libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2023-09-11

rrqeveryone: if you run startx as non-root, using daedalus and ceres, you are invited to test the devuan/experimental build and send feedback to LeePen or rrq .. it's a version that is happy about VT switching (supported by either seatd or elogind), but we want more confirming tests.00:54
gnarfacehmm, my daedalus install doesn't have problems with that though01:01
DelTomixrrq: which packages are needed from experimental?01:01
DelTomixI have the VT switching issue so I can definitely test01:02
rrqxserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-common01:02
DelTomixok thanks! will report back01:02
romoHey guys, I might have slightly forgotten to upgrade one ASCII VM to 3.1/4.0/5.0. Is that still possible?16:37
debdogrelease to release, of course16:41
debdogto bring ASCII up-to-date before then dist-upgrade you have to alter sources.list to point to instead of pkgmaster.devuan.org16:44
romoSo this should be a matter of changing repositories, running apt update followed by apt full-upgrade. Is there a place where I may find Beowulf repositories?16:45
romoOh, so it's + <Release-Name>, right?16:47
debdog#deb beowulf main non-free contrib16:47
debdog#deb beowulf-updates main non-free contrib16:47
debdog#deb beowulf-security main non-free contrib16:47
romoMany thanks.16:48
debdog the ones with the Status Archived require the repo16:48
debdogI have done that same thing a couple of weeks ago. but ATM I can't find the image of that VM. inside there is a sources.list with all the steps, all the repos17:03
romoMade it to Beowulf - thank you very much. Wuhu.17:04
romoNo worries, that did work perfectly fine. Yay.17:05
debdogthere is one thing I have encountered. step Chimaera to Daedalus might have pitfalls. depending on the complexity of installs inside that VM17:06
debdogin case you encounter major issues might help to clean things up17:07
debdogissues dependency wise17:08
debdogthat is17:08
romoIt's a very (very) defaulty install (even without non-free & contrib). All right. Thanks. Depending on how that'll work I'll likely be okay to stay on Chimera or even Beowulf for a while. I'm now trying Snapshot/Upgrade-approach in any case.17:10
romoWuhu, made it to Daedalus. Is there a specific package to install commonly popular Xfce themes like Adwaita-dark separately?18:12
gnarfacenot sure, maybe adwaita-icon-theme, gnome-themes-extra, gnome-themes-extra-data?18:21
romoYeah, gnome-themes-extra will do. adwaita-icon-theme was already included by default & I didn't try the last one. Thank you, my eyes don't last long without a dark theme. Yay.18:28
YKaeligFrom Devuan on Nvidia GTX660 with driver 470.199.0219:36
YKaeligPatched for removing nvidia-persistenced dependency19:40
gnarfaceYKaelig: hooraaay! so you got 470 running in daedalus under kernel 6.1?19:42
YKaeligYes. Linux devuan 6.1.0-12-amd6419:43
gnarfacethat's great news. how's stability?19:43
gnarfacehave you run some opengl tests to see if it works right and everything?19:43
gnarfacemy first concern would be that the result would be really crashy if you try to use any hardware "features"19:44
gnarfacesorry, and i'll look at it19:45
YKaeligI'm going to run some benchmarks, yes19:46
gnarfacemake sure you have acpid installed19:47
YKaeligwhy ?19:47
gnarfacethe nvidia drivers need it for (amongst other things) thermal zones19:47
gnarfacejust so power throttling/overheat protect works19:47
gnarfaceyou wouldn't want to go through all this trouble just to fry it running benchmarks19:48
YKaeligwell, I'm not using it on my Gentoo and  that's not a problem.19:49
gnarfaceit's not a given that it will be, it depends on video bios defaults that vary between manufacturer and product generations19:49
gnarfaceand the quality of your cooling setup19:50
YKaeliggnarface There is no devuan pastebin ?19:50
gnarfacenah there's not unfortunately. it would just become a spam trap19:50
gnarfaceacpid should have come along with your desktop environment though in a fair world. it's also for basic stuff like sleep/hibernate controls, but depending on how you installed it might have been left out19:51
gnarfaceif you're using systemd on the gentoo isntall, it would use some systemd internal thing instead19:51
YKaeligSo, is there a good place to share the tutorial if someone else want to configure/build/install the driver for devuan ?19:52
YKaeliggnarface No systemd but a custom build with S6+66suite19:52
gnarfaceyea, put it on the forum at dev1galaxy.org19:53
gnarfacei think it might also be appropriate to give a heads-up to the mailing list19:53
YKaeligI don't want to register anywhere , I'm done with that.19:53
gnarfacei don't blame you19:53
gnarfacemaybe you can get someone else here with one of those 660's to test it and they can put it up for you after that19:54
YKaeligWell, I'm going to paste it on paste.debian.net19:56
YKaeligdoesn't work19:58
YKaeligdebian ...19:58
YKaeligInvalid format for name19:59
YKaeligMaybe because I enter devuan19:59
gnarfaceYKaelig: make sure you don't have any email addresses or urls in there19:59
gnarfaceYKaelig: (they also have a spam problem)19:59
gnarfaceonefang, debdog ^ the nvidia 470 porting notes are ready20:00
YKaeligHere is the link for those who want to play with it.
