libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2023-07-25

antranigvaitor thanks!00:10
antranigvgnarface yup!00:10
antranigvall booting fine!00:10
antranigvso I installed Devuan using debootstrap, then I installed OpenRC because it's the easiest to manage00:10
antranigvat boot it runs the following command: /sbin/openrc default00:11
antranigvat shutdown the following: /sbin/openrc shutdown00:11
antranigvobviously some services complain that they cannot run such as dmesg00:11
antranigvbut it's all working perfectly00:11
antranigvtime to document00:12
antranigvthank you devuan. you are the best linux indeed00:14
ted-iousThat's impressive coming from a freebsd fan. :)00:15
antranigvwhat's the flood policy here? can I paste `ps auxf` ? :D00:16
ted-iousBetter be safe and use a pastebin so you don't get disconnected.00:17
antranigvhere's everything from the FreeBSD perspective00:18
antranigvI needed to do SOME modifications in devuan, but overall it was easy. like 3-4 commands. I'll write a blog post about that before sleep, and integrate this in my jail manager Jailer tomorrow.00:19
antranigvspecial thanks to norayr for helping out today with his Pinephone running Alpine/PostmarketOS :D00:20
ted-iousHmm is not friendly to anonymous browsers.00:26
ted-iousIs that official for freebsd?00:27
antranigvted-ious why is that?00:27
antranigvted-ious no no, just a community domain00:27
ted-iousIt's probably behind cloudflare.00:27
antranigvted-ious ohhh. lemme try something else00:28 is nice.00:29
ted-iousI don't know if there's an official one for devuan.00:29
ted-iousI don't know why people who use cloudflare don't bother to click a few buttons and make it friendly for everyone.00:29
antranigvted-ious how about this?
ted-iousI'm not a big fan of github but at least we can read their pastes. :)00:35
ted-iousThat's very interesting!00:35
ted-iousSo you didn't actually need an init?00:35
ted-iousOr is it invisible because of the jail?00:36
gnarfacethere's no official paste bin for devuan, i've just been telling people to use too00:46
gnarfacei think termbin is also popular around here00:46
gnarfacei think it's called that anyway00:47 i think that's the one00:47
antranigvted-ious well I didn't use /sbin/init, which runs /etc/inittab, which would run `/sbin/openrc boot`, but that would run things like ttys, which we don't need00:49
antranigvinstead I boot using the default runlevel, and stop with the shutdown runlevel00:50
ted-iousOh neat.00:50
fsmithrednc 9999 < myfile00:52
fsmithredand then you get a short link to post00:53
antranigvfsmithred nice!00:54
ted-iousantranigv: So there's nothing unnecessary like tty's because there's no init but how do you spawn the other processes and keep them happy?00:55
ted-iousAnd if there's no linux kernel either this must be incredibly efficient for using ram.00:56
antranigvso openrc spawns the services and manages them, but if I want to attach I use the `jexec` command. the `jexec` command executes the jail_attach syscall which inserts itself into the jail00:56
antranigvyeah, also I get all the beauty of ZFS, DTrace, and rctl/resource_control00:56
gnarfaceand PF?00:57
antranigvlemme check00:57
antranigvbelieve it or not, if you put the right files at the right place, you can run pf on Linux now :)
antranigvcongrats, you now have clean waters01:04
gnarfacePF is awesome01:05
ted-iousantranigv: How secure are freebsd jails and how do they compare to linux containers?01:22
antranigvted-ious I mean the codebase is tiny, so you can audit it very well. we're talking about 3-4000 lines of code in the kernel, and about that for the userland utility01:22
antranigvthe FreeBSD jail security issues usually come from other subsystems, say the virtual networking subsystem, or the mounting subsystem, etc.01:23
antranigvbut those things could attack anything, a process that's not jailed as well. you know01:23
golinuxIsn't this getting a bit OT from Devuan support?01:59
brocashelm#devuan-offtopic is -> that way02:00
antranigvgolinux apologies. But for context, we were actually talking about OpenRC support on Devuan :D02:11
al1r4dI have a problem: keyboard and mouse don't work when I run dwm (xorg).02:13
al1r4dIf in a TTY environment, there is no keyboard and mouse issue.02:13
al1r4dPreviously I did an update and it left me with a problem: I can't open Thunar (I forgot the version, just the latest according to the repository).02:13
al1r4dDoes thunar's problem have anything to do with this new problem?02:13
