libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2023-06-02

sfoxhey what are the runlevels on devuan?02:19
sfoxi typed runlevel and the answer is N 202:19
sfoxi think 3 is multiuser and some higher number is graphical mode right?02:19
sfox2 seems low for a normal runlevel02:19
gnarfacesfox: it's not anything like redhat's use of runlevels. basically everything is just in runlevel 202:19
sfoxhow can i check if a service is in a runlevel 2?02:20
gnarface(this is the same as with debian)02:20
sfoxls -l /etc/rc2.d ?02:20
gnarfaceif you're using sysvinit yea that should work02:20
sfoxis there a tool to check all runlevels for a particular service and report?02:20
gnarfacesysv-rc-conf is the only one that comes to mind but there might be others02:21
sfoxwhat package is that in? it's not in $PATH for me02:22
gnarfacepackage of the same name02:22
gnarfacenot installed by default02:22
gnarfacenote that also if your /etc/init.d/ script filename for the service doesn't end with ".sh" the startup/shutdown orders are secondarily controlled by the LSB headers inside the script itself (they look like comments to the script but they're parsed by init)02:23
gnarfaceno problem02:24
sfoxwhere can I find some documentation on this what what runlevels mean what?02:24
sfoxdebian documentation is hard to look through since it's mostly systemd specific now02:24
gnarfacenone of the behaviors have changed since debian wheezy so if you can't find the LSB stuff on their wiki anymore try checking on archive.org02:24
gnarfaceit's fairly self-explanatory if you stare at them a little bit though02:24
gnarfacethat's runlevel stuff but no mention of the LSB behavior there02:25
sfox" 2 through 5 (multiuser modes)"02:25
gnarfaceyea, none of the stock stuff uses anything but 2 though. 3, 4, and 5 are basically reserved for whatever you want02:25
gnarfacesfox, Xenguy: here, still on their wiki just marked deprecated:
sfoxok thanks.02:27
gnarfacethe only real big problem with these is that if you customize them heavily the package manager may still clobber your changes, so keep a backup of /etc/init.d/ if you start doing that02:27
sfoxthat's the information i was wondering about02:27
gnarfaceand unlike it says in that RunLevel wiki page, /etc/inittab is still used here02:28
sfoxwow, sysv-rc-conf is nice02:29
sfoxi can't believe i haven't used this before and have just been using chkconfig all these years02:29
gnarfaceso, also a helpful clarification i'm not sure is mentioned on there: i found that the /etc/rc?.d/ start links can be overridden by the LSB headers, but the kill links will override LSB headers02:30
sfoxcan a system V init run things in parallel to improve boot speeds?02:30
sfoxI don't think it does that by default02:31
gnarfaceyes it does, and it actually had that feature before systemd was even being talked about02:31
gnarfacethat's what these LSB things are for actually02:31
gnarfaceinformation to the contrary is paid FUD02:31
gnarfaceliteral actually commercially propagated lies02:31
sfoxi inferred parallelization from LSB, but I never saw how to turn that feature on anymore02:32
gnarfaceyea it's been on since like lenny or squeeze02:32
sfoxoh so I don't need to set anything02:32
gnarfacenope, it's already doing it02:32
gnarfaceand if you benchmark you'll find it actually does it faster than systemd in most cases02:32
gnarfaceso one of their primary selling points, about boot speed, was itself a paper-thin lie02:33
sfoxThat's really concerning gnarface02:33
gnarfaceoh, tangentially, some services have a config chunk in /etc/default/ that contains configuration variables, often including a last-word "enable/disable" order02:34
gnarfacethough usually it's on by default, you should always check there first if you want to disable something02:34
gnarfaceor add some non-standard command-line parameters to the daemon (as it's often used)02:35
gnarfacesfox: heh, yes it's very concerning, and that's why we're all here.02:36
sfoxI'm afraid I myself may at some point parroted that lie before having heard it02:37
gnarfacewell, we've all been taken in by some sort of deception at one time or another. what really matters is how you react when you're exposed to the truth.02:39
gnarfacebut we don't bitch about it in here. this channel is reserved for support issues. bitching goes to #devuan-offtopic02:39
