libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2021-09-22

dlcusarwp, I burned my 3.0.0 net-installer ISO onto the same USB-stick and still had the XZ issue on the first laptop (Dell Latitude E6410) but it booted as expected on the second (Acer Aspire One NAV50).  So something has changed since 3.0.0, it appears.03:57
gnarfacedlcusa: how did you burn the iso?  dd?04:01
gnarfacemake sure for future burns you always run "sync" afterwards or add conv=fsync to the dd command-line04:02
gnarfaceit could cause sporadic incomplete burns (unreported) that look like a corrupt iso04:02
gnarfacethe acer doesn't look like it has enough ram for the live image, but the netinstaller should be fine04:03
gnarfacei'd try the memtest86 thing04:03
dlcusaI'll let you know how that goes--going away for almost a week very soon.04:04
dlcusaThe hour of Dell diagnostics were perfect.04:05
gnarfaceit's hard to say what could be the issue at this point it's a weird one04:06
gnarfacei'd even check to make sure the dell has the latest bios04:06
gnarfaceof course you can still make an image that doesn't use xz to boot but for an i5 it really shouldn't have to come to that04:06
dlcusaWill doublecheck that, but it's getting old.04:07
gnarfaceyea but it's still newer than everything i have here04:07
gnarfaceand they all still boot04:07
gnarfaceand it shouldn't be new enough to need a bleeding-edge kernel04:07
dlcusaYeah, that's what I mean--the newer stuff is more suspect.04:08
gnarfacemaybe the usb key is failing04:08
dlcusaIt's new.04:08
gnarfaceyea i got nothing.  it's gonna require more deductive testing to diagnose04:09
gnarfacefor the dell maybe the live image is worth a try since it has plenty of ram04:09
gnarfacei think you can find a live image with a newer kernel04:09
gnarfacejust in case the 4.19 in beowulf has some rare error with that hardware04:10
gnarfacethe acer is an Atom cpu so i have really no idea what to expect from it04:10
gnarfaceword is they're supposed to work like regular intel chips but i've never actually seen it first hand04:10
dlcusaWell, I expect this problem is going to eat up a lot of my time. :-(04:11
gnarfacei wish it wouldn't but you do know that if you can successfully use the older installer, it should be no different once upgraded after install, right?04:12
gnarfaceactually debugging the newer installer may be an unnecessary distraction here04:13
dlcusaYes, but I really like to isolate issues, even if I'm the only person affected.04:14
gnarfaceyea, i understand, and people here would like to know what's wrong too, but if you're pressed for time it's important to know that the result from upgrading to current from a 3.0.0 or 3.0.1 or 3.0.whatever iso should be identical after the fact04:15
gnarfacesome of us have machines here that haven't seen an install disk since debian04:15
gnarfaceheh, that didn't really sound as confidence-inspiring as i meant it to04:16
dlcusaWell we're all resource-poor for the most part.04:16
gnarfacemy point is just that the upgrade path should be complete regardless of which version you start from04:17
dlcusaYeah, I understand that.  But the rescue disk needs to boot reliably.04:18
gnarfacewell, yea i agree with that but you might have better luck generating one from a fully upgraded install04:18
dlcusaGotta run for a bit.04:19
rwpI might be inclined to remove the USB, then attach it again, then read back the written data and verify that what was read was what should have been written.04:21
rwpBut yes buffered I/O not having gotten written yet might cause a problem.04:21
rwpgnarface and I have disagreed on the best way to write USB devices in the past so I won't suggest anything but it can take several minutes to write and without O_DIRECT this might be in the background and not immediately indicative of when it is done writing.04:23
gnarfacehmm, it occurs to me to wonder how large the USB key is itself04:25
gnarfacesince i've had problems with Dells having size limits04:25
gnarfacethough also that should be for an earlier generation of hardware not relevant to this one04:26
gnarfacei'd still be wary if the usb key is very large, and i'd try again with a 2GB one if i had it on hand04:26
