libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2023-05-24

AfdalQStandardPaths: wrong permissions on runtime directory /run/user/1000, 0755 instead of 070006:07
AfdalQt: Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed06:07
AfdalCan someone tell me why flatpak cares about this06:07
Afdalwhy a particular flatpak program would care about this*06:08
AfdalI changed the permissions on /run/user/1000 (yeah, not a smart move I know) and it still spat out the same error06:09
AfdalWas I supposed to run a flatpak intall operation with sudo perhaps...06:11
AfdalNone of my other flatpak programs spit out this weird error06:12
brocashelmflatpaks are a pain to manage, snaps even more so06:37
brocashelmare you trying to install software not available on the official repos?06:38
Centurion_Danflatpaks and snaps are all evil, and mostly not needed except in extremely oddball situations where it is the only option for proprietary shit.06:41
Centurion_DanAfdal: Are you using elogind?  It pretty much is required these days for anything that interacts with session management.06:42
Afdalno, never heard of elogind06:43
brocashelmit's mostly kde and gnome packages that would require (e)logind; there's also a package called dummy-logind if you just want something installed in place of a running daemon06:43
AfdalI'm using yet-another game/emulator that can't be arsed to put together a proper .deb06:44
Afdaland is trying to funnel it through craphub -_-06:44
Afdalthat's the right word06:44
brocashelmwhat's the software?06:44
Afdalflathub is for laundering laziness06:44
Afdalan emulator06:44
brocashelmoh, a mupen64 fork?06:45
Afdalmupen64plus fork06:45
AfdalAre you familiar with mupen6406:45
AfdalHonestly the only reason I'm trying this out is because at the moment I'm looking for ways to do N64 input replays on Linux06:46
Afdalbut I can't get the original mupen64 to work06:46
brocashelmyes, i have mupen64plus installed06:46
Afdalmupen64plus does not support input replays06:46
Afdalso it seems06:46
brocashelmhow about mednafen?06:46
AfdalHoping this fork might be different06:46
AfdalDoes Mednafen even do N64 emulation?06:47
AfdalI though PS1 was the only type of that generation it did06:47
AfdalNot a fan of multisystem stuff tbh06:47
Afdalunless it's MAME06:47
brocashelmhmmm, could've sworn it would support n64 (it doesn't)06:47
AfdalI really only use Mednafen for Genesis netplay06:47
Afdalsince nothing else seems to be decent in that area06:48
brocashelmonly other one like that is retroarch, but that might not be of any use06:48
AfdalIt's actually quite surprising to me how few N64 emulators support input recordings.  Especially given the number that attempt to implement netplay.  Input recording/playback and netplay systems usually go hand-in-hand together.06:49
brocashelmheh, the AUR has it:
brocashelmmaybe try compiling the software, then?06:50
AfdalYeah I could give it go06:50
brocashelmand then do a RFP to debian06:50
brocashelm(request for packaging)06:51
AfdalThough I hear "cloud-based" in the netplay description.  Which to me usually signals a nasty mess of dependencies06:51
Centurion_DanAfdal: did you try cen64?  It's available in Devuan06:52
AfdalI have not tried that one06:52
Afdalisn't that a really old emulator tho06:52
AfdalI'm surprised if that's there in the repos but the original mupen64 is not06:52
brocashelmi'm using daedalus and see it in the repo06:53
AfdalNot mupen64plus?06:53
Afdaloh no, it seems cen64 is rather new actually.  "Cycle-accurate" emulator AKA Hope You Have a Supercomputer06:54
brocashelmhow about ares?06:54
brocashelmthat one appears to do n64 emu06:54
Afdalnever hearda it :o06:55
brocashelmrelated to higan/bsnes06:55
Afdaloh lol, so more supercomputer nonsense06:55
AfdalAnyway umm, this flatpak installer added like 250MB of KDE dependencies I don't need, and simply removing the main program doesn't seem to get rid of this.  This is one of the things I really hate about flatpaks >:I06:56
AfdalAnyone know how to get rid of this extra junk?06:56
Afdalah, aha06:57
Afdalflatpak remove --unused06:57
Afdalsimple64 appears to have zero compiling documentation ಠ-ಠ06:58
brocashelmpretty suspect if you ask me07:00
