libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2021-06-08

KatjeWoo! it is a good day. I deployed 3 servers running devuan into production16:24
Katjeand aside from having to spend 5 mins debugging why eth2 didn't work (spoiler, I plugged the cable into eth3)16:24
Katjeperfectly, first time16:25
daimonhey all I just installed pidgin-otr ... the binary name however does not seem to be 'pidgin'  is there anyway I can derive the binary it installed from the package16:46
daimonapt binary_name pidgin-otr16:46
daimonor something16:46
daimonah because -otr is  the plugin..16:46
GyrosGeierdpkg -L package | grep usr/bin16:47
GyrosGeierthat should work in most cases :)16:47
daimoncheers :)16:47
sgageSynaptic will tell you all the files installed by a package - it is useful sometimes.16:47
schillingklaussynaptics is for gui and mouse fetishists, so I have never used it16:49
masonKatje: Nice, good to hear.17:08
sgageYou do not have to be a gui/mouse 'fetishist' to sometimes find a tool useful.17:09
sgageBut now we know you're speshul. :-)  Seriously, I agree that it is good to use17:10
sgagethe command line tools whenever possible.17:10
UsLI've experienced synaptic to sometimes install stuff better than apt or apt-get. I can't remember what it was, but I remember trying with apt first. The package failed. So, remove --purge and then just by a fluke I tried it with Synaptic and then the package worked. Ever since that I'm always a bit weary of apt not doing it's job. But it is so much easier to do stuff in the terminal than click around in the gui.17:28
UsLs/sometimes/one time17:28
rmtry aptitude for that17:30
rmdoesn't have to be a GUI tool, aptitude has much better dependency resolution than apt or apt-get, too17:30
UsLright. I felt it was something like that. A missing dep17:31
brocashelmisn't apt an ubuntu thing that brought over to debian?17:31
fsmithredno, apt is debian's invention17:32
fsmithredupdate-notifier is from ubuntu, I think17:32
brocashelmi thought it was shortened from aptitude to apt for "convenience"17:33
fsmithrednope. apt = Advanced Package Manager17:33
fsmithredand it was way ahead of the other distros at the time17:34
brocashelmi see17:34
fsmithredmaybe I'm not so good with the alphabet17:34
brocashelmadvanced package tool, lol17:34
fsmithredthanks, I was drawing a blank17:35
UsLI was like, Tuner..17:35
fsmithredTerminal (because I was just reading about terminal fonts)17:35
brocashelmso, it was apt-get first, right?17:35
fsmithredthen aptitude, which includes the curses interface17:35
brocashelmgot it17:36
fsmithredwhich I think is the next gen from dselect17:36
fsmithredgod that was a horror17:36
fsmithredprobably because I tried to install debian like I installed suse or redhat.17:37
fsmithredit's easier to just let the installer do its thing and add what I want later17:37
schillingklausdoes aptitude work well on devuan? On antix is is almost useless as it does not handle antix's own creations17:37
fsmithredyes, aptitude works on devuan like it does on debian17:37
brocashelmdevuan basically is debian17:38
fsmithredif you get stuck with apt or apt-get, try aptitude for alternate solutions17:38
brocashelmminus the systemd17:38
brocashelmyou can't get more debian than devuan for any of debian's downstream distros. antix, mx, ubuntu, mint, etc. have all become too "diverse"17:39
UsLantix and mx should base of of devuan isntead.17:40
UsLand help with upstream stuff17:40
brocashelmthere are distros based on devuan, though :)17:41
schillingklaussuch as refracta, star, miyo,...17:42
brocashelmlike refracta (which i use), miyo, michaels devuan edition, virage, etc.17:42
brocashelmso you don't have to strictly use vanilla devuan if you want something based on devuan17:42
schillingklausrefracta is the work of the great fsmithred17:43
brocashelmit's the best one IMO17:43
UsLyeah, seems to know what he's about..17:43
UsLI might try it on a laptop I was handed.17:44
brocashelmi kept distrohopping back and forth with devuan ascii17:44
UsLit needs a ssd though. Spinning rust is so slooow.17:44
brocashelmbut refracta 10 ended that17:44
UsLthat hardlt counts as distro hopping, but I know what you mean : )17:44
brocashelmbeowulf was good and that settled it for me when it became stable17:45
