libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2021-10-09

chozorhoHey... is anyone online who can help solve a chimaera-update-related error?04:02
Hydragyrumdon't ask to ask, just ask04:03
chozorhowell... I may have done something stupid. Originally, back in January 2021, I installed Devuan on my laptop -- so far, so good. But then in September, for some reason -- I guess out of curiosity and because I used to experiment with my Linux machines -- I added the "chimaera" to my apt-sources, tried doing apt update / upgrade, but then...04:13
chozorhoit ended up upgrading a huge number of packages, including GCC 10 and probably glibc and others... and when I rebooted, I went to enter the passphrase for my LUKS encrypted drive, but it kept aborting, and I amunable to log in. I've had to use a livecd ever since then...04:15
chozorhothe error message says " must be installed for pthread_cancel to work", which is really weird, because...04:15
chozorhoit seems awfully similar to *this* bug right here:
fluffywolfI have no idea how to fix things when they're on an encrypted drive you can't access.04:17
chozorhobut the problem is, that bug's "solution" still isn't clear to me. It's talking about keeping that shared library,, in the right directory. But even if I keep it in both /lib and in /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu, the error isn't resolved....04:17
Hydragyrumcan you open the luks encrypted volume from the livecd fine?04:17
chozorho ah, but I *can* access them, if I use a clever cryptsetup command that I launch from the livecd :P04:17
chozorhoyep :D04:18
HydragyrumI'd suggest updating the initramfs and making sure that it includes the right things04:18
Hydragyrumalso, while the may be in the right dir *on your normal root*, it's almost certainly *not* there on the initramfs04:19
fluffywolfif you chroot to the encrypted drive, do you get a working system?  if so, try apt-get update, upgrade, etc, and make sure initramfs-tools 0.140 gets installed and the initramfs rebuilt.04:19
Hydragyrumand if it's not opening your encrypted volume, I assure you that it's not looking at the files on your normal root04:20
golinuxDid you do a dist-upgrade?  Or just an upgrade?04:20
golinuxThere is a sequence to upgrading and maybe you didn't do a full upgrade.04:20
fluffywolffrom the bug report they pasted, it sounds like a bug that's been fixed in a newer version of initramfs-tools.04:21
fluffywolfso the question is how to install that newer version and have it rebuilt the initramfs when you can't boot the drive.04:21
fluffywolfand hope that fixes it.  :)04:22
Hydragyrumimportantly, you need to make sure your /boot (and other filesystems) are mounted when you do that upgrade chrooted into that install)04:24
fluffywolfhrmm, yeah, if you have them as separate partitions.  I usually don't....04:24
Hydragyrumwith an encrypted drive, you normally need to04:25
Hydragyrumor at least it's a real pain with /boot encrypted04:25
chozorhohmmm ty for the feedback. I am slowly checking these one by one (I can chroot into it, and I just regenerated the initrd in /boot)04:53
cws7788can not run " pkexec pcmanfm ",Is it lack of dependence?05:22
cws7788pokit-agent-helper-1:error response to polickit deamon : gdbus.error:org.freedesktop.polickit1.error..failed: no session for cookie05:22
cws7788Which program creates sessions?05:23
rwpcws7788, In Devuan elogind creates user sessions.  And that's about the extent of my knowledge of it.  I don't use it myself.05:49
rwpWith encrypted drives I always have /boot as a separate plain not encrypted 512MB partition.05:53
rwpSimilarly to the others I think /boot needs to be mounted in the chroot and the initramfs rebuilt after having upgraded the system.05:54
systemdleteAgain, this might be a question I should have asked back in *nix sysadmin 101:  Is there a command analogous to uptime that gives analogous statistics for I/O in the last 1,5,and 15 minutes?05:55
systemdletethank you!05:56
Hydragyrumactually, I don't know if iostat can do the "last n" that well05:57
Hydragyrum/proc/diskstats and /sys/block/*/stat may also be useful05:59