rwpI am disappointed that chkconfig was removed from the Debian repositories. Though the command line syntax of it was horrid.05:19
brocashelmwhat replaced it?05:57
rwpIn Debian it was replaced with systemd.06:00
rwpI keep a copy of the last version and put it in /usr/local/sbin/chkconfig so that I can continue to use it.06:00
tom-1Hello . I would appreciate any advice or help. Can you please tell me what command in the terminal can I know what font I am using now? Not a list of fonts, but which one am I currently using?10:46
phoggusing where? In the terminal?11:13
brocashelmquickest way i know is using neofetch (check Terminal Font)11:20
onefangGUI terminals often have a settings menu for setting the font, and would show you the current font.  Non GUI terminals would use whatever the system font is, can't recall off the top of my head what /etc file that is set in.11:43
djphonefang: I don't remember the file, but the debian (and derivative) TTYs can be tweaked with 'dpkg-reconfigure console-setup'12:02
djphoh, I've got an /etc/default/console-setup here ...12:03
onefangThat sounds like it.12:14
n4dirthere is console-setup and console-data, i always forget which does what12:18
n4dirone is installed per default, iirc, the other not, so if feature x is missing, it usually is the one not installed, in my case12:19
hacksenwerkHello. I added somed lines at the bottom of /etc/rc.local to reset the tty after boot and show some text with echo.12:39
hacksenwerkI also want to show a list of all users available on the system with: users | sed 's/ /\n/g12:40
hacksenwerkBut that doesn't work.12:40
hacksenwerkProbably because no one is logged in already to run that command12:40
hacksenwerkIs there a other way to display a list of all users before login?12:40
hacksenwerkOh weird, fater login in that users command show not only user1 and root, it shows user1 user1 user1 root12:43
hacksenwerkHmm.. ah nevermind, I will just echo the usernames then. ^^12:44
onefangAre things being printed on screen, then quickly replaced by login screens?  That's why I disable logins on TTY1 and just leave it for boot and log messages.12:45
hacksenwerkonefang: yes but I run just the reset command in /et/rc.local (you can use also clear)12:45
hacksenwerkrwp: I marked all packages that apt autoremove --purge libelogind-compat wants to remove too, as manually installed, but some are still there when I run that remove command again.. :(12:52
hacksenwerkLike cmus, smartmontools, the whole xserver and so on.12:52
hacksenwerkFuck this ISP!12:53
hacksenwerkThey should get their servers ddosed to death >:(12:54
hacksenwerkMy internet connection is more unstable than fsmithred satelite internet...12:54
hacksenwerkapt-cache rdepends libelogind-compat lists only libpam-elogind and that one is not installed on my system.12:55
hacksenwerkwtf?! apt autoremove --purge libelogind-compat wants also take packages like dmeventd and lvm2 with it! o_012:57
hacksenwerkSeems like I am in a situation where "install the whole system again" would be a good solution.13:03
hacksenwerkAnd change to some other isp!13:04
u-amarsh04hacksenwerk I always find aptitude to be useful in exploring hypotheticals of package addition and removal14:35
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: But that's just a frontend of apt and apt is already a frontend for dpkg...14:37
Wonkaoh yes, best package management experience I had yet14:37
hacksenwerkI tried aptitude long time ago and I don't like it.14:38
hacksenwerkThat problem should be solveable without an additional frontend to dpkg imho.14:38
Wonkaone can surely construct a very very long command line...14:39
Wonkain an iterative process...14:39
u-amarsh04aptitude has control-u for undo or you can control-c out of it14:39
Wonkaor one could use aptitude and do essentially the same in a TUI14:39
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: nah.. nothing I would use.14:39
u-amarsh04I've just grown with aptitude, and just use dpkg for a few things like installing locally built kernels14:40
hacksenwerkMy undo is done by making backups of the actual package list and do a rollback with it if I have to.14:40
u-amarsh04I've had a bit of pain like that when installing a bundle of package upgrades together leaves undesirable results and I need to reinstall older versions14:42
