libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2021-11-21

UsLwill dd make a 1:1 copy of a disc to a iso file or do I need smthng else?00:05
gnarfaceit's not an iso file unless you're copying from a cd but yes00:06
gnarfaceit will make a byte-for-byte raw copy of any driver-supported disk contents, regardless of media type00:07
UsLit is. Okay. I'm rescuing my old dvd collection from disc rot.00:08
gnarfaceuse i'd recommend dvdbackup for that but if you want to preserve the iso part that would work probably00:08
gnarfacenot 100% sure you might not run into some weird copy protection issues writing some disks back to optical, can't be sure because i've never tried it00:09
UsLI don't want to transcode anything or so. Just bit perfect copies.00:09
gnarfacedvdbackup doesn't transcode it just copies to the filesystem00:09
UsLsearching for it will give you all the answers in the world you don't want.. : )00:09
gnarfacecopies filesystem to filesystem00:09
gnarfacein a structure that preserves the menu functionality00:09
UsLwell, I gather the css copy stuff just gets copied? That's my aim at least00:10
gnarfaceoh, no i think dvdbackup would require decss00:10
gnarfacedd probably wouldn't00:10
UsLSo, dd will make an iso and then the iso can be opened for further things down the line.00:11
UsLI guess I could just test it. I just wondered if dd would suffice. For me dd is magic. I don't know how it works : )00:12
gnarfacedd if=/dev/dvd of=movie.iso00:14
gnarfacedon't point it at your face00:14
UsLI'll test dd. This laptop couldn't transcode anything without burning up. So, if that tíme comes I'll at least have the isos. I hope.00:14
UsLhaha, I wont00:14
gnarfacei just have misgivings about whether leaving the encryption on it is actually future-proofing it00:15
UsLI see what you mean. So, maybe decss it with dvdbackup and make a "clean" iso00:16
gnarfacerecently i've even started to have misgivings about the iso format optical disks use itself, because i'm not so sure anymore those drives will stick around for ever either00:16
gnarfacebut, the software isn't going away any time soon so do whatever you think is best00:18
UsLdrives dies, true. But I hope the iso format will last longer : )00:18
gnarfaceflash media doesn't seem to need special formatting so... that's where i'm thinking dvd/cdrom iso dies00:18
gnarfaceprobably not for another decade or so at least though00:19
gnarfacenow, from what i understand there's no "hidden data" about these movies on alternate tracks or anything, like cd audio formats had00:20
gnarfaceso if you call dvdbackup right you should be able to copy just the filesystem contents of the disk and leave nothing behind00:20
gnarface(except the encryption and the media-specific disk format)00:21
gnarfacehowever i have seen copy protection hacks on some disks fool dvdbackup when you don't explicitly call it with the option that backs up the entire thing00:21
gnarfacehopefully dd can't be fooled...00:22
gnarfacebut it might also copy a bunch of zeroes00:22
UsLI see.. Yeah, I was surprised at the filesize of dvdbackup (43 kB) seems like a lean and optimized program..00:23
UsLGood. I noticed libdvdcss2 got pulled from deb multimedia and not from devuan/debian repos.00:24
UsLnow I can make clean isos I think. Thanks gnarface.00:25
gnarfaceif you get the whole disk with dvdbackup, vlc and such will still treat that directory and it's contents it as a dvd00:26
gnarfacejust fyi00:26
gnarfaceproperly behaving programs will still load the menus automatically, etc00:27
UsLnice. I'll do "dvdbackup -M" then00:28
gnarfacei'm not sure that's the right one00:28
gnarfacedoesn't ring a bell00:28
gnarfacei'm thinking -F?00:28
UsLMirror -  backup the whole dvd00:28
UsL-F is feature.. So, what it thinks is the movie I take it00:29
UsLI'll test both trigger and see what I want00:29
gnarfacejust always double-check it00:29
gnarfacetake an inventory on chapters and such00:29
UsLbut this is the right way to do it at least.00:29
gnarfaceone form always does it right, the other form sometimes can get fooled, i forget which is which now00:30
SoltisWhy is this system hanging on shutdown at 'stopping enhanced syslogd: rsyslogd'?00:31
