libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2023-05-22

AlexLikeRockhi folks00:59
gnarfaceyo AlexLikeRock01:19
AlexLikeRockDevuan GNU/Linux 4 \n \l01:25
AlexLikeRockaplay -l03:05
AlexLikeRockaplay: device_list:274: no soundcards found...03:05
gnarfacewhich release, AlexLikeRock?03:08
AlexLikeRockdevuan ASCII03:09
gnarfacedid it ever work?03:09
AlexLikeRocki dont found alsa-base  to install03:09
AlexLikeRockyes , at other laptop .. this HDD03:10
gnarfaceusually the issue is just that you need a newer kernel03:10
gnarfacehave you considered upgrading?03:10
AlexLikeRockso...  i change to other PC (IBM LENOVO) , and lost the audio03:10
gnarfaceyou should try a chimaera or daedalus live iso03:10
AlexLikeRocki cat , this machine its old03:10
AlexLikeRockbut , new kernel03:11
AlexLikeRockLinux sexy 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1 (2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux03:11
fsmithredalsa-base went away03:13
fsmithredbut you must already have it for aplay to be there03:14
AlexLikeRockthanks so much , i found  like "alsa-utils"03:15
fsmithreddoes lspci show sound card?03:15
AlexLikeRocklspci: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ version `LIBPCI_3.6' not found (required by lspci)03:16
AlexLikeRockaplay -l03:16
AlexLikeRockaplay: device_list:274: no soundcards found...03:16
fsmithredok, something is obviously screwed up03:17
fsmithredso this is ascii mixed with what else?03:17
AlexLikeRock the last time i make HALF upgrade03:18
fsmithreddo you even know which half?03:18
fsmithredmaybe you can finish the upgrade, or maybe it's easier to start over03:19
AlexLikeRockyes , its the best way ,03:19
fsmithredis it an old thinkpad?03:20
AlexLikeRock but my internet its OVER this month03:20
AlexLikeRocki got sloww internet03:20
AlexLikeRocki need wait  a week to get full  speed03:21
AlexLikeRockyes , old thinkpad03:21
fsmithredhow old?03:21
AlexLikeRockThinkCentre M57p03:21
AlexLikeRockits . like GRANDPA03:22
fsmithredI don't know that one03:22
AlexLikeRockcore 2 duo03:22
fsmithredT420 and T450 audio works.03:22
fsmithredhow much ram?03:23
AlexLikeRock2 flame-Gigas03:24
fsmithredbe selective with what you install and run03:24
AlexLikeRocki remember why ,.. i pull back to ascii03:37
AlexLikeRock because , GKSU are remove  from  newest vertions03:38
gnarfacecan someone remind me why gksu hasn't been ported forward?03:39
brocashelmgnarface: something about being deprecated upstream due to security vulnerabilities03:40
brocashelmrecommend to use lxqt-sudo (lxsu also works) in place03:40
gnarfacegood tip, brocashelm. AlexLikeRock ^03:41
brocashelmin short, the devs recommend to fall back on policykit instead with pkexec, but you can get away with lxqt-sudo instead of pkexec if you want to avoid policykit/polkit03:42
AlexLikeRockoh  . cool !03:43
AlexLikeRock letme  try03:43
AlexLikeRockyes, but i love more the confort whit GKSU , more that  vulnerabilities03:44
siduckhi everyone!03:46
AlexLikeRockhi dude03:47
siduckim unable to setup nvidia-driver03:47
siduckit gives me this error whenever starting the service03:47
siduck 󰀘   ~  service nvidia-persistenced start03:47
siduckStarting NVIDIA Persistence Daemon03:47
siducknvidia-persistenced failed to initialize. Check syslog for more details.03:47
gnarfacesiduck: uninstall nvidia-persistenced03:47
siduckand /var/log/syslog is empty!, ok uninstalled03:48
brocashelmalexlikerock: lxqt-sudo is very similar to gksu and has a familiar prompt interface. should work with gtk desktops and wm-only setups, too03:48
siduckgnarface whats the next step?03:48
gnarfacesiduck: i'm not sure if you have to reboot or not, i would actually assume not but i could be wrong03:49
AlexLikeRocklisted LEDZEPELLIN03:49
gnarfacesiduck: there's no other steps, it was probably the old version, you don't need it either way03:49
brocashelmcommunication breakdown!03:49
siduckoh but i thought nvidia-driver package needed it!03:50
AlexLikeRock lxqt-sudo : Depend: liblxqt0 (>= 0.9.0+20150911) but not its  instalable03:50
AlexLikeRocksam !03:50
gnarfacesiduck: no, it's optional03:50
AlexLikeRockfsmithred,   T420 and T450  not found at aptitude03:55
AlexLikeRock where to donwload ?03:56
AlexLikeRockthey say "<fsmithred> T420 and T450 audio works.   "03:57
AlexLikeRockwhat its the package ?03:57
brocashelmnot installable? are you on an older devuan release than chimaera?03:57
gnarfaceit should work with the standard kernel, but you might need alsa-utils from the release matching the kernel03:58
brocashelmyeah, it's not in debian until buster (beowulf for devuan)03:58
AlexLikeRockoh 103:58
AlexLikeRockno no no03:58
AlexLikeRockim talk about03:59
AlexLikeRock audio03:59
gnarfacealsa-utils alsa-ucm-conf alsa-topology-conf alsa-tools alsa-oss03:59
gnarfaceyou got all those?04:00
gnarfacefrom chimaera, to match the kernel04:01
gnarfacejust in case04:01
AlexLikeRocki found, i need  alsa-tools alsa-oss , tanks gnarface04:02
brocashelmare you not able to upgrade to beowulf?04:03
AlexLikeRocki not have alot internet04:03
AlexLikeRockbrocashelm,  i need wait 2 weeks04:04
AlexLikeRockinit 604:04
AlexLikeRockgnarface,  i found the problem with the audio05:47
AlexLikeRockits DISABLED by BIOS05:48
AlexLikeRockAlexLikeRock, its lisstening  Bob Marley & The Wailers - Waiting in Vain at XMMS05:52
