libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2023-01-22

sgageHelenah: I agree. I believe it is a fashion thing. More and more GUI elements are00:01
sgagedriven by fashion and not utility or ergonomics. It has to look cool, and 'fresh'00:01
sgageand 'modern'. Gah!00:01
Helenahsgage: Yeah00:02
sgageI blame Apple ;)00:04
onefangAs with all things fashion, wait a decade, the good stuff will come back.  For a few years.00:16
Helenahonefang: I'm not sure if functionality should be blighted with "fashion of the time".01:32
onefangHelenah: No it shouldn't be, but that never stops them.02:31
Helenahonefang: True.02:32
brocashelmis there a way to get mesa 22.3 on chimaera yet?03:14
brocashelmsince the packages haven't been backported from testing, and the libc6 requirements prevent the upgrade03:15
gnarfaceprobably not then, unless you want to run it in a chroot or something03:20
brocashelmwhat if you added daedalus repo, ran update, specifically installed one of the mesa packages, and then removed it and stayed at chimaera?03:56
brocashelmi know other packages like libc6 and locales would be updated, but maybe not the whole system? i haven't tried this myself, though03:57
brocashelmthis is just to get mesa to 22.3, unless maybe compile from source?03:57
NeverAloneBad idea.03:57
gnarfacei mean, it'll usually work but what happens is you're mismatching runtime dependencies and compile-time dependencies, the usual results is gremlins and mystery crashes03:58
NeverAloneYou do not want to mix Devuan Chimaera and Daedalus repos03:58
NeverAloneSame applies to Debian Stable and Testing03:58
NeverAloneYou will get a frankendevuan system03:58
gnarfaceyea, worst-case scenario some minor change to the format of the dependency tree causes a package dependency corruption that unravels your whole system the next time you try to update03:59
brocashelmso, the only safe way to do it is to compile?03:59
gnarfaceyea, you back port it yourself but... eh... with the libc6 dependency involved you'll have to recursively backport most the system04:00
gnarfaceby that time you might as well have just upgraded to testing04:00
NeverAloneWell why you need mesa 22.3?04:00
brocashelmnot for me, but for someone needing it for a game to run04:00
brocashelmhe's on chimaera04:00
NeverAloneWelp they would've to backport it or compile it04:00
gnarfacei'd honestly recommend just trying a barebones daedalus chroot and running the game from in there04:00
NeverAloneWorth a shot04:01
gnarfaceunless it also needs something from a newer kernel it should work04:01
gnarfaceand if it doesn't work all you've wasted is the time04:01
gnarfaceyou can just delete the chroot, no threat to the parent system04:02
brocashelmi'm siding with switching to daedalus, since it's in freeze now and will stabilize soon04:02
gnarfaceit does seem like a reasonable time to do it based on that, however just for one game?04:02
gnarfaceit'd better be a damned good game04:02
NeverAloneI'm not on Devuan because, I actually don't know why lol04:03
NeverAloneNo reason04:03
brocashelmi've been using ceres this whole time, but i've actually just switched to daedalus and all other repos pointing to debian 11 or testing04:03
brocashelmtoo lazy to reinstall beowulf or chimaera and redo all my configs04:04
brocashelmplus, with reinstalling all of my packages (some would be deprecated/unavailable)04:04
onefangMaybe try a dist upgrade instead?04:05
onefangThough that's why I do a debootstrap and script installing my packages.04:05
brocashelmwhat do you think of something like this?
