libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-12-01

aitor_fsmithred, if you are there..., i've just sent you an email related to the live-sdk00:33
aitor_on the other hand, you were working on a live-config-runit package00:34
aitor_i'm using something like this for the autologin with runit:00:35
fsmithredhi aitor00:36
fsmithredI uploaded a package. Just have to remember where.00:39
fsmithredthat's for the version of live-config in beowulf00:40
fsmithredbut should work in any version00:40
fsmithredI will eventually make a devuan package for chimaera00:40
aitor_I also eventually removed the dialogs from the live-sdk in order to simplify the code00:41
fsmithredoh, thanks00:41
aitor_suggestions are welcome00:41
fsmithredparazyd will be happy about that. He likes to automate builds.00:41
aitor_the code is more readable now00:42
aitor_the dialogs will be located in a separate folder and the user will be able to by-pass them00:43
fsmithredI got the tarball. Thanks.00:44
aitor_hope you like it00:44
aitor_i left glibc-udeb as it is00:44
fsmithredok. What does that mean?00:45
fsmithredoh, you had some conflict with that?00:45
aitor_but i applied a patch to the Makefile of debian-installer00:45
aitor_it was due to an existent symlink in /lib00:47
aitor_more concretly
aitor_the Makefile uses the find command in /lib and this symlink overrides /lib/i386-linux-gnu/
aitor_in amd64 this symlink is located in /lib64, so there is an unique in /lib, the one located in /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu00:53
aitor_the patch for the Makefile is include in the extra folder of the live-sdk00:54
aitor_debia-installer uses the source format, no way to apply a quilt patch for that00:56
aitor_time to bed, bye00:56
fsmithredgood night and thanks.00:56
aitor_see you tomorrow, devuaners :)00:57
landleyIf I wanted to do an sh4 port of devuan, where would I start?06:12
landleyHmmm, really two questions. 1) If I wanted to do a musl-libc port of devuan, where would I start, 2) sh4.06:13
unixbsdI try to install with installer.09:01
unixbsdInstalling grub boot loader [NO]!09:01
unixbsdAnswer from devuan instlaler: "Installing Grub Boot Loader", please make sure that it works.09:02
KREYREENReferencing help appreciated.. it's debian-11 running in QubesOS that seems to have userland issue to not use the radeon GPU >.>15:49
KREYREEN(debian didn't help x.x)15:50
danuanafter running update-rc.d , got a load of errors , tracked it down 22 /etc/init.d/ scripts had a filesize of 0 .  tracing logs  , only thing i found was that server was rebooted earlier in the day . and no reboots after that event15:51
danuanplus everything was running  so zerooingg did not happend during reboot , as none of those services would have been running , something did it while system was up. and  doing a find by date and zero size revealed that /etc/init.d was only one affected15:53
KREYREENdanuan, my first guess would be hardware-induced data loss.. did you check the S.M.A.R.T. ?15:56
KREYREENalso i would hexdump these to see what those files are storing.. e.g. could be a malformed header that makes them seem like blank15:57
KREYREENalso dmesg might help15:57
danuanusing a 6 gig ide drive so no smart on that yet15:58
KREYREENi see.. in which case i would move the data in backup (in case there is a hardware damage forcing it to do read/write might cause more data loss) and check it agains something like `badblocks`16:00
KREYREENassuming there being any data that you don't want to lose O.o16:00
KREYREENalso syslog might show if there was any cronjob or something that touched these files16:00
danuanall happened on exact same date same time , went trough all logs and nothing on that particular date-time16:01
KREYREENmight be relevant to health checking
KREYREENdanuan, that would point on the hardware failure to me16:02
KREYREENespecially when it's on files that are within a same directory where depending on filesystem used these might be on the same block16:02
KREYREENas dataloss usually has these symptoms of leaving blank files behind16:03
KREYREEN(at least based on my experience)16:03
KREYREENafaik because the filesystem stores that file hierarchy and points to the data on the specific blocks to be located.. so files/directories stay, but data on them are not reachable O.o16:03