gnarfacewell glad you figured it out05:55
siduckdoes anyone use mist here?05:59
siduck 󰀘   ~  mist05:59
siduckmist: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory05:59
siduckeven tho libssl-dev is installed05:59
siduckIm using devuan daedulus06:00
brocashelmis libssl3 installed?06:54
brocashelmnvm, he left06:54
n4dir  replacing the init system, in my case sysv with runit, was easy right?12:27
n4dirInstall the other init system, then, perhaps, add it to the grub command?12:27
n4dirto put it different: is there a how-to somewhere, say in the forum?12:31
AhmedNabilhi all15:01
AhmedNabilI have simple question ⁉️15:01
AhmedNabilwhat is different between ceres repo and unstable repo?!15:01
djphceres is unstable ...16:03
thierry_what package can replace gnome-logs, which is based on systemd?17:54
debdogfrom what I understand that is just a prog to view systemd-logs and does not actually depend on a _running_ systemd. thierry_18:08
debdogso it should™ work in devuan (at least the package is available and not blocked)18:08
debdoginstalling it does not pull anything in that I hadn't installed previously. and systemd is not one the is installed.18:10
thierry_Thanks, but it doesn't ("Error opening systemd journal")18:11
debdogI see18:12
debdogunfortunately it doesn't tell why it isn't able to open it. could as well be an ownership issue.18:13
thierry_There is ksystemlog, but i'm not using KDE18:15
debdogohh, you're not trying to view logs from another systemd-infected system but your own, non-systemd system?18:15
thierry_No, trying to view logs in /var/log. I can of course use less in a terminal, but not easy to spot a problem18:18
debdogI am certain there are GUI progs for that. someone will have a suggestion, just wait for someone more knowledgeable (I assume in two to three hours there will be more people alive in here)18:20
thierry_OK, thanks. No rush18:27
fsmithredhe didn't wait, but my suggestion is to use "/" inside less to search for relevant words.19:01
fsmithredor grep the log19:02
debdogI suppose he was looking for something that highlites errors and warnings to easily spot them. to find irregularities even though the system seems to work fine.19:08
debdogno clue what gnome-logs does exactly, just imagining what I'd expect from a log viewer.19:10
debdogAhmedNabil: <djph> ceres is unstable ...
AhmedNabilWhen making frish install and choosing gnome desktop sound didn't work ( unstable repo )19:28
AhmedNabilno sound output device19:30
n4dirif it was me i'd open a terminal and look what alsamixer might say.19:39
n4dirif nothing too, i'd search for the script and run it.19:40
n4dirif that doesn't reveal anything, i'd go for lspci -k ; and search for sound, if a driver is running19:40
n4dirthere is a stoneage how-to at, how to troubleshoot sound. Probably not up-to-date anymore19:40
n4diryou could also ask in #opensourcemusicians or #lau (linux audio users), assuming here no one will know19:41
n4dirgood luck19:41
gnarfacewe have a string of people with problems instantly quitting today19:56
gnarfaceseems worse than usual19:57
gnarfacei wonder if someone is staging this to try to construct a false narrative19:57
Xenguygnarface, What's that old saying?  Never attribute to __________, what can be attributed to stupidity?19:58
gnarfaceXenguy: yea. i'm familiar with that saying, but it's astroturf. i've never seen it actually used as an excuse in a situation where what was being attributed to stupidity wasn't wanton betrayal.20:00
gnarfaceincompetence is the first and last defense of 5th columnists20:01
n4diri can offer a question without leaving after asking it20:01
n4dirthe architecture for netbooks, arm , is arm64 ?20:01
gnarfaceis this a serious question? mostly it's arm64 these days for newer hardware, but in the context of the cross-compiling environment variables it's called "aarch64" apparently just to confuse everyone20:02
gnarfaceolder stuff is arm, armel, or armhf depending on the context20:02
gnarface(armhf is 32-bit with floating point, armel is 32-bit without floating-point)20:03
n4dirjust to install, no cross-compiling or such20:04
n4dirah, armhf would be 32 bit?20:04
n4dirok, so i first need to check that on said netbooks20:05
gnarfacemost the newer hardware is arm64 these days though20:05
n4diri did a search for "distros for arm netbooks", not much interesting to be found.20:05
n4dirprobably devuan would be a solid choice?20:05
gnarfacesome (all?) of the arm64 stuff can even do 32-bit code, dual-arch style like amd6420:05
n4diror is there something hip i never heard of?20:05
n4dirprobably old hardware, i will check it tomorrow20:05
gnarfacei dunno, i run devuan on my arm64 netbooks. had to learn to cross-compile a kernel and u-boot first, but the rest was just a simple debootstrap of the arm64 base install20:06
n4dirbut there are isos for arm64, no?20:10
gnarfaceso, the issue with arm devices in general, and arm64 being slightly better but in no way a material exception, is that there's almost ubiquitously no bios, and lacking that, no standardized way to bring the hardware up.20:11
gnarfaceso we do have arm64 images here, but they're each for specific models20:11
gnarfacethere's no real guarantee you won't have to build your boot loader and kernel custom for whatever hardware you're selecting20:12
n4diroh. what a shit20:12
gnarfaceblame the industry20:12
