libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2022-08-02

rwpI have become fond of the full manual debootstrap installation for myself.  But that requires being very comfortable with doing everything yourself.01:10
systemdleteE: Release file for is expired (invalid since 1d 2h 43min 48s). Updates for this repository will not be applied.05:03
systemdleteI am only seeing this on one system, a laptop.  But not anywhere else.05:03
systemdleteI am pretty sure the apt configs are identical.05:04
systemdleteI ran "apt upgrade" on laptop and my host system, which use the same apt config.  But the host system does not have this error while the laptop does.05:08
systemdlete(I also checked the system times on both, thinking maybe a problem with security due to time differences.  But the date/time is the same)05:09
systemdleteThe error has disappeared now, but still... what caused that?  Anyone?05:27
onefangsystemdlete: do you know the IP addresses apt was using at the time for on those systems?09:42
systemdletehmmm.  Unless it is still in my scrollback, I probably won't.   But let me look...09:43
systemdletewhen I pinged, it was, but maybe the repo is at a different addr09:44
systemdlete(I should have checked
systemdletebut my laptop is on my local wireless, and the wireless goes out via the same router and modem.   Why would the addresses be OK for all but the laptop?09:45
systemdleteI mean, why would the laptop be getting a different repo address than the rest of my devuan systems at the same time?09:46
ltsThat's round robin for you09:46
onefangCoz it's a DNS Round Robin, I'm not sure exactly how apt gets it's IPs from that.09:46
systemdleteso are you telling me that apt gets an address and it is stuck with it for a while?  I didn't think that would be the case.09:47
systemdleteI figured it was more dynamic than that.09:47
ltsI confirm gives that error.09:48
ltsLet me check the rest while at it09:48
onefangWell it should stick with that IP for one run, but who knows how your DNS caching works at your end.09:48
systemdleteMy entire network uses one dnsmasq server09:48
systemdleteand, afaik, the laptop does not have a dnsmasq server (or bind, etc)09:49
lts160.16.137.156 same error09:49
systemdletelts:  It was only for a few minutes, maybe 15-2009:49
systemdleteeventually, the problem cleared itself.09:49
ltsYes, that's round robin for you. You need to enforce the resolution to a specific ip e.g. with /etc/hosts to be really able to test it09:50
onefang160.16.137.156 is very slow to update.  I should remove it from the DNS-RR and send them an email.09:50
onefang54.36.142.179 isn't part of the DNS-RR for
ltsThe rest of the RR IPs work fine for me09:52
systemdleteLike I said, I ping'd the wrong address when the problem was occuring.  Next time, I will try to remember to ping the address09:52
systemdleteonefang:  Does linux cache DNS addresses, even with a DNS server?  I thought you had to run something like dnsmasq or bind, or else point to a DNS server.09:53
onefangThis is why I wrote apt-panopticon, so it can probe package mirrors in many ways on a regular basis.09:53
systemdleteeven withOUT a DNS server, sorry09:54
onefangDunno for sure.  I recently switched to unbound and it seems to be caching less.  lol09:54
ltssystemdlete: check out what "TTL" means in DNS context. Use the "dig" command to see what's happening09:54
systemdletenslookup OK?09:54
systemdleteI have both dig and nslookup09:55
ltsI believe you need dig for this09:55
systemdleteok, thanks09:55
systemdleteBut I'll have to wait until I see this again.09:55
onefangapt-panopticon uses dig for digging around DNS.09:55
systemdletethings seem to be working ok now09:55
ltsSpecifically, use "dig" a few times and observe how the result changes, and the TTL cache time counts down each second09:56
systemdleteI wonder if low battery on the laptop might play a role here... the battery was low at the time, was recharging less than 20%09:57
systemdletelts, what if the wireless went out for a moment when apt was trying to connect (apt runs via a remote operation)09:58
systemdleteon a low battery, maybe wireless gets flakey09:58
ltsNo, this is about how round robin works. To spread the load between several servers, each client randomly chooses the result from the round robin pool. When you query for the A record of, it first returns an alias (CNAME) of, and then returns a dozen or so IP addresses. Your client randomly chooses one each time10:00
