libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2020-11-01

gnarfaceenyc: not sure but try checking both pavucontrol and alsamixer00:18
gnarfaceenyc: make sure you're in the audio group too but it might be a issue with a missing package or a wrong option00:20
enycgnarface: already checked in audio group00:20
gnarfacethere was one issue that might affect something like this that i had00:25
gnarfaceit had chosen the wrong one of a choice of several mutually exclusive packages that was a dependency of the graphical login00:26
gnarfacesomething to do with the permissions backend00:26
gnarfacepolkit or consolekit or something like that00:27
gnarfacemaybe elogind00:27
gnarfacemaybe not relevant though, this was with lightdm and kde00:27
WafficusHey there, I was wondering, how can I force Emacs to update itself to the latest in Devuan?04:10
Wafficusdo I just need to bump up my setup to be on the bleeding edge dev branch instead?04:10
WafficusI ask because there's a weird TLS issue for Emacs that is solved in 26.3 onward04:10
Wafficusbut the one I got on Devuan is like Emacs 26.104:10
Wafficusand this is on Beowulf stable I believe04:10
n4dirfirst you check which is the version of emacs in unstable, and if that is the version you want04:11
n4dirthen you head over to debian and ask the bot for simple sid backport, ssb, iirc04:12
n4dirof course you will need to adapt that to devuan.04:12
Wafficusas in #debian04:13
n4diremacs gui version or terminal version?04:13
Wafficusor a bot on their page?04:13
WafficusEmacs GUI version04:13
n4dirno, in #debian04:13
Wafficusah gotcha ok, interesting04:13
Wafficusdidn't know you can invoke a bot in #debian for this purpose04:13
Wafficuskinda neat04:13
n4diryeah, might be for the terminal version you would get away with a chroot. Ok.04:13
n4diri don't really know the commands for the bot in #debian, you could try !ssb04:14
n4diror ask someone there to help you04:14
Wafficusso first check Devuan's unstable branch's packages page04:14
Wafficusok thanks04:14
WafficusI ask because debian's channel is usually dead, so I appreciate the help on that one04:14
n4dirno clue if it is hard to rebuild emcas. rebuilding can be damn easy and damn hard04:14
Wafficusyeah I"m not afraid of building from source if they got clear 'make' instructions04:15
Wafficuswouldn't be my first rodeo04:15
n4dirof course: ask again here. Seems silent right now. I am not much in build from source and not much in devuan04:15
n4diri mean: i know how to do stuff, but there always might be things which are different in devuan04:16
n4diras in: don't take my word for it.04:16
Wafficusno prob, I think the best thing I could do is probably look at Devuan's packages first04:16
masonWafficus: I'd just build from source, myself. Maybe manage it with GNU Stow.04:16
masonThen you can do things like completely avoid GTK and stick with Athena.04:17
n4dirdevuan backkports, assuming it exists, might have a higher version?04:18
masonAs for the latest, there's precious little reason to go for that. Unless you mean the latest stable (27.1) in which case that's reasonable.04:18
Wafficuslooks like its in unstable aka Emacs 2704:18
WafficusEmacs 27.1 *04:18
masonI don't see a newer Emacs in backports, and you'd be better off building from source than ramming in an arbitrary unstable port. You might get away with a manual backport, building the unstable package against your current system.04:20
systemdleteI'm trying to recall when I agreed to pop-up adverts from pirate bay.   Anyone know how to get rid of them?04:21
systemdleteI thought those kinds of things can only happen to windows users04:21
phillipsjksystemdlete, it may be the websites you are visiting unless it is happening with no broeser loaded.04:26
phillipsjkYou can try either installing an ad blocker or the EFF's "Privacy Badger".04:27
systemdleteWell, from what I've read, it seems that the popups can linger for some time after firefox or another browser have ended.  I've shut down the browsers, but there are still 2 showing -- I killed one manually04:27
systemdleteOK, but what to do NOW?04:27
