libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2021-01-28

DashiePiefsmithred, are you here?00:19
fsmithredDashiePie, what's up?00:26
DashiePieI found a line in my Xorg.0.old log, but upon googling, it seems possibly irrelevant00:27
DashiePie[    30.897] (II) systemd-logind: logind integration requires -keeptty and -keeptty was not provided, disabling logind integration  it's this, though00:27
fsmithredis libpam-elogind installed?00:27
DashiePieI think it's because I logged in through a VT00:28
fsmithredyou used startx?00:28
DashiePiedon't you remember why I'm using startx?00:28
fsmithrednot really00:29
fsmithredI talk to a lot of people00:29
DashiePieit's because authentication fails in VT7 for some unknown reason00:30
fsmithredyeah, you tried a couple different display managers, I think00:30
gnarfaceuh, the stock install only has 6 virtual terminals... so i think i've discovered the answer to that mystery...00:31
gnarfaceyou should be able to pass command-line parameters to startx00:31
DashiePieI'm on Chimaera because I upgraded, does that make a difference?00:31
gnarfacestartx -- -keeptty00:32
gnarfacetry it00:32
gnarfacetry it on VT600:32
gnarfacethe only way in which i'd expect chimera to change it is if it's broken00:33
gnarfacei can tell you for sure that i use startx, and i don't need to do this though, so something is definitely wrong00:33
DashiePiehonestly, I'm pretty much done with this computer00:35
fsmithredstartx works in chimaera here00:36
DashiePiehopefully within the next week or so, I'll have a completely new one, with shiny new parts I will have put together myself00:36
fsmithredwe might have new isos by then00:36
fsmithredbeowulf point-release00:36
DashiePiethis one crashes and burns, I can't get the driver stabilized, I mean, honestly00:36
DashiePiegpu driver*00:36
DashiePieI apologize, but for my new computer, I'll be using Artix instead00:37
fsmithredoh, ok00:37
DashiePie3700X + 5700 XT00:37
systemdleteGot everything working with my new board, except for nvidia -- nouveau having serious problems.   I'd like to switch to the nvidia (non-free) drivers.  What is the best route for this?   I see a lot of packages for nvidia but I'd like to install one and have it figure out how to install the others, if possible.02:06
systemdleteOr, if you know a list of all the dependencies, that would work also.02:07
systemdleteThe target system is ascii.02:07
systemdletedo I need to completely remove nouveau?02:36
fsmithred no02:37
systemdletehow will the boot know which one to load and use?02:38
systemdletewhat do  I need to do to get nvidia proprietary drivers working?02:39
fsmithredI haven't done it in 10 years. Check the debian wiki02:39
systemdleteso nouveau is working for you?02:39
systemdleteMine is a gt710.02:42
fsmithred GT218 [GeForce 210]02:43
systemdleteso maybe it is just 710 that is buggy02:43
systemdletedid you have to do any nouveau-specific config (or boot cmd line changes)?02:44
systemdletethanks for directing me to the debian wiki; following those instructions now02:46
Nematocystany way to recover a borked system?  most commands fail with requiring GLIB 2.30.  tried to upgrade beowulf to ceres, updaing sources.list. "apt update && apt dist-upgrade" failed due to: libc6-dev breaks libgcc-8-dev.  so with sources.list still at ceres, ran "apt install gcc-8-base"04:36
Nematocystthis failed with needed by tar,ls,most everything now.  system won't do much...  had to poweroff because nothing in xfce worked at that point04:36
fluffywolfyou could try reinstalling the base system from install media, but your best bet might be just copying off your data and reinstalling.04:37
Nematocysti'm fine with that.  any way to install ceres directly?  i had a mostly blank system.  no data loss other than browser tabs04:37
fluffywolfI'm not sure.  I try to avoid doing things that break my system, like installing ceres.  :)04:38
Nematocystwell unfortunately i need more up to date kernel due to my radeon APU.  running a different distro right now, but kinda want to go back to devuan which i ran for years before getting this box04:40
fluffywolfyou can always build the kernel you want on stable or testing.04:41
Nematocystok.  thx.  have enough to go on.04:42
fluffywolf5.9 is available pre-built for beowulf if you enable backports, if that's new enough for your hardware.04:44
Nematocystit's enough for stability.  but there are irritants, some of which are addressed in 5.10.  it's hard to believe this 3+yr old cpu/gpu combo still has unaddressed issues.  must not be popular enough to get much attention04:48
fluffywolfunless you really, really want to run ceres (i.e. have your system break randomly), I'd suggest just building the latest kernel under beowulf.04:50
Nematocystwell what i want isn't really available... up to date software on devuan.  ran devuan from 1.0 until last year when i got this box, so i know exactly what running stable is like.  kinda pain to build everything you want that's more recent.  flatpak is one option that worked for some things.04:55
fluffywolfdevuan, like debian, is based on the idea of running tried-and-tested software...  a rolling distro is another option.  devuan chimaera/testing is also more current, without the constant breakage of ceres.04:57