brocashelmall you get from them is a flatpak if you're a penguin operating system user07:00
brocashelmbut yeah, should at least give a build recipe for those who want choice07:01
Afdal>    cp "${base_dir}/simple64-gui/discord/" "${install_dir}"07:10
Afdalgah, need a newer version of cmake07:12
AfdalHow do I grab something off a newer Devuan repo again...07:13
AfdalAh, there's newer versions in backports07:21
AfdalApparently I have cmake installed somewhere and available for terminal commands, but not from apt07:26
AfdalCan someone help me get rid of this old version...07:26
AfdalI don't remember doing any sort of weird cmake installation hijinks07:30
Afdalso why is there a ~/.local/bin/cmake directory...07:30
AfdalIs Devuan setup like this by default???07:30
AfdalThen again, maybe there were some weird cmake installation hijinks I did >.>07:31
AfdalMaybe something needed a special snowflake version and I forget all about it07:32
AlexLikeRock ~/.local/   its yout HOME07:37
AfdalYeah I know07:37
AlexLikeRockecample:  /home/alexlikerock/.local07:37
AfdalWould anyone familiar with cmake happen to know what you're supposed to do when it's missing a required cmake module?07:47
AlexLikeRockwhitch one _?07:47
AlexLikeRockthe name07:47
AfdalI don't see an apt package that seems to correspond to this07:48
gnarfacedoes it complain about a specific missing file?07:48
Afdal"A required package was not found"07:48
gnarfacelast time cmake was missing something for me i think i just created an empty file where it was complaining about one missing07:49
Afdalhmm, the file FindPkgConfig.cmake exists, actually07:50
Afdalmaybe it needs to be updated or something07:50
gnarfacemake sure it's in the right cmake prefix; when i discovered this, i got the idea from my old cmake prefix where it still was07:50
gnarface(this suggests i had figure it out once before and then forgotten)07:51
AfdalWell, I have both a /usr/share/cmake/ and a /usr/share/cmake-3.25/07:52
AfdalThe former doesn't have much in it anymore07:52
Afdaland /cmake-3.25/ appears to be what this build script is looking in07:52
AfdalSo I think it's in the right directly07:52
gnarfaceas long as you're sure07:52
AfdalCMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.25/Modules/FindPkgConfig.cmake:607 (message):07:53
Afdal  A required package was not found07:53
AfdalCall Stack (most recent call first):07:53
Afdal  /usr/share/cmake-3.25/Modules/FindPkgConfig.cmake:829 (_pkg_check_modules_internal)07:53
Afdal  CMakeLists.txt:45 (pkg_check_modules)07:53
Afdalthat's the full error07:53
gnarfaceyea, looks familiar. when this happened to me, i'm not sure it was FinePkgConfig, but it was one of those cmake files07:54
AfdalThat error tells me that it found the .cmake file fine, but ran into a stumbling block in instructions within it07:55
gnarfaceis there anything in it?07:55
Afdalit's a long script07:55
gnarfacesee, when it happened to me, i found an empty file in /usr/share/cmake-3.23 or /usr/share/cmake-3.22 or something like that, misread it as cmake-3.25 several times in a row, then eventually realized i had two cmake-3.2* directories, but one was unpackaged cruft07:56
gnarfaceso i copied the empty file from the unpackaged cruft directory into my current one and it worked07:56
gnarfacethat error is in the same format and really seems to suggest it's not finding the file at all07:57
AfdalWell, I do have an older /usr/share/cmake/ directory, presumably unpackaged cruft07:58
Afdalbut that one doesn't have any modules in it07:58
AfdalPlus this error is clearly referencing line numbers in FindPkgConfig.cmake08:00
Afdalsuggesting it's definitely finding and reading the file properly08:00
AfdalUnless I'm reading the error wrong and it's not referencing a problem with FindPkgConfig.cmake at all08:01
AfdalWhich uh, I might be lol08:02
Afdaloh okay, I was :)08:06
AfdalThe error was from not finding a different package, cmake was just telling me what script spat out the error >.>08:07
AfdalBlegh, a Qt6 dependency08:09
Afdalwhich of these scores of Qt6 packages do I need -_-08:09
AfdalWhat provides qt6config.make or qt6-config.make :/08:12
AlexLikeRockits a hard job compile08:26
AfdalIt always seems like I have more trouble compiling stuff with cmake than regular make08:27
