libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2023-05-19

rrqmight be due to changes in the partman packages collective00:06
fsmithredsorry, I'm reading old discussion about this00:06
fsmithredMay 03 16:04:30 <fsmithred>     well, it's some other problem because that package is in the iso.00:07
rrqmmm but doesn't get into the initrd libs00:08
rrqnot sure why00:08
rrqat that last point, you may use ctrl-alt-f4 to view the tail of /var/log/syslog ... and see it complain about libgcc_s.so00:12
fsmithredamd64 or i386?00:13
AhmedNabilwhen i use ctrl+alt+f4 didnt show me any logo00:15
fsmithredn4dir said encrypted lvm install worked with i386 netinstall iso and I tested amd64 and got the error.00:15
fsmithredit should drop you to a root console00:15
fsmithredtail /var/log/syslog00:15
fsmithred^^^ do that after ctrl+alt+f400:16
rrqhmm the package is in the pool but the library doesn't get installed00:17
AhmedNabilno its look like i chose go back00:18
fsmithredat the bottom of that menu should be an option to open a shell00:19
AhmedNabilIm open syslog now can you tell me what i search on it00:23
fsmithredI found my May 3 install, and it doesn't boot.00:25
rrqthanks; the cause is that isn't available in the installer, which it needs to be.00:31
rrq( ... not sure why00:32
fsmithredI booted a live-iso with my encrypted VM attached, and I can't open the encrypted volume manually. It says 'no usable keyslot available'00:32
gnarfacedid someone just sneakernet into the installer and that's how they got it working last time? i could of sworn there was a resolution but maybe i just dreamed it00:33
fsmithredn4dir said he did a successful encrypted lvm install00:33
fsmithredsaid he didn't do anything special, took the automatic partitioning00:34
fsmithredI need a break. bbl.00:35
AhmedNabilI will search for old iso and see what will happen00:36
rrqmight be a different path ... presumably "partman-auto" pulls in libgcc_s100:36
AhmedNabilwhere i can found devuan old iso file00:40
fsmithredIf you can use network to install most of the packages, you could do a minimal install with a chimaera iso and then upgrade to daedalus and then add the desktop or whatever else you want.00:43
AhmedNabili will try it00:44
AhmedNabilthank you for your help and patience ☺️00:44
fsmithreddo we need to test a bookworm iso?00:44
fsmithredgood luck00:44
rrq(yes, a simple: ar of the deb from the pool then xzcat and tar gets it installed into the installer; and then it's happy)00:58
rrqnot sure how long that installation path has been a problem; chimaera ISO is fine01:00
fsmithredI have a Feb 11 encrypted lvm daedalus that was installed on Feb 1101:17
fsmithredthat's what happens when I take five minutes to write one sentence01:18
Xenguy"Lefthand, meet Righthand, Righthand, Lefthand"01:22
AhmedNabilI'm download devuan_chimaera netinstall iso and the encryption successful01:25
rrqthanks. good.01:29
AhmedNabilThat's mean the encryption problem just with new iso01:32
AhmedNabilthere's another error but I forget to take photo for it01:40
AhmedNabilthe error when choosing to using network mirror it's failing for edit01:40
AhmedNabiland can't upgrade in install progress saying can't access deb.devuan.org01:40
fsmithredAhmedNabil, yes, I think an iso from January or Febuary worked for me. I have an install from then.01:40
rrq:) unless you can off that ISO it won't be much help for AhmedNabil01:51
rrq(btw looks like that dependency is not added to libc6-udeb)02:01
rrq(so the historically normal way to build the installer is out; I'll see if it'll work with a magic-touch)02:02
fsmithredrrq, need me to check anything in the debian iso to see what's different? I just did an encrypted lvm install.02:21
rrqwell' maybe just verify that the installer itself has /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
rrq(i.e. in the initrd; or with c-a-f2 on the first dialog)02:25
fsmithred /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ is not present in the installer environment. I'll check again when it's finished loading installer componenets.03:01
fsmithred nope. not there.03:02
rrqhmm; but AhmedNabil's partitioning option worked?03:10
rrqmmm some slightly different ISO build magic was required... not too weird I think04:36
rrq.. actually a cleanup of the ISO build procedure!04:49
boxemallhi there jsut stumbled over devuan. was looking for a minimal distro with a low memory footprint to get this old eeepc of mine (1GB) back to life (just as a logger) and the plan is to use it "headless" (as in no gfx UI aka Desktop). how much does it differ from original Debian (which has sadly ceased 32bit support) in terms of usage? i'm not that debian savvy in so that i hope i can use with what i already know about07:42
debdogboxemall: except for the init system and some relted packages devuan is very close to debian07:46
