| de-facto | LjL, that would mean hmm no asymptomatic transmission in households (if that is the case)? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | de-facto, not necessarily, there could be symptomatic cases that don't infect others, while at the same time having asymptomatic cases infecting others. but *my* feeling (not based on anything other than feeling) is that people who are both vaccinated and asymptomatic will generally not infect others | 00:01 |
| de-facto | well no i take that back symptoms also can develop later | 00:01 |
| LjL | presymptomatic vs asymptomatic :P | 00:01 |
| de-facto | yeah | 00:01 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit is a good example always goes to sleep at midnight | 00:08 |
| de-facto | i wish i was as consequent about my biorhythm | 00:08 |
| Timvde | LjL: The Dutch prime minister has said multiple times "I haven't been tested yet, because I haven't been presymptomatic yet" | 00:14 |
| LjL | Timvde, maybe his fortune teller would have alerted him | 00:28 |
| LjL | de-facto, oh now you make me want to make a bedtime monitor for irc ;( | 00:29 |
| LjL | not that it's the first time i think about it, either | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vietnam receives 500,000 Sinopharm vaccine doses donation from China → https://is.gd/fIww3m | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +185 cases (now 840823) since a day ago | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Nurse Whose Husband Died of COVID Is on a Door-to-Door Vaccine Crusade: 'I Can Help Save Others' → https://is.gd/TVprH8 | 01:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tunisia: +4664 cases (now 403493), +90 deaths (now 14579) since a day ago | 01:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +32 deaths (now 111015) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +688 cases (now 3.7 million), +107 deaths (now 91115) since 16 hours ago | 02:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Indonesian COVID patients die in self-isolation as hospitals reach breaking point → https://is.gd/Bvji5h | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Colombia: +33594 cases (now 4.1 million), +693 deaths (now 104014) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +1272 cases (now 1.7 million), +6 deaths (now 17882) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +21 deaths (now 128210) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +19 deaths (now 26198) since 23 hours ago | 02:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Long Covid: 'I've blood clots, a braced leg and damaged heart... but I'm home' → https://is.gd/P34dbj | 02:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sydney, Australia, enters full lockdown for the first time in the pandemic to fight the Delta variant. → https://is.gd/5DhJrD | 02:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A Coronavirus Epidemic Hit 20,000 Years Ago, New Study Finds - A few dozen human genes rapidly evolved in ancient East Asia to thwart coronavirus infections, scientists say. Those genes could be crucial to today’s pandemic. → https://is.gd/4wwBFa | 03:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cyprus: +226 cases (now 74569) since 23 hours ago | 03:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +17320 cases (now 4.7 million), +21 deaths (now 128215) since 23 hours ago — France: +44 deaths (now 111036) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +1250 cases (now 1.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 04:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: First post-pandemic cruise ship from US sails away → https://is.gd/kYYNtK | 04:48 |
| Krey[m] | Why are we not recommending people to not exercise after covid-19 vaccine assuming the now recognized myocarditis in <30 | 06:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 773: Laurie Garrett, pandemic prophet: Laurie Garrett, author of The Coming Plague , joins TWiV for a wide-ranging discussion of infectious disease and public health, including emerging infections, the role of wildlife markets in spillovers, and missteps in handling the COVID-19 pandemic. → https://is.gd/uKzjWM | 06:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russian Vaccine Skeptics Rush to Buy Fake Covid Jab Certificates - The Moscow Times → https://is.gd/R5Tm4M | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Australia’s Sydney and Darwin in Covid-19 lockdowns → https://is.gd/3Qi1Ei | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sweden's gun crime epidemic is spiralling out of control → https://is.gd/6KfZI2 | 06:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +107 deaths (now 91117) since 21 hours ago | 07:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Teenagers find new way to defy parents: Getting vaccinated → https://is.gd/gMQxrd | 07:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for England, United Kingdom: +14809 cases (now 4.1 million), +20 deaths (now 112649) since 23 hours ago — Moscow Oblast, Russia: +2504 cases (now 303795), +20 deaths (now 6439) since 23 hours ago — Saint Petersburg, Russia: +1247 cases (now 464142), +107 deaths (now 15900) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 07:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Hancock quits as health secretary after breaching Covid guidance: His successor Sajid Javid says he is "honoured" to take on the role at a critical time in the pandemic. → https://is.gd/oM7ybF | 07:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kyrgyzstan: +992 cases (now 120865), +6 deaths (now 1977) since 22 hours ago | 08:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +50040 cases (now 30.2 million), +1232 deaths (now 395341) since 23 hours ago | 08:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | June 27, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/ZOwqsG | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +809 cases (now 3.7 million), +232 deaths (now 91303) since 19 hours ago | 10:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Cases (2.3% of them, lagged 14 days) vs Deaths for England → https://is.gd/DmJk1K | 10:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fiji: +511 cases (now 3591) since 18 hours ago | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: FDA adds heart inflammation warning to Moderna, Pfizer vaccines | Coronavirus pandemic News → https://is.gd/2EeRSV | 11:07 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Today I received my second dose of Comirnaty®. | 11:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.K. health minister resigns after breaking Covid rules by kissing aide → https://is.gd/fbCZRk | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +811 cases (now 3.7 million) since 22 hours ago | 12:29 |
| stompykins | scheisse | 12:29 |
| stompykins | any american delta variant stats Brainstorm ? | 12:29 |
| * stompykins has pfizer vax, still worried | 12:30 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO recommends masks -- even for vaccinated people -- because of Delta variant → https://is.gd/eD87wh | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Singapore preparing to live with endemic Covid-19 as residents grow ‘battle weary’ of pandemic, ministers say → https://is.gd/doB9Zr | 12:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +21342 cases (now 2.1 million), +409 deaths (now 57138) since 23 hours ago | 13:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Covid-19 pandemic: There’s a need to address health challenges faced by LGBTQ+ community → https://is.gd/3IGHD2 | 14:02 |
| de-facto | congratz Arsanerit :) | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Oman: +5517 cases (now 262059) since 3 days ago — Nepal: +1353 cases (now 633679), +34 deaths (now 9009) since 23 hours ago | 15:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Doctors in Singapore urge expert committee on COVID-19 vaccination to stop vaccine drive for school boys: Media report → https://is.gd/b9Mybn | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Most COVAX Vaccine Recipients Excluded From New EU COVID 'Green Pass' - Thanks To Unapproved AstraZeneca Jab - Health Policy Watch → https://is.gd/HmlPz4 | 16:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel, a World Leader in Vaccinations, Faces a New Outbreak → https://is.gd/pQfANC | 16:17 |
| de-facto | ComirnatyNerit, same arm or the other? | 16:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +5268 cases (now 888406), +119 deaths (now 14172) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +792 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Cuba's COVID vaccine rivals BioNTech-Pfizer, Moderna — reports 92% efficacy → https://is.gd/I3c2s8 | 16:48 |
| ComirnatyNerit | de-facto: same arm | 16:49 |
| ComirnatyNerit | does that matter at all? | 16:49 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Thanks btw. | 16:49 |
| ComirnatyNerit | I'm a bit sore and tired. | 16:49 |
| Juerd | No, arm doesn't matter. There are some theories about alternating arms vs same arm, but they exist both ways and none are proven. | 16:51 |
| ComirnatyNerit | It's quite easy to propose an unproven theory. | 16:53 |
| de-facto | i dont know if there is any effect from that, i just like to know experiences | 17:00 |
| de-facto | i only got 1st and asked about same vs other at the center, they said more common is same but other is also possible | 17:02 |
| de-facto | i guess its does not really matter | 17:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Dozens came down with Covid on Everest. Nepal says it never happened. → https://is.gd/JSGXE3 | 17:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +1 deaths (now 26199) since 15 hours ago | 17:40 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Issuing the digital vaccination certificate worked flawlessly for me. | 17:40 |
| ComirnatyNerit | What I don't know yet is if I will behave any differently once I have complete vaccination protection in approximately two weeks. | 17:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Taiwan chipmakers keep workers ‘imprisoned’ in factories to keep up with global pandemic demand → https://is.gd/g85Ybx | 17:49 |
| de-facto | oh ComirnatyNerit did they give you a printout QR code cert or such? | 17:54 |