KREYREENand if it has some sensitive data that you don't want to lose and can't exclude hardware damage (that you should have a procedure for if this is commercial use) then i would rip the system from the wall and gave the HDD to the specialist for data restoration16:05
KREYREENripping it from the wall so that you are not forcing more runtime on the HDD that may result in more data loss or so i was taught to do x.x16:05
danuanits just 6 gig system ide drive with backups , important stuff is on zfs16:05
unixbsdhello, what is the sources.list of ascii devuan main repository? (only the packages stable, no security)?#16:05
unixbsdfor pae i386?16:06
KREYREENdanuan, then i would try self-diagnostics to verify the current health of the device16:06
unixbsdplease if you had an template or url for it, thank you very much and in advance looking forward reading you -- kind regards16:07
fsmithredunixbsd, deb ascii main16:07
KREYREENunixbsd, See ascii has backports, proposed-security, proposed-updates, proposed, security, updates and main available16:07
danuanKREYREEN and your question , i can only say i have tested  kvm vs xen side by side  and kvm came out on top as far as how many things just worked with minimal config . though i never got to gpu passthrough16:08
fsmithredascii ascii-security and ascii-updates are the standard ones to have16:08
KREYREENfsmithred, care to take a look on my issue? ^-^16:08
danuanxen might have been yesterdays  sollution , but today kvm seems to get way more attention16:08
KREYREENdanuan, ye so far everything but the GPU passthrough works x.x16:09
unixbsdis there a repository that works and that is stable?16:09
KREYREENunixbsd, `stable`16:09
fsmithredno, don't use 'stable'16:09
* KREYREEN though it's an alias to current stable~16:09
fsmithreduse codenames, because we are not always in sync with debian16:09
KREYREENah true sorry x.x16:10
unixbsdhttp://auto.pkgmaster stuffs is offline16:10
fsmithredKREYREEN, qubes and radeon? I don't know anything about it.16:10
KREYREENfsmithred, info on diagnosing radeon on devuan would be appreciated as this seems as userland issue O.o16:10
KREYREENbasically debian has dGPU on PCI available, but refusing to use it16:11
fsmithredunixbsd, if gives you problems, pick a nearby mirror from the list16:11
fsmithredat devuan.org16:11
fsmithredKREYREEN, maybe a bios setting for order of vid cards?16:12
danuanKREYREEN if you need to trick to xen  maybe try AMD proprietary  drivers ? and i would look in to kvm  passthrough of that particular card  , see what that comunity is saying as it might be applied16:12
danuantrick - stick16:13
fsmithredgotta go. afk.16:13
KREYREENfsmithred, this is on xen so BIOS should provide the vid card16:14
KREYREENdanuan, i never got the AMD proprietary to work on this dGPU16:14
* KREYREEN noticed something in settings and is trying reboot of the VM16:14
Junicchiit might be me or the updates but16:14
Junicchithe whole sound system on my machine is broken now16:14
danuani remeber reading that  it is a hit and miss for passthrough , and major hacks with extracting vga bios and passing it to domus to initialise as files   for some videocards16:15
Junicchivga passtrough huh16:15
KREYREENstill no idea x.x16:35
danuanKREYREEN just a though , isnt that lenovo a laptop? and would that mean you are trying to passthrough a primary and only gpu that main system uses ?16:43
danuanas far as i know that means you need to make dom0 a headless system somehow16:43
unixbsdis there a webpage with all infos about sources.list? similar to the classical one:  (old good webpage)18:10
unixbsdthe only one I know is:   but not a wiki.18:13
golinuxThat's the only page18:13
KREYREENdanuan, it is laptop and it has iGPU and dGPU18:13
golinuxWe need more people involved to maintain a wiki.18:14
golinuxLast effort died a slow death.  New effort hasn't launched. And no one to write content so for now the wensite is it.18:15
KREYREENdevuan has a wiki?18:19
KREYREEN returns "Welcome to nginx!" lol18:21
specingShould be "Welcome to systemd-nginx"18:26
KREYREENsystem dicked would return 40418:26
DHE500 user tried to use a non-default setting18:27
KREYREENdefault sucks~18:32
golinuxIt is so out of date Beowulf isn't even mentioned.18:42
golinuxAnd no one liked the doku wiki format.18:43
KREYREENlike if you want people contributing then i would make an official wiki on and mentioned it on
KREYREENwould be personally interested to contrib :318:43
