libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-12-03

sgageHello? Is anybody home?02:01
stiltrsgage: You'll usually have better luck just asking your question.02:03
qaluHthat bot02:04
sgageI didn't have a question - I was just wondering if the channel was broken.02:10
sgageI haven't seen any activity on it all day.02:10
stiltrOh, yeah. Some days are like that.02:12
sgageI'd never seen it so quiet before, in years of experience, except if something was broken.02:17
sgageGlad to see it's not. Everyone's Devuan is working perfectly, so no need for questions :-)02:17
stiltrThat must be it! :)02:25
Xenguy*nix was kind of designed that way too:  'no news is good news'03:01
clortthat's it for me08:36
clortwe could each run a once a day 'my devuan's still not broken' paste in the channel08:36
timkenhanso i noticed we're at python3.9 now. anyone else think it's moving too fast?11:02
JorilI do, but I fear this is OT here :D11:10
ShorTiei'd say, it's at what ever Debian has it at11:42
ShorTiemaybe go talk to them about it11:42
ShorTienot trying to be smart at all11:43
ShorTiebut in reality, Devuan has very few packages11:44
ShorTiebasically, any thing Debuan has systemd required is rebuilt without systemd11:47
suavedandySo I wanted to insert my encrypted partition's UUID and found this command: "sed -i '/GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=/s/"$/ cryptdevice=UUID=135f3c06-26a0-437f-a05e-287b036440a4:lvm&/'"15:04
suavedandyHow do you pass UUID as a variable to this command instead of writing this gibberish that's hard to read.15:04
suavedandyBecause there are some anchors like $ that sed reads and when you use double quotes that $ is read as a variable sign.15:07
suavedandyAnd I fear that this will mess up everything.15:07
fsmithredthe dollar sign tells sed to replace the final double quote with the string of options. Not sure, but I think it's missing a final quote.15:13
fsmithredinstead of using sed you could edit the file with a text editor15:14
fsmithredif you can't copy/paste it, you only need to type it once.15:15
suavedandyfsmithred: How exactly am I supposed to copy it to Nano?15:16
suavedandyIs there an option or something?15:16
suavedandyHm, maybe there is. Let me check…15:16
fsmithredif you're in a terminal in a graphical environment, copy/paste works15:16 cryptdevice=UUID=135f3c06-26a0-437f-a05e-287b036440a4:lvm15:17
fsmithredis that correct for the options?15:17
fsmithredwhere does the :lvm come from?15:18
suavedandyXorg? Nope, I don't have Xorg.15:18
suavedandyAh, it's just a name of the device.15:19
fsmithredwhat's not correct?15:19
fsmithredyou're just trying to add some boot options to /etc/default/grub, right?15:19
suavedandyI want to boot from LUKS.15:19
fsmithredso just edit the file to add what you need and run update-grub15:19
fsmithredyeah, I've done: sed -i "s/something/$variable/"15:21
suavedandyI'm a cool hackerman now.15:22
fsmithredyou have to use double-quotes around the sed expression15:22
fsmithredwhy do you need to use sed?15:22
fsmithredeither way, you have to type it all15:22
fsmithredactually more with the sed command15:22
suavedandyDouble quotes aren't safe 'cause meta-characters.15:22
suavedandysed's quick at times when you know how to use it.15:23
suavedandyAnd typing UUID by hand isn't safe.15:23
fsmithredyou still have to type it by hand for sed15:23
suavedandyAs I said, '"$variable"'15:23
fsmithredoh, I get it. You want to make15:23
fsmithredhave fun solving it.15:23
suavedandyI'm a hacker guy.15:23
fsmithredI'm a 'get it done' guy15:24
suavedandyRetrowave starts playing15:24
miskatonicfsmr has hacked together stuff like refracta, so he is even more of a hacker guy15:25
r3boot :]15:25
fsmithredKick it around 'till it does what you want.15:26
fsmithredyou may quote me on that15:26
onefangAnd if your feet get sore, use a sledjhamr.15:26
fsmithredI use one to install packages15:27
miskatonicdragonflybsd uses a filesystem called Hammer... or similar.15:28
fsmithredsuavedandy, is this btrfs or ext?15:30
fsmithredok, I guess mine is too different15:30
fsmithredencrypted lvm with separate /boot, only boot option is "quiet"15:31
miskatonicxfs is weirder... and some people even use zfs with linux15:31
fsmithrednot btrfs15:31
fsmithredyes, I think there's a zfs howto (or two) on the forum15:32