| ComirnatyNerit | de-facto: yes, and it worked instantly with the Corona-Warn-App | 17:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +14623 cases (now 4.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Yes, beware!: submitted by /u/Yorkshire80 to r/Covid2019 → https://is.gd/5hl7Un | 18:10 |
| de-facto | nice i hope i will get something like that too | 18:11 |
| de-facto | afaik pharmacies in Germany also can make such a QR code from the yellow WHO vaccination booklet and ID, they use some kind of website by RKI for that | 18:12 |
| de-facto | hopefully they do have some database queries for the vaccination (registered by insurance card at the day of injection) in the background to validate the yellow WHO booklet info | 18:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Delta Plus variant Cannot be tackled with Vaccines Alone, need safety measures like Face Masks: WHO → https://is.gd/93Q7Mr | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cuba: +2698 cases (now 182354), +10 deaths (now 1241) since 21 hours ago — Italy: +780 cases (now 4.3 million), +14 deaths (now 127472) since 22 hours ago | 18:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Luxembourg PM Bettel tests positive for coronavirus → https://is.gd/lQ4kEH | 18:30 |
| zutt | %cases US | 18:30 |
| Brainstorm | zutt: In United States, there have been 33.9 million confirmed cases (10.3% of the population) and 610836 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of a minute ago. 503.4 million tests were performed (6.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 2.7% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States for time series data. | 18:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Discoteche aperte con il Green pass da Lunedì → https://is.gd/PDrCfX | 18:41 |
| praiseukko | COVAXX (not to be confused with single "x" COVAX) is developing UB-612, the first multitope peptide-based vaccine designed to activate both B and T-cell arms of the immune system to fight against SARS-CoV-2 | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Delta coronavirus variant forces new lockdowns as Europe eases curbs | 27JUN21 → https://is.gd/3VkK8D | 18:51 |
| praiseukko | .title https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2021/06/28/2003759903 | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | praiseukko: From www.taipeitimes.com: COVID-19: United Biomedical jab’s phase 2 trials ‘promising’ - Taipei Times | 18:51 |
| praiseukko | Vaxxinity’s Alzheimer’s drug, which uses similar technology, encourages the body to clear misfolded proteins called amyloid plaques from the brain because genetic analysis has linked them to symptoms of the disease | 18:52 |
| praiseukko | this is interesting. trial schedule is very slow, tho. and pretty small numbers recruited for phase 3. maybe they will recruit more from another country | 18:53 |
| praiseukko | .title https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/exclusive-blackwater-founder-prince-takes-role-covid-vaccine-venture-2021-06-04/ | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | praiseukko: From www.reuters.com: EXCLUSIVE Blackwater founder Prince takes role in COVID vaccine venture | Reuters | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: All Aboard! 1st post-pandemic cruise ship readies to sail | 26JUN21 → https://is.gd/zzlskg | 19:01 |
| de-facto | xᴉuoxᴉu | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Delta Variant Driving Covid Third Wave In South Africa | 26JUN21 → https://is.gd/eOeCP3 | 19:12 |
| praiseukko | it seems to have S1 and some parts of S2, N and M. and an adjuvant | 19:12 |
| LjL | oh lord not a south african reloaded | 19:17 |
| LjL | praiseukko, hmm there is a lot of dubious stuff in Alzheimer's research, hope this one is among the less dubious | 19:18 |
| praiseukko | or maybe just RBD from S1, not sure | 19:18 |
| LjL | oh the new south african variant is "just" Delta | 19:19 |
| LjL | i knew it was you this time, by the way :P | 19:19 |
| LjL | not a nice sight this http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=South%20Africa&cumulative=no&smooth=yes | 19:19 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sciencealert.com/brain-changes-from-covid-19-look-eerily-similar-to-alzheimers-and-parkinsons-disease | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencealert.com: Brain Inflammation From COVID-19 Looks Eerily Similar to That From Alzheimer's | 19:20 |
| LjL | south africa is only around 4% vaccinated :( | 19:20 |
| LjL | urgh | 19:20 |
| LjL | i think i'll add this and the other study about brain mass shrinkage to the link list | 19:22 |
| LjL | i've kinda not wanted to | 19:22 |
| LjL | because it's scary | 19:22 |
| LjL | but that's probably not a reasonable criterion to exclude things on ;( | 19:23 |
| nixonix | alot is happening in alzheimer front currently | 19:24 |
| nixonix | .title https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-unusual-copper-iron-brains-alzheimer.html | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From medicalxpress.com: Unusual copper and iron found forming in brains of Alzheimer's patients | 19:24 |