gnarface(or failing that, an optical disk)04:27
gnarfacea dell here from the core2duo era can't boot anything physically larger than 2GB from SD or USB slot, even though after boot the hardware clearly can recognize full sdxc spec cards04:28
gnarfacethe manufacturer's info doesn't bother to warn you that the bios can't before post04:28
gnarfaceand that i5 is a much newer dell but i guarantee the bios source code came from the same origin04:29
gnarface(and note: to be clear this is a fundamentally different issue from the previous generation "legacy bios 2gb boot partition" max limit issue, because partitioning a larger device down to 2GB doesn't help in this case)04:30
fluffywolfI was helping someone on a welding forum with a similar issue...  apparently if you use a SD card over 2GB for a firmware upgrade it bricks certain welders.  lol04:30
onefangis that better or worse than welding a brick?04:31
gnarfaceon that same dell i also had to resort to using lilo because for whatever reason grub takes half an hour to boot04:32
luser978Dells are always so "special". I'm sure they'll sell you a Dellium [tm] usb stick (capacity withheld, preinstalled image) which happens to work, for a firstborn or two.07:52
luser978Nobody buys Dell outside service contracts, it's Russian roulette frequently.07:53
luser978There are oceans of optiplex and so on low end refurbished workdtations on sale all the time dirt cheap, for a reason.07:55
dlcusaSo I found a 2 GB USB-stick I could repurpose, put the 3.1.1 net-installer on it, and the Dell boots it.  Thanks for the assistance, gnarface and rwp.08:06
golinuxPlease take it to #devuan-offtopic08:17
rwpdlcusa, Thanks for the closure on the problem.  I have heard of 2GB limits before so this seems to be another one of those cases.  I wouldn't have thought of it myself here though.  gnarface got that one.  Glad you got it going.08:29
dlcusaMe, too, rwp--looks like I'll be taking the Dell with Beowulf installed for the trip after all!09:01
gnarfacedlcusa: wow shocking to hear their bios still has that limitation in such a relatively late model, but i'm glad we at least diagnosed the issue09:16
gnarfacedlcusa: if you want real irony, the optical drive will still probably boot fine from a 8GB dvd09:16
dlcusaWell, progress is slowed when the PTB have agendas against some progess, right?10:02
dlcusaWell, maybe not in this particular case, perhaps.10:03
ham5urgIs there a GUI for adding a VPN in XFCE?15:35
sadoon_albader[mYou could use network manager's gui16:02
ham5urg_sadoon_albader[m, you mean to install package network-manager-gnome16:14
sadoon_albader[mthe nm-applet has that feature16:15
sadoon_albader[mor nm-connection-editor16:16
ham5urg_nm-tray is a qt application. Is this the right choice for xfce? Couldn't find package nm-connection-editor16:19
gnarfacetry "apt-cache search ^network-manager16:21
sadoon_albader[moh no16:24
sadoon_albader[mnm-connection-editor is not a package16:24
sadoon_albader[mit comes with network-manager-gnome16:24
Guest9Hi, anyone else having problems with beowulf 3.1.1 amd64 netinst accessing the mirror ? it seems like the "mirror" does not support the beowulf release...16:26
ham5urg_Does NM get listed in Xfce when adding it to the top-bar? Can't find it though16:26
onefangWhich "mirror"?  We have a bunch of them.16:27
gnarfaceGuest9: it was just working for someone else earlier16:27 is a round robin DNS that resolves to various of our mirrors.16:28
Guest9the mirrors to choose are "" and "", what is then resolved, idk. but i tcpdumped and saw that the installer stops after the webserver complains about the byterange requested.16:29
gnarfacethey both respond that way?16:30
gnarfaceif you only tried once you might have just got bad luck; try again16:30
Guest9both show the same behaviour, but i only tcpdumped one of them. and i tried multiple times.16:31
onefangBest to NOT use pkgmaster, coz the other mirrors sync to that, and things work better when everyone else isn't keeping it busy.16:31
onefang is a list of all our mirrors.16:31
Guest9onefang yes of course, but for testing why sth does not work ...16:32
onefangOh if you just are testing things, might be useful.16:32