gnarfacecurrent arm images are here though:
n4diri will fool with the other, usual-standard, hardware first then20:12
gnarfacethere's a selection of images for popular devices that have been donated to devuan for builds20:13
gnarfacebroadcom's raspberry pi hardware is heavily featured20:13
n4diryeah, they are netbooks though, or how it is called20:14
gnarfacethere's also some other images for devices in the "embedded" directory for ascii that never got forward-ported, but may be simple to update
hacksenwerkHi. I recently uninstalled pulseaudio and pavucontrol and installed alsa-utils instead. I rebooted the computer after that. However, cmus tells me: "Error: opening audio device: internal error"20:40
hacksenwerkDo I miss something?20:40
gnarfacehacksenwerk: make sure you're in the "audio" group20:40
hacksenwerkyes I am20:41
n4dirperhaps you got a config file like asoundrc or such20:41
n4dirwhich says to use pulse20:41
gnarfacehacksenwerk: and make sure you have all these packages: alsa-oss alsa-tools alsa-topology-conf alsa-ucm-conf alsa-utils20:41
gnarface(some of them may not be needed but none should hurt)20:41
gnarfaceand yea, this should work without any alsa config, but pulseaudio may have left behind some cruft that sabotages it20:42
gnarfacei forget exactly where20:42
gnarfacebut i've seen it before20:42
hacksenwerkn4dir: in cmus setting there is this: :set (empty value there), :set mixer.alsa.device= (also no value there), maybe I need to add something there?20:43
hacksenwerkgnarface: what? do I really need all these packages?20:43
gnarfacehacksenwerk: like i said, you might not need them all but they shouldn't hurt if they're not needed and everything is working right20:43
n4dirif cmus is somehow like mocp it should just pick whichever soundserver is running, if ... there is no config like asoundrc which tells otherwise20:44
n4dirbut i don't really understand all that. good luck20:44
gnarfacehacksenwerk: i would start by installing them "just in case" and then start by testing with "speaker-test"20:44
n4dirrunning alsamixer won't hurt20:44
gnarfaceyes, you should at least look at it to make sure it's showing the right device20:44
hacksenwerkn4dir: I did run it it all looks fine20:44
gnarfaceif speaker-test doesn't even work though you need to find that pulseaudio cruft and throw it overboard20:45
hacksenwerkbut I find some pulse files here in my home I will delete them20:45
gnarfacethere might be something in /etc/20:45
gnarfacemaybe /etc/pulse/20:45
gnarfacemost of it is probably harmless20:46
hacksenwerkin .config there's the dir pulse, wich contains a lot of stuff, also the pavucontrol.ini, but that should just be the config20:46
hacksenwerkyeah I will take a look20:46
hacksenwerkgnarface: ^20:46
gnarfacethe thing i'm thinking of is just one line somewhere but i forget where sorry20:46
hacksenwerkholy sh**20:47
hacksenwerkpulse left a lot of files in the rootfilesystem...20:48
n4dirfor me usually ~/.asoundrc is the culprit if alsa doesn't work, but that might or might not be  jack thing20:48
gnarfacehacksenwerk: did you customize ~/.asoundrc or anything in /etc/alsa/?20:48
hacksenwerkgnarface: no20:49
hacksenwerkEven /etc/alsa contains pulse config files...20:49
gnarfacewait that might be the thing20:49
hacksenwerkyeah I delete them20:49
gnarfacewait some may be normal though20:49
gnarfacewhich file name?20:49
gnarfacei don't use pulse here so i can compare20:49
gnarfacemy /etc/alsa/ directory is empty except for /etc/alsa/conf.d/20:50
hacksenwerk/etc/alsa/conf.d/50-pulseaudio.conf and /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pulseaudio-default.conf.example20:50
gnarfacehmm, yea i have that one too and it looks suspicious but it's not hurting anything here20:50
hacksenwerkI uninstalled pulse after I installed alsa20:50
hacksenwerkgnarface: so it is probably not hurting that I delete it ;)20:51
n4diryou could quickly create a new (test)-user and check if he has sound20:51
gnarfacehacksenwerk: to be clear, alsa is a kernel component. you didn't install or uninstall it. all you installed was some userspace tools you should have already had.20:51
n4dirthen you know if it is a config in ~ or in /etc20:51
gnarfacethat's not a bad idea20:51
hacksenwerkgnarface: oh I didn't know that.20:51
n4dirif in home you could "grep" for something in the hidden configs, say -i pulse or such20:52
hacksenwerko_0.... /etc/gufw/app_profiles/pulseaudio.jhansonx20:52
hacksenwerkWhy do pulse audio need a firewall profile?20:52
gnarfacehacksenwerk: dunno what that is, but i don't have it20:52
hacksenwerkgufw is a gui for ufw20:52
gnarfacehacksenwerk: maybe because pulseaudio can do network streaming20:52
hacksenwerkufw = uncomplicated firewall20:52
hacksenwerkgnarface: oh....20:52
gnarfaceSteam is the only thing i've seen that requires it20:53
hacksenwerkDoes it call poettering? =O20:53
hacksenwerkno steam here20:53
gnarfacei have some tricks to avoid using it and use netcat instead, if you're ever stuck trying20:53
hacksenwerkI just can not understand, why an apt autoremove --purge doesn't also remove all files a package has created...20:54
gnarfacesigh ... because the package has to be coded to explicitly delete everything it copied in or it just doesn't get done.20:55
n4dirthere is "aptitude purge ~c"; which might (or might not) remove left-over config files20:55
