trbp | LjL: of course :) not all but some and for lucky people like me always ;) | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1430365505899036676 | 00:00 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "Good question. The B cells that recognize the new antigen were always there! Just one copy per body. Each B cell when it's born is unique, and then if it's [...] | 00:00 |
trbp | twomoon: who is julius? | 00:00 |
LjL | twomoon, why would he be Julius? | 00:00 |
LjL | that's totally not Julius's MO | 00:01 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1431305953505284100 | 00:03 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "Tho I promote Regeneron to those who find themselves with COVID, it should be mentioned that it is all but certain that any given vaccinated person makes the [...] | 00:03 |
twomoon | Julius is a troll who pretends to be an anti-vaxxer just to troll better | 00:03 |
trbp | i am not antivax | 00:04 |
trbp | i just wanted to wait long enough for enough statistics | 00:04 |
trbp | and what happend to me maybe the least percentile | 00:04 |
trbp | but what happend to me makes me not want to speak other into vax anymore.... | 00:05 |
nixonix | (one of those regn2 antibodies, imdevimap, is compromised for delta, according to gupta lab - but the point was the other thing in that tweet) | 00:05 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A total of 160,000 people protested across France on Saturday, the interior ministry said, angered at the country's Covid health pass system which they say unfairly restricts the unvaccinated. By early evening the authorities had logged 222 separate protest actions → https://is.gd/vJe5Et | 00:13 |
twomoon | ok sorry trbp | 00:18 |
twomoon | being anti vax is okay | 00:18 |
twomoon | i have nothing against it | 00:18 |
twomoon | two people just died because of a faulty batch of moderna | 00:18 |
twomoon | and there were some faulty batches of moderna that caused vaccine clinics to be shut down in the US | 00:18 |
twomoon | being anti vax for the wrong reasons is bad though. and then trusting your pastor or favorite instagram influencer for advice on alternate drugs to combat covid | 00:20 |
trbp | twomoon: that is bullshit, i agree | 00:21 |
trbp | but i thought after mio of doses given, like someone mentioned here also, i would be somewhat save, wrong thought maybe it was also wrong temp maybe i also have a hidden cold or influenza running parallel, but it is at least for me a sign not to take any med/vax easy and/or granted | 00:23 |
nixonix | what are good reasons to be anti-vax? | 00:24 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1431732835392557064/photo/1 | 00:24 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Irene Tosetti (@itosettiMD_MBA): "From @PeterHotez in @CircAHA" | El Pajarito de NoGAFAM | 00:24 |
trbp | nixonix: the best reason for me? | 00:25 |
trbp | if i did have a bit worse physis like i have, i could go ex | 00:26 |
trbp | without, who knows if i go ex, though i am pretty sure exposed anyways with alpha or beta | 00:26 |
trbp | but there are no good or bad reasons pro or con | 00:27 |
nixonix | anybody could drop dead today, from lots of reasons. from these vaccines currently approved in the west, esp mrna types, its just very unlikely. check the pic in that tweet | 00:27 |
trbp | people should decide free and understand the problems that can occur | 00:27 |
trbp | nixonix: i do not say that i am the rule here | 00:28 |
trbp | nixonix: i trusted that charts too | 00:28 |
trbp | and most people do have no problems | 00:28 |
nixonix | its just way more likely that they get problems from sars2 infection than these vaccines. IFR from sars2 depends especially on age, but was something like 1% on average with old variants, now possibly 3x that | 00:34 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot → https://is.gd/IoYmkh | 00:35 |
nixonix | from mrna vaccines its something like 10k times lower. sure the difference for young people isnt nearly as big, but especially considering other damages than deaths, theres no question its safer | 00:35 |
nixonix | i tried to find another day if there has been deaths because of mrna vaccine induced myo/pericardites. apparently they havent found one yet | 00:40 |
nixonix | the same with allergic reaction to PEG or whatever the cause, i coundt find any confirmed deaths. if you know there is, please link | 00:42 |
nixonix | so far confirmed deaths induced by mrna vaccines: 0 (i think there might be a few, just not identified, but certainly not many - 1B doses or so probably administered) | 00:43 |
nixonix | so being anti-vax, meaning especially these mrna vaccines, is just lack of knowledge or inability to compare the risks (if its not something like ideology motivated) | 00:45 |
trbp | nixonix: i did not belive that myo/pericardites, too. especially after almost a full week... sounds all strange i know and only because of what happend to me nobody says it happens to all.... | 00:45 |