onefang160.16.137.156's weekly stats are way down on apt-panopticon, so I'm removing it from the DNS-RR.  Though I think I JUST missed the update window for that.  lol10:00
systemdleteclient, is that the local dnsmasq server?10:04
systemdleteI only have one dns server on my entire network.  It servers all my hosts, VMs, laptop, etc.10:05
systemdleteit serves, not servers... (sorry for all these typos)10:06
ltsYour local dnsmasq server resolves your query and then caches it for the TTL period. It is a client for its upstream server, and a server for the client in your laptop. Likely the dnsmasq's upstream server is also a caching server, acting as a client for its upstream, until an authoritative DNS server is found10:13
ltsThe result always contains the full dozen or so IPs, it's your endpoint which chooses from them10:14
ltsBecause your endpoint keeps choosing different IP addresses (as it is supposed to), you saw the problem go away. Most of the IPs worked fine10:15
systemdletelts:  Thanks for that explanation.  So a local linux box, say my laptop, does not really  cache anything (maybe certain programs do though)10:15
gnarfacei know firefox does cache dns results until restarted10:16
ltsSome programs indeed do10:16
systemdleteexactly.  ok.10:16
ltsPractically all of them obey the TTL though, and fetch a new result after TTL has expired10:17
gnarfacenormally you should not see caching, however i have also had issues in the past when i used to use dnsmasq with it also caching stuff for too long, but i think i actually had set it to do that and simply forgotten10:17
systemdleteso if my dnsmasq dns server was holding various values for at moment X when this error was occurring ONLY on the laptop...10:17
ltsYour other endpoints probably randomly picked an IP which worked. Your laptop was unlucky10:18
systemdleteSo the endpoint obtained a new list and randomly picked a bad one, while my other boxes and VMs did not share that fate.10:19
systemdleteah, ^10:19
gnarfacei'm noticing a lot more of these mirrors are resolving as ipv6 addresses than before, that might enter into the problem10:20
onefangAll but three of them on the DNS-RR have IPv6.10:20
systemdletehmmm.  I know for a fact I don't do any ipv6 here.10:21
onefangShould not be a problem if you don't have IPv6, apt wont use that.10:21
systemdleteeventually perhaps.  but for now, I'm happy with ipv410:21
onefangI don't have IPv6 at home.  I used to, before I moved.  I want it back.  lol10:22
onefangI may need to send one of my servers IPv6's down my VPN.10:22
onefangCoz otherwise that's installing FTTC into my bedroom, and with the cost of living going up, my pension can't afford that.  Had FTTP into my old bedroom.10:23
onefangYeah I did miss the window for DNS-RR updates.  So gotta wait half an hour for that change to get through the system.10:26
systemdleteonefang:  Thank you for looking at this and taking action on it.10:28
onefangYou are welcome.  That's my only job here, package mirror herder.10:28
systemdleteI'll try not to get as hyper next time this happens.  Apparently, this is a little fallout from an otherwise normal situation.  I couldn't possibly do anything about it myself anyway10:28
systemdleteI just found it a little peculiar.  But now, after you and tls responded, it is making more sense to me.  I can see how it happens... intermittently :headslap:10:29
onefangYeah it's always possible you hit a mirror while it was updating, but they should not be a day out of sync.  I'm trying to get them all to sync every 30 minutes.10:30
* onefang wanders off to do other stuff.10:31
systemdleteIt looks like dnsmasq is giving me 15 addresses.   How do I find out which one apt is actually using?10:32
gnarfacerun jnettop or tcpdump?10:32
systemdleteYou said it was random.  But in order to determine who is being the bad guy, I'd need to know that, right?10:32
systemdletetcpdump, my old friend10:33
gnarfacei'm not sure there's no way to get apt to actually cough up the ip address in the console output... maybe check the man page for options related to verbosity10:33
gnarfacebut yea i'd probably just cheat and sniff the network traffic10:34
gnarfacejnettop is a little friendlier than tcpdump10:34
gnarfacenot as light-weight10:35
systemdleteapt debug option10:35
systemdletenever heard of jnettop.  ntop, tcpdump, wireshark, etc.10:36
