libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2023-01-24

brocashelmif i plan on using daedalus (when it's stable) and i am on ceres, what would be the latest time to switch over?00:53
brocashelmso i get the benefit of continued updates (ceres during freeze) while being able to go stable henceforth00:53
gnarfacei assume that window of opportunity has already passed but i'd be curious to hear a more informed opinion01:04
fsmithredyou could wait for months or even years if you stop doing updates now. Then update when you change sources.list to daedalus. You'll get some newer packages.01:05
fsmithredI suppose whenever full freeze happens is the latest you can do it and keep updated before daedalus goes stable.01:06
brocashelmthis reddit comment gave me the idea:
brocashelmit's just a matter of timing01:09
brocashelmi know a reinstall is quicker and more convenient, but the problem is getting all my packages and configs back (very time-consuming to ensure which packages got removed/renamed for stable)01:10
brocashelmi was told it might be safe to restore my /etc folder data (just change things like sources.list, fstab, and grub)01:11
fsmithredI've done an upgrade from testing to stable in the past. It worked fine because at that point, stable had newer packages than my installed testing.01:15
onefangIf you use deadulus in your sources, then when it becomes stable, you'll be on stable.01:16
fsmithredyeah, that's easier.01:16
brocashelmthat is the approach i am taking, using daedalus in place of ceres01:18
brocashelmsince they are still 1:101:18
fsmithredadd daedalus and pin ceres lower so you can still get updates early if you want them.01:20
brocashelmi'm anticipating a june or july release of bookworm, so i might still have enough time to cheat my way through01:20
fsmithredwatch for the final freeze date01:20
brocashelmwhat should i use for their pin values?01:20
brocashelmceres would be 100, daedalus would be 500?01:21
fsmithred yeah01:21
fsmithredyou don't need to set the pin priority for daedalus, just ceres01:21
brocashelmah, i see01:21
fsmithredexample in pm01:22
fsmithredthen 'apt -t ceres install <package>' if you want it.01:23
brocashelmperfect, thanks01:24
brocashelmi'll go with 5001:25
bb|hcbbrocashelm: That will work, but in case you install some package with an RC bug, that would prevent the package to enter daedalus, hence your install would be a little ahead. This may or may not work, and in case it happens you have to fix it manually01:40
brocashelmbb|hcb: true, although it would be a lot better than just manually downgrading each and every installed package (had my rodeo with that recently and had to restore from backup)01:55
gnstaxoI'm mounting an Android device with "gio mount", it gets mounted but there is no folder at /run/<...>. And I can even get files and list directories with gio list and copy. Where is the actual cd-able folder?02:43
gnstaxoI've already tried searching using "find"02:43
bb|hcbbrocashelm: Yes, the list is expected to be very short or nil :)03:22
systemdleteHas anyone encountered problems with the latest kernel update (stock chimaera linux kernel from repos, etc)12:02
systemdleteIOW, I updated the kernel from the repos and booted it.  After several minutes, the mouse stopped working.  I rebooted again into same kernel, and same problem after several minutes.12:03
systemdleteBooted back into the previous kernel and it SEEMS to be working Ok again.12:03
systemdleteby newest, I am referring to vmlinuz-5.10.0-21-amd64; previous means vmlinuz-5.10.0-20-amd6412:04
systemdletewhen I say the mouse stopped working, I mean, I could not click on anything or get a menu, etc.  The mouse pointer still worked OK though.12:04
systemdleteI even tried a different mouse while in the 5.10.0-21 kernel and that one didn't work any better.  Using the original mouse back in the previous kernel works.12:05
systemdlete(again, SEEMS to be working.  So far haven't noticed a problem.)12:05
systemdleteI was able to use the keyboard to move around, of course.  Only the mouse seemed to be affected.12:06
systemdleteOne reason someone here might NOT run into this is if they are NOT using a kernel-video-mouse switch like I do.12:12
systemdleteI suppose that could play a role.12:12
rrqdoes the mouse have a battery?12:16
onefangI had a similar problem today.12:34
onefangUsing chimeara backports kernel.  Switched my KVM to one of my other computers, when I switched back I could move the mouse, but not click on anything, and keyboard didn't work either.  So I had to reset my computer.12:35
