libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2021-10-16

CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI'm trying to install devuan 4 on a supermicro tower, but it's not wanting to boot no matter what00:29
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand it takes 3 minutes to post each time i retest something00:29
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi've tried putting the usb stick in the on-board usb 3.0 header, i tried enableing legacy bios boot and i've tried enabling legacy vga oprom00:30
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit sees the drive as a boot option but in uefi mode it just blanks the screen that goes back to tianocore00:30
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDin legacy mode it just says "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in seleted boot device and press a key00:31
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi used ddrelease64 to image a generic usb stick i use for imaging other servers00:31
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's a usb3.0 stick00:31
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi'm a bit stumped now at how to make this thing boot00:31
gnarfacepattern has multiple fits00:32
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDuefi shell doesn't even recogize a valid filesystem00:32
gnarfacetry a 2gb sd card or try booting grub from cdrom then typing in the boot params manually for the microsd00:33
gnarfaceor try waiting longer00:33
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwaiting longer?00:33
gnarfacehow long did you wait?00:33
gnarfacei got this old dell you see00:33
gnarfacei got a few actually00:33
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi wanted until it said press 11 for boot menu and then smashed the button00:33
gnarfacebut two problems it has is that it needs to have a 2GB or less sized microsd to actually boot from, and if you use grub instead of lilo it takes like a solid several minutes just to load the kernel00:34
gnarfacethis one particular dell has this problem but it has recently come to light that it may affect a wide range of dells00:34
gnarfacecan't say anything about supermicro but these are the things i can suggest you try00:34
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi've got a half-broken grub i can boot to on an ssd here from an old alpinelinux install00:34
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDbut it just boots into rescue mode00:35
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDhmm. let me see if it can see the usb00:35
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDsometimes it doesn't00:35
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDeven see the other drives on the system00:35
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's not very reliable00:35
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDsupermicro is terrible. the bios update tool is broken00:35
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI could try trying to load it from the BNC, that's something i haven't tried yet00:36
gnarfacei can't help you with the details but i do remember being able to piece together from various examples a grub boot entry i could enter manually at the grub edit prompt that would work for booting the sd card from the cdrom00:36
gnarfacewell, actually it was a different machine and dvd to usb key iirc, but the same principle should work00:36
gnarface"chainload" might be the thing you're looking for00:37
gnarfacei think that it's possible that a lot of machines at the crossover from optical to flash didn't have as good of boot support on the flash ports00:38
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDon the flash ports?00:38
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyou mean some usb ports work better than others for booting?00:39
gnarfaceno i mean some machines work better for booting from optical drive than from usb or sd00:39
gnarfacebut it's just the initial boot, so if you can get to grub from the optical drive you should be able to make it load the sd after that00:40
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDif i still had any optical drives and blank disks00:40
gnarfacewell you said you could get to a grub instance on the harddrive?00:40
gnarfacemaybe that would work00:40
gnarfaceif it's not too old to be compatible with the newer one00:41
gnarfaceit's worth a try00:41
gnarfaceyou should in theory be able to give it a boot menu entry for a usb key's grub instance or the install on it00:41
gnarfacei did it before, so i know it might work00:42
gnarfacejust never tried it on a supermicro though00:42
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdo yourself a favor and don't buy supermicro in the future00:43
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDunless you like troubleshooting bios bugs for 2 days00:43
gnarfacebasically, when you get to the grub prompt, press a key to stop auto boot, then you should be able to hit another key to edit the boot entries, i think it's "e"00:43
gnarfaceyou can just edit a boot entry on the fly and point it at the usb key00:44
gnarfacemight get around bios issues00:44
gnarfacesince the bios is already completely loaded at that point00:44
gnarfaceor whatever grub has to do to talk to it is done00:44
gnarfacei don't actually understand the details00:44
gnarfacejust the limitations00:44
gnarfacenp, good luck00:45
gnarfaceand if you have the same problem with the resulting install, try switching to lilo00:46
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDis lilo better?00:48
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDis syslinux supported?00:52
onefangsyslinux is supported.  For EFI booting rEFInd works best.00:54
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDoh thankyou00:55
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDif i can manage to get uefi up and running, can it load linux and a initrd directly?00:55
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDlike through an efi shell00:55
onefangrEFInd will scan your system at boot time looking for things it can boot, then give you a list.  If you prefer you can make your own menu in it's config file.00:57
Hydragyrumyou *can* boot linux with an initrd from efistub only00:57
Hydragyrumbut really you don't want to00:57