systemdletewhat I am looking for, actually, is something I can use to monitor i/o used for each file system, so actually, iostat looks promising06:00
Hydragyrumiotop may also be useful06:00
systemdleteiotop is more of a curses program I thought.  At least that is how I used it06:01
Hydragyrumyeah it is06:01
systemdleteah, -b06:01
systemdlete(batch mode)06:01
Hydragyrumsysstat may also be helpful for keeping long-term data on io06:02
systemdleteHydragyrum:  I think iotop may be more what I am looking for.  This *might* tell me who the "offenders" are...06:02
systemdlete(I'm noticing high i/o lately)06:02
Hydragyrum(sysstat's the package iostat comes from, and has options to collect/store stats)06:03
systemdletegosh.  thank you06:03
systemdleteit has been so long since I've looked at this kind of thing06:03
systemdleteMaybe i can think of a way to yank just the highest io user over the past n minutes06:04
systemdleteI think that is mostly what I am after06:04
systemdletenot to say that that one is "the pig" -- it could be that no one is being a pig.  Someone is always the highest user06:05
systemdletebut if I am noticing slow response times, that might help me target the problem.  idk06:05
Hydragyrum might help06:05
systemdletethanks once more.  pidstat looks like a candidate, based on its name..06:06
systemdletepidstat -d maybe...06:11
jlaHeya devuanitas ... fresh Chimaera install, '$ ping sirio11:09
jlaping: socket: Operation not permitted' , uh ?11:09
jlawhat am i missing ?11:09
hagbardsetcap cap_net_raw+ep /bin/ping11:16
jlaah...just like this, on bash ? Let's see...11:16
hagbardas root11:16
jlayeah... dunno why but it works , thX11:17
jlais it expected beahviour ?11:17
* jla Just wondering...11:18
hagbardTheres something in the manpage of ping about this11:23
hagbard"ping requires CAP_NET_RAW capability to..." at the bottom of it11:25
jlaweird ... feels like11:34
jlain terms of 'user experience', i mean11:35
cws7788Today, my problem has been solved, and I am very happy.12:13
cws7788edit synaptic , "Exec=pkexec synaptic"  →→12:16
cws7788edit synaptic , "Exec=pkexec synaptic"  →→ "12:16
cws7788edit synaptic.desktop , "Exec=pkexec synaptic"  →→ "Exec=sudo -b synaptic"12:18
cws7788edit synaptic.desktop , "Terminal=false"  →→ "Terminal=true"12:23
ShorTiestick it in your notes .. :/~13:41
luser978re: ping: ping uses raw datagrams and socket 0, needs permissions for this due to tighter security. on other *nixes user ping is rate limited and has some features disabled, root ping has full power.16:37
luser978ping is a DoS tool when not limited.16:38
xrogaanso is any human behavior.17:20
systemdleteam I missing glibc?   I search in apt but do not see it.  Is it in a different repo?19:44
systemdleteluser978:  How can you prevent someone from using a different version of ping (maybe by compiling it themselves) that does not prevent using it as a DoS tool?19:46
debdogsystemdlete: Package libc619:49
systemdleteah, ty19:50
systemdletehmmm.  Seems that in glibc 2.31, some floating point functions (like lchmod?) are no longer there.19:51
systemdleteIt is breaking a build.19:52
onefangMight be in the math library?19:52
onefangAre you sure it's lchmod?  Doesn't seem like a floating point function to me.19:57
systemdletefegetenv is another one19:58
bb|hcbdefinitely not math related, lchmod is bsd stuff19:59
systemdlete is an example of what I'm talking about19:59
rwpsystemdlete, It feels to me that you are building a project but missing the build dependencies?19:59
rwpStart by installing the build dependencies of the packaged version of it: apt-get build-dep foothinghere20:00
rwpThat will install the build libraries that were needed for the packaged version of it.20:00
rwpWith those installed then building the self-compiled thing will probably Just Work.20:00
systemdleteI'm building from a tarball20:01
systemdletenot a deb package, sorry20:02
rwpThat's what I thought from reading the above.20:02
rwpDon't be sorry.  But I think you are simply missing the build dependencies of that tarball.20:02
systemdletethe config is complaining that some externs are not defined.  The 2.31 glibc defined those as stubs20:03
systemdleteI'm surprised that the configure step does not indicate what to install20:03
