it boots and starts installing20:52
danuanor just clone an allready working linux vm and reasign the storage20:53
Wafficusyeah I don't have it working in Virtualbox either unfortunately21:28
fsmithredsystemdlete, all devuan isos except the minimal-live will boot on uefi21:28
systemdleteas I said, nvm.  My bad.21:29
fsmithredinstalls in vbox or qemu can be difficult to boot21:29
systemdleteI find that the devuan ISOs do not boot straight away in VirtualBox.21:29
systemdleteyes, exactly.21:29
fsmithredisos all boot for me21:29
systemdletein efi?21:30
fsmithredfor qemu I had to add special stuff for efi21:30
fsmithredyes efi21:30
fsmithredI get the grub boot menu with the isos, I have to go into the boot setup screen to boot the installs21:30
systemdletedo you get the grub boot menu automatically, or do you have to first navigate around the efi shell or the efi UI first?21:30
systemdleteThat's what I meant.21:30
fsmithredjust for installs, efi shell, esc, exit, scroll down to boot from file, drill down to find a bootable file21:31
systemdleteUEFI standard says that EFI must be able to boot from mbr disks.21:31
fsmithredfind me someone who follows uefi standards.21:32
systemdleteit doesn't say, though, what that might take...21:32
fsmithredall my motherboards are different21:32
systemdleteSomeone needs to be shot, I just don't know who21:32
fsmithredthat would be too quick21:32
fsmithredunless you start at the knees21:32
systemdleteThe Biden approach?21:32
systemdleteStandards are wonderful because there are so many to choose from.21:33
fsmithrednot famiiliar with that21:33
fsmithredlol, yeah21:33
WafficusDementia With A Side Of Wealth21:33
systemdletevs Narcism with a Side of Fascism21:34
systemdleteWonderful country this is...21:34
Wafficusboth are deep state21:35
Wafficusso does it matter21:35
systemdletenope, you are right21:35
systemdleteI agree completely.21:35
systemdleteBut, this is OT21:35
systemdleteWe will get yelled at if we keep this up21:35
Wafficuswhere is the "ovmf_code.fd" file from the "ovmf" package on apt?23:40
Wafficus* in Devuan23:40
WafficusI ask because I'll need it to install Gentoo in a Virt-Manager based VM with Devuan host23:40
fsmithred  /usr/share/ovmf23:42
fsmithredor check /var/lib/dpkg/info/ovmf.list23:42
Wafficusoh I need to install the backports version actually23:43
WafficusI gotta update "sources.list"23:43
Wafficuswith deb buster-backports main23:43
fsmithreduse beowulf-backports main23:48
fsmithredWafficus, don't use debian sources. It's like drinking unfiltered water.23:48
Wafficusok thanks23:50
Wafficusthat seemed to be taken fine by apt23:50
Wafficuswill install ovmf from the backport in that case23:50
hagbard_Did anyone in here successfully try to build glibc from source?23:52
fsmithredWafficus, you'll get the exact same package as you would from debian.23:52
fsmithredour servers only hold the packages we fork and amprolla pulls in the rest from debian. The merge makes it look like it's all from us.23:53
Wafficusah gotcha23:55
WafficusI used your advice though btw23:55
Wafficusso that seemed to be fine23:55

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