gnarfaceyea, lilo is simpler on a number of levels and also just plain lighter weight.  processing load isn't something you normally consider as a problem for a boot loader these days but every once in a while grub still reminds you it can be.00:58
se7enI have finished upgrading to Devuan 4, but now on boot I have a lot of apparmor issues it spits out at me01:09
se7enI don't know what file shows these errors on boot. It isn't dmesg01:09
se7enAlso, apt wishes to autoremove 432 packages01:10
gnarfaceyou sure you actually finished upgrading?01:11
gnarfacedouble check that the sources.list is correct, and then check if the 432 packages are from the previous release01:11
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi started setting up a new devuan 3 system in a zroot manually via the debootstrap method a few days ago01:12
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi was almost done, but then devuan 4 was released overnight01:12
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwhen you said really soon now i didn't realize you want overnight01:12
se7engnarface: I am pretty sure I finished upgrading01:13
se7enEverything indicates I am on Devuan 401:13
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDis there any benefit to a fresh install or should i just upgradinging it in place?01:13
masonCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: You can boot Linux directly with the stub loader. I keep the kernel and an initramfs in the ESP and do something like:
se7enWhat is the file where I can see boottime errors01:13
gnarfacelook in /var/log/, it's gotta be one of them01:13
se7enThese are the packages apt wishes to delete01:14
masonCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: Newer systems I tend to just use GRUB, but you don't need to. elilo is also a good option for EFI.01:14
gnarfacese7en: please?01:14
gnarfacese7en: actually, you can check the versions on pkginfo.devuan.org01:14
se7enWhy. Don't trust
* blockhead blinks - someone mentioned lilo?01:15
Tenkawablockhead: yeah and made me feel very very old01:15
blockheadi use lilo01:16
masonah, here we go: efibootmgr -c -d /dev/sda -L devuan -l '\EFI\devuan\vmlinuz' -u 'boot=zfs root=tank/ROOT/default initrd=\EFI\devuan\initrd.img'01:16
Tenkawagnarface: is it just me or do those i386 package references look like a bad sources.list change?01:16
masonor two of those if you have two disks01:16
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi haven't used lilo since i used slackware01:16
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi wonder if it's still capable if you have a lot of oses installed01:17
Tenkawawent from the wrong arch01:17
gnarfaceCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: usually upgrades are fairly seamless.  you shouldn't have to do a fresh install unless you made a mess of the old one.01:17
blockheadi have 4 os's atm: lilo runs fine (and i'm off topic.  stopiing now.  sorry)01:17
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi do wonder about bloat though gnarface, if it would try to install depenencies sloppiliy01:17
Tenkawase7en: can you also paste your /etc/apt/sources.list?01:18
se7engnarface: so which log in /var/log is the boot-time log?01:18
se7enTenkawa: ok01:18
gnarfacese7en: several of the top-level files are gonna get boot-time logs.  they were meant to be read by human eyes....01:20
Tenkawayou are mixing repos that I think might be clashing01:21
se7enYeah, but I mean the log that init spits out at you at boottime01:21
gnarfacese7en: certainly there must be a mistake and this is from your ubuntu machine01:21
Tenkawathats a lot of repos in there01:21
se7enBecause that was where I saw the errors01:22
se7engnarface: some packages I use are/were out-of-date or not in apt01:22
se7enSo I installed the PPA equiv for Ubuntu01:22
Tenkawano you cant do that01:22
gnarfaceyea but you can't just do that and not expect a trainwreck01:22
gnarfacedependencies in conflict get recursively removed01:22
Tenkawadevuan is non-systemd based01:22
Tenkawaeven without the deps.. its going to break01:23
Tenkawajust there01:23
se7enWell, signal only is avalible through that repo01:23
se7enMumble is in apt but it's an outdated version01:23
gnarfacedid you look in backports?01:23
se7enAnd one of those is only torbrowser-launcher, which has failed to work for a long time01:23
gnarfaceand wait, that's not an old version of mumble...01:24
gnarfacethat's current stable01:24
se7enIt is?01:24
gnarfacethat's what i'm seeing in pkginfo.devuan.org01:25
se7enWell then, that's good01:25
se7enremoved the mumble repo, didn't need it01:25
gnarfacehere's what i would do01:25
gnarfacei would clean up all the 3rd party repos01:25
gnarfacethen i would put ubuntu in a vm01:25
se7enI don't want to run ubuntu.01:25
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdoes dist-upgrade work ok with backports?01:26
se7enThe only real ubuntu ppas I need are the signal-desktop01:26
gnarfacewell, that's based on your prior assertion that you needed signal from ubuntu01:26
gnarfacei don't know enough about signal to know why it's not in devuan to begin with01:26
se7enThat's the instructions from the signal website01:26
gnarfacereally? to install it in devuan?01:26
gnarfacewith ubuntu dependencies?01:27
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDmixing ubuntu and debian repos can make a frankendebian01:27
gnarfacedoesn't seem very rational.01:27
se7en"Linux (Debian-Based) Install Instructions"01:27
se7en# NOTE: These instructions only work for 64 bit Debian-based01:27
gnarfacethey're insane if that's what it really says01:27
se7en# Linux distributions such as Ubuntu, Mint etc.01:27
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDmaybe you could use an xmpp client instead01:28
se7enI do01:28
se7enNow, continuing on, these packages that it lists. I do not see the problem being a dependency hell. Rather, I see that these package are probably obsolite. I simply need confirmation before I run a mass autoremove01:29
gnarfacedid you check the versions?01:30
gnarfacei think it's not01:30
gnarfacei think it's chimaera packages it's removing01:30
gnarface(because they're in conflict with the ubuntu ones, presumably)01:30
se7enWell, I removed the ubuntu repo01:30
gnarfacewell i see suse in here,, some ones i don't recognize...01:31
gnarfaceit's not just ubuntu repos that are the problem01:31
gnarfaceit's this entire methodology01:31