rwpIf the program is not packaged then try installing the build-dep of the most similar thing.  Start with something like grep if nothing else: apt-get build-dep grep20:03
systemdlete(sometimes it suggests)20:03
systemdleteok, will try that20:04
rwp./configure is build by autoconf from what the programmer wrote in and is often pretty sparse.20:04
rwpBasically if the programmer didn't write something specific in there to suggest something, then there will be no suggestions.20:04
systemdleteisn't there a way for me to run autoconf myself to obtain a new configure that might include what I need?20:04
rwpAlso the *other* function of ./configure is to adapt to different systems where one might be one way and the other might be the other way.20:04
rwpYou won't need to do that.20:05
rwpIf the build dependencies are installed then ./configure will find them okay.20:05
rwpIf the build dependences are not installed then rebuilding the ./configure won't make things better.20:05
rwpWhat program are you trying to build from a tar distribution bundle?20:05
onefangThat bug report basically says these things where stubbed out from glibc, then added back again in a later version.  Specifically mentions Debian, which Devuan is based on, having the older version with the functions stubbed out.20:07
rktaI just did a 'aptitude update; aptitude safe-upgrade', 'needrestart' asked to restart some programs, I said ok. X crashed, I got weird messages on the terminal, Alt+F2, log in as root, logged in, was switched back to tty1 at the prompt, couldn't enter anything. Used Ctrl-Alt-SysReq+B to reboot. Any chance to get some logs of this to report it?20:08
rwprkta, Was one of the programs being restarted the xdm equiv such as lightdm or slim?  That would restart X when those restart.20:09
rwpThe aptitude commands you posted look okay and reasonable things to do to me.20:09
rktarwp: I don't remember. I use i3wm.20:09
rwpI  use i3 here too.  When your system boots does it boot to a text console and you start X manually with either startx or xinit or other?  Or does it boot to a graphical login manager?20:10
rktaI boot to console and use startx.20:10
rwpOkay.  (Me too.)  But then I don't know what service needrestart would have prompted for that would have crashed X.20:11
rktaThat's why I'm asking to get some logs. ;)20:11
rwpThere are only four places where this is logged as far as I know.20:12
rwp1) ~/.xsession-errors logs information from running X programs.  The stdout and stderr from all X programs are redirected there.  Filled with lots of noise.20:12
rwp2) /var/log/Xlog.0.log is where the X server itself logs information.20:12
rwp3) /var/log/syslog is where all system related logs are put.20:13
rwp4) /var/log/boot is where boot time logs are put if bootlogd is active at boot time.20:13
rwpThat's off the top of my head.  Check for typos.20:13
rwpIt seems odd to me that you were able to Alt-F2 to get to vt2, log in there, but then switching back to vt1 then was stuck not able to enter anything and needed the MagicSq key to reboot.20:14
rwpBecause if able to log in on vt2 and able to switch vts then the system didn't seem to be locked up at that time.  So then locking up after that point is...  odd.20:15
rktaYep, that was strange. On vt1 were some message which looked like being from i3status. When I logged in and was put back to vt1 the messages had stop appearing.20:16
rwpWhichever vt you are in actively should become the active /dev/console and any program that logs to the system console will have messages follow you around as you switch vts.20:17
rwpThat's rather a feature that can be pretty annoying when the system is spewing messages to the system console and you can't escape away from them because they follow you! :-}20:17
rktaThis was not what was happening.20:17
rwpI was just remarking on that because you said messages that looked like i3status messages were showing up there.  And i3status is an X thing.  So if any messages are showing up on the text console then they are likely to be system console error messages.20:18
