libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2022-10-24

chomwitthi. looking for some desktop neutral power management interfaces i found uswsusp . But it's not included in Chimaera.11:26
chomwittany similar alternatives ?11:26
chomwitti've tried also pm-utils but looks unmaintained for many years11:27
chomwittxmm it seems that  uswsusp is also stale11:40
fsmithredchomwitt, I think there's been no activity on pm-utils because it works.12:39
chomwittok fsmithred . i just had the impression that standby and hibernation are operations that with new hardware should need updates13:53
fsmithredI'm not on new hardware, but I haven't heard any complaints about that. It's easy enough to try it and see if it works.13:55
chomwittok. i ll try pm-utils14:08
chomwitti wonder though why it's not listed in related arch page both pm-utils and  uswsusp14:14
chomwitti found a reference to uswspc in another arch wiki page as a lower power management interface14:17
chomwittand interestingly in a debian handbook power management is presented as problematic :
chomwitti install pm-utils in my old laptop for starters and it seem to work14:22
chomwittin my desktop pm-suspend worked ok. pm-hibernate no.15:31
chomwittmaybe in a desktop pm-hibernate is not needed but anyway it doest work.15:33
chomwitts/doest/does not15:33
xrogaanmy mail doesn't seem to get through the mailing list.15:48
golinuxxrogaan: pm about the ml issue18:35
rwpchomwitt, For hibernate to work one needs compatible hardware+drivers which are most often the problem. Needs enough swap to hold all memory.  Needs that set in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume eg RESUME=/dev/sda621:15
rwpIf all of those things converge okay then hibernate to disk and resume from it will work.21:15
rwpOh and make sure if the resume location is modified that the initramfs is rebuilt for it.21:16
gnarfacealso if you have one of those bioses that has a setting for "memory hole at 15k" or whatever, it needs to be in some specific state (ON, i think, last i checked)21:17
gnarface(maybe it's OFF actually, i am not sure)21:17
chomwittthanks rwp and gnarface21:25
chomwitti dont understand how acpid and pm-tools are related. There is not stated conflict so i guess acpid is user for automatic event triggered suspend and pm-tools for manual ?21:28
rwpacpid and pm-tools are not related.  acpid handles ACPI events.  pm-tools interacts with Pavel Machek's power management system.21:29
rwpThough an acpi rule might trigger a suspend and then cross over into using pm-tools.21:30
chomwittrwp, i have 64 GB RAM so i would need 64GB swap for hibernation to succeed?21:30
rwpWhen the power button is pressed it generates an ACPI event.  That event is handled by the acpid.21:30
rwpRegarding 64GB of RAM, WOOT!  But yes I think that means you need at least 64GB of swap.21:31
rwpThere are those who will advocate for the compressed ram driver but I think that is playing with fire since it is data dependent if it can compress it enough to fit a smaller size or not.21:31
chomwittso acpi can trigger power management command but is a more  general facility21:31
rwpAlso I don't think it can be a file system swap file, but not sure, that's a Don't Know for sure from me.  But I think it would be riskier than regular swap.21:32
rwpI think if you are short of swap, but wanted to test that everything else was working, that one could boot with mem=2g or whatever the syntax is and limit memory of that boot and then try it with the limited memory being active small enough to fix the current swap.  I think.21:33
rwpMost often a kernel driver is reported as being buggy and unable to resume from suspend.  Problems fighting kernel driver bugs and hibernate are legion.21:34
gnarfacei do also remember a long ago discussion about defragging system ram after purging all caches to make the required hiberation/swap partition something less than the entirety of physical ram but i don't know if that ever actually worked and do recall it required a static and well understood list of running programs21:36
gnarfacetheoretically it might be possible, but the failing case is indistinguishable from all the others21:36
gnarfacekindof a problem with hibernation in general21:36
gnarfacebut if you could get your entire ram footprint down to for example, 2gb of that 64gb, and make sure it was all at the FRONT of the addressable space, you could in theory get away with only 2gb of swap for hibernate21:37
gnarfacei feel pity for you though if it really came to having to try that21:38
gnarfaceif i had a machine with 64gb of physical ram i'd probably just leave it on21:38
gnarfaceoh yea, and on the drivers front - if you're using a nvidia card i can save you some time: just give up on this now22:10
gnarfacethey don't even come out of sleep right, let alone hibernate22:11
gnarfacebut they'll sorta appear to be mostly fine, superficially, which well end up being somehow worse22:11

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