se7enThe videolan makes sense, as I prematrurely altered the .list file to be Debian 11, which does not yet exist in the repo01:31
gnarfacei'm sorry, i want it to be this easy too but the package dependencies aren't self-aware01:31
gnarfacethey're basic string and numeral comparisons01:32
gnarfacebased on human-typed patterns and data01:32
se7enAlso, Err:23 bullseye Release01:32
se7enThat does not yet exist01:32
se7enSo there's a good chance the majority of these packages are wanting to be removed due to invalid repo (at this time)01:32
gnarfacewell i don't know that it's not a conflict with signal itself01:33
gnarfaceor one of signal's dependencies (more likely)01:33
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwelcome to ppa hell01:33
se7enWhat is the command to check dependencies?01:33
gnarfacei do seem to recall that the issue with signal has come up before01:33
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDremember when installing the skype deb would hose the root fs on debian?01:33
gnarfacese7en: try "apt-cache depends [package]"01:35
gnarfacese7en: or you can do "apt-cache rdepends [package]" to see what it depends on01:35
se7en  Depends: libnotify401:35
gnarfaceor aptitude why [package]01:35
se7en  Depends: libxtst601:35
se7en  Depends: libnss301:35
se7en  Depends: libasound201:35
se7en    liboss4-salsa-asound201:35
se7en  Depends: libxss101:35
gnarfaceyou probably shouldn't paste more than 3 lines at once in here01:36
gnarfacethat'll probably get you flagged for flooding01:36
gnarfacebut i also don't need to see this01:36
gnarfacethis output is for your benefit01:36
gnarfaceif you can find all the dependencies in devuan, install them first, then download-only the signal-desktop package and try to install it with dpkg -i01:37
gnarfacethat's the best i can do for you01:37
se7enAlright, but moving on01:37
gnarfaceif it doesn't work you're looking at rebuilding the package01:37
se7enI still can't find the boot-time log01:37
gnarfacewhat actual messages are you looking for?01:38
se7enSo I can't read the apparmor issues01:38
se7enIt spit out apparmor issues at boottime01:38
se7enI believe they were all warn-level01:38
gnarfaceshould be in the output of dmesg01:38
gnarfaceor /var/log/dmesg*01:38
gnarfaceafaik anyway01:39
gnarfacebut check the other usual suspects like syslog, kern.log, daemon.log, etc...01:39
se7enWhen I do cat /var/log/dmesg* | grep appar01:39
gnarfacemabye even messages01:39
se7enAll I see is STATUS messages01:39
se7enOh, here's the errors01:40
se7enOne such error01:40
se7en[   27.074387] audit: type=1400 audit(1634338655.696:36): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" info="profile can not be replaced" error=-17 profile="unconfined" name="system_i2p" pid=2197 comm="apparmor_parser"01:40
se7en[   27.089380] audit: type=1400 audit(1634338655.708:39): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" info="profile can not be replaced" error=-17 profile="unconfined" name="system_tor" pid=2213 comm="apparmor_parser"01:40
se7enAbout 5 of those, which match what I saw at boottime01:40
gnarfacei just have to assume your apparmor directory has a munge of conflicting patched up files from several different distros now and it's dying of cancer01:40
se7enI replaced the apparmor conf files during the full-upgrade01:41
se7enIt promoted01:41
gnarfacehmm, nonetheless, i haven't seen this problem anywhere i've followed the rules01:41
gnarfaceare these blocking package installs or what?01:41
se7enRecall if you will, gnarface, that originally this laptop was fucked to begin with when I, having very few resources for install, foolhartedly installed Devuan then copied /bin, /usr, and /home over from the previous laptop's HDD01:42
se7enI can't rememer if I did that before or after upgrading from Jessie01:42
gnarfacei did not recall that01:42
gnarfacebut i would have advised only copying /home01:43
se7enYou assisted me with permission errors quite a while ago, which arose from that01:43
se7enNot instantly, of course01:43
se7enIt was 2019801:43
gnarfacei must have been drunk01:43
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDse7en, bin and usr sure, but copying over home wouldn't cause an issue would it?01:43
se7enNo, I don't think so, but it is something I also copied over01:43
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthere's a way to fix that01:43
gnarfaceso the thing is i still think the best way to back out of this is to remove all the non-devuan packages first01:43
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDinstall debsums01:43
se7enAlready installed, says apt01:44
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand then tell debsums to audit your system. it will tell you if there's any files with sums that don't match the package database you can reinstall01:44
se7enWhat's the command01:44
gnarfacehmm, not a bad idea01:44
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdebsumss -h01:44
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdebsums -h01:44
gnarfacei think there was a tool called cruft that might help as well..01:44
se7enis debsums -a too intense?01:44
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi used that to recover a raspberry pi from a corrupted sdcard01:44
se7endebsums -as01:45
se7enrunning, no errors reported thus far. I expect this to take a long time01:45
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit doesn't01:45
gnarfaceis debsums gonna flag a properly-installed package from another distro though?01:45
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyou want debsums -s01:45
se7enSpitting out errors01:45
gnarfaceit won't, will it?01:45
gnarfacei guess i don't know01:45
se7enRedirecting output to debsums.log01:46
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDrun it in silent mode otherwise it will spam your console wit OKs01:46
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit uses a fast hash, as long as your on a relatively recent machine01:46
se7enit's mostly man pages in other languages01:46
se7enWhich bleachbit is programmed to remove01:46
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's just md5sum if i recall01:46
se7endebsums: missing file /usr/share/man/es/man5/adduser.conf.5.gz (from adduser package)01:46
se7enIf that's all it finds, there's no issue01:47
se7enIt's still running01:47
CAPTCHA_REQUIRED*chuggin along*01:47