ltsIf you need to enforce a dns result, you can use /etc/hosts (on the endpoint) for it. It is ~always checked before any DNS query is sent10:37
ltss/dns result/dns result for A or AAAA/10:38
systemdleteright.  But if I am trying to figure out which one is the bad guy, I'd have to do some digging10:39
onefangapt usually does cough up the IP in the console when there is issues.10:39
onefangOr just pick a mirror.10:40
ltsUnfortunately this error message was one where it does not10:41
systemdleteyeah, it doesn't here.10:42
systemdletebut I think I understand how to deal with it, should it re-occur10:42
systemdletewish apt would handle this more elegantly.  Like, transparently, maybe?10:43
ltsYou basically just retry and your client will choose another IP, which has 93.3% probability to be a different from a set of 1510:43
systemdletelts, I actually tried multiple times, on the laptop and some of the other systems here.10:44
onefangapt-panopticon has a "URL sanity" test, which is there coz of an old apt bug.  More elegance would be good.  lol10:46
ltsInteresting. That does sound like some sort of caching of a single IP. I hit the same error myself yesterday on a host and a simple retry right afterwards worked10:46
systemdletelts, as you suggest, I figured retrying would help.  but this was going on for a good 15-20 minutes.10:47
systemdleteI did try.10:47
ltsSounds like something in your setup does not handle round robin results appropriately, if they only cache a single IP from a result of 15 IPs10:48
systemdletewhat does the cacheing on my laptop?  It is not running dnsmasq or bind or another dns server.  Is this done in, say, libc?  Or is this a kernel thing?10:48
systemdleteI mean, specifically, the local (laptop) caching?10:49
ltsapt should not cache it, and should always query the server in your /etc/resolv.conf* file(s)10:49
systemdleteso apt should initiate a call to my dnsmasq server every time it runs.  Which means apt is not caching it then.10:50
systemdleteand my resolv.conf file was not modified before, during, or after this incident.10:51
systemdleteon the laptop I mean10:51
ltsrun "dig" and you can see what server is used10:51
systemdleteit sounds like you are saying a problem with dnsmasq10:51
systemdleteOh, I know which server is used.10:51
systemdletethe laptop's /etc/resolv.conf is pointed at my LAN dns server (dnsmasq)10:52
systemdleteso I don't need to dig for that.10:52
ltsIn your scenario I would look at dnsmasq caching first, yes10:52
systemdletebut if it were a problem in dnsmasq, then I would expect similar issues more frequently, and on a variety of hosts10:53
ltsShould be easy to test with "dig"10:53
systemdleteI mean, I guess it could have been a momentary glitch10:53
systemdletelts:  YOu mean run dig on the dnsmasq host?10:54
systemdletenot on the laptop10:54
systemdletebecause, on the laptop, it will show the dnsmasq server address (and it does)10:54
ltsBoth ways give you separate pieces of information10:54
systemdleteAt any rate, I'll do more investigation next time if it happens10:55
systemdletethank you both for the info10:55
systemdletewell, everyone that is.  There's been more than just lts and onefang helping here10:55
ltsEnjoy, DNS is a great source of fun and interesting things10:56
furrymcgeether are options to log dns queries in dnsmasq10:56
systemdleteis it ever...10:56
systemdleteah, good idea, furrymcgee.  Thanks!10:57
systemdleteYOu know what.  I even tried restarting dnsmasq while this was going on.  Sorry I forgot that tidbit.10:57
systemdleteseveral times in fact.10:57
systemdleteI thought maybe there was a an issue with dnsmasq (and it does seem like that could have been the case)10:58
furrymcgeeyou can also strace -f apt update |& grep inet_addr10:58
ltsIt could be the source of the issue (only returning the faulty IP) is even higher upstream than your dnsmasq server10:58
onefangSooo, on the subject of DNS servers...  As I mentioned I have recently switched to unbound, coz it supports all these new ways of DNS lookups.11:40
onefangBut it often fails.  My various things that regularly lookup DNS to do something (fetchmail, web page refreshes, icinga) will several times a day fail to find them.11:41
ltsSounds like there is an issue with its forwarding servers11:42
onefangMost of them are my own server, or servers I look after.11:42