systemdleteI have Uorigin already.  That does pretty well for me.04:27
* icemodding hi ppl! :-D04:27
phillipsjkPrivacy Badger is not actually an AD blocker, but interferes with real-time-bidding for AD spots.04:28
systemdleteI could go back to privacy badger... but what shall I do with what is here already?  I did a grep through my mozilla files and it got several hits04:28
systemdleteI am wondering if I can remove the cache2 subdirs04:29
systemdleteI'll save them of course, just to prevent more damage, but I want to see if the trouble goes away...04:29
phillipsjkThere is a clear cache option as well. You may have to close the broswer for manual deletion.04:30
WafficusI see Palemoon isn't in 'apt' in Devuan either04:34
Wafficussystemdlete: you could also try using 'w3m' for PirateBay04:35
Wafficusw3m in urxvt04:35
Wafficusw3m doesn't load that well at all04:35
Wafficusbut you might be able to get away with PirateBay within w3m with magnet links if you have a related plugin04:35
systemdleteI don't want pirate bay, tbh.  I just want to get rid of the whole f-ing thing04:36
Wafficusah gotcha04:36
Wafficusif you ever need w3m with a magnet plugin04:36
clorti like some things a bout pale moon a lot but it's pretty slow on arm05:05
clortsomething about that older non-rust engine05:06
unixbsdI did debootstrap using DVD, and it misses /etc/shadow .. and few /etc/ files. /etc/ directories are there. this is interesting. WHich package might be missing with /etc/shadow during debootstrap?11:25
suavedandyHow do I mount /tmp as tmpfs?11:26
unixbsdah i see, wrong arch !11:29
suavedandyunixbsd: Big oopsie.11:31
suavedandytmpfs is already mounted at /run11:45
suavedandyWait. It's different from mounting it on /tmp, right?11:46
gnarfacesuavedandy: you can have multiple tmpfs mounts11:53
gnarfacesuavedandy: tmpfs is just a filesystem11:53
onefangJust a file system type.11:53
gnarfacei mean it's a really weird filesystem but it's still basically a filesystem as far as the kernel is concerned11:53
gnarfacefilesystem type, or driver, if you will11:54
gnarfaceunixbsd: (generated file)11:55
unixbsdyeah, I noticed. I updated my script to install it on many usb pendrives ;)11:57
suavedandyI found this fstab entry on Gentoo Wiki:12:05
suavedandy"tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,nosuid,noatime,nodev,size=4G,mode=1777 0 0"12:05
suavedandyAll entries in my fstab have only "defaults" as an option.12:06
suavedandyNo noatime or anything.12:06
enycgnarface: hrrm looknig into polkit/consolekit/elogind/etc you mention r.e. microphone selection12:07
suavedandyAlso, doesn't tmpfs use half a memory by default? Isn't that 4 gigs limit option unnecessary?12:07
enycmakes me wonder now, what desktop variants  other  Devuan Bullseye  users have ....  and if they can set mics and so-on.12:10
enycuerr devuan beowulf12:16
gnarfaceenyc: it's a good question.  i'm just using bare alsa with alsamixer, not using any integrated WM audio configuration tool12:33
gnarfaceenyc: you checked both pavucontrol and alsamixer first, right?12:34
gnarfaceenyc: i forget if you answered that already or not12:37
suavedandySo. Yeah, I've just set up tmpfs on /tmp by myself. Very happy.13:11
suavedandyAnd SysVinit working smooth.13:11
suavedandyNo issues unlike OpenRC so far.13:11
suavedandyAm happy.13:11
gnarfacecool, good to hear13:18
gnarfacemake sure you get /tmp permissions correct, it is very important13:20
gnarface(regardless of filesystem type)13:20
enycgnarface: pavucontrol hands on  Establisgcinc connection to PulseAudio. Please wait....13:23
enycgnarface: manually launch pulseaudio&  then can get in ;p13:25
enycgnarface: now sound preferences icon works too and stuff!13:26
gnarfaceenyc: did you have pulseaudio installed before?14:38
gnarfaceenyc: it normally auto-starts by default14:38
brocashelmgood news: youtube-dl -U finally works again and pulls today's build16:03
enycgnarface: yes, it just clearly is not auto-starting16:07
gnarfaceenyc: i'm not sure what might have gone wrong but it is not normal16:13
gnarfaceenyc: are you fully updated?16:13
enycgnarface: yes16:13
gnarfacei'm not sure what could be missing16:14