rwpI'll just close my previous comment by saying that "dmesg -n5" can usually make the system console usable by stopping the flow of informational messages there.  Use -n3 if -n5 isn't enough.20:19
rwpGood luck!  It's becoming lunch time here.20:20
rktaIn i3status I have a 'field' to show the system temperatue which is not supported on this old device. It just shows "can't read temp", on vt1 there were messages telling me about not being able to show the temperature - not sure about the exact wording.20:20
rktaAnd I don't have ~/.xsession-errors nor /var/log/Xlog.0.log20:21
rktaAnd nothing interesting in /var/log/boot or /var/log/syslog20:25
systemdleteonefang: What do you make of the resolution to that bug?20:33
onefangIt's 4:30 AM here, and I don't want to think that hard before bed.  lol20:39
AfdalIs there some particular reason checkinstall isn't in the main Devuan repository?20:51
rwpAfdal, I see checkinstall in chimaera/main and beowulf-backports/main suites.20:54
AfdalBackports isn't enabled by default right20:54
AfdalI'm new to Devuan, what should I know about backports before enabling it?20:54
rwpBut basically as soon as chimaera releases then it will be in Devuan Stable as a released package.20:55
Afdalcheckinstall has been around forever, why's it being held back though?20:55
golinuxJust don't install everything from backports.20:56
golinuxJust dl what you need.20:56
rwpGenerally useful backports use information
AfdalYeah I already had an irritating scenario happen on *buntu before where they pushed a broken wireless library20:56
AfdalHow do I enable a repository for only one thing?20:57
rwpAfdal, It was removed due to segfaulting:
Afdaloh dear20:58
rwpIt is possible to use "pinning" to specify specific packages for special handling.  But honestly I am not more than passing familiar with pinning details.20:59
AfdalHow do I add backports but not allow it to update all the software I already have21:00
rwpSee the "man apt_preferences" page for the documentation on it.21:00
rwpBy default backports won't upgrade anything on your system just by being enabled due to a global pinning of backports at -1 or something like that.21:00
Afdaloh good21:01
rwpWhich says that if your currently installed package is the same or older than the release then you upgrade to the release.21:01
rwpBut if you have a newer installed package from backports then it prefers the version from backports.21:01
rwpWhich has the effect of manual actions being "sticky" if I can use that term.21:01
Afdalinteresting that it keeps track of what comes from backports and what doesn't21:01
rwpIf you manually install a backport then that package, and dependencies which are also pulled forward, then track backports.21:01
systemdleteis there no way to break out of an install after realizing I didn't really want to install the package?21:02
rwpBut everything else doesn't.21:02
rwpsystemdlete, Control-C?  That might leave things in an inconsistent state.  Which you can recover from.21:02
systemdletebeen there done that21:02
systemdleteit still insists on completing the install21:02
AfdalNeat, so I don't need to do any special package pinning or anything then?  Just add the repo and grab checkinstall from it?21:02
rwpIt depends upon what stage of the install is happening when the interruption occurs.21:02
rwpAfdal, Yes.  Please browse through the on how to use backports though.21:03
rwpsystemdlete, Then it is really too late to stop it.  Because to fix it later you would need to continue from there anyway.21:03
rwpIf you have packages in an inconsistent state then "dpkg --configure -a" is usually the first step at resuming things so they can get consistent.21:04
systemdlete^^ it still insists on completing it, yeah, I know21:04
rwpThen "apt-install -f" after that.21:04
systemdletewell, apt seems to kind of get "stuck" in unpacking sometimes with some packages21:04
rwpIf you are simply installing things that you don't want then you can purge them afterward and return (mostly) to where you were before.21:04
systemdletewhen I did an strace in one such instance I found out that it was doing a ton of renames21:05
rwpIf you were doing an upgrade and changing package versions then that is a little more difficult and I will say it all depends on what is happening and what you want.21:05