Afdalisn't this supposed to make things easier...08:27
Afdalerr, cmake over a .configure script08:30
Afdalwhatever cmake is supposed to replace...08:30
hacksenwerkgnarface: It happend what you told me, alsa soundcards have switched HDA Intel is now 0 and that usb drive is now 1. :)11:53
hacksenwerkgnarface: but now I have no sound at all on all applications, no matter how high the volumes of any soundcard. I ran the speakertest and can't hear anything...12:00
hacksenwerkYesterday before I went to sleep the sound was working. They only things I changed since then where a apt upgrade of some packages (can paste them if you want, but I can't see no alsa stuff there) and install the packages unzip and fcrackzip12:16
hacksenwerkOk I tested if the speakers and headphone is working by unplug the jack from the usb soundcard and plug it to the computer jack and now I have sound12:17
hacksenwerkSo I think that I have to change that order the soundcards are reconized, to make that usb soundcard the default again?12:18
onefangUse the device names instead of relying on them coming up in any fixed order.  I think someone mentioned that already.12:24
onefang should help.12:26
hacksenwerkonefang: yeah seems like I need to use a config file12:28
hacksenwerkok... something like defaults.pcm.card 1 wont work for me, cause the cards switching13:33
onefangThat's why you use names.  I have things like "card ALC1220VBDT"  That being the name of one of the two sound chips on my motherboard.13:36
hacksenwerkI think that is a bug and should get fixed that alsa isn't able to select the card I'm actually using. That shouldn't be outsourced to the user...15:30
djphhacksenwerk: wdym alsa can't select the card?15:31
hacksenwerkdjph: Not by itself as it seems...15:32
djphhacksenwerk: what do you _mean_ here?15:32
hacksenwerkIt switches the device order you can see in alsamixer when pressing F6, after a reboot.15:33
djphyes, device enumeration order (especially if USB is involved) is not static.15:33
hacksenwerkI can select card 0 or 1, but alsa should save the name of the card instead of these numbers...15:34
djphWhich is why we have "enp0s1" now instead of "eth0".15:34
djphSo then create the configuration file with the names?15:34
hacksenwerkdjph: Yeah... I didn't come to this... I turned on my computer today to listen to some music and bam I have to struggle again with some issue... That got on my nerves...15:35
hacksenwerkI don't want to defend pulseaudio here (I removed it because I wanted to get rid of it), but there (in pavucontrol) I selected that usb sound card _once_ and it was always the default sound card pulse was using, no matter how often I had reboot my computer...15:37
hacksenwerkI don't get wha alsa doesn't behave the same in that way...15:37
debdogdepening on hardware the cards might have different names. "aplay -l" will tell you, hacksenwerk15:37
hacksenwerkdebdog: yes sure they have different names15:38
debdogon my laptop I have: card 0: HDMI [...] and card 1: PCH15:38
debdogalsa sometimes changes the numbers because depending which card is availble first during boot.15:39
hacksenwerkI mean I like to stay on the default config a program comes with (few exceptions, ssh, firefox etc).15:40
hacksenwerkdebdog: yeah I know that since gnarface told me already15:40
debdogyou said "why" :D15:40
hacksenwerkThat's why it should "remember" the actual device and not that number...15:40
djphhacksenwerk: so then write the configuration file to _DO_ that15:41
hacksenwerkdjph: I know what I have to do. I'm complaining at the moment about that behaviour of alsa.15:41
hacksenwerkI don't get why the devs don't change that by default.15:42
hacksenwerkSound should just always work out of the box, without any confiuration.15:42
debdogsomehthing like "defaults.pcm.!card PCH" (PCH is name of the device on my desktop pc, "card 0: PCH")15:42
hacksenwerkYeah... will test that.. later15:42
djphhacksenwerk: the default that is guaranteed to work is to tell alsa to look for "card0"15:43
debdoghacksenwerk: it did (under ordianry circumstances) before parallel booting was introduced15:43
