libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2022-04-02

jason1236nemo: because ascii is less junk than the more modern debian releases. it gets worst n worst with debian00:08
djphisn't ascii EOL?01:16
systemdletethe current upgrade is demanding I install avahi.   I don't want to.  Why is this suddenly a dependency of one of the packages I've been using for years WITHOUT avahi?   Did I miss a memo?03:09
brocashelmwhich package is it?03:10
systemdletenot sure.03:10
brocashelmi checked aptitude why-not avahi-daemon and noticed libsane1 is one of those dependencies (libsane1 is installed on my machine, but i don't have avahi-daemon)03:12
systemdleteI did install a new package this past week:  gnome todo.   I wonder if gnome is requiring avahi?03:12
systemdleteI removed avahi-daemon today, with no complaints from apt.   So it seems to be a "soft" dependency03:13
systemdleteI guess I could ban avahi* packages03:13
gnarfacesystemdlete: did you use --no-install-recommends?03:13
gnarfacesystemdlete: it's probably just a recommend not an actual depend03:14
systemdleteno I did not.03:14
systemdleteapt rdepends avahi-daemon | grep Depends03:14
brocashelmpin the avahi* packages and you'll see which upgrades are needing it03:14
brocashelmi use apt pinning03:15
gnarfaceit at least used to be just a recommend, it'd be disappointing if they changed that03:15
brocashelmin your /etc/apt/preference.d dir, create a file for avahi03:15
systemdletewill that prevent installation in the future?03:15
gnarfaceit was recommended for cups and sane for automatic network printer discovery, i can't imagine it would actually need it to work03:16
brocashelmin the file, put this:03:16
brocashelmPackage: avahi*03:16
brocashelmPin: release *03:16
brocashelmPin-Priority: -103:16
brocashelmthen try upgrading and see which packages got affected03:16
brocashelmit will prevent any avahi* package from being installed/upgraded03:16
brocashelmrefracta by default does not come with avahi-daemon03:17
systemdletethanks, brocashelm!   that works nicely.03:17
fsmithred I could never figure out what it was good for03:17
brocashelmsystemdlete: yw03:18
fsmithredI guess it advertises services, which is the opposite of what I want to do.03:18
brocashelmapt pinning (if done right) is a lifesaver03:18
systemdletefsmithred:  The problem is that I added gnome to-do this week.   That, in turn, wants to install avahi.  I did not realize until this morning that avahi had been installed with to-do03:19
systemdleteI think the same would have happened even with refracta.03:19
brocashelmyou can install different versions of packages from other repos if you so prefer. i get my libgtk-3-0 packages from an obs repo that were built for devuan ceres (which i use)03:19
brocashelmlet me check03:19
systemdlete(fsmithred:  I still need to try out refracta on chimaera)03:19
brocashelmsystemdlete: not seeing any avahi here03:20
fsmithredyou should dump gnome-todo and install taskfer (aka todo-fsr, my first bash project)03:20
systemdletehmmm.  Do you see any "to-do"03:20
systemdletetaskfer!  ah, will try that, thanks.  I've been looking for a todo list that isn't broken like thunderbird's task list03:21
brocashelmthis is a list of all the packages that will be installed if i only install gnome-todo03:21
brocashelmi have not installed (aborted the prompt). just wanted to make sure if this would affect me anyway03:22
systemdleteok, I'm convinced.  I did like refracta releases in the past, so I may return to them.03:22
systemdleteyou guys are awesome, as always.03:22
fsmithredmy chimaera isos were updated recently03:23
brocashelmwhat i like most about refracta is it doesn't come with metapackages installed by default03:23
brocashelmso you could remove individual packages without affecting your whole system03:23
systemdletebrocashelm: +1 on that03:23
fsmithredthere are a couple - xorg and cups come to mind03:23
systemdletemeta packages are great if I want to install the entire suite of software.  But otherwise, they can become a nuisance.03:24
brocashelmi convinced my mint friend to switch to devuan once he tried out refracta. he's still using it03:24
brocashelmrefracta also does the right thing by not having pulseaudio installed :D03:24