golinuxAs I said above . . . New effort hasn't launched18:44
golinuxThere will be an announcement if it ever happens.  You are welcome to contribute18:44
masonKREYREEN: It's on my task list, but I've diverted to something less obnoxious. There was a thread on dng if you want to throw in ideas.18:44
KREYREENlink it then :p18:45
KREYREENwould be currently interested in makeing devuan image for qubesOS tbh18:45
fsmithredgo for it18:46
KREYREENabstracting it atm18:46
specingHonestly the systemd hate kinda subsided18:46
KREYREENnew gen likes systemd because they are stupid imho :p18:47
golinuxHumans are stupid (but that's for offtopic)18:48
KREYREENmeh.. the qubes backend is such a garbage x.x18:50
fsmithredwiki discussion starts here:
specingIs there any development on a systemd competitor? Something that implements similar functionality in a proper way?18:53
fsmithredat least for init and service management18:54
fsmithrednot for network, mounting, and whatever else systemd wants to do18:55
masonspecing: Look at launchd, SMF. Those are what systemd wanted to be, and both are free software and hence can be useful with the free kernels/systems available.18:58
masonBut honestly, sysvinit works fine.19:00
danuanjust wait till systemd gets a registry and deletes /etc19:01
danuanthe linux can be free of this old unix crap19:02
Helle.... you joke, but gconf -> GSettings & dconf19:05
masonKREYREEN: Oh, forgot to mention, there's a moribund #devuan-wiki that will one day spring into living colour once a wiki is up. Also, FWIW, current thrust is twiki/foswiki, possibly using custom apparmor profiles to address some of their code structuring issues.19:05
masonBut I'm working on a repository collider first.19:06
danuanHelle yes it seems modern day linux distributions have moved in direction of windows , where it seems very hard to build a minimal server without xwindows interface  being a dependancy for one thing or another.19:16
Helledanuan: I mean I am actually not too angry about X libs being pulled in19:17
Helleso far I've been without X on the server though19:17
Hellehell, the main thing that draws in X is the fact I install a full version of vim (which has an X dependency just for clipboards....)19:17
danuaneven with debian/devuan  you have to be picky and careful about installing things , or it pull in a shitload19:18
Helledanuan: I mean disabling recommends is important19:18
suavedandyfsmithred: So I followed these instructions:
suavedandyAnd the installer still asks what file system I should format the partition in.19:35
fsmithredsee the config file to disable that19:35
fsmithredno_format=yes (I think)19:36
suavedandyfsmithred: Alright, will search for it.19:38
fsmithreduncomment that19:39
IanJIs there a way to --no-install-recommends by default?19:54
xinomilocreate file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ with 'APT::Install-Recommends "false";'19:57
IanJThanks xinomilo :)19:58
IanJIt was starting to wear having to type that each time I installed something :)20:01
fsmithredaptitude -R ...20:06
IanJDon't have aptitude installed, never had a need for it.20:14
IanJSome of this stuff has crazy dependancies.20:15
IanJI didn't install cpp, but if I try to remove it, it wants to uninstall xorg.20:16
xinomiloxorg is a metapackage20:17
IanJMaybe it is, but what has removing a c pre processor got to do with xorg?20:18
n4diraptitude why cpp20:20
n4dirwill probably only lead that far20:20
fsmithredapt rdepends cpp20:21
fsmithredwill tell you what depends on cpp20:21
fsmithredg++, build-essential20:22
danuanaptitude is nice for managing things from an interface , took me a while to switch from dselect as i was too used to that20:23
fsmithredoh, I just do aptitude on command line. I don't like the interface because it reminds of dselect.20:23
fsmithredI had a really hard time with that, coming to debian from suse.20:24
IanJI just don't understand why a pre-processor, something you would use to compile. Would be needed by compiled binaries of any kind? Maybe I'm missing something...20:25
n4diri sure heard and experienced weird stuff as soon metapackages are involved, but not that. Sounds weird indeed20:29
IanJ*nods* How packge management works is some kind of voodoo. I have no idea how it all works I just know sometimes it has some strange ideas :)20:30