n4diralso deborphan20:55
gnarfacevery good quality packges clean up after themselves nicely20:55
gnarfacepulseaudio wasn't ever known to be "good"20:55
n4dirboth should be used with caution20:55
n4dirin other words: it happens more than you assume you got leftovers20:56
hacksenwerkn4dir: Oh be careful with deborphan... I used it a lot in the past till it wanted to remove the half system....20:56
fsmithredaptitude search ~c to find leftover configs20:56
hacksenwerkgnarface: seems like20:56
gnarfacethere's also a program called "cruft" literally that you can install (may have been changed to cruft-ng in current testing) that can help you look for stuff that got left behind20:56
AnyCreatureMorphWill kde still be supported in the future?20:56
fsmithredyeah, deborphan lists some things that I explicitly installed20:56
gnarfaceAnyCreatureMorph: why wouldn't it be?20:57
hacksenwerkfsmithred: yes it's dangerous20:57
hacksenwerkgnarface: I find cruft-ng and will check it out20:57
gnarfacedamn, i really wish i could remember where pulseaudio leaves that config slug behind. this has come up multiple times before.20:58
AnyCreatureMorphgnarface: So plasma 6 will be supported on the unstable branch.20:58
gnarfaceAnyCreatureMorph: i'm not really on the inside loop, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence kde is getting removed, since it's still in the repos and testing is officially frozen21:00
gnarfaceAnyCreatureMorph: (and the version in testing currently seems to be the same exact version still in unstable)21:01
gnarfaceAnyCreatureMorph: if you're nervous, you should fire up a daedalus live iso21:01
hacksenwerkehm... I have a /.cache21:01
hacksenwerkWhere does that come from? ^^'21:01
gnarfaceAnyCreatureMorph: ... since i haven't tested it myself since beowulf21:01
hacksenwerkit's empty but weird...21:02
gnarfacehacksenwerk: general cache directory, everything started using it lately21:02
hacksenwerkAnyCreatureMorph: daedalus is great, gibe it a try! Very stable already21:02
gnarfacehacksenwerk: i thik it might have something to do with the XDG_* standardization21:03
hacksenwerkgnarface: oh really? I didn't notice that until cruft-ng reports it ^^21:03
n4dirin the interest of science: i for one don't see much danger in deborphan21:03
n4diras long you don't copy and paste a command and run it without thinking about it21:03
hacksenwerkBut I need to read the man for cruft-ng, I don't understand it's output... it mostly lists my scripts in /usr/local/bin xD21:03
gnarfacehacksenwerk: yea it might basically just find everything unpackaged, which can often include stuff that was legitimately created by packages or by you.21:04
gnarfaceafaik the ~/.cache directory is literally a cache and it should be safe to delete anything in there but it'll just get put back the next time whatever cached there gets run21:05
n4diri rm it all the time21:05
hacksenwerkn4dir: I had deborphan in a script of mine wich just made a apt autoremove --purge "$@" and after that deborphan and I piped the output of it to apt again, to remove the orphaned packages... However, some day it wanted to remove the half system and I couldn't figure out why. Since then I stopped using it.21:05
gnarfacei'm seeing stuff in there from vlc, thunderbird, unity, youtube-dl, wine, inkscape, mozilla, mesa... etc21:05
hacksenwerkgnarface: mine is empty21:06
n4dirhacksenwerk: sure. But that is not what makes deborphan dangerous, but running it in a script.21:06
n4diror at least piping it to a purge with -y21:06
hacksenwerkn4dir: in standalone it still listed that packages, it was a bug I guess.21:07
hacksenwerkof course not with -y ...21:07
hacksenwerkThat's the reason I could stop it from uninstall my system...21:07
n4dirwell, if i uninstall half my system, i just reinstall that again21:08
n4dirnot nice, but no biggie either. Anyway: to each his own21:08
n4diri don't use it anymore myself :-)21:08
hacksenwerkn4dir: uninstall a running kernel? ouch...21:09
hacksenwerkAh I have xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin here too21:09
gnarfacehacksenwerk: did you remove ~/.pulse/ and ~/.config/pulse/ and then relog?21:09
hacksenwerkgood bye plugin21:09
n4dirchroot, reinstall the kernel, case closed21:09
hacksenwerkn4dir:  I don't know how to use chroot21:10
n4dirhacksenwerk: as said, you probably are right regarding deborphan, and many claim so.21:10
hacksenwerkgnarface: yes I removed .config/pulse but ~/.pulse does not exist. I remove some other stuff, then I will just reboot. :)21:10
hacksenwerkn4dir: So deborphan will become an orphan? D:21:11
fsmithredI don't think apt will let you remove a running kernel21:12
gnarfacehacksenwerk: oh, one other thing that occurs to me; many programs store their own persistent audio config and may still be pointing to the now missing pulseaudio. did you ever test it with speaker-test?21:12
hacksenwerkgnarface: I will reboot now. brb.21:12
gnarfacefsmithred: it absolutely will. it might issue a warning.21:12
n4diryou even have to type "YES", perhaps "Yes", hitting just Enter-key or typing just "Y" won't do it, iirc21:13
fsmithredok, I may be thinking of the warning. Pretty sure I tried it once.21:13
n4dirbeen more than a decade for sure. I decided to not remove it21:13