se7enI also notice this upgrade finally fixed the strange and seemingly unfixable permission errors that were occuring in /dev/snd/*01:48
se7enI now have sound on boot without having to do `chown -R root:audio /dev/snd` every time01:49
se7enThat broke my system a while back too, trying to fix it01:49
se7enIt resulted from misunderstanding the output recommendations of the Lynis secuirty auditing program01:49
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi noticed in that list you sent a while back it was pulling in oss libraries01:49
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDoss isn't really used on linux anymore since the 90s01:50
se7enYes, becaue I had attempted to fix the problem by installing non-alsa libraries and programs01:50
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDif you need oss support use aoss.01:50
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDi needed it for some old ham radio tools01:50
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit intercepts syscalls and translates them to alsa01:50
se7enHam Radio software is its own niche alright01:50
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDnot really sure what you mean01:51
se7enLike Android Pajeetism, so many good ham radio software programs haven't been updated since 200301:51
se7enIt's just niche and hack01:51
se7enLike XDA-Forums01:51
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDidk, but i know what your talking about01:51
se7enIdk if you undestand01:51
se7enthis is still running01:51
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's like a whole bunch of talented developers fell off the face of the earth in 201301:51
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDsometime late 2000s01:52
se7enWell, that is the time that the New Aeon began01:52
se7enTerry Davis and the Mayans warned us about it01:52
se7enLets All Love Lain01:52
se7enI'll have this log output as soon as it's done01:53
se7enHow much longer do you believe it will take?01:54
gnarfacei couldn't guess01:54
se7enThere are other things in its output besides the man and LC_MESSAGES in other languages, but it's mostly just conf files one would expect to be different due to regular use01:55
se7enSuch as /etc/proxychains.conf01:55
se7enA large number of missing files exist however01:56
se7endnscrypt-proxy hasn't worked right in years due to them changing the flags01:56
se7enNever bothered to fix it01:56
se7enit has finished, gnarface01:57
gnarfacei doubt it will tell me anything it doesn't tell you01:57
se7enOh, that's interesting01:57
se7enThe file-picker for surf says /home/se7en is permission denied01:57
gnarfaceuids might not match if it was copied from another system01:58
se7enThat's old, gnarface01:58
se7enI said I did that in 201801:58
se7endrwxr-xr-x 78 se7en se7en 148K Oct 15 16:55 se7en01:59
se7enI'm not sure what filepicker it is using02:00
gnarfacei'm not sure why you're missing all these files but i see two apparmor ones in there02:00
se7enThe error is with the filepicker, it also can't access /02:01
gnarfacei mean there is clear evidence there's a lot more wrong than that if you're missing all these files02:01
se7enAs I said, the majority are man pages and messages in other languages02:01
gnarfaceyea but you shouldn't be missing this many02:01
se7enWhich bleachbit routinely removes02:01
se7enThey are installed because I have downloaded all locales for compatibility02:01
gnarfacei guess i don't know what bleachbit does but it doesn't sound like what it is doing is dependency-aware...02:01
se7enbleachbit is the FLOSS version of cccleaner02:02
se7enWhich Hillary Clinton famously used to delete her emails02:02
gnarfacei still am not convinced even that is the problem though, i think there's a deeper mess in here to do with some 3rd party packages still installed02:02
se7enWhich the creator of Bleachbit then took as an opertunity to sell a novelty product called "A cloth or something" branded with bleachbit02:02
Tenkawase7en: if its not hierarchical aware of installed files its very dangerous to use02:02
se7enI use that as part of my cleaning script02:03
se7enclean is aliased to `bleachbit -c -o --preset; wipe -rf /home/se7en/.weechat/logs; wipe -rf /home/se7en/.config/.w3m/*; wipe -rf /home/se7en/.config/tox/chatlogs/*; rm -rf /home/se7en/.surf/*'02:03
Tenkawaanything that's trying to bypass control of dpkg's installed catalog of files is "a bad thing"02:04
gnarfacewell, stuff in ~/ is probably not suspect02:05
se7enIt's just removing man pages and LC_MESSAGES files which are in languages other than the default locale02:05
Tenkawase7en: do you have everything in a single filesystem (/) ?02:08
se7enYes, on a multi-part drive02:08
Tenkawabut you don't have it multi fs'ed ie /usr /var / /etc and such right?02:09
se7enThis is my system02:10
Tenkawathat's interesting... does your /var/log/dpkg.log show anything about anything in that pkglist if you run02:12
Tenkawagrep xdg-user-dirs /var/log/dpkg.log02:13
se7enNo output02:13
Tenkawalike that for example02:13
Tenkawanow thats even more odd02:13
se7enI do not use gnome02:13
se7enI try to avoid free-desktop02:14
Tenkawaaccording to that audit you ran you do02:14
se7enUnfortunately, many programs are dependent on gnome libraries02:14
se7enSo I try to strip it down to the bare nessesity02:14
Tenkawadebsums: missing file /usr/share/locale/pa/LC_MESSAGES/ (from xdg-user-dirs package)02:14
Tenkawathat was missing it says02:14
Tenkawaso it should be in dpkg.log somewhere02:15
se7enLC_MESSAGES means the program in a different language02:15
se7enit does appear to be installed02:15
se7enxdg-user-dir          xdg-user-dirs-update02:15
se7en xdg-user-dirs-update02:15
se7enNo default user directories02:15
Tenkawagrep mean read string02:15
se7en`grep xdg-user-dirs /var/log/dpkg.log` produces no output02:15
Tenkawaer means02:15
se7en`cat /var/log/dpkg.log | grep xdg-user-dirs02:17
se7enAlso produces no output02:17
se7en`grep mean /var/log/dpkg.log` produces no output02:17
se7en`grep read /var/log/dpkg.log` produces output02:18
se7en`grep string /var/log/dpkg.log` produces output02:18
Tenkawayou aren't looking at the file (and its backup) right if you don't see it there and you saw it on that paste you showed us02:23
Tenkawa grep xdg-user-dirs dpkg.log* | wc -l02:23
Tenkawamine has 7 lines of entries of where it staged and installed it for example02:23
