libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2023-01-17

hakaruneso I'm installing urbackup and it's asking to convert root.01:42
hakaruneUrbackup Convert root device into device mapper device on boot (initramfs01:42
hakaruneshould I allow it?01:42
hakarunewill this break devuan if it converts out?01:43
gnarfacethat software isn't something from devuan repos, is it?01:43
gnarfacei couldn't say whether it's safe or not01:44
hakaruneno. it's its own installer script for the client interface.01:45
hakarunei know on debian it doesn't break anything, but I don't know if it would on devuan01:46
gnarfacei'm not sure what "device mapper device" means actually, so i couldn't say01:47
gnarfaceit should work as long as it's something that doesn't require systemd features01:47
martinlegerhello I'm trying to passthrough a usb device using aqemu in a virtual machine. My virtual machine (devuan) is working, has internet connection but I cannot connect my flash drive into the VM. I added the flash drive in aqemu before booting the VM but when I try to connect it, it just doesn't work. What am I doing wrong here ?05:45
martinlegerdoes anyone use aqemu ?06:18
gnarfacefirst i'm hearing of it, but from my experience with other such things i would recommend trying to get it working with just bare qemu from the command-line then maybe you can compare the command to what aqemu is using and figure out what it's doing wrong06:26
martinlegeryea I thought about it but I'm just not comfortable with cli in general. I just need something that works pretty much out of the box. and aqemu suits my needs but I just need to passthrough usb devices and that's it06:30
martinlegerI heard that virt-manager is nice too, I might try that later if I don't manage to make it work with aqemu06:30
martinlegerit's just that there is no information about aqemu on the web, seems like everyone is using qemu or virtualbox06:31
rrqadding the port with the media should be fine wrt the qemu args; you might also need proper permissions for the device node06:45
martinlegerI'll have too look into that. I think I'm gonna ditch aqemu. I'm not the only one facing this problem so I guess i have no choice but to learn bare qemu06:50
systemdleteI just ran lvextend to increase the size of one of my encrypted volumes.  It requested a password:  I've never seen that before.   Is this a new feature?   I'm pretty sure I've extended encrypted volumes previously on various systems.  I don't recall being prompted for a password ever before for any lvm volume.  I have a query out in the #lvm channel also.  It makes sense for it to ask, but I'm wondering why I don't recall06:52
systemdletethis happening in the past.06:52
martinlegeranother one here : i see now why I can't find answers to my problem, this software is abandoned06:53
systemdletewon too three for  (homophones are phun!)06:57
systemdletemartinleger, just a heads up:  I tried using virt-manager (vmm?) and I found it was broken also.  That was months ago, maybe they've fixed one or to things since then.07:00
systemdleteI hope your luck with it is better than mine.07:01
systemdleteiirc, it was not generating the correct calling sequence for qemu (that's mainly what it does, actually, generate calls to qemu).   Seems that qemu's command line options changed a bit but aqemu did not get an update for those changes.07:02
martinlegersystemdlete, ok thanks for the heads up i'm gonna tinker with it right now and let u know how things go07:13
martinlegeri like aqemu but i can install vms and have internet on them without having to launch a service with root privileges and it just works for the basic stuffs07:14
martinlegerunfortunately no shared folders working neither usb devices, its a shame that this software is not maintained anymore because i really like the simplicity of it but i wont going back on virtualbox though07:15
rrqI use plain qemu through bash script for editing arguments07:17
martinlegerhope you found answers to your lvm questions systemdlete07:17
systemdleteno, not yet07:18
martinlegerrrq, i'll have to learn that - i have no knowledge about qemu atm07:18
rrqclick the "Show QEMU Arguments" button and then you see how it's done07:18
rrqfor usb passthrough the user needs rw acces to the /dev/bus/xxx/yyy device node07:19
rrqa light touch up of the ude crules can get that to happen (via some group) on the plug event07:20
rrqude = udev and crules = rules07:21
martinlegerdoes I need to chmod 777 /dev/bus/myusbdevice with root ?07:21
rrqthat would work07:21
martinlegeryea i dont think it is safe to change permissions with root like that on file system07:21
rrq(though 666 is enough)07:21
martinlegerim not comfortable enough to do that07:22
martinlegeris it safe to do ?07:22
martinlegeri dont know07:22
rrqif you are lone on the system it should be fine; the node goes away when you unplug07:22