gnarfacedoing so was in fact a necessary step to fixing a package conflict back in ascii or jessie i think21:14
gnarfacewhen migrating from debian21:14
gnarfacebut you had to know to install a fresh kernel before you rebooted21:14
gnarfacethat part, the warnings weren't so clear about21:14
hacksenwerkStill not working... :(21:18
n4dirdid you try the test-user yet?21:18
hacksenwerkI found another option in cmus settings: :set dsp.alsa.device=21:18
hacksenwerkoh yeah the speaker tes!21:18
gnarfacehacksenwerk: what does speaker-test output when you run it?21:18
hacksenwerkwill do soory xD21:19
hacksenwerkspeakers make noise21:19
gnarfacehacksenwerk: it's important they make noise in the right order, but any noise at all suggests your audio is fundamentally working, there must be some issue with cmus config itself21:20
hacksenwerkwait i try freetube sound21:20
hacksenwerkgnarface: yup!21:21
hacksenwerkfreetube has sound but cmus not21:21
gnarfacehacksenwerk: does the cmus config contain the line "set output_plugin=alsa" ?21:22
hacksenwerkgnarface: no only the ones I posted21:22
gnarfacegot some lines here for you to try:21:22
gnarfaceset output_plugin=alsa21:23
gnarfaceset dsp.alsa.device=default21:23
gnarfaceset mixer.alsa.device=default21:23
gnarfacetry that21:23
gnarface"Master" might be wrong. if "Master" doesn't show up in your alsamixer view, replace "Master" with something that does (maybe "PCM" or something)21:24
hacksenwerkthe set output_plugin=alsa option is not here by default so I will add it21:24
hacksenwerkyeah it is Speaker here21:25
gnarfaceis that the one on the far left?21:25
gnarfacetry it21:25
hacksenwerkwait a sec21:25
gnarfacethat's fine. those field names aren't standardized, they're just picked by the driver developers21:25
gnarfacealsamixer auto-generates an interface based on your driver's hardware topology info21:26
hacksenwerkhmmm... I can add :set output_plugin=alsa to the settings in cmus, I try adding that to the config file directly then21:26
gnarfacei think you have to add it to the config yes21:27
hacksenwerkhahaha... there's is not config file xD21:27
gnarfacei don't use cmus, i am just copying these fields from a config i found on google that looked right21:27
hacksenwerkill do a search21:27
gnarfacewait, look for ~/.config/cmus/rc21:28
gnarfacefrom the arch wiki (may be relevant anyway):
hacksenwerkno that doesn't exist21:28
gnarfaceyou have to create it21:29
gnarfacewell, the arch wiki says you have to create it. there's every possibility debian just put one elsewhere but i'd try this first21:29
hacksenwerkhm.. yeah maybe...21:29
hacksenwerkbut does it overwrite the settings? and where are the settings stored?21:30
hacksenwerkI search in /21:30
gnarfacecheck the man page21:30
gnarface"man cmus"21:30
n4dirusually /usr/share/name-of21:30
n4dirsometimes /etc21:30
gnarfacethe man page usually list all the config file locations21:30
n4dirwhereis cmus ; might show it too21:31
* n4dir defiantly fights the manpage !, the proper approach, that is21:31
hacksenwerkgnarface: nah I use find21:32
gnarfacehacksenwerk: ah. my guess is that is meant to be the system default one and ~/.config/cmus/rc will override it per user21:33
n4diri yet have to run in a cli audio-player you have to configure to get at least sound.21:33
n4diri am still not convinced that is the real problem21:33
hacksenwerkthat usr config file doesn't conatin anything about alsa, so it is some exmaple I guess...21:33
gnarfacehacksenwerk: feel free to edit the global one but just be aware your changes could get replaced by the package manager during an upgrade. changes to ~/.config/cmus/ should not be touched.21:34
hacksenwerkYou know what: I uninstall it and install it again! ^^21:34
gnarfacewell, if it's behaving well it shouldn't need special configs to not use pulseaudio but i'm not familiar enough with this program to know if it's well behaved21:34
hacksenwerkI didn't made any changes i nthe settings and rebuilding the library is done in a minute21:34
hacksenwerkBefore I steal your and n4dir time even more... ^^'21:35
n4dirgnarface: would make sense to check another audioplayer?21:35
n4diroh, i love it. Because audio is so confusing, and i am glad i am not in the situation21:35
gnarfacen4dir: we already verified speaker-test is working. this is definitely a problem specific to cmus21:35
n4dirgnarface: ah, right. i read it, but forgot21:36
hacksenwerk ~/.config/cmus/autosave is the config!21:36
hacksenwerkwho thinks of configs in a file called autosave???21:36
hacksenwerksounds more like the play queue is here temp saved... to me I mean21:37
gnarfacehacksenwerk: oh, maybe it generates that config file based on something you put in the GUI?21:37
hacksenwerkand it contains set output_plugin=alsa ... o_0 so it _have_ saved it but it didn't show up in the settings window in cmus...21:38
hacksenwerkI remember reading, that when you change some metatag of your audio files, you must clean the cache of cmus, because it doesn't update it all the time, maybe that's the same procedere here.21:39
gnarfacecould be21:39
gnarfaceworth a try anyway21:39
gnarfacedoes cmus have any error log?21:40
hacksenwerkyeah set output_plugin=alsa _is_ in that autosave file but even if I restart cmus it is not shown up in the settings window (7)21:40
gnarfacewhat about the other 3 lines?21:41
gnarfacesetting default and Master?21:41
