libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2020-11-29

gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: wireless ethernet?  could be few things...00:01
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: physical ethernet cable should work out of the box00:01
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: what distro were you using before?00:01
PlotVitalNPCI did a full reinstall to devuan after fucking up a debian to devuan migration00:01
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: was it debian stable?00:02
PlotVitalNPCI had updated from Jessie to Buster just prior, but this is after a FULL reinstall, formatted drive and all00:02
PlotVitalNPCor rather00:03
PlotVitalNPCstretch to buster00:03
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: so it did work on buster?00:03
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: because a kernel version change would be the primary suspect typically, but for something like this going from older to newer should be safe00:03
IanJPlotVitalNPC: wellcome to the failed debian to devuan club :)00:03
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: there could be a configuration mistake though... debian might have granted you free permissin to ... something00:03
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: do you see the correct ethernet driver in the output of "lsmod" ?00:04
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: also verify the ethernet configuration in /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/resolv.conf00:04
PlotVitalNPCWhy would the failed debian to devuan migration matter after I've already done a full reinstall from an installation media? Anyways, this thing had working wifi up until I tried to switch from XFCE as a DE (not what I specified during installation) to Mate (what I specified during installation).00:06
PlotVitalNPCAs for lsmod, I'm not sure what row would be the ethernet driver00:06
IanJPlotVitalNPC: Did you happen to follow the buster -> beowulf migration howto on the website?00:06
fsmithredwhat about the device name?00:06
fsmithredeudev uses the old names00:06
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: in this case the only reason it matters is so that i can gather a history of the working status of this;  it was clear you successfully upgraded once, but not clear if the ethernet still worked AFTER the upgrade (you didn't specify, and while that's normally a safe bet, you would normally not be in this situation if it was for you)00:07
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: oh, yea and also it's called eth0 like in the old days here00:07
IanJgnarface: that's a good point and caught me out too. :)00:08
PlotVitalNPCI don't think I see eth0 on any row or column of lsmod's list00:09
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: you can determine the name of the ethernet device from the output of lspci and that should lead you to the right module name.  sorry the network device name will be called eth0 not the physical hardware or driver.  sorry for the confusion00:09
PlotVitalNPCI did follow the website's guide in the original upgrade00:10
gnarfaceyou're not under attack here, it doesn't matter.  we're trying to help, just answer the questions00:10
gnarfacei know it's tedious but as of this moment you're the primary source of information00:10
gnarfacethis isn't speculation00:11
gnarfacethis is a deductive processs00:11
gnarfacethere's too many weird possibilities and we need information to narrow it down00:11
IanJPlotVitalNPC: do you have netcat installed?00:12
gnarfacei could start piling on more anecdotes but there's no clear value yet00:12
PlotVitalNPCand /etc/resolv.conf doesn't seem to exist00:12
gnarfaceyou probably need that.... are you using dhcp?00:12
IanJPlotVitalNPC: lspci | nc 999900:13
IanJYou can do that for other things too so we can see what you see.00:14
IanJjust provide the link you get back so we can have a look.00:14
* rrq thinks of horses and wagons00:15
gnarfaceethernet should be generally very well supported at the driver level, but the graphical network configuration utilities are in general not of any higher quality than they were in the 90s' when redhat first threw networkmanager over the wall00:15
PlotVitalNPCI'm connecting to this IRC from a completely different computer to the one I'm trying to fix, on account of the laptop having nonfunctional networking. The LSPCI | nc 999 did nothing.00:15