hacksenwerkAnyway I think I will just reinstall devuan, this time without any desktop stuff, so elogin_foobar should stay away from my system in the first place.14:42
u-amarsh04I haven't had to reinstall an operating system my other pc since 2004 - started with Debian and migrated to new hardware and moved to Devuan without ever reinstalling14:43
Wonkau-amarsh04: I use "apt install ./linux-image-....deb" since dpkg started nagging me to do that...14:43
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: :)14:44
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: To me it seems something is broken here because of that elogind stuff and I don't like to mess arround with fixing it, while this process takes hours of my precious lifetime again... Reinstall is done in minutes.14:45
hacksenwerkBut I will not doing it today, maybe next week or so.14:46
u-amarsh04ah, ok14:46
u-amarsh04I do use elogind myself14:47
hacksenwerkI installed programs like cmus for example first, so it doesn''t make any sense, that removing elogind stuff that I want to remove, wants to remove packages like cmus...14:48
hacksenwerkAlso the bare xserver I use was installed before that xfce stuff, that probably brought that elogind stuff with it...14:49
hacksenwerkYeah /var/log/apt/history.log says so, also the display manager slim has some elogin stuff.14:50
u-amarsh04cmus depends on libsystemd0 (which can be provided by libelogind-compat - in my system, or libelogind0 or libsystemd0 itself)14:52
hacksenwerkapt list --installed *elogin* libelogind-compat libelogind014:52
hacksenwerkboth packages want to break my system if I try to remove them.14:52
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: Are you on debian?14:53
u-amarsh04no, Devuan14:53
hacksenwerkYou are right!14:54
hacksenwerkwtf what does it need that for?14:54
hacksenwerklvm2 also depends on libsystemd014:55
hacksenwerkI thought that was a dummy package or something14:56
hacksenwerk*Scream* so devuan contains systemd stuff *crying*14:56
hacksenwerkman that's hard :(14:56
u-amarsh04yes, libsystemd0 in Devuan doesn't depend on systemd, it's a substitute package to satisfy other package's requirements without having to have systemd installed14:57
hacksenwerkPoettering has done a really good job to fuck up linux...14:57
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: Yeah.. but I wonder if someday programs decide to make some hard depencie on some systemd functions so devuan can not ship them any longer... :(14:58
hacksenwerkThat's a scary thought...14:59
u-amarsh04but my installation just uses libelogind-compat and libelogind0 - libelogind-compat provides the libsystemd0 alias and dummy functions14:59
hacksenwerkWell... so far it seems that you helped me out with that. I don't need to reinstall (yay!) because cmus or lvm2 or one of the others would bring that elogin stuff again on my system.15:00
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: Yes I have those both too and no libsystemd015:00
hacksenwerkSo that's the whole issue here: I tried to remove essential packages, so apt behaves total normal here ^^'15:01
hacksenwerku-amarsh04: Thank you very much for pointing that out!15:01
onefang"but I wonder if someday programs decide to make some hard depencie on some systemd functions so devuan can not ship them any longer." That's why we have the list of banned packages.15:01
hacksenwerkonefang: yeah I know that list...15:01
hacksenwerkHopefully I never have to read it again...15:02
onefangI wont link it then.15:02
hacksenwerkonefang: lol I have the link anyway :)15:02
hacksenwerkOk. Enough computer for today. I really need to reduce my computing time again now that I'm no longer ill.15:03
hacksenwerkAnd it is wonderful weather out there!15:03
hacksenwerkReality here I come! :)15:04
onefangHave fun.15:04
hacksenwerkRead you later. :)15:04
hacksenwerkonefang: thx15:04
tom-1phogg: Hello. yes,terminal15:29
tom-1brocashelm: Thanks for the reply. I know that there is such a program, but I would like to know how to find out through the terminal which font I use, preferably with one command, if possible15:30
tom-1for example the fc-list  command shows all fonts in the system15:31
rrqtom-1: the font decision(s) belong to the terminal emulator; the default choices for a console are in /etc/default/console-setup15:54

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