libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2022-12-02

bblissrwp, yeah, that's what I'm trying to influence.  I'm trying to influence the devuan-dev folks' choices for how to configure the kernel, and which optional modules to include alongside it.  Right now, the 6.0.0-5 kernel does not have a suitable driver included or configured. The "linux on T2" wiki indicates that such a kernel module exists, but it's not present in Daedalus by default, apparently?00:15
bbliss(required dkms and git clone'ing a random github repo)00:15
bbliss(not sure what mainline Debian is doing with it, though, if anybody happens to know?)00:16
rwpIf it requires something from Github then that is probably on you to add as you are doing then.00:52
rwpSince something from a 3rd party on Github means that it has not made it into the Linux kernel main source.00:52
rwpAnd if it isn't there then I would not expect any software distribution to include it.00:52
rwpAlso the Linux kernel packages in Devuan are direct pass-through from Debian.  Not just identical but the actual same package.00:53
rwpDevuan is the same as Debian for the kernel and hardware support of this type.00:53
rwp(The Devuan installers are somewhat different however and have included needed firmware.)00:54
bblissOk. Seems likely then that Daedalus won't install on Intel MacBooks without a USB keyboard then :-(00:54
bbliss(I tried doing this with Beowulf, it would not boot, I tried Chimaera, it wouldn't boot, Daedalus is the first release that has a >5.7 kernel in the box that can even boot a MacBook.  I was assuming more people used Devuan on MacBooks, but apparently nobody does)00:56
bblisswell, T2 macbooks at least, I guess00:57
rwpbbliss, You might try installing a backports kernel in order to get a more recent kernel.02:20
rwpFor new hardware that needs the newest you might be better off using Unstable kernel bits.02:20
rwpThe kernel is pretty much separate from the userland and the two different parts of the OS can be different and that is okay.02:21
gnarfaceif raverhaver9000 comes back tell him i meant dkms sorry, that was a bad typo :(05:22
gnarfacesomeone should have double checked me on that05:22
gnarfacedpms has nothing to do with this05:23
gnarfaceman i hope they figure it out05:37
gnarfacenvidia's driver needs kernel headers and dkms, i feel like that should have been clear by context but i really messed up by saying dpms instead05:37
gnarfaceyou don't need dpms but you also shouldn't have to do anything to get it05:44
gnarfaceyou do need acpid for the power management to work right05:44
gnarface(but it still won't wake up completely correctly from sleep, some graphics or behaviors inevitably will get corrupted)05:45
gnarfaceyou might want colord because it can use it, but ... frankly i found the behavior to be annoying so i'd recommend against it05:45
golinuxgnarface: It happens.06:02
gnarfacegolinux: i blame aliens using mind control satellites to gaslight me06:18
JFaulkHow is everyone?15:07
nemogood morning15:42
nemognarface: oh. on subject of "/etc/init.d/rcS status" and that one app's rather careless scan. do you think it's worth a bugreport to devuan as well?15:43
nemoadding if [ "$1" = "status ];then echo "bad invocation";exit;fi  to all the servers does seem to have fixed things15:44
gnarfacenemo: it's a good question, if it's a package from the debian repos i think the policy would be to place the bug report with debian, and if it's not in devuan or debian's repos, i think the official default policy is "nobody cares" but in this case since it's related to something in /etc/init.d/ maybe ask fsmithered if he as a different opinion (my opinion on the matter isn't official)16:03
gnarfacenemo: the actual misbehavior is with a 3rd party .deb, am i right?16:04
gnarfaceif it's a 3rd party deb i think finding out what they decide to do is key... if they quickly accept blame and fix the behavior in their own tool that would be the easiest way out of this, the goal is to minimize the need to fork more packages in devuan16:06
gnarfaceobviously they will if necessary but we don't want to be piling on more repeating work unnecessarily16:06
gnarfaceactually it's not only about avoiding work, it's also about avoiding changing expected behavior if at all possible too16:11