| nixonix | whos that reuters guy, only after a few articles it says youve reached your monthly limit | 19:26 |
| nixonix | removing cookies dont work, but deleting local storage does | 19:27 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/fda-documents-show-struggle-over-approval-new-alzheimers-drug-biogen-2021-06-22/ | 19:27 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.reuters.com: FDA documents show struggle over approval of new Alzheimer's drug from Biogen | Reuters | 19:27 |
| nixonix | it seems to be the first new alz drug approved in 18 years | 19:29 |
| nixonix | couple of finnish experts say it looks promising but will prob take a few years before its found in european pharmacies | 19:30 |
| LjL | nixonix, i've heard *very* bad things about this FDA approval | 19:31 |
| LjL | many people are calling for resignations from the FDA board for it | 19:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +739 cases (now 3.7 million) since 22 hours ago | 19:32 |
| nixonix | yeah, in that article i pasted | 19:32 |
| nixonix | anyways, its not the same than vaxxinity's alzheimer drug | 19:33 |
| nixonix | https://www.ft.com/content/770ff3c4-6569-4f8c-97d2-3dcfd245e723 https://archive.is/xuD1O | 19:36 |
| nixonix | vaxxinitys drug does not look promising, some say | 19:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add study about seasonal variation in Europe ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/50b8bd08ad467a1ffb2bf404854f0c9c6e277843 ) | 19:38 | |
| nixonix | biogen's aducanumab would not be the solution, even if it works, because it only affects amyloid proteins of early disease, while there are several mechanism that should be targeted with some kind of cocktail treatment | 19:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add study about seasonal variation in Europe → https://is.gd/7lRN9G | 19:42 |
| LjL | de-facto, nixonix, guys i'm confused, the first time i read (the abstract of) this study https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v2 i thought it was saying that there was no significant difference between hospitalized and "mild" cases, i.e. both have similar loss of gray matter, but now i read more carefully and it say that "the comparison between" those is similar to the comparison of COVID and non-COVID people... so does it actually mean that | 19:45 |
| LjL | mild cases do not show these effects? i've also skimmed the study's discussion, and ctrl+f for hospitalized/mild, and still am not sure | 19:45 |
| nixonix | tegnell now using finland as a warning example (those soccer fans bringing indian variant from russia) | 19:45 |
| LjL | i saw the study linked from reddit here https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/o2bso2/new_covid_study_hints_at_longterm_loss_of_brain/ where people seem to say it apply to mild cases too, but i'm not sure i trust redditors on this | 19:46 |
| LjL | :( | 19:46 |
| LjL | fuck soccer | 19:46 |
| LjL | hmm based on the table on page 18 it looks unfortunately like it *doesn't matter* whether you were hospitalized or not :( | 19:49 |
| LjL | although i don't get it, covid/hosp+ vs control is not statistically significant...? | 19:50 |
| LjL | or wait this is P and not p and i'm having it backwards? | 19:50 |
| nixonix | neurotropism, t-cells crossing the barrier, or vascular damage causing it all. i dont think its clear yet | 19:53 |
| nixonix | and longitudal changes may be caused for something else than sars2 | 19:53 |
| nixonix | more research needed fast, esp if there will be permanent damage for kids with mild or no symptoms. affecting the decision if kids should be vaccinated, and parents individual decisions | 19:54 |
| LjL | nixonix, why would you say that? these longitudinal changes were in otherwise healthy people where the only difference was that some of them caught covid | 19:55 |
| LjL | anyway my question is whether this study shows significance also for non-hospitalized patients | 19:55 |
| LjL | <LjL> i had a look beyond the abstract to try to figure it out and page 18 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v2.full.pdf has a table but it still confuses me | 19:55 |
| LjL | <LjL> Pfwe would *higher* if there is significance, or *lower*? | 19:55 |
| LjL | <LjL> initially i guessed "lower" since "COVID vs control" would should high significance | 19:55 |
| LjL | <LjL> but why *wouldn't* "hospitalized COVID vs controls" not also show significance? | 19:55 |
| LjL | <LjL> because they're fewer? the first one is almost significant at 0.07 | 19:55 |
| LjL | <LjL> hmm i'm afraid it's actually saying there is no signifcant difference between hospitalized and not :\ | 19:55 |
| LjL | i want to add it to the links but i want to get the description of the findings right | 19:56 |
| nixonix | i got that impression from the second chapter of discussion section, that they arent sure | 20:00 |
| nixonix | paragraph | 20:00 |
| nixonix | ah, it seems those individuals that got sars2, had not much difference before and after sars2 infection | 20:05 |