ltsMy unbounds are rock solid using as upstream/forwarding. I did have similar issues you describe with my ISPs servers, though.11:43
onefangI'm using the stock config of Chimaera's unbound.  What do I tweak?11:43
onefangI usually avoid my ISPs servers, no matter who they are.  lol11:43
ltsOoh, there is plenty for you to configure then. Unbound has lots of nifty features not enabled by default11:44
lts is the config to set your upstream servers to using DoT11:44
onefangAh good old Arch docs.11:44
ltsPlenty of unbound configs on the internet, muscle memory often leads to arch wiki though :-)11:45
onefangI did already have that page open, but was hoping someone had a quick Devuan fix.11:45
onefangAnhd that first option Arch mentions tls-system-cert doesn't seem to exist in Chimaera's version.  lol11:51
onefangAh "tls-cert-bundle or use tls-win-cert" sayeth the manual.11:52
ltsThe one in debian/devuan stable is indeed very old, but unfortunately backporting is not deemed necessary either. I've compiled from unstable deb-src the latest one11:53
ltsMain reason for that was the ability to drop AAAA queries completely in an ipv4 network, which came in 1.15.1 IIRC11:54
onefangWell stable has "do-ip6", and I'd much prefer to stick with stable for most things.11:56
ltsThat is a separate thing - do-ip6 only controls does the server respond or issue using ipv6. Happy eyeballs causes clients to typically send both AAAA and A queries despite ipv4-only environment, and sometimes that AAAA query takes a long time11:59
ltsBut yeah, it's not a showstopper. Should be available in daedalus when released12:00
furrymcgeedoes have a public dns server?12:01
onefangThere's also prefer-ip4.12:01
ltsIt will happily send that AAAA query over ipv4 :-)12:02
onefangtls-cert-bundle: "/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt"12:03
onefanginstead of the unsupported tls-system-cert: yes12:04
onefangAnd it works at least.  Now to wait a day and see if it stops not finding my own servers.12:04
ltsAh, found it. The setting I'm referring to is "aaaa-filter: yes"12:04
onefangWell since I WANT IPv6, and should eventually get around to adding IPv6 to my desktop some day, plus once I have unbound working fine on my desktop I'll put it on my servers, which have IPv6 .... that option doesn't interest me at all.  B-)12:07
onefangSeems to have fixed reverse lookups to.  Which was the next thing I was gonna bitch about.  lol12:09
onefangfurrymcgee: If you mean a DNS server you can point your resolver at, not that I know of.12:21
onefangObviously there's our DNS zone server for providing things like to the world.12:22
furrymcgeewould it be possible to use round robin to select the nameserver itself?12:31
ltsThat is what the optional "rotate" setting in resolv.conf is for12:33
oscareczekhi, I have 2 problems after migrating from Debian Stable on my X230 with Plasma16:07
oscareczek1. micmute button doesn't work, on systemd acpi_listen outputs `button/f20 F20 00000080 00000000 K`, on sysv it's `button/micmute MICMUTE 00000080 00000000 K`, latter isn't detected in Plasma settings at all; similarly, ThinkVantage was `button/prog1 PROG1 00000080 00000000 K` and is `button/vendor VNDR 00000080 00000000 K`16:09
gnarfacejust guessing but try installing acpid if it's not, then check for some configurable setting for the button in plasma if it is16:10
oscareczek2. I can't get wireguard to start at boot - manually starting this with $local-fs to $local_fs works, update-rc.d created rc[0-6]/*wg016:10
oscareczekacpid is already started, configurable settings in Plasma don't detect buttons16:11
gnarfacethe second one is probably something simple if it works when run manually16:12
oscareczekyeah, I feel like I'm missing something trivial16:12
gnarfacethe script file in /etc/init.d has to be executable, and has to end in .sh if you don't have proper LSB headers16:13
oscareczekit is +x, I have lsb-{base, release} installed16:13
gnarfacemake sure it isn't checking for a flag in a file in /etc/default/16:13
oscareczekI don't see any mention of /etc/default and there's nothing there connected to wireguard16:14
gnarface(by LSB headers i mean the text block in the top of the script containing $local_fs, etc... double check that against a working script)16:14
oscareczekoh, lol16:15
oscareczekthey look fine16:16
gnarfacewireguard needs root permissions?16:16
oscareczekiirc yes16:16