gnarfaceinstalling them from another distro?!04:16
gnarfacehell no04:16
gnarfacethat's even worse04:16
gnarfaceagain, it's one of those things that'll probably work initially but is likely to cause problems later04:17
brocashelmand turns out it's multiple games, plus all proton games not working/crashing04:17
gnarfacethe type of mess you can' tclean up04:17
gnarfacecan't clean up04:17
rrqyou could set up a chroot target as an overlayfs, instead of installing04:17
NeverAloneOr just switch to testing which will stabilize soon04:18
brocashelm^ i agree with this04:18
golinuxWhat about backports?04:30
brocashelmthere are no adequate mesa backports for chimaera (needs to be higher than 22)04:31
brocashelmquickest/easiest option would be to use testing04:32
brocashelmbut the point is to remain in stable so packages remain the same04:33
fluffywolfreset: annoying scroll bar stupidity, I'm using 102.6.0esr05:03
fluffywolfgrr, stupid auto nick completion.  lol.  that should be re:, of course.05:03
gnarfaceoh interesting, i just realized i'm getting the full scrollbar disappearance on the main window scrollbar too, it's just that slashdot's page layout has a grey border there the same width as the old scrollbar used to be so i thought the scrollbar was still present05:09
fluffywolfthere's an option in settings to always show scrollbars, but it seems bugged05:10
fluffywolfyou might try it05:10
fluffywolfit worked for me...  eventually.  it causes pages to go out to lunch for a while, at least here, then work normally with scrollbars.05:11
fluffywolf(like 20 seconds of unresponsive UI)05:11
fluffywolfalso, slashdot still exists?  lol05:16
xrogaanwhat is the name of the next point release?17:48
xrogaanafter chimaera?17:48
Quo-fandaedalus most likely17:50
Quo-fandaedalus isnt finished yet tho17:50
Quo-fanstill a so called sid version17:51
xrogaanIt's testing. Should be stable enough. I'm just concerned about this whole usrmerge nonsense and other debianiazeries17:54
xrogaanissue with debian stable styled release is how old utilities like mesa3d are.17:55
rwpThe UsrMerge is a different problem from systemd and most of us have given up trying to fight it.17:56
rwpSo basically the strategy of the standalone / has moved to become the initramfs and everything else is /usr now.17:57
xrogaansure, but there's still the debian people arguing about how to proceed. Which is painful.17:59
xrogaanIMHO It's not something worth fighting over beyond how stupid the move is.18:00
golinux<rwp> deadulus18:31
golinuxIs this some kind of joke?18:31
rwpNo.  It's me with a slow network causing delay and spelling errors.18:38
rwpI hadn't seen Quo-fan's response at the time I had entered my spelling error.  Then eventually it popped out.18:39
rwpA combination of problems including a sync delay of using znc as an irc bouncer.  It can take a couple of minutes to sync at a restart.18:40
Quo-fanrwp: if u use a shared znc it might take even more time18:40
Quo-faneven 10-15 min18:40
rwpIt's just me on my own znc but I am in many channels and if I restart then it can take quite some minutes for znc to sync up. :-(18:41
rwpAfter it gets spun up then everything happens in real time again okay.  It's really only a problem for me immediately upon restart.18:41
Quo-fanokay noted18:42
rwpI should try one of the other irc bouncers such as bip or one of the others.  See if it has the same behavior or not.18:43
Quo-fanrwp: sbnc psybnc and ezbounce do connection throttling too18:51
Quo-fanu cant avoid it when using irc bouncers18:51
golinuxWhich is a bit OT for this channel . . .18:51
Quo-fanyeah ok18:52
rwpI would have moved to #devuan-offtopic except I know that Quo-fan is only here not there. :-)18:56
Quo-fanthen its best i disappear from here18:57
Quo-fannuff said18:57
HelenahDon't worry I looked for an ops channel before saying this and I couldn't find one. I wanted to suggest to joerg and anyone else in charged here about a quasi-social model. You see, it's healthier on your community if in the main channel they can get to know each other better and talk not just about the distro. An example is during times like this when it's quiet, where is wrong with two people19:11
Helenahhaving a bit of off-topic chat?19:11
HelenahI would like to see my suggestion taken on board and discussed even if it's not implemented, some feedback would be nice on the result too.19:13
HelenahAlso, it's a lot of effort and redundantly too on the ops to always and no exceptions redirect people to #devuan-offtopic such as times when there is no on-topic discussion going on, when there is no real activity. It's also nicer for the people to not be pulled up on their every single move you see as wrong with no exceptions. I use your distribution, I'm an op in #linux-offtopic, I get the see19:17