rrqSoltis: my web search on that question seems to suggeste that there is some kind of network file system involved00:55
Soltisrrq: Yes, and the info I see is years old and doesn't seem to correctly apply anymore, or at least the solutions suggested.00:56
rrqdoes "hangs" mean you don't have any console access?01:02
rrqor remote access?01:02
SoltisIt's obviously waiting for a remote filesystem to respond that probably can't because it wasn't unmounted before the wifi is stopped.01:05
SoltisThat's my guess, at any rate.01:05
SoltisI can still switch between consoles and such, locally01:05
rrqcan you work out which of the rc6.d/K* scripts was entered last? eg by adding an stderr output early up in them01:06
SoltisShoot me. Yes, just gotta add 32 echo statements. Ugh.01:13
rrq32 sounds a lot; mine has only 6 following K04rsyslog01:16
SoltisIt is a lot, more than I expected.01:18
rrqpuck K??networing and the one after that to begin with01:19
rrqnetworing=networking :)01:19
rrqand maybe K??umountroot01:20
SoltisOh, this is interesting.01:20
SoltisK08umountfs follows K04rsyslog01:21
SoltisOh, and also follows it01:21
SoltisI'm wondering if that's the issue - if I could just swap those two.01:22
rrqthe actual ordering is rather found in the file /etc/init.d/.depend.stop01:23
rrqwhich is a Makefile style representation of dependency ordering01:24
Soltis... so as far as I can tell, this explicitly details that rsyslog must be stopped before umountnfs.sh01:24
rrqyes, I think so; that stopping depends on having stopped rsyslog01:26
SoltisAnd as far as I can tell, this shows as a dependency of networking, so you'd think it would unmount everything first01:27
rrqyes all "nfs" .. includes a range of types01:29
rrqis that happening? does it enter K??networking ?01:30
SoltisLemme find out.01:31
SoltisOkay, so it's entering network-manager and then rsyslogd and then umountnfs from what I can tell01:34
Soltis... so maybe the issue isn't rsyslogd at all - it doesn't indicate that process completed, though.01:35
rrqnetworking before umountnfs ?01:35
Soltisnetwork-manager I should say01:35
Soltis"networking" is not being entered though01:36
SoltisOkay so yeah, I did catch a line this time ... CIFS complaining the remote server isn't responding.01:36
rrqmaybe add a dependency into the network-manager init script to be later ...similar as the networking init script01:38
rrqit has a "# Required-Stop: .." line?01:39
rrqplease paste that init script (so I could learn :)01:40
SoltisOkay so network-manager kills the wifi I believe01:40
SoltisBut unfortunately, I can't add network-manager as a dependency to without creating a circular dependency01:40
fsmithredmaybe mounting with autofs would help01:42
rrqI don't have experience fiddling with stop time dependencies01:42
SoltisI can only think of two options01:42
Soltis1 is to simply reduce the cifs timeout01:43
Soltis2 is to somehow make it so that wifi isn't killed when the window manager is killed01:43
fsmithreduse ifupdown instead of n-m01:44
fsmithredput it in /etc/network/interfaces01:44
fsmithredauto wlan001:44
SoltisYeah, that would work. Disgusting, but it would work.01:45
SoltisOption 4 - add call to inside stop action of network-manager01:48
fsmithredI like autofs for remote mounts01:49
fsmithredI don't need to worry about who reboots whenever.01:49
rrqcouldn't you just add "network-manager" to the Should-Stop line of ?01:51
Soltisrrq: I believe no, because of circular dep stuff.01:51
rrqdid you try? ... disable, change, enable ?01:53
SoltisWhat do you mean?01:53
rrqfirst using update-rc.d to disable, then change it, then enable it again01:54
SoltisGuess I could try that.01:54
rrqthe insserv subsystem will complain if that makes an issu and othewise rearrange things to suit01:54
SoltisWait, when you say 'change' - you mean add that dependency? Or something else?01:56
rrqyes, add that depenency01:56
rrq(spell correctly, though :)01:56
rrqmore generally I think network-manager should be declared as provider of the $network facility ... but that'd be a "larger" change01:57
SoltisYeah. Well, this is a years-old bug that nobody seems to want to fix01:58