gnarfaceis it getting them from that script?16:16
gnarfaceif it's being run as another user, that user might not have the proper permission but systemd wouldn't care16:17
oscareczekwell, it should be launched from /etc/rc2.d/S02wg0 automatically and I don't su anywhere, so I guess it has root permissions…?16:18
gnarfaceis the file in /etc/init.d called wg0?16:18
ltsRace condition with ethernet not yet up / not yet having an IP?16:19
lts*ethernet or wifi16:19
gnarfaceyea maybe that... make sure the LSB headers contain $network16:19
oscareczekthey do contain RequiredStart: $network16:19
oscareczekwith hyphen16:19
gnarfaceand there's evidence of it trying to start in the output of dmesg at all?16:20
gnarface*no evidence?16:21
oscareczekit is loading, but earlier than my WLAN driver16:21
ltsI'm not fully trusting $network really means the device has connectivity yet. I remember using a "ping until success or timeout" loop for some services16:21
oscareczekso it looks indeed like it's a race16:21
gnarfacethere's some other things you can throw into Required-Start that should reliably come up later i think16:22
gnarfaceor you could just run it from /etc/rc.local which should run absolutely last16:22
oscareczekhmm, let's try that16:23
ltsRequired-Start: $all is also a possibility16:23
oscareczekis just adding `/etc/init.d/wg0 start` at the end enough?16:24
gnarfacefrom the init.d maybe you could try something like $syslog $time $remote_fs16:24
gnarfaceor $all yea16:24
gnarfaceuh, you'd add that to the /etc/rc.d before the "exit 0" on the last line16:24
gnarfaceer, i mean the /etc/rc.local16:25
gnarfacebut yea it should run as root implicitly16:25
gnarfaceworth a try anyway16:25
gnarfaceonly other thing i can think of is if the program you're trying to run insists on being started from an interactive shell16:25
gnarfacemaybe also increase "02" in the "S02" to a higher number but it might not matter anymore16:27
oscareczekI tried Required-Start: $all, didn't help16:35
oscareczekI don't have exit 0 anywher in rc.local16:36
gnarfacehmm, pretty weird16:36
gnarfacei wonder if you're missing a package16:36
gnarfacedo you have the "initscripts" package installed?16:36
oscareczekit's in initscripts, I reinstalled it, didn't changed16:36
gnarfaceyou have "sysv-rc" installed too?16:37
oscareczekI do automatically16:37
gnarfacesuspicious, but just add "exit 0" to the end of the rc.local file16:37
oscareczekokay then16:37
gnarfacethe only other thing in the stock one is some comments16:38
oscareczekI also have `run-parts /etc/boot.d` if this file is present16:38
gnarfacei'm not sure what boot.d is from, i don't have that here16:39
gnarfaceyou migrated from debian stable to devuan stable? chimaera?16:40
oscareczekadding the service at the end of rc.local also didn't help16:40
linux_nWhen i run this command: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:linuxuprising/apps i get this error --->  Error: could not find a distribution template for Devuan/chimaera16:40
linux_nAnyone know how to fix?16:40
gnarfaceoscareczek: you did "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" right?16:41
oscareczekI followed the migration tutorial from A to Z16:41
gnarfacelinux_n: ubuntu repos won't work16:41
gnarfaceoscareczek: something is fishy for sure here. not sure what we're missing but you should be able to get something to run from /etc/rc.local even if it's just an echo... the rc.local file is set to executable right?16:42
oscareczekit is16:43
gnarfaceok, couple other sanity checks16:44
oscareczekI mean, it is progress since wireguard started slightly later16:44
gnarfacemake sure /bin/sh is a link to bash not dash16:44
oscareczekjust still not late enough16:44
linux_nCan tlpui be installed on devuan or not possible on devuan?16:44
gnarfacemake sure "ENV_SUPATH" in /etc/login.defs contains: PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin16:44
oscareczekit is16:45
gnarfacelinux_n: never heard of it16:45
oscareczekhmm, the link was actually wrong, but again, my problem isn't that the service doesn't start, but that it starts too soon16:46
gnarfacelinux_n: it's not in the list of banned packages so maybe try building it16:46
oscareczekit parses the file16:46
gnarfaceoscareczek: oh, you're sure it gets run16:46
gnarfaceoscareczek: i thought that was still in question16:46
gnarfacei wonder if it's hanging waiting for wifi then timing out or something16:46