| nixonix | just that those that had got sars2 infection, had lower thalamus volume than those that didnt get it | 20:07 |
| nixonix | wouldnt that mean that the infection doesnt affect? | 20:07 |
| nixonix | just that those with lower volume are more likely to get infected. like lower iq, reduced impulse control or whatever | 20:08 |
| LjL | uh | 20:08 |
| LjL | i was under the impression there was definitely a before-after difference | 20:08 |
| nixonix | or just too small noisy data | 20:08 |
| LjL | just not sure if only in hospitalized cases or not | 20:08 |
| LjL | the abstract does say "We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the brain with a loss of grey matter in the left parahippocampal gyrus, the left lateral orbitofrontal cortex and the left insula." | 20:09 |
| LjL | they are making a bold claim, saying they are definitely "effects of COVID-19" | 20:09 |
| nixonix | maybe we should try to find some expert comments on this | 20:09 |
| LjL | nixonix, can you tell me where in the discussion it hints that they had lower thalamus volume in the first place? | 20:10 |
| LjL | ah "This effect entirely disappears when taking into account the baseline scanshowever, since the thalamus of the participants who will later contract COVID-19appears to already differ from the controls years before infection (r=-0.15,Z=-4.3,Pfwe=0.04)." | 20:10 |
| LjL | okay, i will add a mention that there are hints that brains may already differ in some respects before getting COVID | 20:11 |
| nixonix | This effect entirely disappears when taking into account the baseline scans however, since the thalamus of the participants who will later contract COVID-19 appears to already differ from the controls years before infection | 20:11 |
| nixonix | and the next one after that | 20:11 |
| nixonix | also note the last sentence in the paragraph. so they are trying to avoid bold statements there | 20:12 |
| LjL | nixonix, alright but this is one difference, they definitely find other differences that are significant pre vs post covid | 20:12 |
| LjL | nixonix, i am already specifying that the effects seem localized in the smell and taste areas, which sounds very significant to me given the symptoms we know | 20:13 |
| nixonix | btw, that britisn self-reporting app for symptoms, like runny nose now more often, cough a bit less, and smell affected less often | 20:15 |
| nixonix | like here | 20:15 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57467051 | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bbc.co.uk: Headache and runny nose linked to Delta variant - BBC News | 20:16 |
| nixonix | i was thinking about possible reasons, other than caused by difference between the variants, indian vs kent | 20:16 |
| nixonix | maybe some of them didnt have sars2, but just false positives because of those lateral flow tests they give out free in uk. so some of them just have another cold | 20:17 |
| nixonix | also some of them might be reinfections, because lots of ppl in uk has already had it before | 20:17 |
| LjL | nixonix, yeah Delta seems to affect smell less often, right? | 20:17 |
| LjL | hmm | 20:18 |
| LjL | i hope not too many reinfections :( | 20:18 |
| nixonix | i read a lot of forum posts about those finnish soccer fans. most of those with symptoms had dry cough and sore throat. and mostly indian variant, supposedly | 20:18 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add preprint of before/after brain changes of COVID vs controls, and … ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/c739005dc6a4913af14383e36c66767117a8d35f ) | 20:18 | |
| nixonix | only a couple reported from smell. a few of them had fever | 20:18 |
| LjL | well i'm pushing the commit for these two brain studies, please tell me if i'm just wrong in some parts of the summary or i could make things clearer about the second study where all the cell types and the stuff they're analyzing is over my head | 20:18 |
| nixonix | those with one vacc dose had very mild symptoms, yet anyway, and some of them had them mostly gone after just one day | 20:19 |
| LjL | nixonix, this could be good if it means the brain is less affected, but it was a useful "telltale" symptom | 20:19 |
| LjL | oh maybe i should have mentioned in the description of the second study that the changes resemble alzheimer's/parkinson's, i forgot that | 20:21 |
| LjL | hmm although the actual study said the picture with covid is "unique" compared to those | 20:22 |
| nixonix | i would try to find some expert opinions on that study, as the causality isnt that clear imo | 20:22 |
| LjL | only "there is a big overlap in the glial cells" | 20:22 |
| LjL | nixonix, i do what i can, yuriwho was lost in freenode, dunnp seems to be happy in ##biology and away from here, and i just try to do whatever a layman who's been trying to parse study abstracts for a year can do | 20:23 |
| LjL | experts don't come on demand :P | 20:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add preprint of before/after brain changes of COVID vs controls, and …: Add preprint of before/after brain changes of COVID vs controls, and Nature study on changes in brain cellsCourtesy de-facto and nixonix. The former study is large and looks at brain scans (I don't understand the difference between [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cGNMaQ | 20:24 |
