libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2022-02-04

gnarfaceFilipZ: if you can paste some errors at i'll take a guess00:36
gnarfaceFilipZ: i want you to try something first though for me, i think i asked this last time but i don't recall if you actually tested it; with a constant ping to the gateway ip running, move the laptop close to the router and see if that stops the connection drops00:38
gnarfacei know that's not gonna be a permanent solution, we're just testing to see if you're having the same problem i was last time i tried it00:38
gnarface*problems* actually, i've isolated 2 of them, and that is only one of them, but i still have no solutions.  wires are nicer.00:39
av6i was thinking about how practical would it be to use ceres, and one big thing that helped me use debian testing is apt-listbugs06:33
av6it... lists bugs...06:33
av6for packages that are about to be upgraded06:34
av6but since in devuan some packages are forked and can have their own bugs somewhere else, will apt-listbugs work for them?06:34
av6that's my question06:34
av6if some package breaks in ceres, where would the bug report be? on gitea? and there it won't be picked up by apt-listbugs, right?06:36
rrqor do you mean during builds?06:50
jason1234so then, armel is still supported as arch, into Package. nic e that older hardware has still some packages.07:10
jason1234why you run efi? efi is kinda hell if you want flexibility.08:03
sgageJust a PSA here - a lot of folks seem to think Ceres is testing.13:14
sgageIt's not, Daedalus is testing, Ceres is unstable, and tracks sid.13:14
sgageDaedalus has been very solid for me (MATE DE), and gets stuff from Ceres pretty quickly.13:15
stianI asked yesterday about a problem with uefi booting with a new Devuan installation. I got some advice from fsmithred, but was ultimately unable to solve it.14:38
stianIt really doesn't make sense. The hard drive has an uefi boot partition that seems just fine. The computer is able to boot via uefi, because the usb drive that I installed from is detected as an uefi unit. So why is the hard drive not detected as a uefi unit? I've reinstalled Devuan several times and reinstalled the bootloader even more times. I even tried to install Ubuntu instead, but with the same result.14:38
stianI'm thinking now that I might just want to work around the problem by having a usb stick that boots /dev/sda14:39
stianIs this something I can do from one of the Devuan images?14:39
fsmithredyes, it will appear as just another hard drive14:40
fsmithredjust make sure you know which is which - sometimes the bios and grub don't agree on which disk is first.14:40
stianGreat, so how do I edit the grub startup thing and tell it to boot the hard drive instead of the usb?14:41
fsmithredwhen I want to boot from usb, I usually have to press a key to get a boot device menu, and I select the usb stick14:43
fsmithredbut there are other ways14:43
fsmithredyou could just put a /boot partition on the usb stick. (not the efi partition)14:44
stianAh, right, that's not what I'm asking. I can boot from usb, and install Devuan. What I want is that when I finish installing Devuan, I can use the usb in order to continue booting from the hard drive14:45
djphstian: as in having GRUB on the USB instead of on the HDD?14:45
fsmithredif you have a grub on the usb stick and that grub is controlled by a devuan install on the usb stick, then you boot into that system and run update-grub, and it will add any installations on the hard drive to the boot menu14:45
djphsuppose you'd have to stick it there (or probably safer, on a secondary USB drive)14:46
stianAh, yes, that makes sense. Thanks!14:46
stiannow I've gotten as far as having a separate usb stick bootable, detected as an uefi device and containing grub. The current problem is that it only gives me a grub shell. grub-install and update-grub did not help.16:42
stianI tried copying over the exact files from the efi partition on the hard drive to the root of the usb stick, but same result.16:43
stiancould this be because the grub.cfg file doesn't make sense when it's on a separate drive?16:51
stianthis is all it contains:16:51
stiansearch.fs_uuid e4f53f0f-ae73-405f-b721-cc0353aa57cc root hd0,gpt216:51
stianset prefix=($root)'/boot/grub'16:51
stianconfigfile $prefix/grub.cfgy16:51
stianOr, another idea: Is it possible to tell devuan to use bios instead of uefi when installing?16:59
ErRandirIf the disk layout is "dos" and not "gpt" I guess devuan should be forced to use bios mode.18:28
stianRight, I'll try that. Thanks, ErRandir!18:42
nemohuh. TIL systemd does DNS too.19:05
nemohow did I miss that all those years.19:05
nemo(we have 4 ubuntu machines at work)19:06