onefangIn my case there's TWO sound chips on the mother board.  SO which one should be the default?  I have to tell it which one I want to be the default, it can't read my mind.15:44
djphhacksenwerk: so if you don't create your system-custom config (i.e. "look for ... whtever name")15:44
onefangNot to mention the SIX sound devices on my four output graphics card.  lol15:44
hacksenwerkPhew... that's not a default hardware that comes with more than one soundchip...15:45
onefangI also have two USB sound devices, but at least that's my fault.  B-)15:45
debdogunfortunately it is default. the std. analogue and "new" HDMI one.15:46
hacksenwerkHow about "Hey alsa use that sound card my jack is connected to"? I don't know, it is just another thing on my list hoe computers fuck up humans.15:46
djphonefang: I'm just glad I only have to fight with "no dammit, use the [3.5mm] microphone"15:46
onefangNot all the jacks inform the computer if thing are plugged into them.15:46
hacksenwerkonefang: yeah15:46
hacksenwerkBut such things should be default, instead of building cpus with now a hundres billion transistors more...15:47
djphmost 3.5mm setups are just a "reroute the signal, the soundcard's none the wiser"15:47
djphOnly ones I've seen that "inform" the sound chip in any manner are those combined mic/headphone in a single jack. (and the PC still doesn't autoswitch to headset mic for whatever dumb reason)15:50
hacksenwerkdjph: i have a jack on my laptop, a jack on the docking station my laptop is connected to and a jack on that usb sound card.15:52
djphyes ...15:53
hacksenwerkBut only one has a pluged in jack: the usb sound card15:53
hacksenwerkbehind that I just use a splitter15:53
hacksenwerkthat usb sound card is even louder than the internal...15:53
djphand yet, as already mentioned, depending on how that "jack" is implemented, the sound chip itself may not even KNOW something was plugged into it.15:54
hacksenwerkbut I _told_ it! >:(15:54
hacksenwerkbut it doesn't response to my babbling...15:54
hacksenwerksound hardware that can not hear... weird15:55
djphit's almost as if analog outputs (inputs) can simply break a wire and still work exactly as if nothing happened.15:56
FatPhilThe digital domain's at least as messed up. I remember a talk by our sound guru who documented all the different modes the sound chip we were using could be configured, and a fundamental bug with each and every single one of those modes.16:28
djphhacksenwerk: honestly it sounds like you're expecting analog to be "smart", when in fact it simply isn't that way16:29
FatPhilalso - first verify the problem also exists without the splitter. If there's some impedence checking, perhaps the splitter's disrupting how the levels settle, and thus jack detection.16:32
hacksenwerkdjph: I expect to tell alsa "Here this is my sound card, use it. Always." And it is doing it like pulsaudio16:33
hacksenwerkFatPhil: nah that has nothing to do with the splitter16:33
djphhacksenwerk: you can do that.16:33
djphhacksenwerk: you just have to ... y'know ... set the config16:33
hacksenwerkdjph: Yes, but not via alsamixer16:33
hacksenwerkAnd _that's_ what I'm complaining about16:34
djphso then create the (IIRC) /etc/asound.state file (else the default in /usr/share is used)16:34
djphwell, if I'm remembering how to globally configure alsa.  It's been a few years.16:35
hacksenwerkdjph: I have the tutorial pages open here...16:35
hacksenwerkI just want to have some button in alsamixer.16:35
djphthre's no such button16:35
hacksenwerkdjph: yeah that's the problem :)16:36
hacksenwerkin pavucontrol there is.16:36
hacksenwerkpush it, forget it.16:36
djphalthough I belive thre's a way to export the current state (alsactl?)16:37
hacksenwerkThat ssh or other sensible stuff needs to be configured, even throught text files, that is not a problem. But sound?16:37
djphwhy *shouldn't* sound need "personal configuration" ?16:38
hacksenwerkBecause it is basic stuf that should run plug and play, out of the box, without doing anything specific.16:39
djphbut it does.16:39
hacksenwerkWhy do I use an operating system, if it does not handle that by default in a way it works?16:39
hacksenwerkyes but not if you have more than one soundcard :)16:40
hacksenwerkdjph: It doesn't matter, this is the wrong place to complain about alsa...16:41