| LjL | i think i will not mention alzheimer's etc... | 20:26 |
| LjL | it sounds more like scaremongering from the headlines, while the study itself finds that all the changes, including glial cells, are there, but they are different from those diseases | 20:26 |
| LjL | %links brain imaging | 20:27 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v2 (Brain imaging before and after COVID-19 in UK Biobank) uses a large dataset of brain imaging scans performed on healthy people before COVID, and compared them with scans of roughly 400 people who later got COVID against roughly 400 controls who didn't, and finds significant loss of brain matter in various parts of [... want %more?] | 20:27 |
| ComirnatyNerit | ARD Tagesschau covered some research on long covid and blood | 20:27 |
| LjL | ComirnatyNerit, got link to study? or to article that links to study? also i'm guessing you just got vaccinated | 20:28 |
| ComirnatyNerit | I got my second dose today, I don't have a link right now, I can check later but don't have time right now. | 20:28 |
| LjL | ComirnatyNerit, alright, no problem | 20:29 |
| LjL | let us know how the side effects go (if any) | 20:29 |
| nixonix | some critic https://twitter.com/skepticalzebra/status/1405899724117393411 | 20:29 |
| LjL | "What there is not- & this is important later- is a table of clinical symptoms, or a questionnaire as to whether the participants were experiencing ongoing symptoms" ← it does seem, unless i missed it, that it's glaringly missing information on who had taste/smell loss | 20:30 |
| LjL | which since they claim taste/smell regions of the brain were involved, would be exceedingly interesting to know | 20:31 |
| LjL | "So, the question then becomes: is olfactory dysfunction itself alone associated with any brain changes? And the answer is yes." ← well, that doesn't calm me down, it just confirms what the study says :D | 20:32 |
| LjL | it seems to be a reasoning like "smell/taste loss is not a very serious thing so of course if it happens the brain areas that deal with it are going to change, but no big deal". it's a big deal to me | 20:32 |
| LjL | smell and taste are important senses even though we like to focus on sight and hearing, and losing smell can even lead to dangerous situations (e.g. gas) | 20:33 |
| LjL | "I think it's really important to put these findings into context. Coming out with statements like "children catching covid is child abuse" or "inhaled Alzheimers" is really irresponsible, as is the level of panic that surrounds all things Covid" ← okay i can agree with that but i didn't write any such thing myself :P | 20:34 |
| nixonix | i think gottliebs take was perhaps a bit too quick here: | 20:35 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210618/covid_long_term_brain_loss_study | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.webmd.com: COVID-19 May Cause Long-Term Brain Loss, Study Says | 20:35 |
| LjL | yes, he was criticized, i saw that | 20:36 |
| LjL | but the twitter thread author just can't stop repeating that this study is very interesting | 20:36 |
| LjL | so fair enough, it could be association with smell loss instead of direct causation from COVID to brain mass loss | 20:36 |
| LjL | and it's a shame they didn't inventorize these people's symptoms for this study | 20:37 |
| LjL | but i think i've represented it reasonably accurately in my summary, based on this thread | 20:37 |
| LjL | also you have people replying saying things like this: "I had anosmia for about a week and a half. My smell and taste did return but three months later it went nuts and now most things taste/smell peculiar (parosmia). Youngest daughter has it too. Same pattern. But one year later, she still has it. My friend Sarah still has anosmia." and they're not going to be any less scared just because you tell them it can be normal :( | 20:37 |
| LjL | these two comments look like they err way too much on the other side: https://twitter.com/be335651783/status/1406271328559185928 | 20:38 |
| nixonix | balloux thought again and deleted his tweet? https://twitter.com/adamhamdy/status/1406552153410396162 | 20:39 |
| LjL | dunno really who he is and what may be the significance behind deleting his post... but reply to that one, "I’m a paediatric neuropsychiatrist. Scan findings like these imply a significant brain injury as macroscopic change is a late sign of alteration in neural function. These are big changes. In people with “mild” disease. This is NOT OKAY. Glad to see it‘s on front pages of media." | 20:40 |
| LjL | what are these panels B and C that would have duplicated values? | 20:42 |
| LjL | "Although I tend to agree with you on being skeptical of non-peer reviewed papers, this group from the FMRIB is extremely reputable when it comes to neuroimaging. As someone with a very extensive background in neuroimaging, I can confidently say their methods are sound and I trust their results." (from Reddit) | 20:45 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/Vishy89/status/1406426306984566785 | 20:46 |