Xenguyal1r4d, Are there any cases where they *do* work?02:23
XenguyTTY, and ...?02:23
Xenguyal1r4d, Are there any cases where the keyboard and mouse *do* work?02:26
XenguyWhen do they work, and when don't they?02:26
al1r4dWork on tty, not work on xorg02:26
XenguySo an xorg-wide problem, gotcha02:26
al1r4dXenguy: maybe02:27
XenguyAlways maybe until the solution appears, heh02:27
gnarfaceal1r4d: which release are you using? i haven't seen that happen since before devuan. i think it turned out to be a kernel issue02:28
al1r4dgnarface: excalibur02:28
gnarfaceal1r4d: alright, so the risk is high. did the update in question include a kernel update?02:28
al1r4dXenguy: i found this:
al1r4dMaybe my problem is what written on there02:29
al1r4dThey said "This update renders X unusable as no input devices are left."02:30
gnarfacetimeline proximity makes that seem quite likely02:30
al1r4dgnarface: i believe this is not kernel issue since i still able to use on tty02:30
gnarfaceal1r4d: try the downgrade02:30
al1r4dAfter xorg, i cant use all my keyboard and device, even the thinkpad trackball02:30
al1r4dgnarface: i will try later02:31
XenguySounds like you guys found the culprit02:31
debdog has been linked on devuan-dev ml, devuan bug #76902:33
debdogalso, al1r4d prolly should have mentioned which devuan version!02:34
XenguyAh, he did, Excalibur02:36
al1r4ddebdog: i already said my version lol, i use devuan excalibur02:36
debdogahh, now I see it, too.02:36
debdogafter it was pulled off his nose, hehe02:37
debdognix für ungut!02:38
al1r4dThank you everybody.. i will downgrade02:40
splinterbyteI installed a system with devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso with LUKS on a 150GB disk and it seems to be PBKDF:      argon2i  and not argon2id  ... Is there a reason for that?11:55
Necrodiverim having some issues installing refracta on a dell latitude 5490 (UEFI garbage)13:42
Necrodiverit doesnt recognize the nvme ssd thats installed13:42
Necrodiverso it wont boot13:42
Necrodiverthe bios says the drive is there so thats not the issue13:43
Necrodiversecure boot is disabled as well13:45
Necrodiveri installed refracta 11 (chimaera)13:49
rrqtry adding nvme, ext4, and crc32c to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules (one line each), then update-initramfs13:56
Necrodiverin a liver boot?13:59
Necrodiverlvie boot^13:59
Necrodiverokay hold on, let me get this back out13:59
rrqyes, boot up the live and use chroot to modify the target13:59
Necrodiverokay im into the liveboot14:01
Necrodiverso first i need to mount the drive, then go into in14:01
rrqin chroot, edit /etc/initramfs-tools/modules to name the three modules14:03
Necrodiverokay opened terminal there and going to go into movdules in vim14:03
Necrodivertheres no area in the file called chroot14:04
rrqno, chroot is the program you run to change the filesystem root for a shell14:04
rrqthus, exit vim, and run: chroot /target14:06
rrq(or wherever the target is mounted)14:06
rrqthen use e.g. vim to edit /etc/initramfs-tools/modules within that filesystem14:06
Necrodiveri did sudo chroot /etc/initramfs-tools/modules14:08
Necrodiverdidnt work14:08
Necrodiversays its not a directory14:08
rrqtry: chroot /target14:09
rrqor /mnt14:09
rrqwhere you mounted the target filesystem14:09
rrqthen do: vim /etc/initramfs-tools/modules14:09
rrq(in that chroot shell)14:10
rrqthen do: update-initramfs -u -k all14:10
rrqstill in that shell14:10
Necrodiverchroot isnt workiong for some reason14:15
Necrodiveri can open the drive and stuff14:16
rrqwhat's the error?14:16
Necrodiversays cant change root directory to modules14:17
rrqno the firdt argument to chroot should be the mount point for the target filesystem14:17
rrqso if you mounted it at "/target", then you'd do "chroot /target"14:18
Necrodiveroikay so i did that14:19
Necrodiversays i dont have permission14:19
rrqdoing so enters a shell with its "/" being that mounted filesystem14:19
rrqneed to be root for thses things14:19
Necrodiveri did sudo14:19
Necrodiveror should i have done su?14:20
rrqnot sure; perhaps "su -" is best, with roots passwrd14:20
Necrodiveri dont have the root password for default refracta14:20
rrqis it "toor" ?14:21
Necrodiverin live boot14:21
Necrodivertoor? nope14:21
rrqdid you try?14:23
Necrodivertoor? yes, didnt work14:23
rrqyou can do "sudo su -" and us the user password?14:24
Hurgotrondoes it even need a password? sudo -s14:24
Necrodiverokay now im root14:24
Necrodiverroot@refracta /home/user14:25