debdogwhat do you mean "ceased 32bit support", generally or for some specific hardware?07:47
debdogfor elderly hardware and minor tasks installing an older debian or devuan version might do the trick07:48
boxemallsnds good. so a server install iso would prolly suffice for my needs since i don't need a desktop and related apps. well am i wrong in that debian went on to 64bit? not sure here but last time i looked i could not find a 32bit iso. the cpu i have is 64bit capable but it's a poor atom processor and the device has a whole 1gb of ram so i want to preserve every littel bit of ram i can. and 32 always a bit less taxing on the07:50
boxemallhardware side. correct me if i'm wrong.07:50
boxemallofc i'm talking latest debian release. was that bulleye iirc?07:50
debdogIDK I don't monitor what's happening. but abondoning i386 would be a major step and I think I would have heard about it07:53
debdogBullseye, affirmative. but just for a couple of weeks more, they are about to do a release07:55
boxemalli must've gotten it wrong then. i prolly mixed up the move on to systemd with architecture. tx for clearing that up. i was just on the lookout for something light and debian (so i went for this when i heard about it) is well know and documented and i can find lots of help in the community if the need be. devuan being close to debian would make things even better in that regard i guess07:59
debdogwell, I wouldn't be surprised, somehow08:02
debdoglooking at makes me think "wow, they went mainstream"08:02
boxemallthe devuan minimal live image has a GUI?08:08
debdogdunno about live. I'd use the installer in expert mode and would go easy on the tasks08:11
debdogboxemall: the installer on the live images is
debdogmaybe you find the answer about GUI or not there. or wait for fsmithred to show up. he knows08:17
boxemalldownloading just now. will try the live minimal and see how it goes. sadly the mirror i pcked is kinda slow lol08:17
debdogeven if the live iso starts with a GUI it might be possible to install it without, IDK. have success!08:19
boxemallthe main prob i always have is to paste my wifi key. u can't use the nano clipboard for e.g., outside of nano. so whenever i want to login to my wifi network. and they key is at max lenght for sec reasons.08:21
boxemallhow much ram would i need during install when std-toram is selected (squashfs to ram)08:37
boxemalli'm being asked where to install grub. i want it on a 512mb fat32 (LBA) partition but it won't let me select it saying "is not a block device". can i only select the whole disk or can i specify a partition?08:54
boxemalloh nvm seems i had a typo08:55
blottomanDaedalus is the bleeding edge version, right?16:03
fsmithreddaedalus is pretty close to being released as stable16:09
fsmithredcurrently in testing16:09
blottomanfsmithred, is there something more bleeding edge than daedalus?16:09
fsmithredceres=sid=unstable but right now daedalus is almost identical to ceres16:10
fsmithredi.e. most work now is on finishing the next release. Debian will release Bookworm in a few weeks and we will follow soon after with daedalus.16:10
fsmithredafter that, work will focus on ceres again16:11
blottomanI thought releases were going in alphabetical order? ASCII -> Beowulf -> Ceres -> Daedalus16:13
fsmithredwell almost16:13
onefangASCII -> Beowulf -> Chimaera -> Daedalus16:13
fsmithredceres will always be ceres16:13
fsmithredyeah, thanks16:14
blottomanHow involved is installilng native nvidia support in devuan? I'm currently using pop-os on a 5th generation lenovo x1 carbon because nvidia sort of "just works". I'm not digging systemd and the available packages and am pondering the idea of going devuan or void.16:42
buZzblottoman: very uninvolved16:44
buZzjust follow
buZzor TLDR; just > # apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree16:44
buZzshould be plenty16:44
gnarfaceblottoman: it's just like debian. nvidia support is scattered across a couple dozen packages or so. they won't all auto-install alongside "nvidia-driver" necessarily, but if you run into something not working let me know and i can probably tell you which one you're missing18:32
gnarface(or which one to remove)18:32
n4dirusing devuan-testing, icewm, i put synaptic as a desktop-icon. It doesn't open. Says it uses "synaptic-pkexec".20:23
n4dirif i click on synpatic in the apps-menu, it doesn't open either20:24
gnarfacen4dir: did you try putting synaptic-pkexec in the icon instead?20:25
n4dirlet me look20:25
n4dirwait. I ran synaptic-pkexec from a terminal. It complains too20:26
gnarfacewell it probably needs root permissions20:26
gnarfacetry it as root20:27
n4diri used it from terminal with "sudo synaptic-pkexec" and at least it started it. didn't ask for a password though20:27
gnarfaceyikes, but maybe the auth was cached because you used sudo on something else recently?20:27
n4diri don't think so20:28