| nixonix | yeah they study is prob ok, just those interpretations ppl are making from it dont seem right to me | 20:47 |
| nixonix | balloux is a genetic epidemiologists. his twitter account is one of those worth following | 20:56 |
| nixonix | -s | 20:56 |
| nixonix | .title https://journals.lww.com/neurotodayonline/fulltext/2021/05200/new_findings_on_neurologic_effects_of_covid_19_in.1.aspx | 21:18 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From journals.lww.com: New Findings on Neurologic Effects of COVID-19 in Kids, Adul... : Neurology Today | 21:18 |
| nixonix | The key findings of the analysis were that patients hospitalized for COVID-19 had a high rate of pre-existing neurologic disease, as well as a high rate of developing new-onset neurologic disorders, both of which significantly increased their risk of death | 21:19 |
| nixonix | "Neurological symptoms, which have been mainly reported in adults, are very rare in children" | 21:22 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2020.613832/full | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.frontiersin.org: Frontiers | Neurologic Care of COVID-19 in Children | Neurology | 21:23 |
| nixonix | btw, frontiersin is great. at least for immunology and neurology | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Singapore has chosen to live with COVID-19 like the flu, without quarantine, texts or daily statistics → https://is.gd/rMI3gx | 21:25 |
| nixonix | i dont buy that. so few cases there so not much immunity. whats the vacc coverage and median age? | 21:30 |
| nixonix | but try it so we can see how it goes... | 21:31 |
| nixonix | in the long run yeah, but for short term, maybe not | 21:31 |
| nixonix | greeks, who used to accept those vaccinated with sputnik to country, now wants also from them a test before the trip, and another in greece. russians, that is | 21:39 |
| nixonix | “The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has said that the Delta mutation will prevail by the end of August in all EU countries and will account for 90% of all new cases,” | 21:42 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2021/06/25/local-lockdowns-possible-delta-greece-eody/#.YNWja92YwFk.twitter | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.keeptalkinggreece.com: "Local lockdowns possible due to Delta variant," says EODY president | 21:44 |
| nixonix | "Researchers and public health officials believe that the Delta variant of coronavirus, first identified in India, will become dominant in Spain in less than a month. | 21:47 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-26/europe-s-tourist-destinations-are-worried-about-the-delta-variant | 21:47 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bloomberg.com: Bloomberg - Are you a robot? | 21:47 |
| nixonix | i just check from our ministry of foreign affairs and also health insitute for travelling advice. both still, for sars2-wise, avoid all travelling to south africa, brazil and india. nothing about russia but "normal security level" | 21:55 |
| nixonix | ok thats it, we deserve to be punished by the indian variant... | 21:56 |
| * martini_man[m] uploaded an image: (641KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/nerdsin.space/f8be1f87dbcbca1f3298a7c0b962ab987fb4e79e/image.png > | 22:04 | |
| nixonix | a finnish epidemiologist told the press, that a a negative pcr test 72 hours after the exposure would mean 96% certainty for not being infected. anyone remembers a study that shows something like that? | 22:07 |
| nixonix | anyways the serial interval with these faster spreading variants seems to be shorter. they used 7 or 8 days in the past, later they have been using 5 days what ive seen | 22:09 |
| nixonix | not sure if that would be even shorter with indian variant | 22:09 |
| nixonix | i think it was with uk variant largish cluster here in the winter, where those that infected it to other people, half of new infections had happened within 3 days of getting it | 22:11 |
| nixonix | first time ever ive felt an urge to have a tattoo - or two - in shoulder | 22:13 |
| nixonix | nobody can guess what those tattoos would be | 22:14 |
| nixonix | yeah, thats what i thought | 22:16 |
| nixonix | how did they succeed to shoot that assgrab pic? hancock. who is now divorcing too | 22:20 |
| LjL | i'll add Balloux to the bot, but unfortunately having to use Nitter instances for RSS access to Twitter means they're quite unreliable | 22:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Togo: +28 cases (now 13816) since a day ago | 22:32 |
| nixonix | im not saying its something like top accounts to follow or anything, prob not. just one of those i seem to have checked sometimes | 22:36 |
| LjL | nixonix, well right now these are the accounts the bot tries to follow | 22:37 |
| LjL | twitter % 'BallouxFrancois': 'Francois Balloux', twitter % 'firefoxx66': 'Emma Hodcroft', twitter % 'Dereklowe': 'Derek Lowe', twitter % 'profshanecrotty': 'Shane Crotty', twitter % 'NussenzweigL': 'Nussenzweig Lab', twitter % 'jbloom_lab': 'Bloom Lab', twitter % 'trvrb': 'Trevor Bedford', twitter % 'baric_lab': 'Baric Lab' | 22:37 |