rrqbeing $network provider is a more grandiose declaration, and shuld probably be done by someone who knows rather than me :)01:59
rrqI'm also unsure whether insserv can deal with provision plurality; it probably would rather force a choice among providers02:06
AfdalAny idea why my Xfce doesn't seem to like putting notifications at the top corners of my screen?02:08
AfdalI can't remember if this was an issue on a previous release02:08
SoltisWell, my hack solution worked.02:08
SoltisSo good enough for me.02:08
SoltisSick of dealing with over-architected bullshit that doesn't work correctly.02:08
SoltisThanks for the help02:08
rrqgood. cheers.02:09
AfdalMy notifications (like volume changing) somehow end up in the middle of sides of my screen when I choose the top corners02:09
Afdallike it thinks the top of my screen ends at the middle02:09
Hunter[m]I got a new monitor and it won't display the GRUB menu at all, neither the BIOS, it just says "no display". Only turns on when sysvinit finishes03:12
Hunter[m]So I'm unable to swap out kernels and what not. I'd like to quit using the Liquorix one03:13
rwpHunter[m], How strange!  I can only imagine that it is not sync'ing to the resolution that the BIOS is putting out.03:35
rwpCan you get the BIOS to pause?  So that it sits there long enough to display the BIOS?03:36
Hunter[m]rwp: This actually sounds about right, I noticed that the BIOS screen was pretty low quality compared to even the 60hz HP monitor I had before. This one is a 144hz Dell.03:38
Hunter[m]It's a Gigabyte B550M DS3H.03:38
Hunter[m]rwp: I couldn't ever hit F2/F10 to get it to stay in the BIOS. It doesn't seem to do anything. It gives three beeps indicating a GPU error, light turns off, comes back on, and I'm in Devuan.03:39
Hunter[m]I got it to stay in the BIOS screen, but no display.03:43
Hunter[m]* B550M DS3H motherboard.03:49
gnarfaceHunter[m]: it might help to try adding nomodeset to the kernel command-line04:17
gnarfaceif that fixes it, you can probably also specify one it likes manually04:18
gnarfaceotherwise you might have to check the bios for some legacy display setting04:18
gnarfaceyou're not using a port/cable adapter for the display connection are you?04:19
gnarfacethat could also limit available modes04:21
gnarfaceif you were seeing the BIOS screen then grub disappears, we'd know it is a driver issue but the BIOS screen itself not appearing could mean a lower-level firmware incompatibility04:22
gnarfacei have seen that once though not on a Dell04:22
Hunter[m]<gnarface> "Hunter: it might help to try..." <- Does that affect the BIOS screen as well04:27
Hunter[m]I dont know much about what goes on *before* the kernel is loaded04:27
gnarfaceno, it would only help for grub04:27
gnarfaceit goes bios, grub, then kernel04:27
gnarfaceresolution and font *might* change at every point04:27
gnarfaceit's not unheard of for there to be incompatibilities, especially with new or rare hardware04:28
gnarfacedepending on the video card you could run into similar behavior if you have the wrong drivers installed, but that wouldn't affect the bios screen04:29
Hunter[m]This is a fairly new monitor so it would make sense04:29
Hunter[m]Its branded as a gaming monitor, I didnt care about that I just wanted a better refresh rate 😂04:30
Hunter[m]gnarface: Its the same video card so I think its related to the monitor04:32
gnarfaceHunter[m]: the cable could be suspect too... HDMI cross-version compatibility sucks04:33
Hunter[m]You know what, I have an idea.04:34
Hunter[m]I have the old cable. Let me try that04:34
gnarfaceoh you know that reminded me, i have an idea too04:34
gnarfacesomething that worked on that old one for me when i had this issue with analog crt monitors04:34
gnarfaceyou could try going into the bios screen blind then plugging the display cable in after04:35
gnarfacemight work04:35
gnarfacethen if the behavior matches it should persist until reboot04:35
Hunter[m]Nope, old cable still gives the gpu error beeps04:37
Hunter[m]No display04:37
Hunter[m]Alright let me try that04:37
Hunter[m]Didnt work either04:38