onefang6.0.0-0.deb11.6-rt-amd64 kernel.12:36
brocashelmi haven't had any mouse clicking problems, and i'm already on 6.1 (ceres kernel)12:37
onefangEverything is wired here, I hate using things with batteries.12:37
brocashelmi got a logitech wireless keyboard and mouse, also on a ceres machine, with no issues there12:37
systemdleterrq: This is a wireless mouse, of course.12:46
systemdletebrocashelm, are your keyboard, video and mouse connected to a KVMS switch?12:47
onefangActually, mines only keyboard and mouse switch.  Power supply died on my 4 way KVM switch, I replaced it with a cheaper 2 way KM switch.  Don't think it matters for this problem, the V worked fine.12:48
onefangWould have just replaced the power supply, but it's an odd voltage.12:49
systemdletethank you for feedback onefang.  You and I both have similar issue from sounds of it, but brocashelm does not, which is why I am querying them to find out if they have a switch12:55
u-amarsh04waiting on Debian but #1029534 in libreoffice-common to be fixed14:45
blizzowI'm on a fairly new lenovo X1 extreme (5th gen) with all the bells and whistles of an Nvidia Optimus setup. I installed Pop-OS on it because optimus is a f*cking nightmare.15:38
blizzowEven Pop-OS cannot make this laptop enter suspend mode and I'm entertaining moving back to devuan. Does anyone have suggestions on how I can have this thing running well immediately?15:39
rwpblizzow, No answers about suspend to ram but perhaps a brainstorm...  Have you tried hibernate to disk?  Does that work?18:43
blizzowI haven't. At this point, I'm just trying to get an idea of how hard it will be to move to devuan and get good nvidia optimus support.18:44
rwpFor suspend problems it is more often than not the video drivers.  You mentioned nVidia...18:44
rwpAre you using the in kernel free software nouveau driver?  Or the proprietary nVidia driver?18:44
rwpI personally was forced to move away from nVidia about a year ago in Unstable due to instability of the drivers. :-(18:45
fluffywolf95% of my suspend problems have been usb related.  I still can't suspend this laptop due to usb crashes.18:45
rwpYears ago on an HP laptop I could not get the PM code to suspend and switched to the then called suspend2 kernel patches, now called Tux-on-Ice kernel patches.18:46
rwpThose worked very well and should have been merged into the kernel main a decade ago!  It's only because of personality problems that it has not been.18:47
blizzowrwp, proprietary nvidia.  fluffywolf, USB has not exactly been stable/ideal on this box.18:50
rwpI haven't run the proprietary driver myself for a decade but almost everyone who is here asking for help is using it so...18:54
debdogblizzow: I am not an expert on optimus and there are AFAIK at least two options on how manufacturers tie the nvidia GPU to the system. but I remember what helped me makeing it work on my laptop:
debdogplus the one page linked there:
systemdletehow can I set an environment variable for the desktop on a refracta system if I am using autologin?22:21
systemdleteI tried setting it in /etc/profile.d/ and in /etc/environment.d/myfile.conf but no luck.22:22
systemdleteautologin seems to be bypassing the user's .bashrc and these other files, at leasst on my refracta system22:23
systemdletenot sure what is the cause of this.22:23
systemdletelooks like lxdm is the desktop mangler22:24
rwpThe normal way would be ~/.xsessionrc file.  (Which uses /bin/sh syntax not /bin/bash or other.  It's sourced from a /bin/sh script.)22:31
rwpRemember that X is not bash. The /etc/X11/Xsession is a POSIX /bin/sh program.22:33
systemdleterwp: thanks, I'll try that.22:39
systemdleteoddly enough, that is already set!  I think.  Does the variable need to be exported?22:40
systemdleteI typed in X=abc like that.  Do I need keywords like "set" or something for the syntax?22:41
systemdleteor maybe it is looking in Xsession.d ?   This is autologin, so maybe it skips the user's config?22:43
systemdleteI've tried adding a script to the /etc/X11/Xsession.d directory, no help.22:48
systemdleteI had also tried adding the variable to the /etc/security/pam_conf file, also no luck with that22:48
systemdletec'mon, how hard can this be?  LOL22:48
systemdletemaybe in the grub.cfg?22:49
* systemdlete is grasping at straws now22:49
fsmithredlooking at my env variables, I'd say that different things get set in different places22:51