gnarfacedid you put NOPASSWORD in your sudo config>20:28
n4diryeah, but not for that command20:29
gnarfaceyou sure?20:29
gnarfacewithout looking at it for you i can only assume you know what you're doing with it and did it right20:32
gnarfacethere's not a lot of other possible culprits though20:32
gnarface... maybe a bug in pam or something20:32
gnarfaceseen that once a long time ago though20:33
gnarfacemaybe try to touch all the files in /etc/pam.d/ and reboot20:33
n4dirno pam at all20:34
n4diroh, there it is. sorry20:34
gnarfacei'm foggy on the rules of whether sudo needs pam or not, but most of the functioning system needs pam20:34
gnarfacessh definitely needs pam20:34
gnarfaceare you doing this over ssh?20:34
gnarfaceare you doing it in a VM?20:34
n4diryes, qemu20:35
gnarfacedo you have gnome-keyring or something like that installed?20:36
n4diri think i saw it a few minutes ago, let me check20:36
n4dirgnome-keyring itself, libpam and pkcs1120:37
gnarfacecheck for a package called pkexec too20:37
n4dirdid it, is installed20:37
gnarfacepkexec itself is installed?20:37
gnarfacehow about polkit?20:38
gnarfaceer, policykit20:38
gnarfaceprobably should be several packages with both strings in their names actually20:38
n4dirall kind of polkit and policykit is installed20:39
n4dirso yeah , several20:39
gnarfacehmm, i'm not sure what's wrong20:39
n4dirweird, but thanks for you help20:39
gnarfacewell, i'm sure synaptic needs root permissions to work, one way or another. what's not clear is why it's not getting them.20:39
n4dirdid i say it is devuan-testing?20:40
gnarfacethe sudo caching auth thing is probably a separate issue20:40
gnarfaceyea, you did mention it's testing20:40
n4dirgnarface: yeah. Also funny that from cli i can use sudo  synaptic, i can't use sudo synaptic-pkexed20:40
gnarfacethat might be a peculiarity of pkexec20:40
n4dirbut the main concern is the icon and the  menu entry to not work20:40
n4dirif i have to let the user type it from cli, i might just as well teach him how to use apt20:41
gnarfacewell you can just add sudo to the command line in the link, can't you?20:41
n4dirdid it, didn't work.20:41
gnarfacedo you have a graphical login?20:41
gnarface(in the VM i mean)20:42
n4dirno graphical login20:42
gnarfacei wonder if policykit needs one to work right with the desktop or something20:43
gnarfacegoogle says you need gksu but i know that's been removed like 3 releases ago20:43
n4dirnow i slowly remember something similar, then trying xfce, there it did work, then figured out what a WM needs to do to work too. But forgot what20:43
n4dirnot synaptic related, but a similar thing20:44
gnarfacehang on20:45
gnarfacechecking old release notes...20:45
n4diri see that xfce autostarts policy_kit. doing ps ax in qemu, i don't see it running20:45
gnarfacedo you have consolekit installed?20:46
gnarfacei think you might need to make sure consolekit is not installed, then make sure elogind and libpam-elogind are20:47
gnarfaceand then also you might need lightdm as your login manager for them to play nice with the desktop20:47
gnarfacenot sure about this, i try to avoid this shit20:47
n4dirboth are installed, consolekit is not20:48
gnarfaceyou mean elogind and libpam-elogind are both installed, but lightdm is not, right?20:48
n4diri meant consolekit is not, but lightdm isn't installed either20:48
n4dirlet me install it20:49
gnarfacetry installing lightdm, and restarting the VM, that's my best guess at the moment20:49
gnarfaceascii release notes suggest it was necessary back then, but since that it's been removed from the release notes20:49
n4dirwill do that, then eat (after reporting if that helped)20:49
n4dirfor a noob i thought about going for autologin, but lightdm is just as nice for him, compared to startx20:50
gnarfacegolinux might have a suggestion, but if i recall it might just be to use the gksu package from an old release20:50
n4diroh, also "trash is now on the desktop. Already good20:50
gnarfacelightdm enabled your trash basket? interesting....20:51
gnarfacethat's a good sign i suppose20:51
gnarfacejust curious but can you check for these packages? policykit-1, policykit-1-gnome20:52
gnarfaceand which window manager was this? did you say xfce?20:52
n4dirxfce i usually have installed, but not there20:53
gnarfaceone possibly related note, at least from the release notes back in ascii they mentioned that lightdm+elogind only play nice with cinnamon, kde, and lxqt. for mate and xfce you needed slim+consolekit instead (mutually exclusive choice trios)20:53
gnarfacethat should have been fixed across the board afaik just based on the lack of the mention of it in later release notes, but none of those mention icewm at all...20:54
n4dirthe problem is still there, after installing lightdm, and after reboot20:55
gnarfacecould be a bug in testing but i think you're just missing a package and i don't know which one20:55