systemdletepurging them is not the problem.  Breaking out of a mistake is the problem.  Sounds like you can't, that's all.21:05
systemdleteso the answer to my question is "NO"21:06
rwpDowngrades can be done but it is involved and tedious and "if you have to ask..." then probably not a good plan to attempt.  (Okay to attempt if you are confident of skills to do it.)21:06
systemdleteno, there is no way to break out of a mistaken install21:06
rwpAre you upgrading?21:06
rwpFrom one OS release to another?21:06
systemdleteno, just entered the wrong package name21:06
systemdletemeant to install something else21:06
rwpThen just let it finish.  It's not the end of the world.  Then purge the package off afterward.  That's almost virtually the same result.  apt-get purge --autoremove unwantedpkgfoo21:07
systemdleteno of course it is not the end of the world!21:07
systemdletebut when it hangs there unpacking forever and ever, it wastes a lot of time21:07
systemdletesince all I am going to do is remove/purge it anyway21:07
systemdletethat was my point.21:07
rwpYes.  Wastes a lot of time.  Time to take a break and walk around and make a sandwich.  But not really any way to avoid it.21:08
systemdletety for repeating the same thing 3 times.  I get it now.21:08
Afdalbtw, coming off of a *buntu, I kind of like that adding repositories is as simple as editing /etc/apt/sources.list21:09
systemdletesorry, rwp.  It's just that this sort of thing really makes me miss rpm.  But those days are gone since I have no plans of switching to any distro that uses systemd21:09
AfdalIt probably was always that simple but there's so much extra programs to obscure what's going on21:10
Afdalon *buntu21:10
systemdleteand all the rpm distros use systemd nowadays21:10
rwpIt is mostly the same in Ubuntu at the deep technical detail.  Except that Ubuntu has like a godzillian different suites, and they sometimes conflict, making it much more problematic.21:10
rwpBackports by contrast are design to be a middle thing that is as safe as possible and that get washed away when eventually upgrading to the next release.21:10
rwpSince Devuan Chimaera is very close to release this makes using backports right now particularly a good time.21:11
AfdalMessing with repositories was always such a headache for me because it never seemed like I quite understood the "right" way to do things21:11
rwpBecause in some couple of weeks maybe (it's happening soon) one can upgrade to Chimaera and any installed backport is replaced by the newly released Stable version.21:11
Afdaloh really, that close huh?21:11
AfdalDo you recommend full reinstallation when upgrading on Devuan?21:12
AfdalI just installed this a couple weeks ago21:12
rwp*I* am an upgrade advocate.  I have a few systems that trace back to Woody days.  Upgrades traditionally have always worked in Debian.21:13
rwpUnfortunately of late that value has been lost and there have been some breaking problems.21:13
rwpSo...  I can't say it isn't in people's best interest to wash things clean with a fresh installation.21:13
AfdalBy the way I'd like to note that it was a surprise to me when I realized openrc was my init, because... I was lead to believe that the installer would ask me what init I wanted to use, but it never did :'(21:13
rwpOften that is an easy way to get everything upgraded with the least amount of muss and no fuss.21:13
AfdalI prefer runit just because I've used it more but I fear messing with init replacement after installation is going to be too much a hassle21:14
rwpAfdal, What?  There is a dialog question about what init you would like to use at install time.  The default is sysvinit and OpenRC is an optional selection.21:14
AfdalThere was no such dialogue for me >.>21:14
rwpI am confident that if you have openrc that it was because it was selected at installation time.  Or that it was subsequently installed later.21:14
AfdalMaybe I'm not even using openrc...21:15
rwpThere are multiple installers.  Perhaps the one you used pre-selected it for you.21:15
AfdalHow do I check if it's openrc or sysvinit?21:15
rwpHmm....  Off the top of my head, try this: dpkg -S /sbin/init21:15