brocashelmbtw, found out you could run a gvfs-less and policykit-1-less lxqt03:24
brocashelmit's mainly the dbus that's a bitch to remove03:25
fsmithredit was designed by an active community that's no longer active. I stick to the plan as much as possible.03:25
fsmithredI tried to upgrade a chimaera nodbus to daedalus. Gave up and decided I need to start it from scratch. I don't recall what issues I ran into, but it got messy.03:26
brocashelmelogind and dbus are probably the hardest to remove in chimaera and beyond03:26
systemdletesystemd and friends... the "gifts" that keep on giving03:28
systemdletewhy don't those guys just go work for Microsoft, since that seems to be the direction they want to take Linux in anyway03:28
systemdleteGive those jobs to people who actually care about *nix and standards and all that stuff03:29
brocashelmsystemdlete: if you go to #devuan-offtopic, i'd continue that convo with you :)03:29
systemdletebrocashelm... maybe some other time.  I'm needing to do some things here today.  Thanks for the offer.03:29
brocashelmbut i think it would be great if more help came along to remove more systemd spawns from non-systemd distros as it is03:30
brocashelmat least systemd is guaranteed OUT03:30
systemdletewell, I am going around upgrading all of my systems which are due, and others are trying to install avahi even though to-do is not installed there.  Hmm.03:36
systemdleteSo I am creating that pinning file on them03:37
systemdletewell, one other system as it turns out... at least so far.  But I think I'll take the precaution on them now...03:39
systemdletestar linux has a file in preferences.d called avoid-systemd:03:41
systemdletePackage: systemd-sysv03:41
systemdletePin: release o=Debian03:41
systemdletePin-Priority: -103:41
brocashelmi put *systemd* on mine03:42
brocashelmjust in case i use a repo containing systemd (for some packages)03:43
fsmithredthat's an old file from devuan-basefiles, I think. It's no longer needed.03:43
* brocashelm hides his tinfoil hat03:43
systemdletefsmithred:  which repo is taskfer in?03:44
fsmithredit's on my sourceforge site, I think. I'll check.03:44
fsmithredit's not.03:45
fsmithredI'll find it and upload somewhere03:45
fsmithredcouple minutes03:45
fsmithredsystemdlete, it should show up here in a few minutes:
systemdleteseems to complete the install but there is a note at the end, thus:04:06
systemdleteN: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/iso/taskfer_0.06_all.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)04:07
fsmithredwait, what?04:07
systemdleteso that is normal for this package then?04:07
fsmithredhow the hell did you download it?04:07
fsmithredthat's an apt error message04:07
systemdleteI clicked on the link above and saved it to a local deb file04:08
fsmithredI get similar message when I do 'apt download <package>' as root04:08
systemdlete"taskfer" is not anywhere in usual paths apparently04:10
systemdleteso it looks like it really did fail to install04:10
fsmithred -h FTW04:11
fsmithredsystemdlete, is it there?04:12
systemdletethis is a text gui?04:12
fsmithredlol, yes. I said "bash project"04:12
fsmithreddon't dismiss it for that reason04:12
fsmithredlook at --help04:12
systemdletewhat is "todoTAB"?04:12
fsmithredand read whatever04:13
fsmithredTAB completion04:13
systemdleteI don't see that when I run todo-fsr at the commandline04:13
fsmithredyou know about that, right?04:13
fsmithreddon't see what?04:13
systemdleteI just didn't realize it was command line04:14
systemdletewell, you typed todo-fsr then todoTAB, so I thought you meant invoke it as todo-fsr then go to the "todo" gui tab...04:15
fsmithredzless /usr/share/doc/taskfer/README.gz04:15
systemdlete(yes I know about command completion, I use it all the time)04:15
fsmithredno gui, but some tricky things you can do with it.04:15
systemdletethanks, I'll look at this some more later.04:17
fsmithredlol, me too. I need to read it all.04:17
nemojason1236: dunno about the junk thing, but isn't that why you're on devuan?  anyway, are you sure it has support for the hardware you are using? that's the main issue with unsupported releases20:08

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