PlotVitalNPC9999, even00:15
gnarfacelspci would have to be lower-cased00:16
IanJoh yeah, sorry, forgot you got no network on that machine :(00:16
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: try this one: lspci |grep net -i00:16
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: should spit out just one line, which you can safely paste here00:16
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: (spam bot will kick at 3 or 4 lines, i think)00:17
rrq.. or maybe "ls /sys/class/net"00:17
gnarfacerrq: that just has links to the raw devices i think00:18
gnarfacenot sure if you can get the model name from that00:18
PlotVitalNPCEthernet controller is.... Intel Corp 82567LM Gigabit Network Connection (with rev 03 at the back of the line), and network controller is Qualcom Atheros AR9285 (with rev 01 at the back of the line)00:18
IanJBoth should be well supported.00:19
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: to be clear, it's probably just something whack with the gui network tool you used, but first i wanted to make sure you do have the driver loaded, because auto-loading issues are one of the few things that the change from systemd can effect directly00:19
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: (everything else is permissions related)00:19
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: (... but, one thing at a time...)00:20
IanJdoes /sbin/ifconfig show any devices?00:20
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: fyi Qualcom/Atheros stuff sounds like your wireless, and that DOES need non-free firmware that wouldn't have been included by default in all cases00:20
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: the intel ethernet device should be supported but make sure the driver even loaded - i do seem to recall at some point having to manually load e1000 in the past00:21
PlotVitalNPCHow do I manually load the driver?00:21
gnarfacemodprobe [name]00:21
fsmithredoh, I have that atheros wireless. It should work without firmware.00:21
gnarfaceshould it?  didnt' know, fsmithred00:21
fsmithreddouble checking...00:21
PlotVitalNPCthe modprobe command doesn't seem to exist, though that might be because I'm in the /etc/network/interfaces directory right now00:22
fsmithredyeah, no firmware-atheros here, and I've used it before.00:23
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: it exists, it's just not in your path anymore by default00:23
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: (debian did that, not us)00:23
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: you do need to run it as root, or using sudo00:23
PlotVitalNPCSo would I be doing sudo /sbin/modprobe e1000 or something else?00:24
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: yes, as root.  but feel free to put /sbin/ and /usr/sbin/ back in root's path at your leisure00:24
fsmithredor else use 'su - ' to become root00:25
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: and that's assuming "e1000" is the right driver for this which i'm only 75% sure of00:25
PlotVitalNPCnothing seems to happen after I run that command00:26
fsmithredno error00:26
PlotVitalNPCNo error, but also no result00:26
PlotVitalNPCAnd trying to do things that'd require internet still doesn't work00:27
fsmithredlsmod |grep e1000 should return something00:27
IanJPlotVitalNPC: try /sbin/ifconfig see if eth0 exist00:27
PlotVitalNPCe1000 and e1000e both come up if I use lsmod |grep e100000:27
fsmithredor 'ip a'00:27
PlotVitalNPCas for /sbin/ifconfig, I don't se eth0 anywhere in the results, but it does show results.00:28
fsmithredother than lo?00:28
rrqmay need -a00:28
gnarfacePlotVitalNPC: what results, other than lo?00:29
PlotVitalNPCThere were none without -a, but with -a I can see eth000:29
gnarfaceok that's good00:29
gnarfaceconclusively a configuration issue then00:29
gnarfacethe driver is present, and loaded and so is the device00:29
gnarfaceit's just not "up"00:29
gnarfaceso make it "up00:29
gnarfacetry just "ifup eth0" if your configuration is right00:29
gnarface(but i sadly assume it is not)00:30
PlotVitalNPCIs ifup in any particular place?00:30
gnarfaceprobably the same place as modprobe00:30
PlotVitalNPCifup says: "unknown interface eth0"00:31
gnarfacethat means there's NO configuration00:31
gnarfacewhich would explain why it's not working :)00:31
bruMaybe try with enp1s0?00:31
IanJPlotVitalNPC: what's listed in /etc/network/interfaces00:31
