libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2022-01-01

sabas3dghdoes devuan provides gnome 3 iso?06:17
XenguyGood question06:17
XenguyI wonder where the ISO's are06:18
sabas3dghXenguy; Please let me know if you find that out06:19
XenguyThis is worth a look:
sabas3dghXenguy; what is the latest devaun code name06:37
XenguyCurrent stable is Chimaera06:37
sabas3dghI can't seem to find the gnome iso.06:41
adhocsabas3dgh: consider using mate instead gnome06:46
sabas3dghadhoc: why?06:46
Xenguysabas3dgh, Good idea, you get Gnome2, before Gnome3 kinda jumped the shark...06:49
golinuxGnome is available post-install06:49
XenguyThat's what I use myself, MATE06:49
Xenguygolinux, good to know!06:49
sabas3dghWhat is available when you install devuan? what desktop?06:52
XenguyI think the default is XFCE, but all the other standard desktops can be pulled in, if need be06:53
XenguyI use MATE as an alternative, for example06:53
golinuxDesktop Environments Default: Xfce06:54
golinuxAlternate: Cinnamon, KDE, LXQt, MATE06:54
golinuxOthers: available post-install06:54
golinuxsabas3dgh: There are posts on the forum about gnome.06:55
XenguyHere be dragons!06:55
XenguyYou should probably just boycott GNOME06:56
XenguyBut some people just can't resist06:56
golinuxNot the place for that discussion.  ;)06:56
XenguyNevertheless, very well06:57
monokromehey all07:59
monokromeI am trying out Devuan, just got it installed but it seems to not properly detect my GPU support in the AMD drivers - it seems to be loading vesa (I think?)08:01
monokrome is my log if anyone has ideas08:03
monokromen/m - I had to delete the xorg "radeon" driver because it was being selected before amdgpu08:24
critrnot sure what card you have, but i have to install firmware-amd-graphics for my old card to work right.08:27
u-amarsh04monokrome - I have a radeonsi card and build a kernel to use the amdgpu module for it08:33
u-amarsh04requires CONFIG_DRM_AMDGPU_SI=y and on the kernel command line have: amdgpu.si_support=1 radeon.si_support=008:35
u-amarsh04plus to avoid the radeon module being loaded I blacklist it08:35
u-amarsh04e.g. have a file called /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf with entry: blacklist radeon08:37
sabas3dghDevuan Chimaera is DownloadING08:37
monokromecritr: it looks like all I needed to do was uninstall the "radeon" driver because X was choosing it before "amdgpu"08:38
monokromemy card is RX 9600 XT08:38
sabas3dghshould I build my own kernel in devuan. is it required? 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)08:39
sabas3dgh Do I get HW accel with this card?08:39
u-amarsh04monokrome I also have a minimalist /etc/X11/xorg.conf08:43
raindodgerJust as a note: To get some hardware working, you may need to add the nonfree repos to your sources.list file. You can get more information about that here:
raindodgerScroll up a little to see the note about nonfree repos08:47
u-amarsh04monokrome, my /etc/X11/xorg.conf:08:47
u-amarsh04Section "Device"08:47
u-amarsh04        Identifier      "Radeon Cape Verde"08:47
u-amarsh04        Driver          "amdgpu"08:47
u-amarsh04maybe do the same with Driver "radeon" instead of amdgpu if you are running a radeon gpu08:48
monokromesabas3dgh: It's definitely not required. I personally wouldn't recommend unless you need to compile a module into it that isn't available otherwise08:50
sabas3dghI am installing devuan right now. Couple of questions if you may!11:20
sabas3dghFirst which sysinit should I choose11:20
sabas3dghWhich one is more robust? / which one has more support packages wise?11:21
adam_free2airmaybe first try the default sysvinit to begin with?11:22
sabas3dghI am familiar with Linux in general11:23
sabas3dghI used openRC for sometime11:23
u4tyah sysvinit is the most robust and has good package compatibility11:23
u4tit doesn't have the most features11:24
u4topenrc doesn't include its own init replacement11:24
u4trunit is a replacement for both init and rc*, and seems to boot and shutdown faster than openrc, at least for me11:25
u4trunit also has initscripts compatibility11:25
sabas3dghu4t what about package support on runit?11:26
u4tin theory it should be as good or better than sysvinit/initscripts11:26
u4t(or whatever the traditional rc* package is called)11:27