se7engrep xdg-user-dirs /var/log/dpkg.log* | wc -l02:24
gnarfacehas to be zgrep or the * part won't matter02:24
gnarfaceassuming your log files are compressed02:25
gnarfacewhich would be the default...02:25
se7enStill 002:25
Tenkawase7en: thats even more problematic if the audit listed those packages yet they aren't there02:25
Tenkawaand that one specificly was02:25
Tenkawadebsums: missing file /usr/share/locale/pa/LC_MESSAGES/ (from xdg-user-dirs package)02:25
Tenkawafrom xdg-user-dirs package02:26
se7enapt says xdg-user-dirs is installed02:26
se7enDo I really need it anyway?02:26
gnarfaceis it the apt from ubuntu or devuan though?02:26
se7enI'm on devuan, it's devaun02:27
Tenkawagnarface: indeed... thats the q02:27
se7enI'm running apt --reinstall xdg-user-dirs02:27
se7enNow xdg-user-dirs outputs in /var/log/dpkg.log*02:27
se7en9 lines02:28
se7enThere's no real issue there02:28
se7enSo as it is, we've identified only a few main problems here on this system02:30
gnarfacethere's definitely multiple issues but i don't know that one of them is not just missing logs02:30
se7enThe first being boot-time spits out apparmor issues02:30
gnarfacedid you try reinstalling that?02:30
se7enThe second being that GTKFilePicker has permission errors, which now seems to be isolated to an issue with surf (still unsure)02:31
se7enI will try to reinstall apparmor02:31
gnarfacei think other packages might alter that directory too, i am not sure02:31
se7enAppArmor parser error for /etc/apparmor.d in /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd at line 15: Could not open 'tunables/ntpd'02:31
se7enAppArmor parser error for /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd in /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd at line 15: Could not open 'tunables/ntpd'02:31
gnarfaceif one of the ones from outside the distro altered it, that could have caused problems02:31
se7enError: At least one profile failed to load02:31
se7enI do not believe that to be the case02:32
se7en apt install --reinstall apparmor-profiles apparmor-profiles-extra02:32
se7enIt lists these as "new" packages02:32
se7enInstalled without error02:33
se7enThis is output from surf when I attempt to download a file02:33
se7ensurf: execvp x-terminal-emulator failed: Permission denied02:33
se7enAnd on fileupload02:34
se7en(With gtkfilepicker)02:34
se7en Cannot spawn a message bus without a machine-id: Unable to load /var/lib/dbus/machine-id or /etc/machine-id: Failed to open file “/var/lib/dbus/machine-id”: Permission denied02:34
se7en-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33 Oct 15 16:08 /var/lib/dbus/machine-id02:35
* se7en sigh02:39
se7enIt's never seemless02:39
se7enThese seem to be minor issues though02:39
se7enThe system still boots, I can still use it02:40
se7ensurf just doesn't download/upload, apparmor spits out errors, and my new linux-libre kernel freezes (which isn't a devuan problem)02:40
se7enIf any more issues arise, I'll let you know, but do consider how to fix these ones please02:40
gnarfacei have to assume some more packages involved are from the wrong repos02:40
gnarfacedbus or surf maybe02:41
se7enOh, now I have problems with mutt02:41
se7en/var/tmp/mutt-lappy-1000-20598-3895580228296453503: Permission denied (errno = 102:41
se7enSo I have permission errors in /var now02:41
se7endrwxr-xr-t  2 root  root  4.0K Oct 15 16:35 tmp02:42
se7enIt's empty02:42
gnarfacethe apparmor errors for ntpd...02:42
gnarfacethose are probably from the ntpd package02:42
gnarfacereinstall that see if they go away02:43
gnarfacereinstall any packages that are missing from apparmor02:43
gnarfaceare missing files in /etc/apparmor.d/ i mean02:43
gnarfaceare missing files in /etc/apparmor.d/ i mean02:43
gnarfacesorry : dpkg -S /etc/apparmor.d/02:43
gnarfacerun this^02:43
gnarfacemake sure you're installing the devuan chimaera one by commenting out ALL other repos02:44
se7enOne moment please02:44
gnarface(don't forget to run apt-get update first)02:44
se7enThe output of your dpkg command is02:44
se7enapparmor-profiles-extra, apparmor-profiles, ioquake3, ioquake3-server, haveged, cups-browsed, cups-daemon, i2p, libreoffice-common, man-db, unbound, tor, surf, msmtp, clamav-freshclam, redshift, ntp, firejail, apparmor: /etc/apparmor.d02:44
gnarfacei don't need to see them02:44
gnarfacebut all those packages are supposed to ahve files in there02:45
gnarfaceso if they're missing, that's a problem02:45
gnarfaceif any of these package names show up in those apparmor errors, they should be obvious candidates for reinstallation02:45
gnarfacemaybe that's got something to do with other problems if it's not just ntpd02:46
se7enFixed the /tmp, /var/tmp issue02:46
se7enchmod 1777 /tmp02:46
se7enRestarting DNS server: unbound[1634345222] unbound[22431:0] warning: so-rcvbuf 4194304 was not granted. Got 425984. To fix: start with root permissions(linux) or sysctl bigger net.core.rmem_max(linux) or kern.ipc.maxsockbuf(bsd) values.02:47
se7en[1634345222] unbound[22431:0] warning: so-sndbuf 4194304 was not granted. Got 425984. To fix: start with root permissions(linux) or sysctl bigger net.core.wmem_max(linux) or kern.ipc.maxsockbuf(bsd) values.02:47
gnarfacei dunno unbound, but the values it's asking you to change can be set in /etc/sysctl.conf or /etc/sysctl.d/*02:48
gnarfaceseems like that might be bad behavior for a dns server, but i dunno really02:48
se7enThe only reason I have unbound installed was due to my previous (long-time broken) DNSCrypt install02:49
se7enI think it's perhaps best to remove unbound02:49
se7enI have removed it02:50
* onefang skips reading the almost 400 messages since I left to go shopping two hours ago.02:50
onefangAnything important I should read?02:50
se7enNot unless you want to diagnose my Frankendevuan Install, onefang02:51
onefangTypically stuff about the package mirrors I should read, since that's what I look after.02:51
onefangAh yes, Frankendevuans need all the help they can get.02:52
onefanggnarface is always very helpful, I'll leave you in those good hands.02:53
gnarfacei can't do anything for him, i told him to uninstall all the 3rd party packages and he won't02:53
hyrcanususer modifications are not covered under manufacturer warranty02:53
gnarfacehe's trying to run signal-desktop???02:53
gnarfacefrom ubuntu!?02:53