suavedandyfsmithred: It was an example.15:32
suavedandyI have BtrFS on LUKS.15:32
suavedandyNot LVM LUKS.15:32
suavedandyThat's redundant.15:32
fsmithredyeah, you're right15:32
suavedandyYou can replace lvm with whatever.15:32
suavedandyLike cryptroot or somethin'.15:33
suavedandyDon't you, like, have LUKS setup in your script? I thought you know that already.15:34
fsmithredknow what already?15:34
suavedandyHow you configure GRUB.15:34
fsmithredyeah, I don't do anything special for luks in grub15:35
fsmithredcrypttab has stuff in it, and yeah refractainstaller handles that15:35
suavedandyDid you configure LUKS differently? I thought you have to edit GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT.15:36
fsmithredmine just has "quiet" which I forgot to remove.15:37
suavedandyIs quiet even needed?15:37
fsmithredcrypttab has: mapper-name  UUID=uuid...  none luks15:37
masonsuavedandy: I like removing it. If I'm going to see some messages, might as well see them all.15:38
fsmithredsame here15:38
fsmithredI think it does suppress system messages on the console15:38
fsmithredseem to recall reading that somewhere15:38
suavedandyWell, in the end of the topic you send ( ) the guy read that you need to edit GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT along with the crypttab.15:40
suavedandySo I thought.15:41
suavedandyI did enter the UUID to the crypttab.15:41
suavedandy"cryptdata UUID=<UUID> none luks"15:42
fsmithredand update-grub does not put the right stuff in grub.cfg?15:44
suavedandyHe also said you need to set CRYPTSETUP=y in /etc/cryptsetup-initramfs/conf-hook15:44
suavedandyWell, I dunno.15:44
fsmithrednot anymore15:44
suavedandyWell, the previous time when I proceed with GRUB installation without tinkering with /etc/default/grub it says ENABLE_CRYPTODISK isn't enabled.15:45
suavedandyDid I just need to enable it and not change anything else?15:46
fsmithredyou don't have a separate /boot partition? Then you do need a line in default/grub15:47
suavedandyNo, I don't. /boot is on the encrypted partition.15:47
fsmithredecho -e "\nGRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y\n" >> /target/etc/default/grub15:47
fsmithredfrom the installer15:48
suavedandyThat's it?15:48
suavedandyI've just wasted my time on that sed command.15:48
fsmithredthen grub knows to unlock the luks volume to find what else it needs15:48
fsmithredyou obviously wanted to understand about quoting variables in sed15:49
fsmithredotherwise you would have done it the quick way and be onto something else by now15:49
suavedandyActually, I just wanted to insert that UUID in there.15:50
suavedandyThat too but it was a secondary goal.15:51
fsmithredI don't think you need to, but I could be wrong. Maybe btrfs needs something different.15:51
fsmithredbut if luks is the lowest layer, telling grub to use cryptodisk is probably enough15:51
suavedandyBecause, well, I'm tired to type UUIDs all the time. My vision sucks and making sure that every character is correct is hard.15:51
suavedandyI shall not waste my time any longer then.15:52
fsmithredlet us know how it works out15:52
suavedandyAnd it's good that you told me that CRYPTSETUP=y isn't needed. I went back and noticed that I haven't put "y" to the variable.15:53
suavedandyThat would've been a disaster.15:53
suavedandyWell, GRUB's installed. GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT still only has quiet.15:58
suavedandyI have a question, fsmithred. When installing Debian on encrypted partition with a standard method the installer adds the discard option to /etc/crypttab. Is it continuous TRIM?16:01
masonsuavedandy: It means TRIM is passed through. It doesn't speak to the schedule or style.16:04
suavedandyAh. And if I change the crypttab do the changes apply after a reboot?16:05
suavedandy"error: compression type 0x3 not supported"16:06
suavedandyMaybe I needed to upgrade stuff…16:08
masonsuavedandy: I've not followed this closely, but GRUB might not be happy with newer LUKS.16:08
masonsuavedandy: I tend to avoid this entirely by having my /boot unencrypted.16:08
fsmithredmason you're right. If /boot is part of the encrypted partition, it has to be luks type116:10
suavedandyWell, when I formated, I set --type to luks1.16:15
fsmithredthat's correct16:26
suavedandyOh, shit. Here we go again.