gnarfacecheck the hdmi version of the cable and the ports at both end04:41
gnarfacei think below hdmi 2.0 it might not be able to go faster than 60Hz @1080p04:42
gnarfaceso if the monitor's minimum is something above 60Hz.... you can see how that could be a problem04:42
gnarfaceafter it's in linux you should be able to poke at it with xrandr to get some more info04:43
gnarfacei've also had colorspace mismatches and outright handshake failures based on finicky power-on orders going from hdmi 1.3b to 2.004:45
Hunter[m]Its 144hz and I can confirm xrandr is outputting 14404:45
gnarfaceso it's all fine once it gets the kernel booting?04:45
gnarfacerunning at the manufacturer-specified optimal resolution and refresh rate automatically?04:47
gnarfacesince it's a new dell i'd also check the website for a bios update with a changelog that mentions display support04:48
gnarfacewait, is it the same video card in a new motherboard?04:49
gnarfacei've seen some odd situations with some nvidia cards changing the default output port04:50
gnarfacethat could cause an issue like this too04:50
gnarfaceif it's got more than one output port you might want to see if the default just mysteriously moved04:50
gnarfacepresumably once the kernel is loaded it's smart enough to find the one that's actually connected regardless but, the default "primary" isn't always as fixed as it seems04:52
gnarfaceand the bios is rarely smart enough to auto-detect that04:52
Hunter[m]gnarface: I tried the second HDMI port, still the same problem04:54
Hunter[m]<gnarface> "running at the manufacturer-..." <- Yes, 1080p 144hz.04:54
Hunter[m]I've got TearFree enabled. I want to use VRR but its display port exclusive in the kernel for some reason.04:55
gnarfacei don't think the bios screen is gonna care, and i doubt it's gonna output above 60Hz at least until grub loads04:55
gnarfaceso that could be the issue but i couldn't be sure it's not just a weird cable version problem04:55
Hunter[m]I know that was just a little ramble04:56
gnarfacei think grub might not go above 60Hz either, not sure04:56
Hunter[m]You can set resolution but I dont know about the refresh rate04:56
Hunter[m]I have it set to 1080p04:57
gnarfacei know you can also set refresh rate but it's a constrained list of valid combos and i don't recall seeing any above 60Hz in the docs i've found is all04:57
gnarfaceyou'd have to test it04:58
gnarfacemaybe worth a try04:58
Hunter[m]<gnarface> "wait, is it the same video..." <- No, its all the same hardware as before only the monitor has been swapped04:58
gnarfaceok, just confirming04:58
Hunter[m]Its a Gigabyte motherboard, I would think it could handle 144hz but it is indeed locked to 60 from what I recall04:59
gnarfaceit's about text modes vs graphical modes05:00
gnarfacethere isn't as high a priority for improving text modes as there used to be when video modes sucked05:00
gnarfaceyou can find out what the video card handles by setting vga=ask, and then just try them until you find a good one that works but i think you need to be able to see grub's output first for that to work05:02
Hunter[m]I'll check Gigabytes website for any more bios updates05:02
gnarface(vga=ask on the kernel command-line that is)05:02
gnarfaceoh i thought you said it was a Dell05:02
gnarfaceit's just a Dell monitor?05:02
Hunter[m]Only the monitor is Dell, yes05:03
Hunter[m]Its a custom built PC05:03
Hunter[m]So I have a few different brands in it05:03
gnarfacedoes the video card also have displayport ports?05:05
gnarfaceor just HDMI?05:05
Hunter[m]It has both, and even DVI05:05
Hunter[m]I dont have a Displayport cable though sadly05:06
gnarfacei got a newer video card and it seems to favor the displayport outputs over the hdmi, it can't go as high resolution on the hdmi outputs and the default "primary" is one of them not a hdmi one05:06
gnarfacefood for thought if you have to get a new cable anyway05:07
Hunter[m]Mines an RX 580.. It worked fine using HDMI on the generic HP Monitor I had before05:09
Hunter[m]I just wanted better refresh rates05:09
Hunter[m]That was a 60hz one05:09
gnarfacethis one is a rx 5500 xt05:09
gnarfaceseems possible05:10
gnarfacei've got no other ideas, sorry05:11