* onefang goes back to trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with my network. Everything is working, except for emails between my desktop and my server.02:53
se7enI already commented-out the third-party ubuntu repos hours ago, and ran apt update02:54
djphonefang: any logs serverside?  just had to fight with a new MTA a few days ago :)02:54
onefang"Network is unreachable" says my destkop email server.  Everything else on my desktop can reach that server.02:54
gnarfacese7en: i'm not sure that's enough, i think you might have to actually audit the output of "dpkg -l" for unwanted packages02:55
onefangII'v had tail -f running on both ends since02:55
onefangII'v had tail -f running on both ends since I went shopping.02:55
gnarfacese7en: and i said, the other repos are suspect too02:55
Tenkawaonefang: can a direct port hit with telnet/nmap even get there?02:56
onefangThat's next on my list of things to try.  I had to go out before, so had to just leave it while I was out.02:57
gnarfacese7en: the problem is, due to conflicting versioning conventions, certain version strings (especially the ones with letters in them like "ubuntu") can actually be detected as newer when they're actually older02:57
Tenkawaah. yeah I've  had to test it by hand more times than I want to count02:57
se7enThat may be true, but that would only account for a few packages02:58
gnarfacese7en: yea, but if you have the wrong version of something, and it's only almost behaving correctly, and it's an internal core system component like this, it can have a chain reaction02:58
se7enFound the problem with surf02:59
se7enExcept the solution file provided is blank03:00
se7enbut does exist03:00
se7enPerhaps I should just uninstall apparmor03:01
UsLse7en: what's in the box?!03:02
se7engnarface: I don't think I really used apparmor before. In fact, I'm almost certain I uninstalled it03:02
se7enWhat are the pros and cons of uninstalling apparmor03:02
gnarfaceapt-cache rdepends apparmor03:04
se7enA long list prints out03:04
gnarfaceso the cons are all those things go with it03:04
se7enIncluding linux-images03:04
se7enWhy does the linux kernel, libre-office, surf, i2p, clamav, and ioquake3 all require apparmor to function?03:07
se7enThere are packages I don't recognize here too, such as mosquitto, octavia-agent, pollen03:07
se7enWhich aren't installed03:07
se7enThis seems to be an apparmor issue now, not a devuan issue03:08
se7enAnd the conf files for apparmor in /etc are all blank03:08
gnarfacewell i've been saying from the beginning that it seems like that part of the install definitely got corrupted03:10
gnarfacebecause you certainly aren't supposed to be getting this much noise from it03:10
gnarfacebut i know it's high-traffic enough that just mixing a few packages from the wrong release in will cause havoc03:11
gnarfacethat might not be all that happened here, maybe some package install got choked half-way through and left some post-installation jobs undone something?03:12
gnarfaceor something*03:12
se7enThis all seems to go back to apparmor03:12
se7enI've already removed the third-party repos03:13
gnarfaceyou gotta figure out what, but while you're at it make sure you don't have non-devuan packages doing critical parts of the task03:13
se7enI've said that repeatedly03:13
gnarfaceand i've said repeatedly that just removing the repos from your sources.list won't magically make any packages that snunk in from them disappear03:13
gnarfacesnuck not snunk03:13
se7enThen what do you recommend I do03:13
gnarfacecheck the output of dpkg -l03:14
gnarfacelook at the version of every package on there03:14
gnarfacecompare it to pkginfo.devuan.org03:14
* onefang teaches my desktop email server to use my ssh tunnel to send email instead.03:14
gnarfacemake sure it's the right version and not something weird03:14
se7enThat would take hours of manual work03:15
Tenkawaonefang: effective03:15
Tenkawavery nice03:15
se7enIsn't there a file I could just diff03:15
se7enI have 3499 installed packages03:17
gnarfacewrite a script03:17
gnarfacesomeone has probably written this script already03:18
se7enWhat does ii mean03:19
se7envs rc03:19
josh864would migrating from debian bullseye to devuan following the website instructions mess with UEFI secure boot?03:19
se7enIn the dpkg -l output03:19
gnarfacei think ii means it's properly installed and rc means it has been removed but vestigial config files remain03:19
masonjosh864: I haven't actually tried SecureBoot with Chimaera. It's worth trying it on a standalone system probably before migrating something where you really want SecureBoot.03:20
gnarfacewhen you remove a package, if you remove it with "apt-get --purge remove [package]" it should also remove the configs, then it will also disappear from the output of "dpkg -l" completely03:21
josh864mmmmmmm i see03:22
masonjosh864: I will give it a try soon, but soon might end up not being before Sunday.03:22
josh864thank you03:23
josh864i've really wanted to install devuan but i can't boot the installer due to secure boot, which i can't disable as i forgot my BIOS password03:23
josh864so this might be actually the only way i can go03:23
gnarfacese7en: somewhat ironically, you may have to reinstall those first to make them really disappear03:25
Tenkawagnarface: you can actually even after the pkg is removed go in again and do a apt-get --purge remove pkg to get rid of the config files03:26
Tenkawaits quite odd03:26
gnarfacereally? i thought that specifically didn't work...03:26
Tenkawaas long as its in the rc state03:26
gnarfacemaybe just with some packages that are misbehaved03:26
masonjosh864: It'd be worth figuring out how to reset that.03:26
josh864i've read taking out the battery & waiting a fair bit might work03:27
masonjosh864: Finding a motherboard manual would be a start, then see if a factory reset will work.03:28
masonUsually you can pull the battery and short a pair of pins without having to wait. The pins ought to be documented in your mobo manual.03:28
josh864lemme see if i can find one for my hardware03:29
Tenkawarc  zram-tools                                        all          utilities for working with zram03:31
TenkawaThe following packages will be REMOVED:03:31
Tenkawa  zram-tools*03:31
Tenkawayeah if you just --purge it03:31
Tenkawavery handy... I had to use it with autoremove on occasion03:32
Tenkawato get rid of old mess03:32
hyrcanusdoes 'FrontOnLake' rootkit threaten Devuan installations?