fsmithredadding CRYPTSETUP=y would not be a disaster16:27
fsmithredI think you only need that to force cryptsetup into the initramfs when the system is not encrypted16:27
fsmithredpretty sure it's automatic now if cryptsetup-initramfs is installed16:28
fsmithredsuavedandy, are you doing this in chroot?16:29
suavedandyOH, SH--16:29
fsmithredyou need to bind-moun proc dev and sys16:29
suavedandyI did an oopsie.16:30
fsmithreddon't feel bad, I always try to reboot from a chroot16:30
suavedandyDo I… upgrade again or… reinstall?16:30
suavedandyAfter the upgrade crashed.16:31
fsmithredthat was update-initramfs16:31
fsmithredyou need to run it again after you create the missing directories16:31
fsmithrednot create16:31
fsmithredmount them from the real system16:31
fsmithredmount --bind /sys /mnt/sys16:32
fsmithredassuming you're going to chroot whatever is mounted at /mnt16:32
fsmithreddo same with /proc and /sys16:32
suavedandyYou think the system is fine?16:32
fsmithredthen chroot /mnt and run update-initramfs again16:32
fsmithredyou have to bind-mount sys proc dev to the chroot if you want to do certain tasks16:32
fsmithredlike grub-install or update-initramfs16:33
fsmithred"Can't open /proc/mounts. No such file or directory."16:33
suavedandyI understand.16:33
fsmithredyou might need to do16:34
fsmithredCRYPTSETUP=y update-initramfs -u16:34
suavedandyI mean, I know that you need to bind proc, dev and sys16:35
suavedandyI just forgot.16:35
suavedandyAs always.16:35
onefangThat's what scripts are for.16:35
fsmithredyeah, so I think everything should still be ok. Just repeat it.16:35
suavedandyStill. Compression not supported.16:43
suavedandyI did format in the LUKS1 format, I swear.16:43
suavedandyCan it be the zstd compression?16:44
fsmithredor where is that?16:44
suavedandyOn my encrypted partition.16:44
suavedandyI installed Devuan with zstd compression.16:45
suavedandymount -o subvol=@,compress=zstd16:45
fsmithredI'm confused. You encrypted twice?16:46
fsmithredI thought the whole thing was on a luks partition16:46
fsmithredi.e. btrfs is inside luks16:46
suavedandyCompression does not equal encryption.16:46
fsmithredsorry, I'm not fully awake today16:46
suavedandyBtrFS is inside LUKS and has zstd compression.16:47
fsmithredmaybe you need to have /boot as a separate un-compressed subvolume16:47
fsmithredjust a guess16:47
suavedandyYou think so?16:47
fsmithredor find out if there's a way to tell grub to use zstd16:47
suavedandyAccording to a topic on Arch's forums, it seems to only affect the zstd compression. The lzo compression works fine.16:49
suavedandy"I rebooted and I found grub rescue because grub didn't goes with compress level 3."16:49
suavedandyPerhaps GRUB's too old on Devuan.16:50
suavedandyBig oof.16:50
fsmithredI didn't read it16:50
fsmithred2018 should be in debian/devuan somewhere16:51
suavedandyWill try with lzo then.16:51
suavedandyfsmithred: Don't forget that I'm on Buster. Some packages can get pretty old there.16:54
fsmithredbeowulf has grub 2.02, chimaera has grub 2.04 which is probably new enough for zstd16:54
fsmithredyeah, same16:54
suavedandylzo it is then.16:54
suavedandyAs I remember, it is for "Lempell-Zev-Something."16:55
suavedandyI don't remember the guy with his last name starting with "O."16:56
suavedandyfsmithred: Now I'm thinking. If there's automatic compression, what happens when you share 7-ZIP files between PCs? After all, it's compression within compression.17:00
fsmithredcompressing compressed stuff doesn't make it much smaller, and I think it sometimes can make it bigger.17:08
fsmithredgzip an mp3 file won't give you much17:09
suavedandyI'm just thinking how it affects transmitting files between the computer with compression and computer with no compression.17:10
suavedandyIs the file uncompressed first?17:11
fsmithredyeah, if the compression is at the level of the filesystem, then it gets uncompressed when you boot up17:13
fsmithredno, maybe that's wrong17:13
fsmithredI'm thinking of encryption again17:13