n4dirif i simulate a removal of cpp it wants to remove xorg too. Not that info would be of any use for you, but yeah, confirmed20:31
danuando it enough times and make a procedure list of what to install and what to skip,  i do just apt for xless servers , but aptitude when doing a full blown desktop (otherwise it takes forever )20:35
n4dirsounds to me like a different question/problem20:37
IanJn4dir: who would be responsible for defining the dependencies, the package maintainer of cpp on debian?20:39
n4dirnow as far i can tell it is the dependency listed in the file debian/rules ? For sure a file in the debian folder of the source code20:41
n4direlse apt-cache show <packagename> lists those dependencies20:41
n4dirand for xorg it sure doesn't mention cpp20:41
suavedandyfsmithred: Found it with a text search. Have no idea how to find a specific line in Nano.20:42
suavedandyI wanted to clarify. Do you type the same partition name instead of pressing ENTER when the installer asks you for the home partition?20:43
fsmithredit's on line 55 as indicated by the sed output I posted. Not very far to scroll down in a text editor.20:43
fsmithredI don't remember how to do the btrfs install20:44
fsmithredwhatever I wrote, whatever the other guy wrote20:44
suavedandyfsmithred: mount -o subvolid=258 "$home_part" /target ; check20:47
suavedandyThat's one of the lines I had to change.20:47
fsmithredthat looks a little familiar20:47
suavedandyThe only difference is "-o subvolid=258" part.20:48
fsmithredand there's a different subvol for root?20:49
suavedandyThe home partition mounting doesn't happen when you skip choosing the home partition, right? As far as I remember from checking the config, it was inserted into some form of construction.20:49
n4dirIanJ: i misunderstood your question, obviously. Yes, the maintainer of a package.20:50
suavedandyAn if statement, perhaps?20:50
fsmithredboth subvols are part of /dev/mapper/storage?20:50
fsmithredmight need to disable a test to put the same thing in for both20:50
IanJn4dir: I will contact them, see if they can take a look at it.20:50
fsmithredhang on while I look20:51
n4dirIanJ: well, the problem is that cpp is not listed as a dependency of xorg, and the other way around neither.20:51
suavedandyfsmithred: The home subvolume still needs to be mounted seperately tho.20:51
n4dirI fooled with apt rdepends, apt-rdepends and apt-cache depends, but sure can't make any sense of it (i hardly use those tools)20:51
suavedandyBecause of "-o subvolid=…"20:52
fsmithredyou took care of that by editing the mount commands, right?20:52
fsmithredlooks like home_dev gets tested for ending in a digit, which is not fatal, and also checks that it's not the same partition as the esp (efi partition)20:54
fsmithredso you should be good to put the same logical partition for both20:54
fsmithredn4dir, apt-cache depends will tell you the deps for the package you name20:55
fsmithredrdepends will tell you what packages depend on the one you name. You have to think backward when you read the output..20:56
n4diryeah, that i got. But as the man page of apt-rdepends mentioned it, i gave it a try20:56
n4dirapt rdepends and apt-rdepends differ quite a bit too20:56
n4dirmainly apt rdepends gives me apps i haven't installed20:57
fsmithredI don't have apt-rdepends20:57
fsmithredhow did you get it?20:58
n4dirtry playstore or ebay20:58
fsmithredit's in the repo20:58
n4dirha ha. sorry. i thought you were kidding. just install20:58
fsmithredI've never heard of it20:58
n4diri never heard of apt rdpedends.20:58
fsmithredapt-cache rdepends has been around for a long time20:58
n4dirbut was puzzled as it listed xdm. checked, not installed, installed apt-rdepends, that looks more like what i got20:58
n4dirstill no clue bout the relation of cpp and xorg though20:59
fsmithredyeah, I saw xdm and wondered about that20:59
n4dirthis install is 3 months old? So as you see: i only need it if i fool around.20:59
n4dirmost of the time i get away with aptitude why20:59
n4dirwell: i hardly de-install programs21:00
suavedandyStill wondering if BtrFS's compression works with encrypted volumes. After all, the encrypted volume appears as random data… probably…21:39
masonsuavedandy: It should work anywhere/everywhere.21:49
suavedandyOkay. I have no idea how encryption works on GNU/Linux then…21:51
fsmithrednormally you encrypt a partition and then open it and create a filesystem on it. (single filesystem or lvm with multiple logical volumes.)21:56