gnarfacei agree you shouldn't have to, but i'm over it21:41
hacksenwerkgnarface: these are there by default21:42
hacksenwerkbut clear -l and then pressing u doesn't work for the settings... :(21:43
hacksenwerkit only clears the library21:43
hacksenwerkOh man...21:43
hacksenwerkI reinstall it now! -.-21:43
n4dirdid you try to "mv ~/.config/cmus ~/.config/cmus_backup" and restart cmus yet?21:44
hacksenwerkOh and I forgot to mention: I used cmus in the past with alsa, without struggling arround with some settings21:44
hacksenwerkn4dir: don't need to backup21:44
n4dirreinstall shouldn't help, as it usually works, and you didn't edit any system wide configs, so it should be a user setting21:45
hacksenwerkI changed nothing of the default settings21:45
n4dirnot a backup, to start from scratch, as if it was reinstalled21:45
hacksenwerkn4dir: oh i see21:45
hacksenwerkok i'll give it a try ^^21:45
n4dirif that didn't work, you might move it back in place21:45
n4dirhacksenwerk: it works here too, with alsa. Installed it, had hard times to figure it out, but it works right away with also.21:45
gnarfacethe man page says it reads config files in this order: $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/cmus/autosave, /usr/share/cmus/rc, $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/cmus/rc21:46
hacksenwerkn4dir: hahaha that do the trick21:46
hacksenwerkI will differ now the files21:47
n4dirTada ! Party !21:47
hacksenwerkYeah cmus party!21:47
gnarfaceheh, congrats21:47
n4dirthe good thing is now i have it installed.21:47
hacksenwerkThank you gnarface21:47
hacksenwerkThank you n4dir21:47
gnarfaceseems like it must have stored some pulseaudio stuff in the auto-generated config21:47
n4dirno problem, it was interesting to listen21:47
hacksenwerkn4dir: oh cool it's a pretty good player21:47
n4diryeah, you said so in offtopic21:48
hacksenwerkgnarface: yeah ill check it and report then21:48
n4dirhacksenwerk: my idea to quickly create a test user is really a good approach, the first to do, to figure out if it might be related to user configs in home21:49
n4dirin general21:49
hacksenwerkaha! there is no autosave file now, so that is only created when something or someone changes the configs!21:49
gnarfaceand it's all working fine?21:49
hacksenwerkgnarface: yes21:49
gnarfacegood good21:49
n4dirnow tell us which music you play now ! :-)21:49
hacksenwerkProbably it uses just the default global config now21:49
n4dirperhaps rather head over to off-topic21:50
hacksenwerkn4dir: lol some relax music, it was the first I catched21:50
hacksenwerkyeah that's oft21:50
gnarfacehacksenwerk: we probably should have thought of this first. in general a very common fix for issues with upgrading between releases has to do with deleting the old user configs. i've seen this a lot especially with vlc, pidgin, gimp, and wine21:51
hacksenwerkgnarface: yes xD21:52
hacksenwerkBut sometimes you can learn something that way21:52
n4dirgnarface: well, it happens very often to not think of it21:52
n4dirvery often21:52
hacksenwerkBut it seems this time maybe not.... the /usr/share/cmus/rc and the autosave file differs a lot....21:53
hacksenwerkIt seems that in autosave theres is additional stuff, but not added from me, like how the colors are and so on... but I use the default theme...21:53
hacksenwerkalso it saves for example the aaa mode that is actual active. That is just a mode you can change with pressing m and it switches between artist, album and all, the repeat and the shuffle functions use it21:55
hacksenwerkBut probably it will only be written in that autosave when you press m for the first time after installing21:55
hacksenwerkI'll test it...21:55
hacksenwerkYes! now it has created an autosave file in .config/cmus21:57
hacksenwerkbut with a lot of stuff, not only the current aaa_mode xD21:57
hacksenwerkI'll differ this again to the backuped autsave file21:58
hacksenwerkThey have the same size 6.8kB21:58
hacksenwerkthe rc in /usr is only 3kB21:58
hacksenwerkOk got it I'll paste it wait a sec...21:59
hacksenwerkonly one alsa related line is different22:01
hacksenwerkset | set
hacksenwerkleft the new default one, roight the old one22:01
hacksenwerkthat's weird... alsamixer doesn't show PCM...22:01
n4dirpost a screenshot of your alsamixer, if you want22:02
n4dirif id was me i'd enjoy my success for a while though22:02
hacksenwerkOk check:22:02
hacksenwerkI use a usb soundcard here22:02
hacksenwerkit shows up in alsamixer22:02
hacksenwerkthe master there is named Speaker22:02
gnarfaceah! you have more than one sound device? alsamixer is probably not showing the USB one22:03
hacksenwerkif I change the soundcard with F622:03
n4dirthen you see PCM ?22:03
hacksenwerkand select HDA Intel it shows PCM22:03
gnarfacealsamixer -c 022:03
gnarfacealsamixer -c 122:03
gnarfacealsamixer -c 222:03
hacksenwerkgnarface: no the soundcard is visible22:03
n4dirhacksenwerk: i have that on one laptop too, i only see it if ... F6 yada yada22:04
hacksenwerkgnarface: yes the sub soundcard is 0 and that HDA Intel thing is 122:04
gnarfacealsamixer defaults to -c 0, but you can pass any index # of any audio device in the system (it'll even show webcams and tv capture cards)22:04
hacksenwerkBut why do I have the name of the master volume from that Intel and not the one from the usb sound card?22:05