gnarfacebru: nah, we've confirmed it's eth000:32
gnarfacebru: fresh debian install would default to old style names00:32
gnarfacebru: devuan* install.00:32
fsmithredip link set eth0 up00:33
IanJI have the line 'iface eth0 inet dhcp' in my /etc/network/interfaces00:33
fsmithreddid you put it there?00:34
IanJfsmithred: the installation process put it there.00:34
PlotVitalNPCIn my case, dhcp is replaced with loopback in that spot00:34
IanJPlotVitalNPC: there is more than one entry, there will be lo too.00:35
IanJPlotVitalNPC: add that line under the lo line.00:35
ShorTiei'd say, if 'ls /sys/class/net' shows the nics, then it has to be in configuring of the net00:35
IanJthen /etc/init.d/networking restart00:36
IanJthat should give you a working eth0 if you have cat5 plugged in.00:36
fsmithredauto eth000:36
fsmithredalso that line00:37
PlotVitalNPCfsmithred: my /etc/network/interfaces consists of just this (barring commented out stuff, with the ?s I've written here representing line breaks): source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* ? auto lo ? iface lo inet loopback00:37
PlotVitalNPCSo I add iface eth0 inet dhcp below that?00:38
fsmithredyeah, leave some space to make your eyes happy00:38
fsmithredalso add a line that says00:38
fsmithredauto eth000:38
IanJThen you should be good to go :)00:38
IanJAt least then you'll have wired ethernet and fixing the wifi will be easier.00:39
PlotVitalNPCOkay, I get something from ifup eth0 now00:40
IanJtry ping google.com00:40
PlotVitalNPCapt-get update works again00:40
IanJLooks like you have network :)00:40
PlotVitalNPCThanks, all00:41
IanJNo problem :)00:41
PlotVitalNPCIn terms of restoring wireless, should I be installing wicd or something?00:42
gnarfaceyou only need wpa_supplicant to get wireless working00:42
gnarfaceyou can do the rest with the /etc/network/interfaces file00:43
gnarfaceit can go in there like another network device00:43
gnarfaceuse wicd or whatever if you find it makes it easier but in general graphical configuration utilities will conflict with the hand-made config you just started00:43
PlotVitalNPCIncluding WPAgui?00:44
PlotVitalNPCAlso, if wpa_supplicant is a package, I'm not seeing it00:44
fsmithredalso need wireless-tools00:45
PlotVitalNPCOkay, wpasupplicant is already installed00:45
PlotVitalNPCas is wireless-tools00:45
fsmithredif you install wicd and want to let it manage the connection, comment out the lines you added to /etc/network/interfaces00:46
PlotVitalNPCSo if I've got wpasupplicant and wireless-tools, and I'm going back into /etc/network/interfaces, what do I do in there exactly?00:47
fsmithredyou want an entry for wlan0?00:47
PlotVitalNPCSo iface wlan0 inet dhcp?00:47
fsmithredyeah, if there's no encryption or password00:49
fsmithredif there is, look at the example at the bottom of this page:00:49
fsmithredand instead of address, netmask and gateway, put the dhcp line you just posted.00:49
PlotVitalNPCIs ssid the name of the network?00:55
fsmithredthis is a stationary device?00:56
PlotVitalNPCIt's a laptop00:56
fsmithredif it's a laptop that's li00:56
fsmithredyou might want wicd instead if you need to use other networks.00:56
fsmithredalthough it's possible to configure them in the interfaces file00:57
fsmithredset up wlan0-home and wlan0-work or something like that00:57
fsmithredsee debian manual00:57
PlotVitalNPCI think I'll opt for WICD in this case00:59
PlotVitalNPCJust because manually setting up every individual wifi network sounds kinda painful01:00
PlotVitalNPCI don't need to do anything to the manual config for eth0 as a result of opting for wicd, do I?01:00
fsmithredI would comment out the eth0 entry and let wicd handle the wired connection01:03
fsmithredthat's what I do with my laptop01:03
fsmithredactually, no it's not. I forgot. I set it up so I have to change runlevel to get wicd to work.01:04
fsmithredbut did that for other reasons. Just letting wicd handle it is easiest.01:04
fsmithredThere's also network-manager-gnome if you prefer that.01:05
PlotVitalNPCOh nice, wicd kept its settings from before the attempt to switch from xfce (a desktop environment I specifically didn't want when I ran the netinstaller) to mate (the desktop environment I asked the devuan netinstaller for) somehow uninstalled it or something01:05
fsmithredThose are stored in /var/lib/wicd/configurations/01:06
PlotVitalNPCWell, now it's time to see if I can get this thing to actually open up into mate rather than only being able to get it to the display manager after logging in using startx01:07