gnarfacegolinux do you remember what the solution here is? (is it still just to use the old gksu package?)20:55
gnarfacei was pretty sure it's supposed to work if you get the right packages together, but i can't be sure anyone has tested this with icewm20:56
gnarfaceVM guest and host are both testing?20:58
gnarfacehost shouldn't matter but not sure20:59
n4dirno, host is stable21:01
n4dirworks in xfce.21:03
gnarfacehuh, interesting. and with no other package changes?21:03
gnarfaceor did xfce pull in a bunch of stuff?21:04
gnarfacewithout uninstalling xfce, go back to icewm and see if it's fixed now21:04
n4dirchecked that right now, still doesn't work in icewm21:04
gnarfacealright, looks like you found a bug then21:04
n4dirxfce told me to make it executable and to mark it too, did it both for me, but no gain in icewm21:05
n4dirperhaps not a bug, still it might be xfce autostarts something21:05
n4dirpolicykit, or how it is called21:05
gnarfaceyea, also possible that icewm needs consolekit instead21:05
n4diryou can't have it all. Whoever will use the laptop when done, will have to get the head in something21:06
n4dirhe can now start xfce if he wants to look at synaptic, which he probably won't anyway21:06
n4diror just stick to xfce, which is a good choice anyway21:06
n4dirgnarface: thanks a ton for your help, ideas and time.21:06
gnarfaceno problem. sorry we didn't really find a solution. if you had gksu though, it would obviate the issue, as then you could just get a popup prompt for the root password21:07
gnarfacei think it was a mistake for them to remove it21:08
gnarfacethe old version might still work though without even needing to be rebuilt21:09
gnarfaceit did for at least one or two releases past when it was officially removed21:09
n4dirthe only think i see right now, is that xfce autostarts policykit-1-gnome.21:11
n4dirlet me put that in .icewm/startup21:11
fsmithredn4dir, when gksu went away, I switched to using xterm and sudo21:11
fsmithredsudo? or su21:11
fsmithredlook at the last couple of lines of refractainstaller-wrapper21:13
* Xenguy never had any occasion to use gksu ...21:13
n4dirfsmithred: will do, after eating21:13
fsmithred# If sudo fails, ask for root password.21:14
fsmithredxterm -fa mono -fs 12 -e  "echo 'If user password fails, use root password.' && sudo  $installer ||  su -c $installer"21:14
fsmithredpretty sure I came up with that through trial and error21:15
fsmithredin live-iso, you get sudo with no password, so the installer just starts21:15
gnarfacethis is basically using xterm as a graphical password prompt?21:15
gnarfaceclever, really21:15
fsmithredbecause I couldn't figure out how to use pkexec21:16
fsmithrednot for lack of trying21:16
n4diri remember gksu being straight forward, idiot-proff21:16
n4dirproof even21:16
XenguyWhat happened to it, is it gone now?21:16
fsmithredpkexec is idiot proof if someone else does the hard work21:17
fsmithredyeah, it's gone21:17
fsmithredI think it died with jessie21:17
gnarfaceno, it made it into ascii but no further21:17
XenguyWhat was the reason, unmaintained, or ...?21:17
gnarfaceprobably replaced by systemd :-p21:18
fsmithredI think they said it was not secure enough21:18
n4dirway before systemd21:18
fsmithredi tend to think it was not complex enough21:18
Xenguybear skins and stone knives21:18
fsmithredyes, please21:18
n4dirif i ever have to use a gui progam as root, i just do su, then start from cli21:18
n4dirbut i am not sure if that works with a display-manager21:18
Xenguy.oO( Sounds not bad at all ... )21:19
fsmithredthat works in refracta but not in plain devuan21:19
fsmithredn4dir, ^^^21:19
fsmithredunless you fix su21:19
gnarfacewell it works if you change xhost settings21:19
fsmithredor that21:19
n4dirworks here, who knows why21:19
n4diri would have sworn with a display-manager it won't work21:20
gnarfaceyou have to do something like "xhost +localhost" and then root programs can use a non-root Xorg instance21:20
gnarfaceby default it won't be set to let anyone but the user who started Xorg use it, but i'm not sure what other packges may change it automatically to a different default21:20
fsmithredecho 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' >> /etc/default/su21:21
n4diroh, that i have21:21
fsmithredI didn't know it was possible to have desktop icons in icewm21:22
fsmithredwas just gonna ask that21:22
n4dirthough antix recommends other filemanagers to do it21:22
n4dirspacefm? and something zzz*21:23
n4dirfor those two days i fiddle with it, i sure apprecitate the work antix did to offer all that stff21:24
n4dirto me this ain't much fun21:24
fsmithredyeah, spacefm will do it, too21:30
fsmithredboth of those file managers will also work with pmount or udevil for mounting removable media21:31
n4dirah, right,  now i remember i saw it yesterday21:32

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