onefang  and  run the same tests from other parts of the world.16:33
onefangProbably in a couple of weeks time I'll be able to pull my finger out and fix up apt-panopticon.  Currently the failures for are bogus, but I know why.16:36
onefangBut for now, I should sleep soon.  lol16:40
Guest9thanks for the note about the mirror status page with apt-panopticon, now testing one that shows to be correct16:40
Guest9i tried to explicitly use mirrors shown as good in apt-panopticon ( and, both failed with the same behaviour, but also without the "byte-range" complaint, so i guess it is some other problem. I also tried tunnelling the connection through http proxy to circumvent network "problems" on provider side, but17:07
Guest9without effect.17:07
Guest11Hi! I installed Java JDK from the packages, and now I realized there is no value in the JAVA_HOME environment variable. I heard it should point to the valid JDK. Is this wrong, then? If it is, is maybe the package broken?17:55
gnarfaceGuest11: nah it's just annoying, you have to set it18:15
nemognarface: is update-alternatives not sufficiently flexible enough to do things like swapping out includes for the default profile?18:21
nemognarface: I've never thought to wonder why JAVA_HOME was never set, have always just shrugged and manually fixed it18:22
gnarfacepackage maintainer's choice18:22
gnarfacesome dumb ethical thing18:22
gnarfaceyou can have multiple jdk's in theory, so they want you to have to choose which java home you use manually18:22
nemodon't get how /etc/profile.d/java_home in update-alternatives would be an ethics thing18:23
gnarfacethey do it on purpose though it does seem weird18:23
nemognarface: sure. but why not default it to the one the user selected as default18:23
nemohmmm I wonder what my gentoo does18:23
* nemo looks18:23
nemo$ echo $JAVA_HOME18:23
nemoI like that18:23
gnarfacei really don't know but it might have to do with not wanting to editing users' home dir configs toop18:23
nemoit's like update-alternatives18:23
nemobut you can still override it if you want18:24
gnarfaceya but is that set globally?18:24
nemognarface: well. sure. just as a default in /etc/profiles.d - you could still let users do whatever in their local18:24
gnarfacethis is all about it not being global too18:24
nemognarface: well it's just a default. if you're going to have a default /usr/bin/java it makes logical sense the support folder for it be global too18:24
gnarfacewhat i recall hearing was they figure it's not global and it might be different for every user so why not force everyone to set it manually so they have to choose and know what they chose18:25
nemo /etc/alternatives/java  /etc/alternatives/java-vm-folder18:25
nemosomething like that18:25
nemognarface: then there's no reason to set /usr/bin/java symlinks either surely  but. eh. whatev18:25
gnarfacei remember being really annoyed by the reasoning18:25
nemo$ ls -l $JAVA_HOME18:25
nemolrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 28 Jan  4  2020 /etc/java-config-2/current-system-vm -> //usr/lib/jvm//icedtea-bin-818:25
nemogo gentoo 😃18:25
nemodouble // is weird18:26
nemoscript bug I guess18:26
user____So, <cough>, Chimaera isn't out because the manuals are being written? I just saw a possible solution...
Guest11What is the use of /etc/profile.d/20:35
user____Guest11: when a new user account and directory is generated, files from profile.d are used to pre-populate the user dir.20:41
user____Also, default settings for various applications are stored there, when used system wide and not overridden by user settings in their dirs20:42
user____I see in there: gawk.csh vte-2.91.sh20:42
user____Guest11: if you read /etc/profile you see it invokes files in /etc/profile.d20:44
Guest11Thanks. I have,, and vte.csh here. Why would there be a shell file "java_home"?20:48
user____Should set the JAVA_HOME and other vars. Look inside it. It is a text file, be sure not to edit it.20:50
user____It's probably installed by the JDK or JRE package20:51
user____You can ask the package manager to tell you what package it belongs to20:51
user____dpkg -S /etc/profile.d/ -> libvte-2.91-common: /etc/profile.d/ ; for example20:52

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