gnarfaceany way to get wifi out of the loop as a test?16:47
oscareczekfrom what I remember on another machine, I think it immediately fails because it can't find domain16:47
gnarfaceit really should have worked from /etc/rc.local though unless it needs wifi to be actually up...16:47
linux_ngnarface: Ok16:48
oscareczekI don't have a cable to connect to the router and I believe it really needs to be able to access DNS server before anything16:48
gnarfaceoscareczek: well the thing is depending on your install i think wifi might not actually connect until you login to a GUI16:48
oscareczekhow do I make it as soon as possible with NetworkManager?16:49
gnarfacei'm the wrong person to ask about that, i would have just put the config into /etc/network/interfaces by hand already16:49
oscareczekwell, that still requires wpa_supplicant16:50
oscareczekso same question, but with that16:50
gnarfacei'm not saying networkmanager can't do it, i'm just saying i don't know much about networkmanager16:50
gnarfaceyea, it'd still need wpa_supplicant but if the config was in /etc/network/interfaces directly, it would start wpa_supplicant on demand16:50
oscareczekalso, that isn't really an option, it needs to be really idiot-proof, it's my mother's laptop16:51
gnarfacehmm, i wonder if we're going about this the wrong way now that i think of it... maybe the right way to do this with networkmanager is to have networkmanager start wireguard16:51
oscareczekso I can't really hardcode IP because well, I don't know where she'll connect16:51
oscareczekhmm, maybe?16:51
gnarfacenote that /etc/network/interfaces can use dhcp though, no IP hardcoding necessary16:52
gnarfacefinding a place to put the password for people who can't use textfiles would be a problem though16:52
gnarfaceyea see if the networkmanager gui has a field for post-up commands or something16:53
gnarfacethere might be an extra package for it or something16:55
gnarfacewireguard-tools? dunno16:55
fifiopenbsdwow gnarface, you're still alive, wow!16:56
rrqoscareczek: I'm not sure with networkmanager but dhclient might have "enter/exit hooks" for scripts16:57
rrqthat'd be a good place for virtul cabling to spring to life16:58
rrqfor it's "man dhclient-script"16:58
rrqfor me it's "man dhclient-script"17:00
gnarfaceoh, dhclient hooks are a good call too, because then you know the wifi has handed you a dhcp configuration which would happen last17:00
gnarfacesystem might detect wifi "up" as soon as there's a link, well before the response from the dhcp server17:00
gnarfaceand if your wifi is slow to finish the handshake that can cause significant problems17:01
oscareczekokay, yeah, I completely forgot I can configure wg with networkmanager, that works, thanks17:01
gnarfacewhew ok one problem down then17:02
gnarfacei'm afraid i don't know how to remap buttons in kde though17:02
gnarfacestill can't even figure out how to call a shell script from a desktop icon there (i prefer enlightenment, which is less stable but much more obedient)17:03
gnarfacesomeone around here has gotta know about kde though17:04
oscareczekI don't really think it's KDE's problem, rather systemd doing everything except being a good init17:04
oscareczekbecause *something* clearly renames these buttons17:04
gnarfacei thought that was the kernel or Xorg or something though17:05
gnarfaceit is weird that they're even different17:05
gnarfacethey shouldn't be different, and neither should either of those packages17:05
gnarfacexorg and the kernel are not forked17:05
gnarfacebut i doubt kde is either...17:06
gnarfacedoesn't seem like there's anywhere else to point the blame but acpid17:07
gnarfacealso not forked though17:07
gnarfaceoscareczek: can you check the button signals with xev?17:07
gnarfacejust as a sanity check, make sure they're reporting the same thing17:12
oscareczekafk for now, I guess I'll try in an hour17:21
oscareczekor nvm, I managed to find a moment17:25
oscareczekxev is silent17:25
oscareczekfor these keys, that is, it reports everything else17:25
gnarfacenow that's weird17:26
gnarfacewhen it was on debian had you used anything from backports?17:27
gnarfacejust grasping at straws here but theoretically something from backports might have not been properly replaced during the upgrade from debian to devuan17:27