| ComirnatyNerit | LjL: I think at Tagesschau they were referring to: Markéta Kubánková, Bettina Hohberger, Jakob Hoffmanns, Julia Fürst, Martin Herrmann, Jochen Guck, Martin Kräter: | 22:57 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Physical phenotype of blood cells is altered in COVID-19, | 22:57 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Biophysical Journal, 2021, ISSN 0006-3495, | 22:57 |
| ComirnatyNerit | doi.org/10.1016/j.bpj.2021.05.025. | 22:57 |
| LjL | tahnks ComirnatyNerit | 23:00 |
| LjL | cc ubLIX[m] ublx | 23:00 |
| LjL | as in https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.12.429482v1 | 23:00 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Not 100% sure as Tagesschau did not cite the doi. | 23:00 |
| ComirnatyNerit | But the university matches so probably it is. | 23:01 |
| LjL | as usual with newspapers ;( | 23:02 |
| ComirnatyNerit | There's also a preprint linked from https://mpl.mpg.de/de/news-events/neues-aus-dem-institut/news-detail/article/News/detail/wie-eine-corona-infektion-blutzellen-langfristig-veraendert/ | 23:02 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Tagesschau in this case is not a newspaper but the German 15-minute daily evening news on the primary public broadcaster | 23:02 |
| LjL | oh wait | 23:02 |
| LjL | the one i posted https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.12.429482v1 is from February | 23:02 |
| LjL | this one from your link https://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(21)00454-9 is from June | 23:03 |
| LjL | so definitely best to go with the latter | 23:03 |
| LjL | ComirnatyNerit, oh, right, telegiornale | 23:03 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Press release is from 17 June, I'm not sure if this preprint has been peer reviewed yet. | 23:03 |
| ComirnatyNerit | But the images match the description I saw in the evening news, so I'm pretty sure it's the one they were talking about. | 23:04 |
| LjL | well this one is published on Cell, not just a preprint, from what i can tell | 23:04 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/explained-delta-plus-variant-symptoms-and-how-to-protect-yourself-101624778167878.html | 23:05 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.hindustantimes.com: Explained: Delta Plus variant symptoms and how to protect yourself | Latest News India - Hindustan Times | 23:05 |
| nixonix | maybe we dont believe the claim "spreads 60% faster than delta", though | 23:05 |
| nixonix | anyways, the extra mutation seems to have immune evading properties, while slowing the spread at the same time. ill find the source for that later, if i can. bbl | 23:06 |
| LjL | i haven't read anything about this Delta Plus, they're spreading faster than i can read about them | 23:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add study about physical changes of blood cells in patients → https://is.gd/muLfNo | 23:09 |
| LjL | de-facto, uhm too bad http://epidemicforecasting.org/country-rt-estimates is left back at March | 23:10 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add study about physical changes of blood cells in patients ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/47958834ef57930b615a8a3197955f64ac4b9f05 ) | 23:13 | |
| de-facto | yeah i thought the same when linking it, their site it pretty neat but their data needs updating | 23:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6 deaths (now 26204) since 21 hours ago | 23:34 |
| ublx | LjL: interesting. wonder how general the noted deformations are to various viral infections though | 23:44 |
| LjL | ublx, as usual we lack a control group between COVID studies and non-COVID studies :P | 23:52 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Having been fully vaccinated (with full protection in 2 weeks), how much should I worry about the upcoming wave with B.1.617.2/Delta? | 23:52 |
| LjL | eh, who knows | 23:57 |
| LjL | keep looking at the UK | 23:57 |
| LjL | and their weekly/periodic reports | 23:57 |
| LjL | they have Delta, they have a vaccinated population, when they feel extra nice they even distinguish between AZ and Pfizer in the reports (sometimes) | 23:57 |
| LjL | right now about 1/3rd of the *deaths* in the UK are among vaccinated people, likely all with Delta | 23:58 |
| LjL | that doesn't mean doom though, because the deaths overall are very few | 23:58 |
| LjL | but it does mean that you can get it and you can even die despite being vaccinated | 23:58 |
| LjL | chances are you won't though | 23:58 |
| ComirnatyNerit | Only 48% in UK have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, according to Our World In Data | 23:59 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/wembley-have-crowd-60000-euro-semis-final-uk-govt-2021-06-22/ <-- Delta will love soccer | 23:59 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.reuters.com: Wembley to have crowd of 60,000 for Euro semis and final - UK govt | Reuters | 23:59 |
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