brocashelmwell, i had some other isos laying around, but i'd been meaning to leave mintbuntu for good because i didn't want systemd.exe17:46
UsLyeah, that reminds me, wonder what micro$oft is announcing the 24th of June.17:47
UsLI think a linux kernel with a windows gui on it..17:47
UsLsystemd == svchost17:47
UsLthey said the biggest announcement this decade.17:48
UsLwhat ever it will be, it will probably also be horrible.17:49
schillingklausmaybe systemd coming to windows12?17:50
brocashelmwe can talk in #devuan-offtopic17:50
yeti24th of June?  ode day before the ufo report   o.O17:51
schillingklaussome devuan derivatives just add a few default desktop confs and a few themes. Others go quite deep, such as fsmithred's efforts17:52
UsLI'll check it out. Laterâ„¢17:53
UsLbut sooner though. I'm intrigued.17:53
brocashelmrefracta by default doesn't even have pulseaudio installed :D17:54
fsmithredRecommends are excluded.17:54
fsmithreda few are included deliberately17:54
schillingklausrecommends to systemd, pulseaudio, etc? or all recommends in the sense of debian/apt/dpkg?17:56
fsmithredpakcage Recommends17:57
fsmithredkeeps the cruft down17:57
brocashelmand i also like that abiword is pre-installed instead of libreoffice17:57
fsmithredand it used to fit on a CD, but no longer.17:57
brocashelmgeany is a very good gui-based text editor17:58
fsmithredabiword is so neglected.17:58
UsLlibre office is a beast. But it can do it all I guess.17:58
schillingklauswhat about gnumeric vs libreoffice-calc?17:58
UsLI like geany a lot.17:58
brocashelmi find abiword + gnumeric + dia to be good enough17:58
brocashelmlibreoffice can be "convenient", but at the price of drive space and performance (depending on cpu)17:59
schillingklausI avoid all gui editors18:00
golinuxschillingklaus: We were already informed of your proclivities.18:12
findowso many people around here18:27
findowlooks like its worth to install devuan and not be left alone18:27
findowalso anyone alive?18:29
schillingklauswe are on sleep()18:29
findowsleep or wait()18:29
findowcool. coming back after install devuan18:30
findowsysvinit or openrc?18:30
findowi guess runit doesnt make sense if there are no runit based init files18:30
findowi saw there are some on github /runit .. but only freaks go there to replace runit files against the basic files18:30
findowso question is basically sysvinit or openrc.. i guess sysvinit is fine18:31
sgagesysvinit is quite fine.18:33
findowi think its most simple too18:35
golinuxfindow: openrc uses sysvinit init files by default.18:41
golinuxiiuc, you can find some in various places18:41
gnarfaceopenrc is probably simpler to maintain in its purest form but sysvinit has a lot more support and the debian openrc we inherit is far from openrc in its simplest form18:41
gnarfacepeople run s3 and runit but they typically take even more work to set up the first time just again due to the lack of the amount of legacy support that sysvinit has18:42
gnarfaceif you plan on changing it a lot anyway, pick whatever you want to learn the most about18:43
gnarfacebut sysvinit is the one that has been tested with the most things already18:43
gnarfaceso it's the one least likely to give you problems out of the box18:43
findowi did a few tests yesterday but i couldnt see the benefit of runit or openrc18:44
findowrunit was a few seconds faster18:45
findowall of them take the same files rc*18:45
gnarfaceyea, the benefits of them are really just more about differing workflows for customization18:45
findowso .. i will go with sysvinit18:45
findowyes this i saw.. to make different or customized runlevels18:45
findowand things like that18:45
findowin my opinion.. "keep it simple"18:46
findowi really appreciate this project.. its great18:46
findowi also checked MX and antiX18:46
findowbut MX is too bloated and antiX too political :-D18:46
gnarfacewell, if you have questions someone here usually can answer them if you're patient enough18:49
gnarfaceresponse times can slow down a lot18:50
gnarfacewe don't have a lot of problems to talk about around here18:50
gnarfacenot problems with the distro, anyway18:50
gnarfacethe rest of the problems get discussed in #devuan-offtopic18:50
findowOk thank you18:51

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