Afdaloof, guess it's sysvinit21:16
AfdalLuckily openrc and sysvinit seem to use a similar service management system21:16
AfdalI've been looking up openrc instructions21:17
rwpMaybe...  I am not sure my test there is perfect.  Let me dig a little.  Not a question I have thought about for a while.21:17
AfdalWhat's the name of Duvuan's installer again21:17
rwpBut there are also Refracta installers and others that do things differently and make pre-selected choices.21:18
rwpA lot of people really like the Refracta installer and the resulting system choices for example.21:18
AfdalI used the terminal-based refracta without any GUI helper scripts because I needed to install this remotely21:19
Afdalperhaps that's why I missed the init choice prompt?21:19
rwpYes.  That makes everything make perfect sense.21:19
rwpHere is the link I was looking for:
Afdaluh wait21:21
Afdaldo I have the name wrong21:21
AfdalRefracta is a distribution name21:21
Afdalwhat's the name of the installer though...21:22
Afdaloh refractainstaller21:22
Afdalhmm, so hard hard is it to change your init in a running system anyway21:22
Afdalhow hard*21:22
Hydragyrum>in a running system21:24
Hydragyrumso you mean replacing PID1? yeah probably not going to happen21:24
AfdalSo this is gonna require chroot shenanigans isn't it21:25
Hydragyrumnow, if you want to replace the init system to take place on next boot, that's doable21:25
Afdaloh okay21:26
Hydragyrumi.e. replace init but you're still running the old one until you reboot21:26
AfdalWell how hard is that21:26
rwpAfdal, Switching inits usually means installing the other init, then rebooting to it, then removing the old init, then rebooting again and it is done.21:26
Afdalsudo apt purge sysvinit; sudo apt install runit?21:26
Hydragyrumartix migration from systemd arch does it with possibly the hardest one to do it with21:27
AfdalSo somehow I need to tell it to boot with the other init21:27
rwpThe old adage "make before break" applies.  Install the new.  Reboot to the new.  Remove the old.  Reboot to the final configuration.21:27
AfdalIs this some instruction I need to give to initramfs or the kernel21:27
Afdalto pick the right init21:27
rwpGenerally speaking installing something will configure it to be the thing that is active.21:28
rwpFollow the release instructions is always a safe thing.21:28
Afdalwhere's that >.>21:28
rwpThat last was general information and not a specific answer to where documentation is located.  Just a race condition of messages.21:29
rwpBeowulf release notes:
rwpI think those are a little sparse for the newbie though.  Those are really pretty bare minimum.21:30
AfdalYeah I don't see anything in there about changing inits21:31
rwpLooking at the older migration documentation could be useful to get the feel of the situation.
rwpBut know that that documentation was for migrating from older releases.  So things will be mostly the same.  But different in some details.21:34
rwpBut it should get you the feel for the way things are done.  And then please feel free to ask questions.21:35
rwpHowever personally I haven't been *switching* very often.  I have stuck to my preferred.  So maybe not such a good resource.21:35
AfdalSo I guess there's typically a transition package you install that tells your kernel to switch to a different init on the next boot?21:35
Afdalwait I think I've read this wrong, nevermind21:36
rwpThe kernel's command line will boot /sbin/init and whatever that is will be the init.21:37
AfdalYeah I'm not really spotting the step here for how you manage to alter /sbin/init when you have multiple init packages installed, so that the kernel loads the right one up21:37
rwpThe default is /sbin/init but that can also be overridden on the command line by telling the kernel init=/bin/bash (a time honored debug thing) or whatever.21:37
rwpThe answer is package specific due to the actions written by the package author in the package postinst script.  Making it hard for me to give one answer.21:38
rwpBut most of the time the last one installed wins.21:38
Afdalmaybe I should just install runit, reboot, and then see what's running21:39