rrqright; where did you mount the target filesystem?14:25
rrqok; that's the device node... which dir did you mount it on?14:26
rrqlike: "mkdir /target ; mount /dev/nvme0n1p2 /target"14:26
Necrodiverah media/user/long mess of letters and numbersd14:27
rrqyour choice...:) now do: chroot/media/user/long_mess_of_letters_and_numbersd14:28
rrqwith space: chroot /media/user/long_mess_of_letters_and_numbersd14:29
Necrodiversays permission denied14:29
rrqmmmm gvfs probably... so unmount it from there and use my /taget advice instead14:30
Necrodiverokay unmiounted14:31
Necrodiverso sudo -s14:31
Necrodivernow /media/user/mess of numbers?14:33
Necrodivereven though it inst mounted?14:33
rrqwell, mount it somewhere easier, eg /target14:33
rrqforget media/user/mess...14:33
rrqas root, do: mkdir /target ; mount /dev/nvme0n1p2 /target14:34
Necrodiverso far so good14:35
rrqthen: chroot /target14:35
Necrodiverokay worked14:35
Necrodiverno error14:35
rrqthen: vim /etc/initramfs-tools/modules14:35
Necrodiverokay im in14:36
rrqadd the three lines with module names14:36
Necrodivernow what and where do i add the lines14:36
rrqat the end14:36
rrqfirst says: nvme14:37
Necrodiverno hashtags on them, right?14:37
rrqsecond says: ext414:37
rrqright, just the module names14:37
rrqthird says: crc32c14:37
rrqthen save file and exit vim14:38
rrqthen do: update-initramfs -u -k all14:38
Necrodiverokay done14:39
rrqthen exit, then reboot ...14:39
Necrodiverno bootable devices fouind14:40
Necrodivermaybe its a bios setting?14:40
Necrodiverbecause i dont have any boot optionsset14:40
rrqhmm obviously not the problem I thought it was14:42
rrqUEFI boot?14:42
rrqand you installed grub-efi-amd64 ?14:42
Necrodiveri dont know, as i just used refracta installer14:43
rrq... do the mount dance again, then check with: dpkg -l | grep grub14:43
Necrodivershould i have before installing the distro?14:43
rrq(check within the chroot)14:44
rrq... I think you might need to get fsmithred on the line14:46
rrqfsmithred ^^^14:47
Necrodiveryeah it seems the efi pakcage was installed14:51
rrqright. so, the edit you did before doesn't do harm, but was probably not necessary. other then that the problem seems outside of my area14:53
Necrodiveri know brocashelm had a bitch of a time trying to install salix on his 549014:54
Necrodiverbecause of efi14:54
fsmithredhere. Can I get a synopsis?15:01
Necrodiverso i installed refracta 11 on a dell latitude 549015:02
Necrodiveri created a separate boot parition, 512mb15:02
Necrodivermade it fat 3215:02
Necrodiverthe /home is ext415:03
Necrodiverwhen i restarted after the install15:03
Necrodiverit says no bootable device found15:03
Necrodiverits uefi15:03
Necrodiveri have secure boot turned off15:04
Necrodiverbut nothing seems to get it to boot15:04
fsmithredboot parition as in /boot?15:04
Necrodiverthe only thing i can think of to try now15:04
fsmithredthat's wrong15:05
fsmithredthe efi partition should be fat3215:05
fsmithredif you selected to use a separate /boot partition, that should be a linux partition for /boot15:05
fsmithredthe efi partition gets mounted at /boot/efi15:05
Necrodiverokay so let me go back into the liveboot15:05
fsmithredare you using encryption?15:05
Necrodiverthen you can guide me through the install15:06
fsmithredif you're not using encryption or lvm then you don't need a separate partition for /boot but you will still need a separate partition for efi15:06
Necrodiverokay loading now15:07
fsmithredthe efi partition can be anywhere from around 50-500mb15:08
fsmithred100-200 should be more than enough15:08
Necrodiverokay so im gonna run refracta installer now15:09
fsmithredthat's fat32 and gets esp and boot flags15:09
fsmithredthe rest of the drive can be for / or for / and a swap partition.15:09
fsmithredif no swap partition, then the installer will make a swapfile15:10
Necrodiverokay so im going to reset the partitions now15:11
Necrodiverokay what flags do i need for the fat32 parition?15:13
Necrodiveresp, boot?15:13
Necrodiverokay i set it to esp boot, 200mb15:14
fsmithredthe rest can be ext4 for the OS15:14
fsmithreddo you want a separate partition for /home?15:15
Necrodiveri used gparted15:15
fsmithredyeah, that's what I usually do15:15
Necrodiverand the installer says i should use gdisk since no uefi boot partition is there15:15
Necrodiveri mean efi boot partition15:16
fsmithredum... I don't recall writing that message15:16
fsmithredI'm pretty sure you can use gparted for it15:16
Necrodiverthere is no efi partition. you will need to create one15:16