gnarfacetheoretically this could be some bug in libinput or something like that i think, but it'd likely have to be somehow a different version from the one you were using, or the wrong version for debian17:28
gnarfaceer, devuan17:28
gnarfacedid you have a special keymap set?17:29
oscareczekpl2, which is just us with different stuff behind RAlt17:29
gnarfacesomething other than the default for "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" ?17:29
oscareczekI never touched keyboard-configuration since debian installer17:30
gnarfaceyou might want to double check it's still set right17:30
oscareczekkeyboard is pc105 currently and likely since the beginning17:30
hightower2hey is there a devuan image for qubes?21:02
gnarfaceis that some sort of arm system?21:05
gnarfaceor a virtual server?21:06
lts I presume (which I also use)21:06
ltsAnd no, I haven't heard of one21:06
ltsBasically a hypervisor + desktop, segmenting your use. Debian and Fedora come as standard.21:08
hightower2yes, qubes-os21:14
gnarfacecan you just upgrade a debian image to devuan? would it work?21:16
hightower2I guess it'd work only if all the system commands qubes executes remain exactly the same21:16
gnarfacewell does it rely on systemd stuff?21:17
hightower2it's defined in the template21:17
hightower2(trying to find a doc documenting template creation so we can see)21:17
ltsDefinitely worth a try. I can't right away think of a reason what would be a showstopper21:17
ltsI've mentally resigned from the idea of purging systemd from the qubes machine. The main hypervisor will always run fedora anyway21:18
gnarfacewell, worth a try but have a backup first21:18
ltsFortunately backups are very easy, as qubes is all about everything being a virtual machine21:19
ltshightower2: test and tell us, please?21:19
hightower2trying to find a debian template def21:20
hightower2I guess this would be relevant in case of in-place ugprades:
ltsIt is21:21
kolofonhi, i'm an apparent spammer at dev121:58
kolofoni wrote a few days back about it here and nothing's changed21:58
kolofonwould someone like to help me?21:59
gnarfacekey kolofon someone saw your message, but you were already gone21:59
gnarfacegolinux: kolofon is back21:59
kolofoni was told i wouldn't need to do a thing, so i went22:00
kolofonshould i wait now?22:01
gnarfaceyea, wait. i dunno what else is needed from you, sorry22:01
kolofonok, i'll be around for a while. thanks.22:02
kolofonbtw, i recently installed devuan and i like it22:03
gnarfaceyou're welcome to stay connected even if you're not still there. it might improve your ability to get a response...22:03
kolofonhow would i stay connected?22:03
kolofonok, i think i understand22:04
gnarfaceyou won't be kicked from this end for being idle22:04
kolofonyes, clear22:04
kolofonthat would be weird though22:04
gnarfacemost the other people here do it, it's less weird than you think22:04
kolofondo you mean i should shut up?22:04
kolofoni don't use irc much22:05
gnarfaceno, i just mean that if you're still connected and someone has to ask you a question or give you instructions, then the reply will be in your scrollback history22:05
kolofonnext to never in fact22:05
gnarfaceif you disconnect then nobody can reply to you22:05
kolofonyes, that's a pity22:05
golinuxI am here kolofon!22:06
kolofonis it not recorded some public place?22:06
gnarfaceoh it is logged actually too22:06
brocashelmbig brother is watching ;)22:07
eyalrozbrocashelm: Does that comment have anything to do with the fact that your nickname begins with "bro"?22:08
eyalrozSo, fsmithred, golinux, other channel denizens - I've installed daedalus. Would you guys like another 3-4 forum posts with complaints/peeves following the installation?22:10
eyalrozLike my series of posts last year?22:10
brocashelmeyalroz: no, my nick is taken from a heavy metal band named brocas helm22:36
golinuxeyalroz: You are certainly predictable . . . LOL!22:38
eyalrozgolinux: Ok... but, is that a yes or a no?22:39
golinuxYou do not need anyone's permission to post on the forum.22:42
kolofonok, done. thanks for help, gnarface.23:15
eyalrozOn another note... what is the "right way" to keep a standalone, self-updating version of firefox (or thunderbird), rather than the distro-provided one? I've been using the alternatives mechanism to link to /opt/firefox/firefox , but this has some glitches, with apps occasionally trying to start the other copy of firefox,23:59

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