hacksenwerkI will try that configuartion later and see if it will work the next reboots...16:41
djphhacksenwerk: if you have more than one, then you have to configure things to your personal desires.  This is not something that should surprise anyone16:41
djphand yet, you seem surprised at this.16:42
hacksenwerkdjph: I don't know why you are derailing from the fact that I can click _once_ one button in pavucontrol to select a sound card and it always uses that sound card I selected no matter how often I reboot my computer and alsa just can not have this feature.16:45
hacksenwerkIt would not hurt, it would not bloat alsa etc..16:45
hacksenwerkBut as I said nevermind.16:46
onefangWe have already covered "how to make it work", bitching about it is #devuan-offtopic.16:46
hacksenwerkThat's not bitching, bitching is how alsa handles that. :P16:48
djphbut I wasn't derail... *sigh*16:50
djphtwo tools do things differently, news at 1116:51
djph(sorry, -OT, I know)16:51
djphI'm probably just blind, but where again is the info for when testing may move to stable?16:56
AfdalI'm a dumbo, someone remind me how to safely switch my repo to a newer one for a single piece of software and then switch back again23:26
gnarfaceAfdal: there's no 100% safe way to do that, you're supposed to use the backports repo23:27
AfdalThe thing I want isn't on backports ;_;23:27
gnarfaceoh, well then the recommended approach is to build it yourself, but i can understand not wanting to go that far23:27
AfdalI considered that but this is a rather large complicated piece of software23:28
gnarfaceyea, in that case the backport process usually proves itself to be worse than just upgrading to the release it's from23:28
n4dirwhich software is it?23:28
gnarfacealternately though, you can just run the next release in a chroot or a VM of some sort, that's safe.23:28
AfdalIs Daedalus = testing and Ceres = unstable23:29
Afdalor is it reversed23:29
AfdalI forget23:29
gnarfaceno you have that right23:29
n4dirperhaps it is in AV Linux or Librazik repos23:29
AfdalI need to grab this from Daedalus...23:29
n4dirwhich version?23:29
gnarfacedaedalus is current testing but it'll be stable this year probably23:29
AfdalI need v27 at minimum, Daedalus is on v2923:30
AfdalChimaera only has v2623:30
n4dirnot in librazik, it seems23:30
AfdalI've been considering switching my main Devuan to a testing release for some now actually, I'm tired of headaches with old software like this23:31
gnarfaceAfdal: well, i'll help you try to build it, or run it in a VM or chroot. installing the daedalus version in stable is easy, just not recommended because it might still not work, or worse, it might work mostly but randomly crash stuff23:31
gnarfaceAfdal: if you want to install a package from daedalus just alter your /etc/apt/sources.list, run "apt-get update" once, then install the package, then change your sources.list back and run "apt-get update" once more just for good measure, but be aware that this may make a mess you can't clean up without reinstalling23:32
n4dirthey have a flathub version, if that helps23:32
Afdalwhat's the uh23:32
Afdaldry run equivalent command for apt23:32
AfdalSo I can see what this is gonna do before it does it23:32
n4diryou mean -s ? like simulate?23:33
gnarfacei think it's "-s" for simulated23:33
gnarfaceAfdal: yea, it's -s23:33
gnarfaceAfdal: to be honest though, if you're considering trying out daedalus, now is just about the best time to do so23:33
gnarfaceAfdal: either way i'd recommend making a backup first before you do something rash23:34
AfdalThis is going to end up updating a lot of dependencies...23:34
gnarfaceyea, that's a red flag23:34
gnarfacein that situation you usually find out that whether you install the package directly or build it yourself, after you've handled all the dependencies you might as well have just upgraded23:35
gnarface(and usually this is also why it's not in backports)23:35
n4diri'd probably just upgrade too23:35
n4dirlibrazik also has lots of newer versions for audio stuff. There should be a reason they dont have it23:36
gnarfacei'd upgrade too but would recommend trying it in a vm or chroot to others, out of an abundance of caution23:36
