libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2021-05-14

john29router had Parental Control set to block it for some reason00:00
rwpIanJ, Follow-up question: With the movement to "encrypt everything" most people are moving away from git:// and over to the (differently problematic) https:// protocol for anonymous clones.  I am curious about the considerations for such things?02:49
adhocnot to mention the CPU over head for large numbers of small transactions02:51
hagbard_Doesn't devuan have an "experimental" repo?11:47
djphhagbard_: ceres, I think?11:50
hagbard_Isn't ceres the equivalent of "unstable"?11:51
gnu_srs2hagbard_: ceres corresponds to sid/unstable yes. experimental is experimental, see
hagbard_That's what i thought, but experimental seems to 404.12:04
xinomilotry devuan/ experimental, not merged/12:06
hagbard_that's what it was, thanks.12:08
djphugh, yeah ... I really oughta know by now "coffee before answering questions"12:14
FranzHi there, I'm looking for a way to create a devuan beowulf (kde) usb presistant stick. Does it work with makeusb?13:10
FranzHi there, I'm looking for a way to create a devuan beowulf (kde) usb persistant stick. Does it work with makeusb?13:11
xinomilomight be easier with refracta :
xinomilodon't know about makeusb..13:17
Franzthx xinomilo, I'll have a look. Have U worked with refracta? NASA-Science?13:18
xinomilono, just used it a very long time ago.. but i know fsmithred is the most helpful person around, if you need anything on refracta :)13:19
onefangfsmithred is one of the Devuan devs, he created refracta.  But I thought gnarface was the most helpful?13:21
onefangOh wait, yes fsmithred is the most helpful about refracta.  B-)13:22
fsmithredand I've even had one cup of coffee already13:22
onefangYou're good to go then.  B-)13:23
fsmithredFranz, you can make a multi-boot usb with persistence using refracta2usb13:23
fsmithreddocs are at, actual packages are at my sourceforge site. I'll get the link.13:23
fsmithredrefractainstaller and refractasnapshot are in devuan repos13:24
xinomiloany plans for refracta2usb ?13:25
fsmithredI dread working on it. It's a mess.13:25
fsmithredhi jess13:26
FranzThx for the infos :) Trying to create a "take-away-desktop" for different PCs. My preferenced DE is KDE. Is this (hopefully easy) possible?13:27
fsmithredyeah, I've made live snapshots with kde13:28
fsmithredinstall the system you want on hardware or in VM, turn it into a live-iso with refractasnapshot, then put it on usb with refracta2usb or install the system with refractainstaller.13:29
FranzSounds so easy by your mouth...13:29
fsmithredit is, as long as you don't try to over-think it13:30
fsmithreddo read the docs for installer and refracta2usb.13:30
fsmithredread the config files, too. I like comments.13:32
fsmithredthat's ambiguous, isn't it?13:32
Franzyessir ;) I've already installed Beowulf with KDE on my HDD, so I have to create an iso-File of it with refractasnapshot and then with refracta2usb -> usb (With refracta2usb-2.4.3.deb?)13:33
fsmithredif it's a brand new installation without all your personal files/keys/whatever, you're good to go.13:34
fsmithredIf you have stuff you don't want to share, take a look at the rsync excludes file13:34
FranzIs it then "persitent" on the stick13:34
fsmithredyou first make a bootable live-usb13:35
fsmithredthen you can create persistent volumes - either partitions or loopback files13:35
fsmithredand those can be encrypted if you want13:35
Franzsounds great, could the "system on stick" be also updated?13:37
fsmithredyeah, if you set it up for full persistence.13:37
fsmithredthe persistent volume holds a writeable overlay13:37
FranzYou don't have a "DIY for dummies" manual for this by accident?13:38
fsmithredif you wanted, you could have different persistent volumes for the same live system.13:38
fsmithredthe readme is accessible from the program13:38
fsmithredI think that one has a quick-start guide13:39
Franz:D RTFM, got it13:39
Franzthx 4 ur time13:39
FranzI'll be back :) By.13:44
tsadokWorking live USB is easier than live CD used to be, because you don't have to mess with things like unionfs.15:06
iv4nshm4k0vtsadok: I beg to differ; if you want for your "Live" media to come to pristine-clear state after reboot (and I do), you need unionfs (or 'overlay' as it's called nowadays.)15:07
tsadokAh, yes, if you want that, then you do have to do those things.15:08
systemdlete2Having trouble installing python module "quadpy" -- getting a memory error.15:08