sabas3dghCould I change this after install?11:27
sabas3dghNo side effects no clean up?11:27
u4ti did a switch from openrc to runit a couple of weeks ago and it was painless11:27
u4tsabas3dgh: most likely, yes11:28
u4tif you've got a bunch of manually installed scripts it might be more difficult, but if they're written well it will Just Work(TM)11:28
sabas3dghOK. Another question! What the he'll is GNOME Flashback11:31
sabas3dghIn software selection11:31
sabas3dghXfce ... mate ... GNOME flashback11:32
u4tit's gnome 2.x-style stuff for gnome 3.x11:32
sabas3dghI see. So no way to install GNOME 3 from the get go.11:32
sabas3dghI was told that earlier11:33
u4twell mate is gnome 3.x-style stuff for gnome 3.x :P11:33
sabas3dghu4t one way of looking at it11:34
u4tmate = gtk3 + gnome3 -> gnome3 style; gnome flashback = gtk3 + gnome3 -> gnome2 style; xfce = gtk2 - gnome -> similar to gnome2 style11:35
sabas3dghI have a gpt partition table on bios system. I do have grub_bios partition.  When it asks to install Grub2.  Where should I select?11:35
sabas3dghThat grub_bios partition?11:35
fsmithredgrub will know what to do with that partition11:36
sabas3dghIt is not mbr. It is gpt11:36
sabas3dghNow I am confused11:36
fsmithred something like /dev/sda should work11:36
u4tdo you have an "mbr" option for where to install grub2?11:36
u4talso: are you set up for uefi boot?11:37
sabas3dghu4t I don't know. I am not there yet11:37
sabas3dghI is retrieving bunch of packages11:38
sabas3dghI was stunned, when I saw the retro installer11:39
sabas3dghI thought something most be broken11:39
sabas3dghIs Wayland being installed by default?11:43
fsmithredyou're installing daedalus?11:47
sabas3dghfsmithred; no the latest devuan desktop amd64 iso about 3.5GB11:51
fsmithredstable or testing?  4.0 or 5.0?11:53
sabas3dghI went and downloaded 4.011:54
fsmithredok, you get xorg11:54
fsmithredI didn't know that gnome flashback was in tasksel in chimaera.11:54
sabas3dghI am in.11:56
sabas3dghfsmithred thank you 😊11:56
sabas3dghHow to add nonfree and extra repositories?12:08
fsmithrededit /etc/apt/sources.list12:10
fsmithredso that instead of 'main' it says 'main contrib non-free'12:11
fsmithredwithotu the quotes12:11
fsmithredmaybe a clicky way to do it in synaptic12:11
sabas3dghNo extra?12:11
sabas3dghNo. terminal is fine12:11
fsmithredis that an ubuntu term?12:12
fsmithredjust contrib and non-free like debian. Those are the extras.12:12
sabas3dghGood to know  👍12:16
sabas3dghI have rtl8192eu wifi USB dongle12:25
sabas3dghAny way to make it work12:25
sabas3dghdmesg says failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8192eu_nic.bin12:26
fsmithredinstall firmware-realtek (probably)12:36
sabas3dghHello again12:44
sabas3dghI installed devuan 4 and with it mate desktop.12:45
sabas3dghinside the control center; the date and time section throws GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.timedate1 was not provided by any .service files12:47
sabas3dghis it normal?12:47
sabas3dghas it is I can't set my date& time.12:47
sabas3dghand firefox refuses to show me web pages as my computer date/time is off12:47
sabas3dghanyone of you guys have the same issue?12:49
onefangI use ntpd to set the time.12:54
onefangEr ntpd.12:54
fsmithredthe GDBus errors are normal. We don't use .service files.13:00
sabas3dghfsmithred: I though that could be related to the systemd13:09
sabas3dghthank you13:09
sabas3dghonefang: how?13:13
fsmithredinstall ntp and edit /etc/ntp.conf to include a few timeservers13:14
fsmithreduh.. they changed it. Was ntpdate.13:14
fsmithrednow ntpdig or something like that13:14
fsmithredthat just runs one time, to set the time at boot or manually13:15
fsmithredntpsec-ntpdate is the new name13:15
fsmithredbut just plain old ntp package is the daemon that will keep time always13:16
sabas3dghfsmithred: So the ntp package. I have to install it first?13:17
fsmithredmaybe. Depends on what you answered during the system install.13:17
fsmithreddpkg -l | grep ntp13:18
fsmithredwill show installed packages with ntp in the name (or version)13:18
sabas3dghfsmithred: don't have ntpsec-ntpdate; just ntpdc and ntpq13:31
fsmithredthose are part of ntp package13:34
fsmithred /etc/init.d/ntp status13:37
fsmithredshould say that it's running13:37
furrymcgeehow is it even supposed to work?