martinlegeroh ok07:22
martinlegerthanks I'll write down what you said07:23
martinlegerno way07:28
martinlegeri cant believe it07:28
martinlegerit just straight up works ! out of the box07:28
martinlegerit's even better than aqemu07:29
martinlegersystemdlete, just install virt-manager and its dependencies - it should work . at least for me it worked07:30
martinlegerthank you so much guys07:30
systemdletemartinleger, it was aqemu that was giving me problems, iirc07:32
systemdletebut this was many months ago07:32
martinlegerbut did you try virt-manager ?07:32
martinlegersounds is working out of the box07:32
systemdleteyes, I tried both and had little luck with either.07:32
martinlegeri can connect my usb flash drive as well07:32
martinlegertry it again man i swear it is working for me07:33
martinlegerand install of windows is so much faster too07:33
systemdletehmmm.  maybe I'll try that.07:33
systemdletebut atm, I am busy with something else.07:33
martinlegeri wasted 2 hours on aqem07:33
martinlegeraqemu - and spent 10 min on virt-manager07:33
systemdletei think I remember now.07:33
systemdletewhen virt-manager creates an interface, it creates a lot of extra stuff-- take a look at "ip l" and you will see what I mean.   If all I want is a simple, straightforward interface, I don't see what the need for a bridge and other devices really is.  That doesn't emulate a real environment too closely, imo.  But that is just window dressing for the most part.  If all that extra clutter doesn't bug you (and it probably doesn't)07:35
systemdletethen it's fine.07:35
systemdletebut I am fussy.  I like the minimum to implement virtualization, or anything else for that matter.07:36
systemdleteI asked the dev one time, years back, why they chose to do it that way.  He could not offer a good answer.  He thought there HAD to be a bridge for every interface, which is not true.  You can create a simple interface with qemu directly; I've done it.07:37
systemdletestraightfowardness is my middle name pretty much.   I am not pleased having to use VirtualBox, but it does work, FWIW.  It provides a very clean UI.  I've used it for decades and I've not really had serious problems, except for one time, one of their releases broke for EVERYONE.  They fixed it promptly.07:38
systemdleteThere are people here and elsewhere who hate on vbox constantly, but I'm happy enough with it.  The day that aqemu and/or virt-manager get cleaned up and working I will switch.07:39
systemdletebut this is getting OT and belongs in the offtopic channel already...07:40
systemdleteand, yes, like you I found aqemu to be a total waste of time.07:40
martinlegeroh ok i didn't know about the extra stuff on the interface, i must admit i havent checked upon that - i have a new interface virbr0: but thats it - i dont like having multiple stuffs if i only need one simple thing07:46
martinlegerim like u on that but i really need to get usb devices pass through on vms for work and i dont want to bother learning qemu cli at the moment, i dont have time for that - maybe later when i have time but linux in general is constant learning at least for me07:47
martinlegerwhich i still love but right now i dont have much time for that07:48
Havelock_Hello, looking for a init-script for ceph. Especially one with working support for ceph-volume.15:27
devusrim unclear about something. is devuan still using debian sources and forking each release in parallel or is it now 100% independent? not sure if im using the right terms15:29
debdogdevusr: the former15:29
devusrok thank you15:29
gnarfacedevusr: most the packages aren't even altered or rebuilt15:43
devusrgnarface: i thought that is what i understood too. I saw a few devuan presentations on youtube and wanted to clarify15:47
gnarfaceyes, the unaltered packages aren't even rehosted, the amprolla system feeds them through to you via http redirect to actual debian repos15:49
devusroh ok that is probably where my confusion came from15:49
gnarfacethe i386 and amd64 kernels are the literally identical packages from debian, so you shouldn't have any driver issues unique to devuan15:50
gnarface(the various arm images are for boards debian doesn't even support so those all have custom kernels and ymmv)15:50
devusri used linux for a very short time pre sysD. When i came back everything seemed weird and i kept hopping trying to figure out what i was missing from before. Once i learned about this sysD takeover, I found devuan and things felt sane again.16:06
gnarfaceit's a common story around here16:15
gnarfacethe primary issue people run into that's not related to actually missing systemd dependent software or features is just basic permissions; systemd grants the local console user free reign of all devices regardless of filesystem permissions (which is insecure but convenient if you never learned how to manage filesystem permissions)16:16