n4dirbut try it and see23:36
n4dirAfdal: the MX Linux community repos have it at higher version23:38
AfdalI don't know why I would want to make a giant VM or chroot with 10s of gigabytes of stuff just to test this >:(23:38
gnarfaceAfdal: realistically you'd probably only burn 2-5GB23:39
AfdalHow does MX Linux relate to Devuan23:39
AfdalIs it a smart idea to grab something from their repos...23:39
* gnarface sighs23:39
AfdalI imagine I would need to update my libraries all the same23:39
n4dirthey usually do a good and solid job.23:39
n4diror did23:40
gnarfaceit's still highly hazard prone, mixing distros like that23:40
AfdalWould I need to update my libraries all the same of I compiled this myself?23:41
AfdalIf so, what is the actual advantage of compiling?23:41
gnarfacethe actual advantage of compiling is it won't randomly crash or have other unexpected behaviors that might arise from forcing it to use the wrong versions of stuff23:42
gnarfacebut you're absolutely right that you may still have to recursively backport all the dependencies too23:42
AfdalI guess these dependencies listed on Daedalus may not be hard dependencies of the program itself23:42
Afdalit's just what it was compiled to target23:43
gnarfaceso you have to try to build it to find out23:43
Afdalwell fine, I guess I'll try compiling it23:43
Afdalthis might be tricky...23:43
gnarfaceand maybe minor alterations to the code can make it work again with the older versions if it won't by default23:43
n4dircould get the source from MX to look how they did it, i guess/hope23:44
AfdalYou know the whole reason I'm doing this is rather silly.  For some baffling reason OBS Studio doesn't allow you to choose your audio source on a per-program basis, instead you need a plugin to handle that, and the plugin requires a newer version.  And yet, if I do an audio capture with ffmpeg from terminal, or use one of several other capture programs that are just GUIs for the same terminal operation, it's actually trivial to grab the23:45
Afdalright pulse/alsa/whatever audio sink.23:45
gnarfaceso usually what i go by, is if there's more than 2 or 3 dependencies i need to backport recursively and one of those dependencies is libc itself, then i just upgrade instead (from experience, after being paid to backport most of wheezy into squeeze)23:46
gnarface(i said it was dumb the whole time. the client, whose business was a tax dodge anyway and didn't last the rest of the year, didn't see any sense until the next time we tried to upgrade)23:47
n4dirdepending when daedalus will become stable with debian making the next stable in a few days you could also just wait23:48
Afdal libqt6svg6-dev : Depends: libqt6svg6 (= 6.3.1-2~bpo11+1) but 6.4.2-2~bpo11+1 is to be installed23:51
AfdalWhat is this nonsense here23:51
Afdalis this a conflict between main and backports or something?23:52
AfdalNo, looks like both the package and its dependency are things I'm trying to grab off backports...23:53
gnarfaceAfdal: looks like you already had backports installed and enabled?23:53
AfdalIs there a broken package-dependency relationship on backports then?23:53
gnarfacethe "bpo**" string itself often causes a version conflict with newer versions23:54
gnarfaceknown issue, not new, not specific to devuan23:54
gnarfacebackport packages block upgrades23:54
gnarfacethat's one reason you're strongly recommended not to just "apt-get upgrade" your whole system from backports23:55
AfdalIt seems that backports has v6.4.2-2~bpo11+1 of libqt6svg6 and v6.3.1-2~bpo11+1 of libqt6svg6-dev23:55
gnarfaceit's very usual for you to have to manually purge or force upgrade of backported packages when updating to the next release23:55
AfdalWhat can I do about this...23:56
gnarface(if you make your own you can version them more cleverly so that doesn't happen, but then you break debian naming conventions)23:56
gnarfacehow many bpo11 packages you got? i'd just manually downgrade them if it's less than 2023:57
Afdalno idea23:57
gnarfacedpkg -l |grep bpo23:57
Afdalabout 3523:58
Afdalmost of them are for one program though, which I'm not worried about right now23:58
Afdalthe important bpo stuff is cmake and qt623:59

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