gnarfacei think you're just confused22:05
gnarfacelaunch alsamixer with -c 122:05
hacksenwerkyes thats default: 122:06
hacksenwerkbut the usb sound card is default: 022:06
gnarfaceno, -c 0 is the default22:06
hacksenwerkbut why "Speaker" does not work in the cmus conifg xD22:06
hacksenwerkinstead PCM from default: 1 does work22:06
gnarfacehere, maybe you don't understand this: alsa just numbers them in whatever order they come up. "default" is always #0, but the hardware at #0 can change between reboots or on usb hotplug22:07
hacksenwerkI use that sound card, my headphones and my speaker are connected to it and only to it22:07
hacksenwerkgnarface: the usb soundcard is always plugged in, it's my default audio output22:07
gnarfacetrust me, the order can change even if it usually doesn't22:08
hacksenwerkIt was plugged in since I installed daedalus (even before)22:08
hacksenwerkgnarface: yeah sure22:08
hacksenwerkI just don't get that ^_^22:08
gnarfaceif you had more than one usb audio device you'd probably see them change order more often22:08
hacksenwerkI'm glad I have my sound back!22:08
hacksenwerkI have only one22:08
hacksenwerkI use a splitter behind the card to connect headphones and speakers at the same time22:09
hacksenwerkwhat's that in english...22:09
hacksenwerkthese 3,5mm22:09
gnarfaceonboard devices are usually very reliable in the order they come up, but usb devices tend to be more fluid22:09
hacksenwerkah wait I translate t be sure22:09
hacksenwerk3.5 mm (1⁄8 in) mono (TS)22:10
hacksenwerkhahaha ^^'22:11
n4diri think most just call it a "jack"22:11
hacksenwerkn4dir: lol okay xD22:11
hacksenwerkKlinke = jack22:11
n4direven ding, the de-en dict, translates Klinke as jack, but so does the website you linked22:11
hacksenwerkjack the Klinke22:11
n4dirha ha22:11
hacksenwerkI have a huge english dict here22:12
n4dirding usually does it for me, and is low on ressources. It fails too though22:12
gnarfacehacksenwerk: well, now that it's working, if it ever just stops working after a reboot or a usb hotplug action, just remember that it's probably just coming up at a different #22:12
hacksenwerkIt is also good as a weapon against burglars22:12
n4dirif you got a huge one no need for ding22:12
hacksenwerkgnarface: Yeah ok. Thank you! ^^22:12
hacksenwerkAnd what do we learn: It is better to never install pulseaudio, than uninstall it!!!22:13
hacksenwerkFunny: changing the volumes Master and PCM of HDA Intel does exactly nothing.22:15
hacksenwerkmuting...nothing happens22:16
hacksenwerkI still don't understand this, but maybe I didn't have to...22:16
gnarfacemaybe cmus is still doing something sneaky, like storing the config for one but auto-detecting to the other on the fly.22:18
hacksenwerkgnarface: yeah what ever. computer just do its own thing... again. x)22:18
gnarfacesomething about your testimony doesn't quite line up with standard expected alsa behavior, but i think you're very close to figuring it out22:18
hacksenwerk"Stupid human! Computer will rule the world!"22:19
hacksenwerkbut not as long I can oush the shutdown button22:19
hacksenwerkoh btw:22:19
gnarfacenah, i'm thinking in this case it might be cmus just trying to be too clever22:20
hacksenwerkIs that devuans default behaviour that it shutdown while holding the powerbutton for a while?22:20
n4dirwhat else would it do?22:20
n4dirin other words: i seem to have that for each distro22:20
gnarfacenot just devuan; that's standard behavior as per ATX power supply specs22:20
hacksenwerkhmm is that so...22:21
gnarface(though it's so very much the industry standard that many mobile devices that don't have ATX power supplies still can be shut off this way)22:21
n4dirhacksenwerk: to put it different -> what gave you the urge to hold down the power button? what did you expect? a pizza?22:21
hacksenwerkI thought I remember that I always had to configure it throught some power manager application22:21
hacksenwerkn4dir: Pizza! yes!22:21
hacksenwerkThe pizza button!22:22
gnarfacehacksenwerk: oh, you probably had to do extra setup that's set by default in debian now22:22
hacksenwerkwow! that would be the new hot thing!22:22
gnarfacethere used to be more bugs22:22
hacksenwerkgnarface: yes I think so.22:22
gnarfacesystemd was invented partially to re-introduce bugs we've long since solved22:22
gnarfacein this one case they didn't manage to sabotage us in the process22:22
n4dirgive it a bit of time.22:23
hacksenwerkI couldn't remember that behaviour working on tty but it does now....22:23
hacksenwerkSo that's not xfce4-power-manager something22:23
gnarfacewell the core component is acpid22:24
hacksenwerkThat thing doesn't start anyway on my new desktop lol22:24
gnarfacevarious scripts and tools may act as a frontend for it though in different contexts22:24
gnarfaceacpid is one of the things systemd replaced22:25
hacksenwerkHowever it is a good behaviour. I had some "frozen" moments, while I was trying some things and that power button helped me to shut down cleanly even all other inputs didn't react anymore.22:26
hacksenwerkIn the past I had to hold it long to hard power off the computer when such thing happens... that's not good.22:26
n4diri have that all the time, the only reason i know poweroff button needs to be hold for a while22:27