onefangUm, I just install ntpd and it works.  shrugs13:45
sabas3dghfsmithred: yes it says running13:49
sabas3dghand where is visudo13:50
sabas3dghnot it the packages as far as I can tell.13:50
sabas3dghand Liking mate so far.13:51
sabas3dghthanks to the person(s) that suggested it.13:51
adam_free2airsabas3dgh: i find apt-file useful for finding utilities where i'm not sure which package they 'live' in )13:51
sabas3dghstill not gnome though13:51
sabas3dghadam_free2air: thanks. i will remeber that13:51
fsmithredyou say that like it's a negative13:51
adam_free2airdifferent dists - especially across the RH/debian divide seem to package certain things differently13:52
sabas3dghadam_free2air: yes; I have that issue right now13:52
sabas3dghfsmithred: no all positive here.13:52
adam_free2airapt-file search visudo returns 'sudo' package on chimaera13:54
fsmithredand it won't be vi, it'll be nano14:02
_ds_Of those two, I'd sooner use nano.14:03
fsmithredor you could just drop a file into /etc/sudoers.d/ and leave the main config file alone.14:03
sabas3dgh_ds_:  yes. nano is easier. but vim is a good choice. isn't it. thanks for the tip. I just figured it out saw the editor isn't vim-like.14:15
used____Ok, this is now a critical bug. Beowulf with latest kernel every reboot changes the order of disk naming, sda sdb, where there are disks on ATA and on SATA interfaces.14:25
used____This is not something one can ignore, even rebooting a new installation not done with UUIDs is not possible, disk order will throw a spanner into fstab setup.14:26
used____What idiots came up with disk renaming anyway.14:26
onefangUm, use UUIDs and ignore it.14:26
_ds_There may not be any renaming going on.14:26
onefangOr use labels and ignore it.14:27
_ds_The order in which the probing is completed may vary across reboots, and that would be enough to mess with the naming.14:28
sabas3dgh  /usr/sbin/ is not in the path. Is this intentional as a security method.14:34
sabas3dghor something wrong with my installation14:34
sabas3dghany ideas?14:40
used____I refuse to "use uuids and ignore it", there is no uuid on the disk which needs to be sleep set. It has no partition table / is raw/14:41
used____NO MORE systemd "solutions" on #devuan please14:41
used____Neither labels nor UUIDs are a proper solution. Serial numbers may be.14:41
used____sabas3dgh: /usr should only have locally installed things, debian iirc puts nothing there.14:42
used____If you need it, add it to your boottime or user path.14:42
used____At least *BSD* sticks to da0 etc naming which locates the name to a specific device interface and the names do not change over reboots.14:43
used____A simple way to "fix" this breakage is to record serial numbers in rc.local at boot time, and write a serial number table to device name mapping to disk, to be used by other scripts.14:46
used____Of course this answers what the devices were at this session, not what they were in the one before it.14:46
used____Any automated install script not using UUIDs or disk labels, i.e. anything which uses raw disks for anything, will fail and eventually write over the wrong disk if not checking every time.14:47
used____This is so broken it beggars belief.14:47
used____More insults: in syslog, sda sdb etc are recorded as found, but the serial numbers ARE NOT. Instead, 5 lines of other useless gibberish referring to the disk IS recorded.14:50
used____"useless" is being polite here.14:51
djphsabas3dgh: that's normal for a non-root account.14:54
djphused____: ... what?14:54
used____djph: ? Did you read what I wrote?14:56
used____There is no way to guarantee /dev/sda will still be /dev/sda after a reboot, if there is no uuid or disklabel in use (raw disk)14:56
djphused____: yeah, either I'm missing context, or need more coffee though.14:56
used____No problem, take it easy. 01.0114:57
djph... so you have a non-partitioned disk that moves around.  That is known (and certainly undesired) behavior.  IIRC, it's to do with the enumeration (and response times?) of the hardware on boot.14:58
djphalthough, it's been forever since I've dealt with it -- was the kernel 2.x days, or early 3.x(?) maybe14:59
used____So: The linux kernel breaks the assumption that on the same machine, the disk raw device name (sda sdb etc) will be the same across reboots. The only fix I can see for now is to script /sbin/hdparm /dev/sd{a,b,c,d,...} to extract a table mapping sd${x} to SerialNo= and store that in perhaps /tmp or log it with logger, so scripts can find what was going on in the current boot session and also what they14:59
used____were working with in the *previous* boot session.14:59