nemoAlso, after adding a bunch of debug, it ignoring the search line in resolve.conf - odd.19:07
nemoand an amusing if minor systemd footgun. if you do systemctl edit  you are given a text file for editing an override conf. I did this to add debug to resolved.19:37
nemoonce I'd gotten the log spew (including fact that it was ignoring the resolve.conf search line) I tried removing by editing it and deleting what I had written.  good thing I was paying attention to the commandline because it said.19:37
nemo"empty file written. ignoring"19:37
nemoI mean. seriously. WTF.19:38
nemosooo I edited it again and sure enough, my debug overrides were still there. sooo deleted it one more time, and carefully left a carriage return in the file. this was accepted.19:38
stianMy boot mystery is finally solved. Changing to bios did not help, but eventually I tried changing the sata mode in the bios from raid to ahci, and suddenly my hard drive was recognised as bootable.19:39
stianThanks to those who came with advice!19:39
Guest14does devuan have some sort of firmware-devuan.iso with non-free firmware already included into image?20:17
golinuxGuest14: Yes.  An "expert" install is required to avoid non-free firmware.20:34
nemogolinux: so that means the default is non-free?20:41
nemothat's both nice of devuan, and sad that's probably absolutely necessary with modern hardware20:41
nemoI think I have exactly one linux install here without magic proprietary blobs ☹20:41
fsmithredwe avoid a lot of help requests by including the non-free firmware20:42
fsmithredthe live-isos have it installed and have a script to remove it after installation if you prefer.20:42
Guest14yeah, I'd like to install packages via wifi. So I just need to download devuan-*-netinstall.iso and it should probably recognizes non-free drivers for my wifi?20:43
nemoGuest14: wifi is it's own special level of hell, as I keep relearning every time I buy a laptop20:44
nemoGuest14: it depends. if it's an old card, and not esoteric, probably. but as I learned with the new laptop I bought last month, new stuff is all kinds of fun20:44
nemofsmithred: speaking of that laptop.  I think I maybe mentioned I reverted the frankenstein (can one say chimæra 😉) that I had created by pulling in the experimental debian kernel plus the 30 odd packages necessary to build a kernel module, after I realised the github repo I was using supported the chimæra kernel just fine20:45
nemofsmithred: uuunfortunately, that laptop has completely broken ACPI screen brightness on the chimæra kernel - since that was working fine before, I'm guessing that we'll just have to put up with that until that kernel is available in ceres20:46
nemodebian and its derivatives can become an un-updateable mess pretty quickly if you force-install a ton of gcc/glib stuff from differing versions20:47
nemo(that is, until 5.16 makes it to ceres)20:48
nemoGuest14: aaanyway. back to your issue. do you have an exact card model?20:48
Guest14nemo Intel Corporation Wireless 316520:51
nemoGuest14: oh.. huh. I normally have really good luck with intel cards20:54
nemoGuest14: Relying on my tried and true approach of Ducking for hardware models, I saw this:20:55
nemoGuest14: they said they had to change how the device is exposed in the BIOS for linux to pick it up properly20:56
nemomaybe that's the issue with your laptop too?20:56
nemofsmithred: shouldn't the installer add that stuff automatically?20:58
Guest14I don't say that it's not working :D  Rn i'm running Debian 11 but would like to change the init system. I'm just asking if devuan's images have non-free drivers in it20:58
nemoGuest14: oh. I thought this was a fresh install20:58
fsmithrednemo, yeah, it usually adds it automatically.21:02
fsmithredGuest14, are you going to do a fresh install of devuan, or are you planning to migrate your debian to devuan?21:03
Guest14fsmithred, fresh install21:05
fsmithredyou should be able to do the install over wireless. I've done it with iwlwifi on an old thinkpad.21:07
fsmithredoh, you might possibly run into problems with the wireless password. I've seen it fail because of special characters. No password or all lower case worked when I ran into that.21:08
Guest14my wifi's password has no alphabet characters in it21:10
Guest14mb that will save me from troubles ;P21:11
fsmithredlet me know how that works21:36
nemofsmithred: I was forced to remove a ; from my wifi password because too many things were being stupid about it22:33
nemo"invalid password"22:33
nemonot debian, but, yeah22:33
Guest26hello i have a question about building the iso from source22:34
nemoGuest14: fsmithred's the one to go to then22:35