Necrodiverthats what it says15:16
fsmithreddidn't you just make one?15:16
Necrodiveri just made an esp. boot partitionb15:17
Necrodiverit doesnt recognize it?15:17
fsmithreddoes it give you a way to go back on that screen?15:17
fsmithredand is the nvme the only disk?15:17
Necrodiversays help, continue or abort insallation15:17
Necrodiveryeah the nvme is the only one15:17
fsmithredin another terminal, run fdisk -l15:18
fsmithredsee if it sees the efi partition15:18
fsmithredsudo fdisk -l15:18
Necrodiveryeah it says its an efi fat 16 -32 partinio15:19
fsmithredok, I think you need to abort and restart the installer15:20
Necrodiverfat 12 16 3215:20
Necrodiverokay thats weird15:20
Necrodiveri did the gui installer this time and same message15:21
fsmithredok, run 'sudo partprobe'15:21
Necrodiverit says ventoy device busy15:21
Necrodiversicne i use ventoy on my usb drive15:22
Necrodiverany ideas? gparted seemed to create the efi partition15:24
fsmithredthe script uses fdisk -l to count the efi partitions.15:26
fsmithredI don't know why it's not seeing it15:26
fsmithredcan you send me the error log from the gui installer run?15:27
fsmithredit's /var/log/refractainstaller.log15:27 or email me at gmail15:27
fsmithreddid you get this message?    "There is no disk with a gpt partition table.15:29
fsmithred        You should exit this script and run gdisk to create one for uefi boot."15:29
fsmithredok, then you should do that15:29
fsmithredor maybe switch to legacy bios boot if you want to use msdos partition table15:29
fsmithredbtw, you can use gparted to change it to gpt partition table15:29
Necro-divershould i delete the partitions i have now?15:30
Necro-diverhow do i change it to gpt?15:30
fsmithredgo to Device, Create partition table15:30
fsmithredand select gpt from the list15:31
fsmithredthen you will need to create new partitions15:31
fsmithrednote: everything on the disk will be gone when you make gpt15:31
Necro-diverokay i did the new partitions15:32
Necro-diverin gpt15:32
Necro-diverthe first partition is flagged msftdata15:32
Necro-diverso what should i add to it?15:33
fsmithredchange it15:33
fsmithredthat' the fat32?15:33
fsmithredchange the flags to esp boot15:33
Necro-diverokay done15:33
fsmithredif you want separate swap partition, make one now15:34
fsmithreddo you plan to hibernate?15:34
Necro-divernah i dont usually do hiberante15:34
fsmithredok, then don't bother. You'll get a 256mb swapfile15:35
Necro-diveryeah this pc has 16gb of ram so15:35
Necro-diveri dont really need swap or anything15:35
Necro-diverokay im gonna run the refracta installer now15:35
fsmithredrumor has it that some programs like swap. I sometimes see around 40-60mb swap in use when I have 8G ram15:36
Necrodiverokay installimng15:39
fsmithrednext thing should be install bootloader15:43
Necrodiveri got it all set up, im in the fully installed system15:45
Necrodiversetting up all the excess garbage like japanese input and updating packages15:47
fsmithredI'll be afk for a few minutes15:48
fsmithredgood luck with it. Yell if you need me.15:48
Necrodiveri need to go to bed soon, i got work tomorrow and this week is hectic as hell15:48
Necrodiverthasnk for the help fsmithred and rrq15:49
Necrodivertomorrow after work, time to fight with the keyboard layout and getting it to work with the native japanese keyboard15:58
schillingklausis daedalus still far from a stable release?16:46
debdogschillingklaus: short answer is: "no"16:54
debdogpackages themselfs are up-to-date, so upgrading should™ be stable. from what I've heard the installer needs some more work but that just affects fresh installs.16:56
smolcatin the meantime there don't seem to be many security updates, which is the most worrying aspect of it.17:13
fsmithredsmolcat, I have 69 upgrades waiting on my daedalus, and last upgrade was June 13.17:28
smolcatusually the debian secuity updates correspond to devuan security updates. but much of the updating slowed down considerably over the past couple of weeks or so.17:39
debdogthat most likely is a subjective observation. because 99.99 % of devuan's packages rely _directly_ on debian sources.17:48
smolcatcould be.17:49
debdogexcept you're able to prove that wrong, of course17:49
debdoghave you evidence for your statement? devuan devs want to know, otherwise there's no improvement.17:51
smolcatas you said and i agreed, it could be a subjective observation.17:54

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