rwpNote that if things get into a screwed up state the installer makes a very good rescue tool.21:40
rwpBoot the installer, look under Advanced, Rescue, boot the Rescue image, and then can make tweaks and changes to the system as needed.21:40
Afdalhow's the rescue image different from the regular live image21:40
rwpThe Rescue image is very similar, uses the same core, but will say "Rescue" in the corner so you can tell them apart.21:41
rwpAfter initial questions for setup that are identical to the installer then it will offer to chroot into the target system.21:42
Afdaloh so it has some helper scripts21:42
rwpThat's basically it.  It boots.  It chroots you into the target system.  Which then you can run commands and modify things.21:42
AfdalI just spent six months debugging a GRUB problem so I've become a chrooting pro now...21:42
rwpIt will automatically activate LVM and start up RAID and so forth.  But mostly it boots when your installed system does not boot.21:43
Afdalthanks for the tips, think I'll give that a try later21:46
AfdalSo I take it when you install another init through apt, it sets the init with all the services you already have running on your current init?21:47
Afdalsets up the new init21:47
rwpThe answer to your question is complicated because really the core is simply /sbin/init and whatever is there is started by the kernel as PID 1.  Full stop.21:48
rwpThen all of the init systems try to read various init things to run from there.  All in their own unique ways.  But the good ones read the others in a compatibility layer.  Mostly.21:49
AfdalI guess what I'm asking is does your service configuration with your current init get "translated" to the other init's configuration21:49
rwpSo for example runit will read /etc/init.d/* scripts and run them at the appropriate times.  Even if there is not a native runit script.21:49
AfdalI'd probably want to move those to the canon runit directory though21:50
rwpBut if there is a native runit configuration then it supersedes the /etc/init.d/* sysv init script.21:50
rwp"move"?  Not move.  You could do nothing and things should work through the compatibility layer implemented by runit.21:51
rwpOr you could write native runit configuration for it.21:51
Afdalyeah but... that doesn't seem comfy I:}21:51
rwpOkay.  Be comfy! :-)21:52
Afdalactually the issue for me is really21:52
Afdalrunit has a simple system for adding and removing services21:52
Afdaland I want it to be consistent21:52
Afdalyou just add or remove symlinks to /var/service/21:53
Afdalbut that won't work if it's interpreting everything from the previously existing sysvinit way21:53
AfdalActually, that's Void Linux's way of doing it, anyway.  Maybe runit works different on Devuan, I dunno.21:54
rwpGo for it!  But remember the rules.  See one.  Do one.  Teach one.  After you dig though these things you must then teach one. :-)21:54
golinuxAfdal: Poke the forum for runit21:55
golinuxI'm not adventurous enough to try and alternate init but i think you still may need the sysvinit scripts21:56
golinuxSame with openrc.21:56
rwpIt is not impossible to go through and write all of your own for everything.  But it would be a lot of tedious work to do so.21:58
rwpAlso I think runit on Devuan operates the same as runit on Void.  Basically runit is runit the same everywhere.  It's the package specific configurations which vary.21:58
AfdalGot another question as I'm thinking about how to free my life from IBMware21:59
AfdalHow well does pipewire work on Devuan?21:59
Afdalis it still kind of a work in progress or21:59
Afdaldoes it make a good pulseaudio alternative now?22:00
AfdalPresuming someone has tried it in here22:00
Afdalactually that's a silly question to ask on a distro channel, nevermind22:01
rwpPeople have tried PipeWire here.  I have not.  I am looking forward to it replacing the pesky and problematic PulseAudio as soon as practical.22:01
rwpAFAIK PipeWire has not been packaged for any distro but perhaps one has picked it up.  AFAICT people who are using it have installed it themselves.22:02
AfdalI see a pipewire package in the repo22:02
rwpThen there you go.  You can tell that I am out of the loop and not a good resource for it. :-)22:06