suavedandyfsmithred: Turns out you can just mount one top subvolume with two subsubvolumes.22:00
sixwheeledbeastIt depends how you set it up i suppose22:00
suavedandySo THAT'S why everyone was saying you must have a top volume.22:00
fsmithredsorry, I don't understand22:00
suavedandyYou see, nested subvolumes get mounted with the top volume.22:01
fsmithredsince btrfs is a filesystem, you probably want to put that inside an encrypted partition.22:01
suavedandySo you can switch subvolumes around that way kinda.22:02
suavedandyOr maybe not.22:03
suavedandyIt says they have a toplevel subvolume in their layout.22:04
fsmithredthere's nothing about encryption on that page22:04
suavedandyIt prob works. I remember installing Ubuntu with BtrFS and encryption just fine.22:05
suavedandyIt has automatic subvolumes like on OpenSUSE. But it's simpler, as you can see.22:06
fsmithredthe page explains the different ways of encrypting with btrfs22:07
suavedandyThe @ subvolume is mounted to / using the kernel boot option rootflags=subvol=@22:07
suavedandyThe @home subvolume (if it is used), is mounted via the mount option subvol=@home in fstab.22:07
suavedandyfsmithred: Not talking about the encryption. Talking about the subvolume layout.22:08
fsmithredif you wanted to use luks, make one big partition on the drive, encrypt it, open it, and then do the btrfs setup, then install the system.22:09
suavedandyI'm saying that mounting two subvolumes is unnecessary.22:09
miskatonici better stick to good old ext*22:10
fsmithredmiskatonic, me too.22:10
suavedandymiskatonic: The only reason why we have so much fiddling is because Debian/Devuan isn't Ubuntu and doesn't provide installation on BtrFS root in its installer.22:11
fsmithredsuavedandy, are you saying that you don't need to have /home in fstab?22:11
fsmithredok, I guess you can find out pretty fast if that works or not22:11
fsmithredadd #, save and reboot.22:12
suavedandyfsmithred: No, I was very wrong.22:35
suavedandyI read the instructions wrong.22:35
suavedandyThe Ubuntu's article just stated that level 5 subvolumes are mounted first. It didn't say only one subvolume needs to be mounted.22:36
suavedandyThe BtrFS installation sure requires some hard brain flexing.22:46
fsmithredand what do you get for that extra work?23:01
masonsuavedandy: Why did you move off of ZFS?23:16
masonI might have asked this previously, but I'm not remembering.23:17
suavedandyWell, I wasn't very successful with it.23:21
fsmithredmason, have you got a minute or two to meet me in video chat? I want to test new chromium properly.23:27
suavedandyfsmithred: That article seems to be quite helpful in terms of setting BtrFS.
suavedandyIt's for Ubuntu but, I mean, Debian-based.23:28
suavedandySo it applies.23:28
suavedandyAt least partly.23:29
fsmithredbtrfs inside luks is what I assumed would work.23:29
masonfsmithred: Sure, yes. Devuan meetingspace?23:31
fsmithredon my way23:31
suavedandyThere's no other way of encrypting BtrFS. Unlike ZFS which has native encryption.23:31
masonI still use LUKS with ZFS. I don't like the native encryption.23:32
suavedandyfsmithred: So apparently every entry in my fstab is mounted with UUID.23:40
suavedandyIs that something required for GPT?23:40
Helleno, but it is common23:44
masonsuavedandy: I much prefer human-readable GPT labels. /dev/disk/by-partlabel/foo23:44
suavedandyNow thats pretty23:48
fsmithredyeah, uuid is standard now, and it's good if you have multiple disks, in case they come up in a different order.23:51
fsmithredbut uuid sucks to read23:51
fsmithredI use /dev/mapper names if they exist23:51
fsmithredand I have used labels in the past. They're nice.23:51
suavedandyfsmithred: Can't you just /dev/device_name?23:54
fsmithrednot on an encrypted partition23:54
fsmithredencrypted filesystem23:54
suavedandyI was referring to ESP.23:54
fsmithrednot sure how I do that. I'll check.23:55
fsmithredon one laptop /dev/sda1 is mounted to /boot/efi, on the other laptop the esp is not mounted.23:56
fsmithredsince both are laptops and only have one drive, there's no chance of being out of order23:56
fsmithreddesktop is bios boot23:56
suavedandyAnd what about a desktop with one drive?23:57
fsmithredI use dev names in that case. Also in my VM tests.23:58
fsmithredleast work involved23:58

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