fsmithredyou might be a few minutes early to get a response, but ask anyway22:35
fsmithredyeah, depends on which iso you mean22:35
fsmithred14? I see 2622:35
Guest26the devuan installer iso22:35
fsmithredrrq builds those. Did you see the git repo for it?22:35
Guest26yes  i did22:36
Guest26when i try to build it it says Makefile:23: *** DISTNAME must be set.  Stop.22:37
fsmithredoh, I don't know where that goes22:37
Guest26do you know any way i can make custom devuan iso's22:38
fsmithredlooks like it goes in the makefile22:38
fsmithredMakefile:22:DISTNAME := chimaera22:38
fsmithredbut that's a guess based on a quick grep22:38
fsmithredif you want to make live isos, I can tell you at least two ways to do it.22:39
Guest26ok can i add packages to it?22:39
fsmithredyou can make the live isos to be whatever you want22:40
Guest26ok so how do i it?22:40
fsmithredif you use live-sdk, it builds an iso using a package list. If you use refractasnapshot, it copies the running system to make the iso.22:40
fsmithredso in the latter case, you would have a fresh install exactly how you want it, either on hardware or in a VM>22:41
Guest26 how do i get  refractasnapshot22:41
fsmithredapt-get install refractasnapshot-base22:41
Guest26ok thank you22:41
fsmithredand refractasnapshot-gui if you want clicky.22:41
fsmithredalso refractainstaller-base and -gui22:41
fsmithredif you plan to install it22:41
fsmithredor calamares installer (which requires some setup on your part)22:42
fsmithredif you want live-iso with debian installer, talk to the devs of gnuinos, star or crows.22:42
fsmithred(post in the derivatives section of the forum and they will see it.)22:43
Guest26how do i add the calamares installer22:43
fsmithredapt install calamares calamares-something22:43
fsmithredwarning: it pulls in a lot of qt packages.22:44
Guest26is that all i have to do22:44
fsmithredyou have to configure stuff in /etc/calamares22:44
fsmithredand I've played with it a little, but I don't really know what all the parts do.22:45
Guest26are there manpages on this?22:45
fsmithredthere's a wiki for calamares22:45
Guest26ok thank you22:46
fsmithredhave you used refractainstaller or calamares in the past?22:46
Guest26no i haven't22:47
fsmithredhere's documentation for refracta tools:
fsmithredwhat do you want to do with this iso?22:47
fsmithredjust your personal use, or you making a derivative distro?22:48
brocashelmwe tried to test calamares on devuan/refracta, but kept running into grub problems22:49
brocashelmthere was also an issue with encryption22:50
Guest26just a iso to have with all the packages i need22:50
Guest26then what about live-sdk do i need too add a installer for that22:52
fsmithredbrocashelm, I've done a little more with it, but still some of the same problems.22:52
fsmithredaitor (gnuinos dev) can tell you how to include devuan-installer with live-sdk22:53
fsmithredcrows and stars guys can tell you how to use debian live-build to make devuan live-isos and include devuan-installer22:53
rrqGuest26: lucky web hit for you:
rrqesp its "Step 2"22:56
Guest26i was asking how to make a iso?23:00
rrqyou want an installer + your own packages in it?23:14
rrqate those "yor own packages" some you build yourself, or is it merely your own selection of standard packages?23:16
Guest26well not my own like ones i made just a custom list of packges instead of the default ones23:17
Guest26standard packages23:17
rrqso installer-iso is an option unless you want a "live iso"23:18
Guest26no i dont need a live iso so thats fine23:18
rrqo. I use "" .. and the project is most recently polished to support that way of build (for automation purposes)23:19
rrqyou'd need to add a "list file" nto the pool building23:19
Guest26are you talking about the devuan installer-iso git repo23:20
rrqmaster branch23:20
Guest26ok how do i add a list file into the pool23:20
rrqif it's just some few, then add to the "pool/extra" file ... or make a similar file and add its name to the "INSTALLER = ..." line in the pool/Makefile23:22
rrqthen any netinstall, server or desktop iso that you build will include those packages and anything they depend on, including first-option choice among undecided alternative dpendencies23:25
rrq(and recommends)23:27
Guest26so if put a packages list it will grab the dependencies for me23:28
rrq(if your list includes a non-default choice for an alt-dependency of another package, then the default dependency will not be traversed)23:29
stianI'm trying to set up nfs-ganesha. It seems the package in Devuan has systemd scripts but not for sysvinit:
stianIs there any straightforward procedure for converting a systemd service file to sysvinit?23:58

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