Nematocystyeah, on a rolling distro now.  but it has systemd04:57
Nematocysti tried mx briefly before settling here.  didn't like it.  forget why04:58
n4dirVoid is pretty up to date minus systemd05:03
n4dirrepo is a bit small, depends what software you use/need, of course05:03
Vatumis systemd made by jews?06:39
masonVatum: Are you looking to be banned?06:43
masonplasma41: ^06:43
Vatumexcuse my french06:46
alvhi all !!!18:10
alvthere is the devuan meeting this evening !!!18:11
alv21:30 CET i believe !18:11
alvit's on !18:12
debdog# Devuan meet 2021-01-28 @20:30 UTC18:13
debdogPad is here:
debdogMeet here:
debdog   * Please post notes prior to the meet.18:13
debdogfrom the email ^18:13
asdflkjbtw, is there a simple way to use `date` or another command to convert a time (like 21:30 CET) to my local time?18:15
gnarfacethere should be, but i forget the command18:20
gnarfaceall i can think of is the way i'd do it in javascript or php18:20
gnarfacealthough, just in case you aren't clear on this: "date" will do this automatically for your local time if you install tzdata and set it to your timezone18:21
gnarfacefor your system time i mean18:21
DashiePieyou can maybe do it with google too, I've done it with CST to EST18:24
masonasdflkj: Yes. date -d18:24
masonasdflkj: Described in the man page.18:24
asdflkjmason: thank you! I’ve actually been wanting this for a long time18:26
asdflkjit worked18:26
masonasdflkj: It's useful.18:26
asdflkjyes, I’ve wanted it many times before and had to resort to DDG18:26
asdflkjeither I’m bad at searching or it’s surprisingly hard to web search, all I get is results about using `TZ=xxx date` to convert the *current* time18:28
gnarfacehmmm, in my head i thought i recalled that it was the actual "date" command itself that could do it, but consulting the man page i recalled also trying it and not figuring out how to not set my time at the same time18:32
apollo__date --date="2020-12-20 10:03 GMT"18:36
apollo__apollo__, gives Sun Dec 20 02:03:00 PST 2020 on my system18:37
apollo__# date --date="2020-12-20 10:03 GMT"18:37
x200guyHello. I'm using Debian for a long time. I don't need the newest software but I want my system to be very stable, secure and free as in freedom. I've looked at the Devuan project some times but didn't consider it as an alternative for my daily driver. Now I am considering it because I want to get away from systemd. How does Devuan compare to Debian security wise? I guess there are many more people working on Debian than on19:38
x200guyDevuan? Can Devuan be as stable, secure and maintained as Debian is?19:38
Atari-FroschIt is.19:38
hagbard_Devuan is mostly Debian. Just without systemd.19:39
DHEmany packages come straight out of debian unmodified, which means it should pick up updates nigh-immediately19:39
x200guyIt is a fork so it is developed independently right?19:39
hagbard_Therefore maybe even more stable than debian.19:39
hagbard_Most packages a directly from the debian repository.19:39
hagbard_Just some are forked, so that they don't depend on systemd.19:40
x200guySo only the systemd related packages are modified?19:40
DHEit does mean that there's still a libsystemd package installed for dependencies of apps from debian that depend on it19:40
x200guyCan I use external repos made for Debian also in Devuan? Shouldn't be a problem as long as they don't rely on systemd right?19:42
fsmithredyou can replace libsystemd0 with libelogind019:42
fsmithredx200guy, probably yes. Some might complain about the name.19:43
golinuxOr a dependency on systemd19:43
x200guyI guess I'll give it a try. Can't hurt.19:43
fsmithredand you can change the name in /etc/os-release19:43
x200guyThank you guys! :)19:43
fsmithredif you've used debian for a long time, you'll probably feel like you just came home19:44
Wonkasooo..... Devuan testing has xen-hypervisor-4.14-amd64, not xen-hypervisor-4.11-amd64, but libvirt-daemon-driver-xen still depends on libxenmisc4.11?19:44
fsmithredmaybe from a bad trip19:44
Wonkathat's not good and even uninstallable19:44
fsmithredWonka, check debian bug reports to see if they know about it. Fix might be coming.19:49
Wonkafsmithred: debian only has libvirt-daemon-driver-xen 6.9.0-4, in testing and unstable. I am on 6.7.0-3+devuan1. Don't think Debian will fix that...19:52
fsmithredWonka, which of those are devuan packages?20:06
fsmithred(the ones with "+devuan" in the version)20:07
fsmithrednothing with libvirt or xen that I can find.20:07
fsmithredweird that didn't come up with apt-cache search20:09
fsmithredplease file a devuan bug report for libvirt-daemon-driver-xen20:09
Wonkafsmithred: ii  libvirt-daemon-driver-xen  6.7.0-3+devuan1         amd64        Virtualization daemon Xen connection driver20:20
fsmithredyeah, I see it with 'apt policy' but apt-cache search and grep for devuan did not find it.20:23
fsmithredoh, right, because apt-cache search doesn't show the version. Getting confused with 'dpkg -l'20:24
WonkaI sent a bug report20:35
Wonkamaking the world a better place, one bug report at a time20:35

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