Hunter[m]Its a weird problem, no worries05:11
Hunter[m]I guess if I need anything with the bios or grub I can use the other one05:12
Hunter[m]But I also need to try setting nomodeset in grub05:12
Hunter[m]The weird part is it seems like grub is skipped entirely, I have the timeout disabled so its supposed to not automatically boot unless I hit enter but it does anyway05:14
gnarfacei have this problem with a projector because it just didn't support the resolution05:14
gnarfacethe monitor supports 640x480 right?05:15
gnarfaceit's possible that it doesn't05:15
fluffywolfit may or may not be relevant, but grub keeps making changes in what the timeout options do, so make sure you did whatever was right for your version of grub.05:16
onefang(Just woke up, catching up on old stuff)  gnarface: Using the swapspace program solves even more problems than using a swap partition.07:30
Afdalswapspace program?07:38
onefang"Small, stable system add-on that continuously and automatically adapts07:47
onefangavailable virtual memory space to your actual memory needs.  Claims disk space07:47
onefangfor use as swap space when needed; frees it up for use by the filesystem when07:47
onefangnot needed."  It's in the Devuan package repos.07:47
onefangSo when you don't need swap, it's not using any disk space, and if you need more than currently exists, it gives you more.  Though in the later case, it's probably time to stop your memory hogs.07:48
Afdalis it this
Afdalmite b interesting07:49
onefangapt install swapspace07:49
onefangYes, that's the same swapspace.  I had to dig a bit to check.07:51
XenguyInteresting program07:52
onefang from the man page for it, which links to
XenguyOne wonders why it should be necessary in the first place, but nevertheless07:52
onefangSo your swap partition / swap file isn't permanently taking up space.07:53
onefangAnd so you don't even have to think about it.07:53
onefang"How big should I make my swap partition / file?"  Install sawpsapce and you don't need to answer that question.07:55
XenguyThe old formula used to be 'double your RAM', but not sure if that still applies07:56
onefangI have 256 GB of RAM, if I need three times that much, I got really big problems and should probably kill something.  lol07:58
XenguyExactly.  Times moves on07:59
onefangBut if I'm suddenly in need of 512 GB of disk space, I'd be really upset if I had 512 GB of swap partition I can't use.07:59
XenguyAnd that much RAM is unusual07:59
onefangThis is my 64 core Threadripper super desktop.08:01
XenguyHelluva ripper by the sounds of it08:01
onefangI had money to spend.  B-)08:01
XenguyBeauty : -)08:01
onefangAnd a ten year old desktop to replace.08:02
XenguyThat's what I call an upgrade08:02
AfdalBy the year 2030 web browsers will require 50GB of RAM08:02
Afdalwe'll get there eventually...08:02
onefangThat was my design goal, a desktop that'll last another decade of bloating.  Plus I can run lots of VMs.08:03
onefangBut, we wondered off topic now.  And I have other things to do.08:04
jk000hello devuans! :) I have a little problem with hibernation and mywlan interface. after hibernation I see no available networks :?11:31
gnarfaceprobably a known issue11:32
jk000nmcli shows the adapter: a (likely problematic) "Broadcom BCM4324"11:32
gnarfacetry the backports kernel, but hibernation isn't well supported by several drivers11:33
gnarfaceyou might not get much luck11:33
gnarfacethere is the possibility some module option could work around it but unlikely11:34
jk000hmm... I thought it might be possible to restart something in openr?11:34
gnarfacewell you could try to just ifdown and ifup the interface after the system wakes up11:34
gnarfaceor if you're using a gui network management tool restart the interface there11:34
gnarfacebut i assumed when you said it sees no networks that implied you'd tried that11:35
jk000newbie here... I've not done that yet11:36
gnarfaceoh, well with a regular wifi connection it would be expected behavior that you'd get disconnected on hibernate, just fyi11:37
gnarfaceand depending on your setup it might not reconnect automatically11:37
jk000yes. yes. so I am attempring a manual connection11:38