gnarfaceseems like it must be something though16:14
gnarfacehow did you start it? does the /etc/init.d/ script for it exist?16:15
enycgnarface: userspace, literally pulseaudio as the user with no parameters16:15
enycgnarface: there is NOT a /etc/init.d/pulseaudio16:15
gnarfaceenyc: something must have failed during install i think then16:16
gnarfacemaybe some post-install script failed due to a bugt16:16
enycgnarface: uerm you have a beowulf desktop ?16:17
gnarfacei have some here16:17
enycgnarface: dpkg -l pulse\*16:18
gnarfacenever seen that script go missing16:18
enycii  pulseaudio       12.2-4+deb10u1 amd64        PulseAudio sound server16:18
enycii  pulseaudio-utils 12.2-4+deb10u1 amd64        Command line tools for the Puls16:18
enycany others?16:18
enycgnarface: [also,  dpkg -S /etc/init.d/pulseaudio    and tell me what package owns said script!]16:19
enycgnarface: ok so ...   dpkg -S /etc/init.d/pulseaudio   please =)16:20
gnarfacestand by not doing just 1 thing at a time here16:21
gnarfacei don't see it at all though fyi16:21
enycaha! now we're getting somewhere =)16:21
gnarfacehmmm, i wonder what starts that now16:22
gnarfacei don't really use it16:22
gnarfaceenyc: but if those are the only two pulseaudio packages you have something additional is very wrong too16:48
gnarfacethere should be at least half a dozen libraries and other related things16:49
masonSo, building ZFS into the kernel works a charm on Beowulf. This makes me really want the wiki up so I can document the process publically.17:39
suavedandyGuys, do you know why using continuous TRIM isn't recommended?17:45
fsmithredmason, write it now.17:46
masonsuavedandy: It can provide performance problems. It might also lead to less efficient trimming as it'll be smaller batches.17:46
masonfsmithred: I have the skeleton of it in a text file. I'm going to see if I can push forward with the wiki today. Too many things want it up, both for Devuan and home projects.17:47
fsmithredif you want, I could post it on the forum for now17:47
masonHm. Alright. I'll write it up a bit more completely.17:47
fsmithredor you could send it to a mailing list.17:47
masonOh, alright. Also a good option. I'll do that.17:47
fsmithrednot that I want to stop you from working on the wiki, but I thought you might be doing something else right now.17:48
masonWell, I'm also starting Amprolla4, yes.17:48
fsmithredalso, there is a zfs write-up on the forum. Have you seen that?17:48
masonI was briefly sidetracked by built-in ZFS.17:48
masonMm, I don't think I have.17:48
fsmithrednot sure yet if there are others17:48
fsmithredwell, there's this one:
masonInteresting. They go a different way, but variety is good.17:49
masonBoth those go the DKMS route.17:50
masonI'll have this out to the list presently.17:50
masonfsmithred: kk, took a bit longer as I wanted it to be a pleasant experience, but it's posted now18:32
fsmithredexcellent. Now google has it, so it will never go away.18:42
enycgnarface: aah well dpkg -l \*pulse\*  shows a lot more (libpulse  this that the other)19:05
gnarfaceenyc: i just use grep like this: dpkg -l |grep pulse19:07
gnarfaceenyc do you have elogind?19:09
gnarfaceenyc: i think it's gotta be lightdm or elogind launching it on the one i'm looking at, because it is launched as the session user19:13
enycgnarface: yes which gives different results and includes descriptions19:13
enycgnarface: elogind yes, no lightdm19:15
enycgnarface: i fact not apparent to me WHAT display manager in use19:15
enycgnarface: oh, its  "slim"  =)19:16
gnarfaceenyc: i'm not sure they all play nice on all window managers yet19:21
gnarfaceenyc: that copy of mate you are using came from the devuan repos?19:22
gnarfaceenyc: maybe check the readme19:22
aitor_enyc: you can use "apt-cache rdepends --installed <package>" to see what depends on that concrete package19:27
aitor_mason: amprolla4? That's interesting!19:28
enycaitor_: ooooo useful20:21
suavedandyMicro is acting all weird.20:41
suavedandyHave no idea why.20:42
* enyc meows20:42