fsmithredgonna go move firewood. I'm good for that right now.17:13
suavedandy"Accessing a byte in the middle of the given 128 KiB range requires to decompress the whole range."17:14
suavedandyHow often do backports get upgrades?18:28
suavedandyfsmithred: I have both grub-common, grub-efi and grub2-common installed. Which of these are unnecessary?19:54
fsmithredsuavedandy, if you are booting uefi, you need grub-efi-amd64 and grub-efi-amd64-bin. The -common packages will be automatically installed. Don't fight with it.20:24
fsmithredif you are booting with secure boot, you need grub-efi-amd64-signed20:26
suavedandyYou can use secure boot?20:36
suavedandyThe more you know…20:36
eyalrozHello Devuaners,20:54
eyalrozwhere does one get installation images of Devuan Chimaera?20:55
eyalrozThey don't seem to be available on the mirrors, e.g.:20:55
masoneyalroz: Typically you don't install testing directly, you upgrade from the latest stable.20:59
masonDoesn't mean someone can't make an install image, of course.21:00
brocashelmeyalroz: i know fsmithred hosts a few experimental refracta (devuan-based) chimaera images21:01
brocashelmuse at your own risk21:01
brocashelmi like refracta better as far as ootb goes. ticks most of the right boxes for a starting debian install21:02
fsmithred is much more interesting21:06
eyalroz@mason: Why don't I install testing directly?21:27
fsmithreddebootstrap is probably the only way right now21:28
fsmithredwell, other than my experimental chimaera isos21:28
eyalrozI think Debian offers installer images of bullseye:
fsmithredthose have openbox, lxpanel and lxterminal21:28
fsmithredyeah, I would advise against installing debian and then migrating to devuan21:29
eyalrozfsmithred: That's not what I meant...21:29
fsmithredespecially since we don't have a guide for it yet, which means you would be the trailblazer21:29
eyalrozI mean that if Debian offers images of its testing, why shouldn't we offer the same?21:29
miskatonicno one makes a ratpoison iso, so I always have to do everything by hand21:29
fsmithredI agree we should21:29
fsmithredand maybe we will after we get the beowulf point-release out, which should be any week now.21:30
eyalroz(sorry for using the first person plural, I'm not really part of the project)21:30
fsmithredyou're part of the community21:30
* eyalroz grins21:30
miskatonicratpoison the window manager21:31
fsmithredis there a file manager that goes with it?21:31
fsmithredtrying to remember a name21:32
fsmithredoh, I'm thinking of rox, not rat21:32
miskatonictrue ratpoisoners use a terminal file manager or unix command line utilities21:33
fsmithredmeeting time. bye.21:33
brocashelmi agree with officially distributing non-lts builds. i've already been using ceres for a lot longer than beowulf and ascii combined21:36
eyalrozfsmithred: When you create such an image, then, in addition to publishing it on the website, please also post an answer here:22:25
eyalrozOn a related note...22:26
eyalrozHow safe is it, at the moment, to dist-upgrade from beowulf into chimaera?22:26
fsmithredeyalroz, I upgraded refracta beowulf to chimaera a few times, pretty easily. That's xfce without metapackages.22:28
eyalroz... what would you predict for Cinnamon?22:28
fsmithreddon't know22:29
fsmithredI won't open an account at stackexchange, but I can announce on dng mailing list and forum and here22:29
fsmithredor email me in a few weeks and ask me about it22:30
eyalrozgood enough.22:30
eyalrozOn an unrelated note - a couple of points about Devuan financies22:30
eyalroz1. There's a typo in the FY 2019 financial report. is a "stichting", not a "stitching".22:30
clortwhat is a stichting22:31
eyalroz2. How is the project doing financially this year? I see the FY 2019 report which suggests quite a bit of money has been amassed. Has the same trend (of slow increase in funds) continued?22:31
fsmithredlast I heard we still have a lot of money22:32
fsmithreda lot for us22:32
eyalrozIn that case, maybe some money could be spent on some kind of promotional efforts. I was specifically wondering if there were T-shirts or large posters one could get.22:34