n4dirlet me quickly ask something: If i want to replace sysv with runit, i do apt-get install runit, and then do init=/path/initsystem in grub cmdline22:28
hacksenwerkn4dir: but do your computer than do a clean shutdown?22:28
n4diri can put that in /etc/default/grub too?22:29
n4dirhacksenwerk: i never had problems, like a needed fsck, so it seems to work22:29
n4dirthey are crap PCs, so no harm i would suffer from, if it goes south22:29
n4dirthey freeze all the time for a reason :-)22:29
hacksenwerkbut i think it's not good for a hdd too22:30
n4diryeah, i think so22:30
hacksenwerkbetter clean parking that head and so on22:30
n4diri wait as long i can stand it. 10 minutes or so22:30
hacksenwerkWhy do your machines freeze so much?22:31
gnarfacen4dir: i got a tip for you: try a UPS22:31
hacksenwerkThat shouldn't the normal behaviour...22:31
n4dirthey are from trash, stoneage, so on, hacksenwerk22:31
n4dirgnarface: i don't know what a UPS is, let me check22:31
hacksenwerkThe stoneage was great22:31
hacksenwerkThey had rubber streets and stone wheels. That's just genius!22:32
gnarfacen4dir: UPS, a good one, is a surge-suppressing, line-conditioning, auto-failover, battery back-up22:32
n4dirah. thanks22:32
gnarfacen4dir: what i'm hypothesizing is that your real issue is dirty power22:32
n4diri am not much of a technic-interested guy22:32
n4diroh, that might be. I live in a stoneage apartment too, and mainly electricity looks ... weird22:33
gnarface(as a resident of California i've had to put all my machines on UPSes just to keep them on)22:33
gnarface(this started... about 20 years ago)22:33
n4dirgnarface: by any chance, you know how to replace sysv with runit?22:33
gnarfaceno, not really, only in theory. you should be able to just install a couple packages22:34
gnarfacesomeone else was a runit user here though just a couple days ago weren't they?22:34
n4dirdamn it. I will figure it out, but searchterms lead to other things22:34
n4diryeah, that is how i came up with the idea22:35
n4diri have runit on another PC, but don't remember how to replace22:35
n4dirit sure is easy22:35
gnarfacewhat does it want to remove if you just try to install the runit package?22:35
n4diri think if you install it nothing happens. You only have to tell grub to use it22:36
n4diri want it in /etc/default/grub, not from grubs command line22:36
gnarfacei think you want these too: runit-helper runit-init runit-run runit-services22:36
n4diryup, did it with apt-get install -s runit, nothing to be removed, it seems22:37
hacksenwerkIs any of the sysinit alternatives on the way to replace it by default?22:37
n4dirgnarface: the other ones you mentioned seem to be dependencies, not that sure, but it is close, it seems. long day, tired, so on22:38
hacksenwerkI never tried one of them22:38
gnarfacehacksenwerk: no, though it would more likely be openrc not runit if any did.22:38
n4dirit is less exciting than you expect. on a daily usage22:38
gnarfacehacksenwerk: openrc and runit are both very usable in their current states, it's just that none of us know how to use them22:39
gnarfacenot literally none of us, as i mentioned there's a few of them that come through occasionally, but sysv is very entrenched amongst us regulars22:39
hacksenwerkgnarface: What? Do they lack of documentation? o_022:39
n4dirwith runit you can use sysv-rc-conf, with openrc perhaps too22:40
gnarfacehacksenwerk: nah, not like that. just lack of interest.22:40
hacksenwerkgnarface: lol22:40
hacksenwerkNever stop a running sysv..ehm system22:40
n4dirhacksenwerk: when debian went systemd i tried gentoo with openrc, void with runit iirc and Slackware with whatever it uses22:40
n4dirthe method to enable and disable and start and stop services is different, but on a daily usage, i for one see no difference22:41
n4dirbecause you usually don't fiddle with the init system all the time22:41
gnarfacei used openrc on gentoo too. it's different there compared to debian's copy that we have, which relies on sysv scripts22:42
gnarfacethat's the part that's confusing to me, ironically22:42
gnarfaceso for devuan systems it's easier for me to just stick with sysv because i already learned it that way22:43
gnarfacebut people do successfully get openrc and runit and other stuff (even s6) working in here all the time... then they just never stick around to help anyone else22:44
n4dirif i install it right away it just works22:44
n4dirnot sure if i tried openrc too, in the past, probably yes22:45
hacksenwerkOk I go to sleep. Have a nice time. See you. :)22:55
n4dirSo: just installing runit-init will remove a bunch of sysv packages, and the next reboot you will have runit as the init system23:23
n4dirhow to keep sysv but only try runit is still beyond me, the webresults also give nothing23:23
gnarfacethere might not be a way without virtualization23:24
n4diri recall it to be really easy. just install it, then tell grub init=/sbin/your_choosen_init23:25
n4dirbut that is very long ago23:25
n4dirthe bad news is that runit-init will remove refractainstaller and snapshot-gui, will leave *base though23:25
n4diranyway, if ever someone asks, you can easily install and then remove what else you used, how to do it both and select via grub is beyond me23:26
n4diras a safety-net, i mean. Else there is not much point in having two init systems installed23:28

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