fsmithredsome in .bashrc, some are from xdg, some from gtk3-nooverlayscrollbar22:52
systemdletelxdm even has its own environment file.  I tried setting it there, and also, no luck.22:53
fsmithredsome dbus22:53
fsmithredif it would work better with lightdm, you could switch to that pretty easily22:54
fsmithredbut be aware that it might change the way you use suspend22:54
systemdleteit's just that lxdm had installed so nicely22:54
systemdleteI don't use suspend--this is a desktop, so I only have the screensaver running22:54
fsmithredyou built up this system yourself or this is the lxdm that came with Refracta?22:55
systemdletestock refracta22:55
systemdleteI've made some mods of course, but nothing I think too structural overall22:55
fsmithredthe vars I mentioned in .bashrc are ones that I added (EMAIL and DEBMAIL)22:55
rwpYou didn't say what variable you wanted exported into the environment but if you want it exported then yes you need to export it.22:56
systemdletefsmithred, are you using lxdm22:56
systemdleterwp:  Are you saying that setting the variable in these files is not enough to export it?22:56
systemdletefsmithred, are you using autologin?22:57
rwp"FOO=3" no, local shell variable only, not exported.  "export BAR=37" yes, exported into the environment.22:57
systemdleterwp: Does sh support that syntax?22:57
systemdletewhich file are you referring to?22:57
fsmithredno auto22:58
systemdleteok, it's been years since I did basic sh programming.22:58
systemdleteI've always used bash (rarely) or perl (most commonly)22:59
rwpThe Bourne shell only supports "FOO=37; export FOO;" but sometime in the early naughties (sometime a while ago anyway) /bin/sh picked up "export VAR=value".22:59
systemdleterwp: ok, thanks.22:59
systemdletewhich file do you recommend me doing the export?22:59
rwpWhat variable are you trying to set?23:00
systemdleteI've tried half a dozen, and I think some of them are just name=value pairs23:00
systemdleteany variable, actually23:00
systemdletewhatever it would take to get any arbitrary variable into the desktop environment23:00
rwpYou don't have your terminal set up to create login shells do you?  If so then that will initialize them to a clear environment then load the login environment files.23:00
systemdlete(as opposed to a shell launched from desktop)23:01
fsmithredmine are in .bashrc23:01
systemdletefsmithred, that won't work for an autologin necessarily, will it?23:01
fsmithredwhy not?23:01
rwpThe difference between the "Desktop Environment" and the command line shell environment can be confusing.23:02
systemdleteso far, autologin seems to be bypassing all these environment files23:02
rwpSince bash will load ~/.bashrc but clicking on an icon won't have bash involved anywhere and won't see any ~/.bashrc file.23:02
systemdleteso maybe just a .rc file (or whatever /bin/sh calls it)23:02
rwpThe /bin/sh has no environment files.  (Which isn't quite true but let's just go with it for now.)23:03
systemdletethis is not for a desktop icon in this case23:03
systemdletealthough it could be for a file that is ultimately called by an icon file's Exec command23:03
rwpIf it eventually will be used in a .freedesktop Exec line then it can't have anything from a ~/.bashrc file because that will never be seen there.23:04
rwpDo we have to start from the beginning?  I guess so...23:06
rwpIn the beginning is init, which spawns an xdm such as lxdm, which spawns xfce4-session (or lxdm session), which runs /etc/X11/Xsession, which sources $HOME/.xsessionrc, and then the user may click on something.23:06
rwpIf the user starts a terminal which loads bash then bash sources the ~/.bashrc file23:06
rwpAt that point it should be seen that the ~/.bashrc file is not sourced in the path to X's session, window manager, .freedesktop Exec lines.23:07
rwpTo verify this trace through the /etc/X11/Xsession script program.23:08
systemdletethank you for that review, rwp.  There are also other pieces of the puzzle like /etc/Xssession.d and the XTG files, but I get the overall picture.23:21
systemdleteand don't forget pam and /etc/environment also23:21
systemdletefsmithred, lightdm+xfce is a safe combo, right?23:32
brocashelmif you ask me, startx is the best23:40
brocashelmlightdm, sddm, slim, and lxdm have been problematic to me23:40
brocashelmlxdm the least23:40
fsmithredlightdm is the dm that xfce usually is paired with23:46
fsmithredsorry, in a meeting now. bbl.23:46

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