PlotVitalNPCalso probably to figure out what display manager I even have, because I thought it was lightdm but that conspicuously isn't installed01:08
PlotVitalNPC...startx wouldn't work if I didn't have a display manager, right?01:09
PlotVitalNPCOr is the x window system able to run totally independently of that?01:10
fsmithredstartx is what you use if you aren't using a display manager01:11
fsmithredis lightdm installed? or slim?01:11
PlotVitalNPCJust installed lightdm01:12
PlotVitalNPCI think I understand what happened that made mate stop working, now: when I uninstalled xfce it also uninstalled lightdm01:12
fsmithredxfce comes with slim01:12
PlotVitalNPCor slim, as the case may be01:13
fsmithredbut if you removed xfce, then it probably removed almost everything else01:13
fsmithredbecause of metapackages01:13
fsmithredI guess we better make sure the next set of isos lets you install mate without xfce01:13
PlotVitalNPCWoo, I'm finally back into beautiful, legible to my windows-raised pleb eyes, mate01:15
PlotVitalNPCWith internet access01:15
PlotVitalNPCThanks again to all of you wonderful wizards who helped me to fix this thing01:16
IanJGlad you're back up and running PlotVitalNPC :)01:17
aitor__hi, PlotVitalNPC01:25
aitor__fsmithred: tomorrow i'll send you the tarball of the live-sdk01:26
fsmithredok, thanks01:26
aitor__working on chimaera/ceres01:26
fsmithredvery good01:26
aitor__today i built an image of ceres, but this afternoon debian sid changed the kernel from 5.9.0-3 to 5.9.0-4 and there are no .udeb kernel modules for the installer so far01:27
fsmithredthat's a recurrent problem01:28
aitor__yes, glibc needs a change in its .udeb package for i386, or maybe the sources of d-i01:28
aitor__imho, the symlink located in /lib, named and pointing to should be moved tl /lib3201:29
fsmithredbeyond my knowledge01:30
aitor__this symlink causes a failure building d-i; in amd64 we have /lib64/ On the other hand syslinux needs a patch taken from ceres to build with gcc-1001:32
aitor__which is the best place for reporting this bugs?01:32
fsmithredyou could try devuan-installer01:33
fsmithredI don't know if it's our responsibility or debian01:33
aitor__it's a common issue01:34
fsmithredbgstack15 is building our installer isos now, but I don't think he's started with chimaera yet01:36
fsmithredLeePen is the one who builds debian-installer (devuan-installer)01:37
aitor__yes, i read the control file01:37
aitor__today i tried to simplify the code of the live-sdk as much as possible, but i prefer to test it in depth before sending it to you01:38
aitor__time to bed, see you tomorrow01:39
fsmithredsleep well01:39
aitor__thanks, bye :)01:39
PlotVitalNPCNow, thanks to all the help I got here, my laptop is finally ready for the main task I set out to rehabilitate it for a few days ago after a scare with my desktop:01:57
PlotVitalNPCBeing a backup access point to my online and academic life01:57
PlotVitalNPCEven if this old thinkpad can, by no means, dream of running qgis, which is the closest FLOSS to the professional software I'm trained in the use of.01:58
PlotVitalNPCI really wish that the industry standard for GIS work wasn't the bloated proprietary piece of shit ESRI pushes.01:59
clort+1 PlotVitalNPC02:01
clortmost commercial software is a racket02:02
clortenforced by cartel tactics02:02
PlotVitalNPCHell, I'm going to see if it's even technically capable of making qgis run02:05
PlotVitalNPCBecause if so that'd be the first actual benchmark I've done for this thing02:05
PlotVitalNPCWell, not sure how the thing would run doing actual analysis in qgis02:13
PlotVitalNPCbut the program does open02:13
PlotVitalNPCIt'd probably be pretty slow on the actual data analysis and processing part, because it's low spec (due to the device compatibility limitations of libreboot), but I think it's *usable* for GIS work in a technical sense.02:19
unixbsdis module ufs.ko on devuan arm/aarch64 for raspberry rpi3 ?14:45
CA_RIAHello, thank you for this beautiful distro. Can anyone help ?15:30
CA_RIAI have been using Devuan and Void linux. I have been using Devuan Beowulf. I need help regarding laptop power saving, to configure tlp.15:32
CA_RIAActually tlp is not working as it should be.15:32
CA_RIAIt's not working at all.15:32
rannhi all, quick question: can devuan be used/installed on a Raspberry Pi 3+ or 4? Any guides available?15:50