bb|hcbyes, pipewire is in the repos; I have tried that but had to start it manually after each login (one daemon as root and a session manager as your user) ftr i use mate22:06
Afdal"And the main developer is the same who invented the pulseaudio crap." <- Uhh, what?22:07
Afdaldamnit is pipewire also IBM >:I22:07
AfdalMy god, it is...22:08
AfdalHow didn't I realize this already22:08
AfdalI'm so confused about why this even exists22:09
AfdalI guess it was attempting to pulseaudio-ify video... and ended up doing audio?22:10
fluffywolfare people seriously trying to force yet another redhat blob onto linux again?22:17
Afdalit never ends -____-22:18
systemdleteMy laptop is pretty much "quiesced" -- I have shut down most programs.  The only thing "running" per se is the desktop itself.  I have the charger plugged in and the laptop battery monitor acknowledges it is charging.  ipmi confirms this.  Yet the power level keeps dropping?22:21
systemdleteso tell me, my battery problems are related to systemd removal surgery?22:26
systemdletethat is, when devuan releases get their systemdectomy22:34
rwpsystemdlete, I doubt it.  I don't see how.  But what do I know?  Less and less each day.22:34
rwpSounds more like a failing battery to me.  I would power off and charge it without the system running and then see if the battery charges.22:35
systemdleteoh, it will.  In fact, even if I just let it run out completely, it will recharge.22:35
systemdletebut that isn't how it should work.22:35
systemdleteWhen a laptop or other device is on charger, it should be charging (and sometimes it does)22:35
systemdletethis machine has ALWAYS worked this way, since day 1.22:35
rwpI have never had a laptop that could not charge while under maximum power stress usage.22:35
rwpSo looking at what is running and using power seems the wrong thing to look at.22:36
systemdleteI didn't pay a lot for the thing.  I just wanted, badsically, a tablet that I could use occasionally22:36
AfdalThere's two things that might be the cause of your trouble, systemdlete22:37
AfdalSometimes batteries misreport their charge level to operating systems22:37
systemdleteMy gut feeling is that linux does not understand how the battery works on this machine (it's based on Intel cherry trail)22:37
AfdalI have a machine that does that22:37
Afdalwell, the battery22:37
systemdleteAfdal: Nah.  When this thing reaches 0 it will shut itself off22:37
Afdalthe other issue may be a problem with your power port on the machine22:37
systemdleteso it is reporting the real level22:37
systemdleteyeah, that could be22:38
systemdletea marginal power port.  great.22:38
AfdalI've heard that's a common problem on laptops22:38
systemdleteand smart phones22:38
Afdalyou can fix it with a soldering iron without a ton of trouble I think22:38
Afdaloh it's a phone22:38
systemdleteits a laptop22:38
Afdalthis might help you22:38
gnarfaceis it a recent laptop your'e trying to charge over usb?22:38
gnarfaceor with a 3rd party charger or something?22:39
gnarfaceon some devices it is possible to outrun the charger if it is expecting usb3 max charging speed availability and you're charging it over usb222:40
golinuxCan you please take the hardware stuff to #devuan-offtopic?22:40
systemdleteand this machine is sealed tighter than Fort Knox.22:41
systemdletegod forbid anyone can fix anything themselves anymore.  It's the Apple way these days, and that's with everything.22:41
systemdleteI can plug and unplug is a dozen times and makes no difference.  When it decides it isn't listening to the power port, its judgment is final.22:41
systemdleteit seems22:41
systemdleteAnd I am using the charger block and cable that came with the laptop22:41
systemdleteThis started as an honest software question.22:41
systemdlete(see above)22:44
golinuxsystemdlete: Everything has a beginning . . . and an end.22:49
systemdleteand a middle too!22:49
systemdlete(which is where it changed)22:49
systemdleteIt was 100% unintentional22:50
golinuxI know that.  That is what mindfullness is for.  :)22:54
_ds_Re. apt preferences: may help23:09
_ds_Afdal, rwp ↑23:11

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