gnarfacea static ip config on a wired network would behave differently11:38
jk000or a restart of the interface11:38
jk000yes, true, too11:38
ShorTieor maybe disable power off to the wifi adapter11:39
jk000ShorTie: interestieng, how do I check if thadapter is receiven power? may be I can turn it off and back on?11:40
ShorTienot sure exactly how to do it, Sorry11:42
jk000hehe ok :)11:43
ShorTieMr.Google says  maybe11:45
jk000let's see11:52
jk000hello, i'd like to try out a backports-kernel. do I ned a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/backports.list file? or should the "deb chimera-backports main contrib non-free" be directly in /etc/apt/sources.list ?12:47
jk000do both update the backports-kernel? is "contrib non-free" unnecessary?12:49
_ds_jk000, source line in either location will work.13:05
_ds_As for contrib & non-free, depends on what you want/need…13:05
jk000alright! thanx for confirming! I wasn't sure there was a contrib and/or non-free in the backports tree too13:11
jk000now I know (:13:11
leitzNoob question; looking at, the packages have "amd64" at the end. Does that mean the package is only available for amd64, and not arm, for the RPi?13:59
gnarfaceit might just be only searching amd64 right now14:03
gnarfacedo you see arm packages come up with any searches?14:03
gnarfaceno i see kernels listed for every architecture, so yea that might mean it's only there for amd6414:04
leitzgnarface, I found the note to add ":arm64" to the search pattern, that worked.14:04
Hunter[m]<gnarface> "the monitor supports 640x480..." <- Maybe not17:47
Hunter[m]I updated the BIOS since its been updated a bunch since the last flash, still no help17:47
Hunter[m]I fixed it! You have to disable CSM.. which unfortunately means it is UEFI only, so I need to reinstall my OS18:20
rwpHunter[m], So it displays in UEFI boot mode but not with Legacy CSM?  Firmware bug!  At least that seems to me.  Happy to hear you have a way to see the display now.19:27
Hunter[m]Yes, maybe I should be a bit more cautious when I buy hardware. I have always had really good experience with Dell though, until now!19:31
Hunter[m]rwp: Thanks!19:31
Hunter[m]I forgot I actually made a separate /home partition, I might actually be able to save most of my system19:32
Hunter[m]If I had a choice, I would have went with a CRT. The only one I have has a bad cap sadly.19:35
Hunter[m]And Goodwill here and nobody else seems to have one.19:35
rwpHunter[m], A random thought occurred to me...  Does this hardware have multiple video outputs?  Is it possible that in Legacy BIOS mode it was displaying to a different video output?19:53
rwpI have seen systems that mirror the BIOS out to all video outputs.  And those that output only to a specific video output.  And firmware bugs of all types.  Possible some interaction there?19:54
Hunter[m]<rwp> "Hunter, A random thought..." <- The monitor does, weirdly enough20:09
Hunter[m]I tried the other HDMI port (theres only two, and one DisplayPort)20:09
Hunter[m]But had the same result20:09
Hunter[m]I can get one HDMI port and one DisplayPort for either one, but how does that work having two HDMI's plugged into it? Perhaps it splits the screen?20:15
used____HDMI is an excuse for a multi purpose digital bus. It can be used for a surprizing number of things, such as audio, multiple screens, HMI remote control etc20:39
used____Splitting the screen is a monitor thing, HDMI has fast data wire pairs and a protocol to select what is being sent. It's possible to have more than one video screen at once in the same HDMI cable.20:41
used____ example "external" box which does something similar.20:42
sixwheeledbeastethernet is sent down new ones.20:50
used____Anything goes, depending on end point equipment. I2C, USB, I2S audio, ethernet, video, etc.20:51
used____Anyway, it all depends on HDMI version at both ends (lowest liimts features), and chipset and drivers.20:56
used____It has never occurred to me so far, to send 2 video streams on one HDMI connector, but it is definitely possible, with different resolutions even.20:57

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