YKaeligI have not time to debug debian online services issue20:02
gnarfaceif anyone can please put this up on the forum it would be appreciated in the future20:02
YKaeligI can some uningine benchmark first.20:05
YKaeligBy the way. I confirm an issue with the default debian breeze theme available after a KDE desktop installation from the netinstall iso20:07
YKaeligAlso I confirm that KDE wayland is set as the default session and it's a bad idea. I thought first that was an issue with Devuan only I later I got the idea to check the default value in SDDM20:08
YKaeligGood old card, lol20:22
YKaeligGood old CPU too20:22
YKaeligI will do some devuan behavior tests with default configuration, in Games, in Audio, in Wine. Curious to see how it will compare with OpenMandriva. Next I will optimse each of the distro and test again.20:28
YKaeligWell, at least on nvidia driver still the desktop doesn't freeze like on nouveau driver after few minuts or even second, it's random.20:29
YKaeligIt's only my opinion but there is too much kde application sofwares by default from the netinstall.20:31
YKaeligI don't know who is usign konqueror for example, lol20:31
DFPSo it was Nouveau! I never knew.20:38
gnarfaceeven the nouveau maintainers will tell you it's terrible and don't use it20:39
DFPThough now enough time passed since I last had frequent freezes that I am not sure if I had Nouveau or not. :D20:39
gnarfacei think nouveau replaced the original nv driver sometime around 20 years ago20:40
gnarface15-20, something like that20:40
rwpIn the Chimaera timeframe I removed my nvidia adaptor and switched to a radeon to avoid the newly introduced freeze and crash bugs in the nouveau driver.  It had been great for years.  Then it destabilized.20:40
gnarfacethat's also the official recommendation from #nouveau; buy AMD20:41
rwpI don't know what they were modifying in the driver but they took it from being an acceptable okay driver to being "too buggy for me to use" over about three months in Unstable.20:41
gnarface(ironically, the instability was actually probably caused directly by the driver being more completed)20:41
rwpI feel sympathy for all of the people who bought high powered nVidia cards and now want to use them.  Bummer.  Because the proprietary driver is terrible too.20:43
rwpMeanwhile I have had zero problems of any kind with the AMD adaptors using the in kernel main source drivers.20:44
DFPI bought NVidia before I learned that they were a dick. :D20:44
YKaeligWell, it's not easy for Nvidia when linux developers do everything to put obstacles in the way.20:45
DFPI mean their general business practices, by the way.20:46
YKaeligWhether it's AMD or NVIDIA, they are both good business actors20:50
gnarfacealright, this is getting offtopic, take the vendor ethics debate to to #devuan-offtopic20:51
DPAYKaelig: You know, recommends are optional dependencies. You can do "apt-get install --no-install-recommends", or set the appropriate option in the config files of apt. You can also uninstall nvidia-persistenced after the fact. Or you can explicitly tell apt to keep it uninstalled while installing nvidia-driver: "apt-get install nvidia-driver nvidia-persistenced-"20:55
DPA(Note the "-" after the package name, for "remove").20:56
YKaeligYes, I know. But I prefer to remove the dependency from the ground. :)20:57
YKaeligA la Gentoo. I build what  I need ;)20:58
DPAThose are package dependencies rather than build dependencies, though.21:01
YKaeligYes, right. My bad21:02
DFP'(Note the "-" after the package name, for "remove")' Argh! I never knew!21:02
DFPAh, all the times I wanted to skip installing a particular recommend and didn't know how..21:03
YKaeligIt's just my choice and it should be the default value because a beginners could have no idea about how apt works. And by default on devuan nvidia-perisstend is  add the the default runlevel and started at boot, which is not recommended by nvidia21:04
YKaeligadd the / added to21:04
YKaeligThe daemon utility nvidia-persistenced is installed by the NVIDIA Linux GPU driver installer, but it is not installed to run on system startup.21:05
YKaelignvidia-persistenced is intended to be run as a daemon from system initialization, and is generally designed as a tool for compute-only platforms where the NVIDIA device is not used to display a graphical user interface.21:05
DPAOk, that really looks like it shouldn't be a recommends, you're right. Would probably be better if it was a suggests.21:09
YKaeligJust to be sure
YKaeligFor the last version21:10
YKaeligStill here after some unigine benchmark :)21:22
YKaeligWell, enough for today. Have a good day/night21:22
YKaeligCU later21:22

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