nemognarface: it's not with a deb, it's with an "enterprise" scan tool16:16
nemognarface: the problem being, devuan is already on thin ice over here ☹16:16
nemoManageEngine Desktop Central Agent16:17
nemoI'm going to report it to ManageEngine - I don't count enormously on any success there, because, well I suspect they only barely care about non-systemd these days.16:19
nemothe problem with this script is it really is kinda sucky16:19
nemoit has no header information describing what it does16:19
nemoif you invoke it without params it does not give usage info16:19
nemoit's almost impossible to come up with a way to safely request status from non-systemd init.d which contains scripts like this16:19
nemotheir "list all contents and call status" is clearly problematic, but I'm hard pressed to find a way to do it otherwise aside from asking them to explicitly filter out rcS16:20
gnarfacewell they should really be calling status in /etc/rc?.d/ is the thing16:20
nemothat is a good point16:20
gnarfacewhere "?" is the current runlevel; that's what the symlinks are there for, they're calling status on scripts that might not even be in the current runlevel16:21
nemothanks. that's a stronger point to make16:21
gnarfaceif that fails and nobody here thinks it's a good idea to alter rcS for this one misbehaved use case, may i recommend forking the package yourself and keeping it in a custom repo?16:22
gnarfaceshouldn't be too hard for just that one change16:23
gnarfacercS is in sysv-rc which appears to be entirely plain text16:24
gnarfaceyou'd just need to repackage16:24
gnarfacebut the truth is they clearly didn't make sure they knew wtf they're doing when they created that behavior and didn't test it either, they're doing it wrong in a way that not only makes it harder on everyone else, it makes it harder on themselves16:26
nemognarface: I could, but they do have a lot of customers so it probably doesn't just impact me16:26
gnarfacehopefully they'll see reason16:26
nemoyeah. fingers crossed. I'm writing it up now16:26
gnarfaceheh, hopefully your diplomacy skills are better than mine...16:26
gnarfaceif they can't check the current runlevel (off the top of my head i forget exactly how to do it canonically too) then they can just hardcode it to "2" since it's probably always gonna be "2" on debian based systems16:28
nemothey tend to start out well, then degrade after being bounced to the nth representative16:28
nemoI made a crude sample of checking16:28
nemo/bin/ls /etc/rc$(/sbin/runlevel | /usr/bin/awk '{print $NF}').d/S* | while read f;do "$f" status;done16:28
gnarfaceah, you're a step ahead of me, clever16:29
gnarfacei would think that approach should work on just about anything still using sysvinit16:30
gnarfacenot sure but you might want to do it with cut instead of awk though because cut is in coreutils16:32
nemoheh. I use what I'm familiar with 😉16:33
nemoI don't know if their agent even uses scripts16:33
nemoit was more an example16:33
gnarface /sbin/runlevel |cut -d ' ' -f 216:34
gnarfaceto be honest i'm not sure which they'd actually prefer16:34
nemowell. we'll see what the agent says16:35
nemomy experience with 1st tier is they barely know how to follow the script16:35
nemomuch less read scripts ☺16:35
nemos/the script/their script/16:35
gnarfaceyou could check and see if $RUNLEVEL is defined in that context16:41
gnarfacethe man page for runlevel mentions it but i'm not seeing it in the user's environment16:42
gnarfaceactually maybe cut is safer16:42
gnarfaceshould work on older systems too16:42
nemothey seemed receptive. at least a ticket was filed16:46
nemothey tried to get logs but I dodged on "probably not allowed" which might or might not be true, but I really didn't want to go to the effort anyway. the problem was pretty obvious16:46
NrmlHowdy everyone. Trying to upgrade a really oldie (still Devuan Jessie), getting this error on `apt-get update`:20:45
NrmlE: Release file for is expired (invalid since 5d 19h 24min 9s). Updates for this repository will not be applied.20:45
NrmlHow do I work around it?20:45
rrqNrml: "jessie" is moved to archive.devuan.org21:09
rrqchange your sources.list to only:21:09
rrqdeb jessie main contrib non-free21:09
rrq(and same with "deb-src" if you need)21:10
Nrmlthanks rrq! comprehensive answer as always!21:13

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