eyalroz(that might not even need to be a money-loser, it could be an at-cost kind of a thing)22:34
eyalrozI realize right now is perhaps not the best time for T-shirts - since it's winter and there's covid-19 - but next year, if things improve22:35
onefangIt's only winter on half the planet.22:38
suavedandyfsmithred: Is GRUB backported?22:39
fsmithredsuavedandy,  I don't know.22:41
fsmithredno grub-efi-amd64 in beowulf-backports22:41
suavedandyWell, that sucks. Now I have to do it all over again.22:42
* suavedandy is severely upset22:42
debdogeyalroz: there is some merch
suavedandyGoddamnit. No purple.22:49
suavedandyI want to paint myself in the forum's color scheme.22:49
suavedandyIt just looks so right.22:49
suavedandyDo the devs get any money from this?22:53
eyalroz@debdog: Those are ok, but they do basically nothing to attract the attention of people who don't already know what Devuan is.22:54
eyalroz... but they are also extremely expensive. 20 EUR for a T-shirt, delivery not included?22:56
eyalroz~10.5 USD + 1.5 USD shipping to where I live22:57
eyalroz(that's for Arch Linux)22:57
eyalrozOh... Devuan face masks :-)22:58
eyalrozthat's a thought for ya.22:58
debdogthat's too political22:59
suavedandyKinda agree, for $20 it's not particularly fancy.23:02
suavedandyYou can get something like this for $15.
suavedandyIt's not just a logo. There's, like, a girl sitting on top of a huge pile of coins, a bunch of dudes lying on the ground. Like, really detailed stuff. Especially for a T-shirt.23:08
suavedandyJust saying.23:09
suavedandyIt's also purple.23:14
fsmithredeyalroz, suavedandy, you can also download the devuan logo and print your own iron-on for any T-shirt, mask, underwear, whatever...23:15
eyalrozYeah, that doesn't look that great. But the point is - it should be some slogan and graphic which emphasizes the point of Devuan (at least the generic "Software freedom your way", and hopefully better and more expressive)23:17
fsmithredthe T-shirts from the conference were nice. I don't know if there are any left. If so, they are probably at the office in Amsterdam23:18
fsmithredit was a smaller devuan logo on the left upper chest and a big swoosh on the back. White on black shirt.23:20
suavedandyIf only I could print T-shirts.23:21
fsmithredyou can print iron-on decals23:22
fsmithredI think any inkjet printer will do it23:22
miskatonicdo inkjets work with non-proprietary drivers?23:22
suavedandyKek, you can probably take the first picture of the Shantae T-shirt design, put it into waifu2x to increase the detalization, make the BG transparent in Photoshop and print it out.23:23
suavedandyThat would prob be hella mean but hey, you can do that.23:23
suavedandyAny inkjet printer… except the black-and-white ones.23:24
suavedandyBecause I only have this.23:24
suavedandyYes, I'm poor and this is my old school printer.23:24
miskatonicwhy do colour inkjets work without proprietary drivers, whereas bw ones do not?23:25
suavedandyI don't think it even prints properly now. It groans like an old man.23:25
fsmithredusing a 25 year old laser printer here.23:26
fsmithredI don't know about inkjets.23:26
suavedandymiskatonic: Maybe because they're old and aren't manufactured anymore.23:26
suavedandyAlso, the older the hardware, the less likely the Linux kernel supports it. Because there's a lot of that stuff.23:27
suavedandyAnd more companies are using OSS nowadays. In the 80's noone even knew what the hell open-source is.23:29
golinuxPlease take to offtopic.  Not a devuan support question anymore23:29
clortgot to have those serial numbers in the microdots :P23:30
qaluHintall a old one? lol23:30
qaluHsafer u cant be23:30
suavedandyDamn it. It's night again. Need to finish with the installation, quick.23:36
suavedandyGoddamn, goddamn, goddamn.23:36
suavedandyI'll never get a normal sleeping habit. ;(23:42
qaluHim done, just believe, i could believe it too that im getting my shit done today23:46

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