Helenahthe ops conversations, I can see how #linux is run, I can see their quasi-social model does wonders for the community.19:17
HelenahDuring times when you have a lot of on-topic chatter, a lot of support questions being asked, a lot of people responding to their support questions, a lot of things being pushed into the scrollback then you redirect off-topic discussions to #devuan-offtopic. I'm not telling you how to run the channel, I'm not bossing you around but I'm giving you advice about a working model that I think would19:20
Helenahbenefit this community and others.19:20
golinuxHelenah: One reason to not allow OT here is because this and a few other channels are logged so folks can find solutions to their issues19:37
golinuxIt also makes the scrollback more tedious when trying to find something relevant.19:38
golinuxAnd OT chatter often pushes something I want to find past the cache size I have set which forces me to go to one of the online loggers which is a bit of an inconvenience19:39
Helenahgolinux: The log thing never came to mind but it is valid.19:40
Helenahgolinux: gnarface resorted to respond to me in #devuan-offtopic, does that mean this is best there or was that just their choice?19:41
HelenahPersonally I see this on-topic as it's to do with the channel.19:41
golinuxIn the header of this channel is says: "take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic"19:42
golinuxPlease continue your quest there . . .19:42
ham5urgI've tried to install (a Twitter clone), but I have a dep.-problem: "" . A "apt search librest" shows a version "librest-1.0-0/testing,now 0.9.1-4 amd64 [installed,automatic]". Is this dep.-missmatch resolvable? At least the installed librest21:16
ham5urgversion is higher as the requested one.21:16
gnarfaceit's a package not available in devuan?21:24
gnarfaceyou might need to rebuild it21:24
ham5urgYes, it's not available in Devuan. Neither in Debian.21:26
gnarfacewell, there's probably a good reason, but you can try to rebuild the package to fix the dependency mismatch; it's done by a fairly dumb string comparison so if they just named the dependency package differently it wouldn't match21:30
ham5urgI've changed the librest version in and did a "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -D -us -uc" but got a ton of "Soup"-errors. It's quite an output and I guess it is not worth the try
gnarfacei couldn't say for sure, but it's certainly possible that just too much is different about the librest version they use... have you tried building it too?21:50
rrqlooks like ABI competition between libsoup-2.4.vapi and libsoup-3.0.vapi21:51
rrqno idea ho to resolve :) maybe there's a place to make a choice?21:57
ham5urgI changed the libsoup version to 3.0 in, now I get a lot of "error: The type name `Rest.OAuthProxy' could not be found" :
rrqOAuthProxy appear documented in librest-doc .. does it need a -dev version installed?22:04
ham5urgI did an "apt build-dep cawbird" and "librest-dev/testing,now 0.9.1-4 amd64  [installiert]" is installed.22:09
rrqperhaps librest-extras-dev ?22:10
ham5urgSame error, mmh22:11
ham5urgSome lines from the file:
rrqright; depends on rest-1.0 where oauth-proxy.h is under 0.7 (I have chimaera though.. and is not in the middle of building :)22:21
ham5urgI edited and added 1.0 as it is the only one on testing. I use testing in this case.22:22
rrqthere's /usr/include/rest-1.0/rest/rest-oauth2-proxy.h though22:23
rrqperhaps a naming issue on the "include" line(s)22:24
rrq(due to version diff)22:24
ham5urgdid a grep -R include but a ton of output22:26
rrqOAuthProxy is only in /usr/include/rest-0.7/rest/oauth-proxy.h22:26
ham5urgAny filename in /usr/include/rest-1.0/rest/ starts with rest-*22:28
ham5urgWill a simple string change do the job?22:31
rrqpossibly .. or onto an interesting landscape of all sorts of problems :)22:32
rrqit appears the 1-0 variant preferes the name OAuth2Proxy22:33
rrqor even RestOAuth2Proxy22:34
ham5urgI've changed src/CbUserStream.c:#include <rest/rest-oauth2-proxy.h> and src/CbUserStream.h:#include <rest/rest-oauth2-proxy.h>22:34
ham5urgTo what shall I change "Rest.OAuthProxy"?22:35
ham5urgI try Rest.OAuth2Proxy22:35
rrqmight need OAuth2Proxy => RestOAuth2Proxy ... and then hope for no other ABI changes22:35
ham5urgTo many errors, I guess a newer version of cawbird is needed.
rrqmmm, Rest.OAuth2Proxy should be Rest.RestOAuth2Proxy shouldn't it?22:44
ham5urgOk, I try again22:45
ham5urgThe type name `Rest.RestOAuth2Proxy' could not be found22:45
ham5urgThey have hard to reach dependencies:
ham5urglibrest-0.7 is fixated22:46
ham5urgTesting is too new22:46
rrqright. time for a different quest I suppose :)22:47
ham5urgThere should be a law: Never break the ABI...22:56

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