used____djph: it has to do with syslog recording kernel logs without serial numbers, while recording other bs nobody reads.15:00
used____As a 1st stopgap measure.15:00
used____Note that hdparm -i wakes any sleeping disks.15:00
used____So running a script "whenever needed" to get the name<->serial mapping is not a good idea.15:00
used____Imagine what havoc this remapping does when automated installs are in progress and power goes out and comes back.15:01
djphwait, you're losing unformatted disks when they spin down?15:02
djph... that also sounds "normal"15:03
djphI mean, cycling USB drives does that as well... (or maybe it really is abnormal, and I just don't pay enough attention...)15:04
used____Cycling usb drives is another thing.15:05
used____I am talking non removable drives, USB or not.15:05
sabas3dghDo we have group *wheel* in devuan.?15:11
onefangIs that the group for spinning rust?  B-)15:12
used____grep wheel /etc/group -> 1 (no)15:17
used____maybe you need daemon or operator or staff ...15:19
* used____ just realized soft updates in UFS (FreeBSD) remove the certitude of directory moves/renames as atomic operations. Argh.15:19
djphused____: right, so the kernel would lose the enumeration if the drive goes to sleep.  To my understanding, that's somewhat normal with SATA; and why filesystems moved to getting UUID markers15:20
sabas3dghGuys; a nice fact. I was reading that MacOS fonts (by design) doesn't include complete rendering information. So in linux they won't draw as good. but I tried SNF font in linux. the sure look good. any ideas!15:29
sabas3dghon Wayland better than X1115:30
sabas3dghgood days; the infinality days.15:32
sabas3dghI missed it.15:32
used____djph: the solution exists, it is simple, why do I have to rediscover it?15:32
sabas3dghany trick to make fonts in devuan better looking. sharper, more crisp15:32
sabas3dghany ideas guys?15:33
used____Even in serial number less devices (usb sticks), one can use the tuple if:subif:serial to get a unique id15:33
used____sabas3dgh: find out the native resolution of your monitor and ensure your X11 uses the same resolution.15:33
fsmithredsabas3dgh, in xfce menu, Settings, Appearance, Fonts15:35
sabas3dghused____:  ensure your X11 uses the same resolution. **How**?15:36
sabas3dghfsmithred: no noticable difference15:36
fsmithredthere are several things you can change there15:36
used____djph: cat /sys/block/sda/dev does report a device (attached interface) number to name mappping, still unusable w/o a serial15:37
used____sabas3dgh: how: xdpyinfo|less -> dimensions:15:39
sabas3dghused____: I have the first part figured out. the second part? do I need to tweak xorg config? if yes; then How?15:41
used____fsmithred: I can't find an equivalent in eudev for things like `/usr/bin/udevinfo -q all -p /block/sdb` -- is there some package I need to install?15:42
used____sabas3dgh: normally just check they are right, both equal.15:42
fsmithredused____, I don't know15:42
used____sabas3dgh: dmidecode is usually needed to find out what the monitor can do, and dmi table data i  frequently buggy15:42
fsmithredapt-file find udevinfo15:43
fsmithredlibhd-doc: /usr/share/doc/libhd-doc/html/structs__udevinfo__t.html15:43
used____sabas3dgh: In Settings -> Display , what's the reported running size?15:43
used____Also click "Identify Displays"15:43
used____Assuming xfce415:43
sabas3dgh1366x768 60hz15:44
used____sabas3dgh: and what does xdpyinfo report?15:44
used____xdpyinfo|grep dimensions:15:45
used____fsmithred: so install libhd-doc I understand?15:45
fsmithredthere's no executable listed15:45
fsmithredjust some doc15:45
sabas3dgh  dimensions:    1366x768 pixels (361x203 millimeters)15:46
used____No, there is no exec. Maybe there's a workaround?15:46
used____sabas3dgh: ok, so that is sorted, now binr up the monitor's menu and see if there are options such as pixel clock or aliasing or such15:46
used____*bring up15:46
used____sabas3dgh: that's on the monitor's buttons not in linux.15:46
sabas3dghused____: yes I will check15:46
used____pixel clock phase15:47
sabas3dghoh; it is a laptop no such things15:47
fsmithredwhat's the graphics chipset?15:47
fsmithredintel, amd or nvidia?15:47
used____ what does this show you sabas3dgh ?15:48
* used____ just readjusted his monitor for the occasion .... that page is USEFUL15:50
sabas3dghVGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)16:07
fsmithredpossibly installing xserver-xorg-video-intel and/or firmware-misc-nonfree might help16:18
sabas3dghfsmithred: thanks. I just remembered from your reply. Is it possible to install intel-microcode in devuan?16:21
fsmithredsabas3dgh, yes, and it's even called intel-microcode16:24

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