Digitupon an upgrade, my devuan just asked if i wanted to remove the wheel group, and then a bunch of others, and to change the gid of many groups... i said no to it all.  has that occured just for me by some unexpected side effect of some kludge of mine, or has that been a change expected for everybody?20:47
clorti haven't seen that before Digit20:49
enycDigit: upgrade from what to what?20:52
DigitI think that was my devuan ceres, just a "sudo apt upgrade" iirc (left it hanging on that first question a couple days, now past my scrollback, mighta been "sudo apt-get upgrade" if there's any difference).   full disclosure: this is in a bedrock stratum, so, that complicates things.20:55
clortsometimes i just type things so people with problems know they're not alone20:57
masonDigit: wheel isn't a stock group on Debian (and related) systems. Not sure why it'd want to remove non-standard groups, unless it's also removing packages that own them.20:58
enycaah unstamle20:58
enycDigit: i can say in old debian uphates or  trying to  debtakeover  a non-debian,   changes to groups/uids  to match standard scheme  was a thing that happened!20:59
gnarfaceDigit: you added the wheel group yourself to conform to 3rd party software?  pretty sure that's not a debian system group21:05
gnarfaceDigit: nevermind, i am wrong about that21:05
gnarfaceDigit: i rarely end up with it in the first place though.  Debian doesn't really use wheel for stuff like BSD does21:06
gnarfaceDigit: still, the behavior does sound like your /etc/passwd and /etc/groups didn't conform to debian UID/GID numeric ranges and names21:07
gnarfaceDigit: (that's the type of thing that happens like if you use a redhat rootfs as the starting point for a debootstrap install)21:08
masongnarface: Fedora/RHEL uses wheel as well.21:08
gnarfaceDigit: i could only speculate what steps brought you to this point but when i did this to myself the only recourse i could contrive was to manually fix it all by hand21:09
gnarfaceDigit: maybe it will just work though21:10
gnarfaceDigit: keep a backup21:10
Digityup.  this is turning out more interesting than i expected.21:10
gnarfacedebian has a dedicated sudo group instead of using wheel like other distros/OSes21:12
suavedandyHas anyone else experienced problems with Micro?21:37
suavedandyIt acts funny.21:38
danuanfunny is not clear enough to troubleshoot. unless its drunk though then i would say just wait till tomorrow.21:40
suavedandyI mean, some shortcuts like F1, Ctrl+End and Ctrl+Home don't work.21:41
danuanand micro what? supermicro? or some micro package ?21:43
suavedandyAnd when I press Alt+Shift+Right, I get thrown to the second TTY with Caps Lock that doesn't turn off and no ability to switch TTYs.21:43
suavedandyMicro text editor.21:44
suavedandyIt's like Nano.21:44
suavedandyBut also sorta like Vim.21:44
suavedandyThe middle ground.21:44
danuansorry , i use joe and vim sometimes21:44
danuanlooks like you need to read the man on shortcuts for the editor21:45
suavedandyI did.21:45
suavedandyBut they don't worh.21:45
suavedandyI read the included help document, not man.21:45
suavedandyIt has an in-app help system.21:46
suavedandyAnd come on, the behavior on Alt+Shift+Right is downright bizarre.21:46
suavedandyHad to turn off the laptop because of it.21:47
danuanalt F1 trough 7 switches ttys from terminal  ctrl alt F1 does that from Xwindows21:47
danuannever used alt shift21:48
suavedandyIt's Alt+Shift+Right.21:48
suavedandyNot Alt+Shift+F2.21:48
suavedandyThat's the issue. It also locks you out of other TTYs and turns on Caps Lock for no reason.21:49
suavedandyAnd you can't turn it off.21:51
suavedandyAlso, when I quit Micro and moved the cursor with the touchpad, I gut a white horisontal line in the center.21:51
danuanmeans you selected that line21:52
suavedandyI didn't.21:52
danuanthen seems like you need to switch the editors if this one seem to be unpredictable21:53
suavedandyAlthough the touchpad picks up the smallest touches so it's possible.21:53
suavedandyWeird that it's unpredictable.21:54
suavedandyWish I had VBox installed so I could test it on pure Debian.21:55

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