onefangLooks like my email issue was something odd in either my homes ISP or the home router.  It's shared WiFi with six other rooms, I don't have admin access to the router.06:53
onefangPort 25 was blocked somewhere between them, but only to ONE of my email servers.  shrugs06:54
onefangNow I just tunnel it.06:54
djphonefang: weird13:24
debdogI don't want my laptop to do anything when its lid is closed or opened. so I disabled the execution of the /etc/acpi/ script in /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn.14:01
debdogthis worked well until I've upgraded to chimaera. my alternation is still intact but the laptop kind of freezes when I close the lid.14:01
debdogafter opening the lid again the screen is blank and even ssh-ing into it doesn't work.14:01
debdognow I have no clue what to look for since I thought /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn is fairly low level.14:02
debdogany hint appreciated!14:03
debdoghmm, syslog says "acpid: skipping incomplete file /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn"14:06
hyrcanusserious problem there14:11
hyrcanusi want no-lid suspend14:13
debdoghow does it determine that the script is incomplete? I hate it when an apparatus thinks its smarter than me14:15
djphdebdog: maybe a missing close tag or something?14:15
debdogit is a very simple script14:16
debdogevent=button[ /]lid14:16
debdogthe #-thingy is my alternation, of course14:16
debdogI'll just point action to a script that does nothing...14:17
debdogoh, it is not a script, it is a config file14:17
debdogsorry for that14:18
debdogok, empty script worked. thanks for listening!14:26
debdogwell, not empty.... exit 014:26
Guest5543hi, does anyone know why surf-like browsers doesn't work or are extremely slow?15:08
Guest5543i can'tfix any setup15:08
Guest5543i can't use chrome, surf and midori on debuan and devuan15:09
cheeringsnorkGuest5543, Is there any error message or are they just slow?  Have you tried other browsers?  And it might help to know which Devuan release/derivative and desktop environment you are using.15:38
Guest5543chromium, vivaldi, opera, midori, surf - high CPU usage, slow like Penium 60Mhz15:40
Guest5543firefox, netsurf, links, etc - works fine15:40
hyrcanusspeed varies by website15:46
Guest5543empty run fails too15:47
hyrcanusfast browser is dillo15:47
Guest5543WebKitWebProces acts wrong15:47
Guest5543very high cpu usage15:47
hyrcanuswebkit is from apple right15:47
Guest5543resizing window, scrolling, etc15:48
hyrcanusunder xfce Guest5543 ?15:48
Guest5543no, i315:48
cheeringsnorkMy guess would be that there is no way all of those browsers use the same plugins/extensions/addons/whatever, so it would seem rather global.  Possibly video related?  And did they ever work?  Is this a fresh install or a recent upgrade?15:50
cheeringsnorkOf course it makes sense to try the browsers with no extensions anyways since that should be quick and easy to try.15:51
Guest5543fresh install15:51
Guest5543it may be hardware/software acceleration issue15:52
cheeringsnorkIs that Chimaera?15:52
Guest5543devuan and debian15:53
Guest5543previous versions too15:53
Guest5543now i use only devuan but remember that issue from debian year ago15:53
cheeringsnorkHmm, meaning that buster, bullseeye, beowulf, and chimaera all have this problem?15:53
Guest5543on all machines15:53
Guest5543cant say it15:54
Guest5543don't remember debian name15:54
Guest5543devuan previously stable and current stable have15:55
TenkawaGuest5543: to have people help you , you need to be able to provide useable data and information (ie versions, os names, )15:56
Tenkawawithout this guessing is not going to help15:56
Guest5543chimera and one version back15:56
Guest5543i can't remember codenames15:57
Guest5543i installed chimera when chimera was notstable release15:57
TenkawaGuest5543: my point is.. when this happens in the future... write/record it somehow15:57
Guest5543and i installed stablerelease on other machine15:57
Guest5543it is happening now :)15:58
cheeringsnorkI don't use those browsers but I do have a laptop here I am using to fiddle with Chimaera so I installed Midori from the repos and it seems to work fine, including video.15:58
cheeringsnorkThough I imagine if there was a problem affecting all those browsers in Chimaera/Devuan we probably would have heard about it by now.15:58
Guest5543pplwrite about it in the network15:59
cheeringsnorkHave you tried disabling acceleration?15:59
Tenkawayes but you can't give us a reference point that "was" working.. documentation would've helped possibly isolate a point in the upgrade/install what might have made it go wrong15:59
Guest5543i am trying to find out how15:59
Tenkawacheeringsnork: I have a feeling he has it disabled right now15:59
Tenkawaand thats part of the problem16:00
Tenkawax is running without any mesa/opengl at all16:00
Guest5543possible, i use 10+ yo machines here16:00
cheeringsnorkI am trying to remember Chrome... can you just go to settings and ios there a search box you can type "accel" in to?16:00
Tenkawacheeringsnork: and yeah chrome is very touchy as we know16:00
Guest5543well,actually i can't - don't have chrome right now but i will check16:01
Guest5543i disabled acceleration on chromium16:12
Guest5543it freezes the same as before16:13
Guest5543surf - is slow but loads websites, chromium hungs16:13
Guest5543oh wait it is working16:15
Guest5543after restart acceleration settings works16:16