tsadokBut with bootable CDs, you had no choice, the root fs *had* to be read-only, due to physical limitations.15:08
tsadoksystemdlete2: Are you installing it using apt, or some other way?15:09
iv4nshm4k0vActually, that's how I distinguish "Live" from "flash-based" installs: the former relies on overlay, and the latter doesn't.  Moreover, IME USB flash tends to be somewhat unreliable.  So I configure my Live installs to copy the .squashfs image to RAM and run from there.  Also saves RAM space when compared to RAM-based non-overlay setup.15:10
systemdlete2tsadok:  I'm trying it this time with --no-cache-dir and it seems to be working.15:10
systemdlete2(I shoulda searched before coming here to cry about it --- sorry)15:11
tsadokEh, as long as you're using apt (not, say, pip), this is arguably the correct venue for your question.15:12
tsadokOh, pip.  Ugh.15:12
systemdlete2double Ugh.   Maybe triple.  One of many reasons I hate python15:12
tsadokThe thing I can't figure out about pip, is why a system that's _twenty years newer_ than, can manage to be consistently worse.15:13
systemdlete2Yeah, I rarely, if ever, have problems with cpanm15:13
iv4nshm4k0vtsadok: Twenty years less to do all the debugging, 'haps?15:13 does have limitations.  Downgrading is a nightmare, for instance.  I don't wanna oversell it.15:14
tsadokapt is better15:14
tsadokI try to install modules via apt whenever they're packaged for it.15:14
iv4nshm4k0vtsadok: FWIW, APT / dpkg design's explicitly permits it to fail on downgrade as well.15:15
tsadokSure.  It doesn't always know what to do about dependencies in that situation.15:15
iv4nshm4k0vtsadok: Also, newer version's .postinst can upgrade your conffiles and databases, but lower version's one couldn't possibly know how to downgrade them.15:17
iv4nshm4k0vI prefer APT for the second set of eyes to watch for security issues.15:17
systemdlete2tsadok:  In my case, I constantly run into the situation where there is no apt package for some perl module.15:18
tsadokTheoretically, the solution to that would be a .downgradeinst in the newer package.15:18
tsadokBut getting maintainers to all support that...15:18
tsadoksystemdlete2: Yeah, I get that too.15:18
tsadokI had to decide whether to use scrypt, for example, which is theoretically superior to bcrypt but the Perl module isn't packaged for apt.  I ended up going with bcrypt but designing my code so I can easily change it later.15:19
systemdlete2Has the software dev world moved beyond linux lately or something (say in last 5 years)?  It seems like no one is interested any longer in even merely maintaining stuff.  I see a lot of packages that are no longer maintained.  and bugs that will never get fixed, per various trackers.15:20
tsadokThat's not new.15:20
systemdlete2sure, there have always been packages that were unmaintained.  But it seems like there are a lot more cases of it nowadays -- I run into it frequently.15:21
tsadokOpen-source developers have always been more interested in new projects than old ones, with some notable exceptions.15:21
systemdlete2Or maybe I am just more dependent on more packages these days, idk.15:21
tsadok(There's no trouble finding people interested in working on the kernel, no matter how old it is, for example.)15:21
tsadoksystemdlete2: if you've been around longer, you're more used to more older things, and not as interested in the new hotness.15:22
* tsadok still uses SeaMonkey as his main web browser. The kids are all like "What, you're still using Chrome? My *grandma* uses Chrome..."15:22
systemdlete2I'm from the last century...15:23
systemdlete2We only had to worry about nuclear annihilation back then.15:23
systemdlete2software, generally, continued to work as usual.15:24
tsadokEh, I remember when we took it for granted that all web browsers crashed several times an hour.15:30
tsadokOperating systems stayed configured the way you configured them, though.  They didn't arbitrarily decide to change their network config and lose track of your printer one day, just because it was Tuesday.15:32
systemdlete2yes, ^^15:39
luser978well rh and ubuntu follow windows bug for bug16:02
Franz@fsmithred my first try did (mostly) work :)17:46
needsahandHello, any advice for getting Ath9k Atheros usb dongle awus34nha to work after trying the Ath9k firmware?19:18
needsahandThe cd that came with it is loaded with realtek drivers19:18
jyrihave you tried without specifying any drivers with WPA supplicant?19:35
needsahandHmm, No not yet but need to install deb with phone19:37

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