fsmithredrann, there's #devuan-arm and there's a forum section for arm:
ShorTiesure it can, i use a raspi.list too15:52
ShorTieworkin on a Gentoo-imager now, lol.15:57
avbox111I have a asus transformer 2in1 tablet. In devuan ascii, I managed easily to rotate the screen with xrandr -o right and xrandr -o normal, in devuan ascii, it does too rotate but after rotating the right part of the screen is not any longer accessible for mouse, trackpad and touchscreen. Any ideas?16:21
avbox111Have to add, only the right click is not any longer accessible, left one works.16:22
avbox111need to add that in beowulf it does not any longer work16:24
MinceRis that clicking via touchscreen? touchscreen input can also be rotated and in my experience usually needed to be16:39
clortavbox111: i dunno the cause of that, but maybe comparing xorg / xserver versions between the two17:14
clortor the installed drivers17:14
clortit's nice to have two system partitions for these kinds of a/b comparisions17:14
buZzi bet its the windowmanager thats blocking the rotation of input devices17:15
clortoh reading more carefully, buzz is probably right17:16
avbox111clort: Just at this moment, I at least am able to start it correctly while putting it in xorg.conf, there I can add under Montor: Option "Rotate" "right" and Option "PreferredMode" "1280x800", so at least it starts correctly. randr -o right and randr -o normal still dont work, but if I do an killall Xorg, then it does start correct again.17:18
onefangAfter a quick bit of research, it looks like nftables is preferable to iptables.  I'm migrating from ASCII to Beowulf, and I use shorewall, but it looks like shorewall isn't gonna shift over to nftables.  So I'm looking for an nftables alternative to shorewall, and one that works well with fail2ban.20:54
onefangAny suggestions?21:51
onefangDebian seems to be heading in the "use firewalld" direction.21:52
hagbard_Well, nfttables has replaced iptaples, but iptables is still there and works like it always did.22:04
* tuxd3v hagbard_ ...thanks god its still there, don't know for how much time, unfortunately22:06
onefangThat's why I'm looking at moving to nftables.  iptables is going away eventually.22:29
user____1Hi. Does anyone know if HP is "killing" Samsung printers now that they bought them out? I see no new Samsung printers coming out. Am using a cheap Samsung laser with devuan, would like to know if it's an EOL issue. Stock up on toner spares and so on in case it is.22:30
user____1[related] 2016 info
user____1also, is there a jitsi howto for devuan already? There was a lot of discussion on here about it these days, I'd expect someone to write up the conclusions in the wiki? No?22:35
gnarfacei didn't hear the conclusion about the jitsi thing either, i was assuming they couldn't make it work so they changed to other software....22:46
gnarfacethe printer question, you're probably asking in the wrong place in two regards22:47
gnarfacei just got a brother printer that can emulate HP printers, and works great with the same drivers my old HP laserjet used22:48
gnarface(they have proprietary drivers that are supposed to work but they get mixed feedback_22:48
gnarfacedidn't even know samsung made printers22:49
gnarfacebut i don't think this is a printing-heavy crowd to begin with22:49
gnarfacemost of us have made every effort to go as paper-free as possible decades ago, just because it's easier that way22:49
onefangI haven't owned any printers for 20 years.22:50
gnarfacei have always had one but i use it about once a year, to once every other year22:50
gnarface(once phones could draw maps i stopped having to print them every time i left the house)22:53
user____1I use the printer for proof printing pcb artwork.22:58
user____1On plastic sheet.22:58
user____1Samsung was/is the oem for Xerox printers (low end) among others. Aka "Phaser" line.22:59
user____1Now that Samsung printers belong to hp I assume Xerox will have to look elsewhere for print engines. Hp being a direct competitor in the copier market.22:59
user____1The small Phasers were basically 1:1 with Samsung models, excepting for branding, and toner chip codes.23:00
gnarfacenot knocking it, just saying you might want to ask that in a channel where the people have more printers23:03
golinuxOr ask in offtopic channel23:11
user____1sure will.23:11
user____1moving on, past midnight here23:11
user____1bye, thanks23:12

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