gnarfacemost issues that look like a driver issue turn out to actually be permissions16:17
gnarfacebut we also don't have many issues... funny how that happens when you stop aggressively rearranging shit every month16:17
devusris there an article or case study on if/how sysD is a cyber risk? i only find kinda surface level stuff and 'unix philosophy'16:34
devusri just wanted a more grounded argument besides it feels icky ha16:36
gnarfaceuh, not the first time this has come up but i'm not sure if there's a type of thing that really outlines how all their design decisions look like they're specifically paid for by organized crime16:38
debdogthere probably is no evidence of that, not more than for any other system relvant software. I think it's the situation. Esp. looking at the Debian philosophy, it's not about integrating sysd, it's about removing all the other options.16:38
gnarfaceit's sorta my fault we're off on this tangent though, this is offtopic and a better conversation for #devuan-offtopic16:39
gnarfacewe try to reserve this channel for actual support issues16:39
gnarfaceask in #devuan-offtopic, someone might have ... some links to something16:39
gnarfacethere certainly have been public mailing list posts about the vandalism of features16:40
gnarfaceand some editorial stuff16:40
gnarfacei just don't have the links off the top of my head16:40
devusrok appreciate it, thanks for your time again16:41
debdogand if all the other options are removed, there is one commong thing (except for the kernel) which ALL distros haven in common. that is, I think, a thread. you only have to implement one backdoor or what ever to gat them all.16:42
debdogand according to Linus, admittedly some years ago, there is no foul play in the kernel.16:44
forsolis devuan completely opensource?23:36
gnarfacewell it has the same non-free packages debian does, but you don't need any of them23:37
gnarfaceis that what you meant?23:37
forsolnon-free preinstalled?23:38
gnarfacenothing is pre-installed that you don't ask for23:38
forsoland is there a iso-snapshot-devuan o rdebian version for respinnig it?23:39
gnarfacethe installer does have the non-free wifi available in case you need it23:40
gnarfacethere is a live image if you want, it also does have the non-free stuff afaik23:40
gnarfacethe live image does NOT have the same ability to pick what you install though23:40
gnarfaceif you want to avoid non-free stuff you should probably not use the live image23:40
gnarfaceor do you mean like a way to make your own installer?23:42
gnarfacecheck out refracta tools for that23:42
gnarfacethere is also for the official build scripots23:42
gnarfacesorry, not sure which you're asking for23:42
forsolIm looking to get a minimal debian systemd version, so I thought I could install devuan, strip it, and then make an iso from that to save it and install in my machines23:44
gnarfaceyea, that sounds like something you want to use refracta tools for23:45
gnarfacerefracta-snapshot, refracta-installer, something like that, not sure which23:45
gnarfacecheck out the refracta tools23:45
gnarfacethey are maintained by fsmithred, one of the devuan maintainers23:45
forsolis there an OS caled refract also?23:45
gnarfaceyes, that's also what the live images are based on23:46
gnarfaceit's part of devuan now23:46
forsolin devuan, the default repo is all free?23:47
gnarfacejust like debian, it has main, contrib, and non-free23:47
gnarfaceeverything is just like debian was before systemd23:47
gnarfacewell, mostly anyway23:47
gnarfacethat part is the same23:47
cytokine_stormmy wlan0 got renamed to wlan123:47
gnarfaceoh, not on purpose you mean23:48
forsolthanks gnarface23:48
cytokine_stormafter last update23:48
gnarfacenp forsol23:48
cytokine_stormwhat files should i check23:49
gnarfacecytokine_storm: check in /etc/udev/rules.d/50-persistant-net.rules or something like that23:49
gnarfaceusually this happens if you change devices23:49
gnarfaceor if you change mac addresses or something that makes it think you changed devices anyway23:49
gnarfacerun this: ls -l /etc/init.d/rules.d/*persistent-net*23:53
forsollast iso is from Oct 2019, is that right?23:54
gnarfacelatest stable might be, not sure... you looking in
gnarfaceno i'm seeing oct 2021 actually23:55
gnarfaceif you want stable, get it from here23:56
cytokine_stormkernel : [    3.137021] iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3 wlan1: renamed from wlan023:56
cytokine_stormthis is what i got in kernel message23:56
cytokine_stormwhere should i proceed now please23:57
forsolis that link official?23:57
gnarfaceyea i think that is an official mirror but ascii is pre-old stable23:58
gnarfaceyou want chimaera for current stable23:58
gnarfacecytokine_storm: did you run ls -l /etc/udev/rules.d/*persistent-net* like i said?23:59

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