Guest5543cheeringsnork thanks ;)16:18
hyrcanusneeding a gpu to smoothly scroll a page of text.  kid programmers these days.16:25
cheeringsnorkSorry, I got distracted with breakfast.  Glad to see it is working! :-)16:25
Guest5543hyrcanus are do commenting my issue?16:33
Guest5543if so - i turned acceleration off16:33
Guest5543probably driver issue16:34
hyrcanusyes sounds like it16:34
hyrcanusglmark2 will give you an idea about whether accelerated gpu drivers are working16:34
user282069the installer started copying files over from usb; the screen has gone to swiss cheese mode; no numlock or capslock lights or tty1 etc. give it 10m and rs or rs or?19:40
user282069this is with an nvidia card; 750ti if i remember. no big deal i think19:42
user282069i was wondering what the post install scripts were gonna do;; would rather it go through first time than try again to see (^^;19:44
user282069second crash; this time with livefilesystem in ram. hrm... sha sum was OK19:57
user282069maybe this usb stick is wasted20:17
masonuser282069: I've had some USB stick have surprising, erratic errors. Worth trying another one to compare.20:19
user282069thats right; is there anything for a quick test like with fdisk?20:32
user282069nothing wrong in dmesg anyway20:32
masonuser282069: Might be worth a memtest86 run too for kicks.20:34
Harzileinisn't the copyright notice on the "f10" page of the install cd's grub config lacking an updated copyright year?20:45
masonHarzilein: Could be, but the year in the notice ends up being ~irrelevant.20:46
masonHaving a notice at all ends up being optional as copyright is implicit.20:46
gnarfaceuser282069: if you're seeing corrupted screen graphics/glyphs it could also be a sign of failing video ram20:47
gnarface(common with older nvidia hardware)20:47
Harzileinmason: its presence in incomplete form implies that it was untouched though, which i'm not sure is actually the case20:47
masonHarzilein: Which CD?20:49
Harzileinmason: and it would present a problem for anyone who wants to make a devuan blend and incorporate it, because that person would need to research the matter then at the latest in order to not not-acknowledge the copyright.20:50
Harzileinmason: devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso20:51
masonAh, fetching that one as I just have the RC for that image.20:51
Harzileinfwiw i'm somewhat stuck (due to exotic circumstances on my side) in those screens and still pondering how i should proceed, that's why i flipped through all those pages out of boredom.20:53
masonI tend to mostly do customized installs via debootstrap so I don't tend to spend a lot of time there.20:53
Harzileinthat's how i proceeded in the past as well, but this machine doesn't currently have linux on it (it's a 2010 mac mini)20:56
mason works well for it20:57
Harzileini might end up doing just that anyway, likely working from tiny core linux dcore.20:57
masonkk, download finished, looking20:57
Harzileinmason: i only have _one_ flash medium, not two and currently want to preserve the macos that's installed on it.20:58
masonHarzilein: kk, the dates are older but that's not super relevant. The copyright and distributions terms are identified, which is the critical bit.20:58
Harzileinmason: hence my likely choice of choosing a debinstall host that loads into ram.20:59
Harzileinmason: i'm not saying it's critical, i'm saying fixing it (and not taking it out entirely would be the conservative option) might help another person further down the line.21:00
masonHarzilein: I don't think it'd help or hinder. Might be worth filing a bug. Copyright by Dyne might mean we need a Dyne person to make a new source available.21:01
masonHarzilein:   and in particular the section "When Notice Is Optional"21:03
Harzileini'm not from ".gov" country ;)21:04
hyrcanusnuremberg convention21:05
Harzileini understood you the first time around, the notice might not be required for the sake of the author's protection, still, whenever someone changes the works, it'd be nice if he does not need to unnecessarily need to tinker with the copyright notice at all but just add his own.21:06
Harzileinand i see a need to tinker if he changes it sufficiently to add his own.21:07
gnarfaceHarzilein: you're trying not to blow up the stock macos install on a mac mini?  why not use the live image?21:07
Harzileinbecause otherwise he'd somewhat misrepresent it (if published this year) as "all changes in 2021 (c) by me"21:08
Harzileingnarface: because that's not sufficiently persistent.21:08
gnarfaceHarzilein: what's it gonna actually do?  is there an option to run it in a VM?21:09
Harzileingnarface: i explored the vm situation as much as "i don't want to deal with a apple account to d/l xcode", "the qemu in rudix-snowleopard crashes", "virtualbox 4.x series chokes on the current kernel"21:10
gnarfaceparallels works great but i think it's expensive21:11
Harzileinwe indeed used to have parallels at w0k contemporary to this mac. but not on this one, it was an old corporate thing too but apparently from a design person.21:12
gnarfacealthough you'd be surprised what you can run directly on osx if you just compile and install all the gtk dependencies21:17
gnarfacethe library paths are all whack but mostly stuff works if you fix them21:17
gnarfaceor at least they used to last i used it... i guess it has been a while21:18
* Tenkawa actually finds parallels very useful on his mbp22:22

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