trbp | and it is not only the rmna vax that can make complications | 00:45 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: What about the risk of automimunne conditions and Covid?An excellent new review @TheLancetRheum ? risk of infection, hospitalization, death; Glucocorticoids increased risk, cytokine inhibitors, vaccination impact https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(21)00247-2/fulltext → https://is.gd/No4glz | 00:46 |
nixonix | "too"? who doesnt believe mrna vaccines can cause myo/pericardites? | 00:46 |
trbp | still vax are good but should be given in a more controlled context than happens now, also with that compulsary subtone most people hang with them | 00:47 |
nixonix | controlled? | 00:47 |
trbp | nixonix: where did you get your vax? | 00:48 |
nixonix | from nurse in vaccination center | 00:48 |
trbp | and that is control for you? | 00:49 |
nixonix | what are you asking for control? | 00:49 |
twomoon | trbp where are you located may i ask? | 00:49 |
trbp | twomoon: heart of europe, germany... with an ever growing force to get compulsary vax | 00:50 |
trbp | nixonix: at least a doctor should make a physis checkup before choosing the vax | 00:51 |
nixonix | for allergic reactions, there is usually 15 min waiting (imo it could be longer). for heart risks, if you are not young male you get like couple months worth myocarditis of risk within week or so. more if you are young male, but still maybe something like years worth of risk | 00:51 |
trbp | the vax temps should be recontrolled | 00:51 |
trbp | and the doctor should follow up | 00:51 |
twomoon | i'm really against compulsory vaccination | 00:51 |
twomoon | but i'm also a pro vaxxer | 00:52 |
nixonix | if you want some heart event panic button for every vaccinated, you sould want them for everybody else too, since normal living, just a bit longer time than that week, is more dangerous for your heart | 00:52 |
trbp | nixonix: those 15min were more likely like 5min with me | 00:52 |
trbp | and that cardiac occurance came a full week after 2nd dose with me | 00:52 |
nixonix | more i hear risk comparisons like this, the more i start to turn towards mandatory vaccines - even for those persons own sake, because its obvious people cant judge things like simple risk comparisons | 00:53 |
trbp | and again i am not the rule here but saying that chart x shows indication z while y die and w live is a bit to easy here | 00:53 |
trbp | nixonix: i hope for your sake you will never find yourself on the wrong side of the line wherever or whenever that will be... | 00:55 |
trbp | nixonix: it is not about a red panic button for everybody but a bit better controlled application | 00:56 |
gry | is there a good test for wheher or not a person has natural immunity, if they didn't get tested for covid at the time they probably had it? | 00:57 |
trbp | and to be frank, even beeing pro vax, we must admit that study conclusion is in some 3 years from now | 00:57 |
nixonix | thre might be a problem in healthcare in your country or region, but the problem isnt in safety of these mrna vaccines. on the contrary, they are extremely safe, and statistics show that | 00:57 |
nixonix | mandatory vaccinations might help for that, reducing the pressure in healthcare... | 00:58 |
trbp | gry i guess there is but that kind of (pcr) test will be too expensive and takes to long for normal use | 00:58 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Guatemala: +3736 cases (now 463753), +50 deaths (now 11818), +15802 tests (now 2.2 million) since a day ago — Ecuador: +360 cases (now 500444), +41 deaths (now 32207), +2731 tests (now 1.8 million) since a day ago | 01:00 |
nixonix | i wonder if i could get double dose pfizer for the 3rd, if theres not shortage anymore that time (if not, then moderna, since more mrna despite worse codon optimization - if confirmed that it wanes slower) | 01:01 |
twomoon | can we do variolation vaccination with covid? | 01:02 |
twomoon | i would like to try that | 01:02 |
LjL | trbp, PCR doesn't test immunity | 01:02 |
LjL | gry, do you mean for someone who got vaccinated later? | 01:03 |
twomoon | https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/08/8ee2cd751fdb-2-men-die-in-japan-after-receiving-dose-of-suspended-moderna-vaccines.html | 01:03 |
trbp | LjL: that is why i put it in pranthesis, i guess he needs more thither test or something alike | 01:03 |
LjL | twomoon, "variolation vaccination" isn't a thing. variolation is the thing that came *before* vaccination, and it killed a lot of people | 01:03 |
twomoon | oh i see | 01:04 |
LjL | nixonix, i'm reading the backscroll and i am perplexed. this whole "turn towards mandatory vaccination" for you started from "<nixonix> what are good reasons to be anti-vax?", to which trbp (who has just had some possible, and serious, side effects from the vaccine, so it's pretty human to assume he's not ecstatic about the vaccine right now) answered. but the one who said "being anti vax is okay" was twomoon, so you should ask him...? | 01:06 |
nixonix | idk how variolation type of things could be done with rona. your own dendritic cells maybe could be inoculated with real virus, but it would kill them all probably, idk | 01:06 |
LjL | i think this sort of exemplifies the sort of misunderstandings and knee-jerk reactions that end up dividing us all into camps | 01:06 |
twomoon | sorry | 01:06 |
nixonix | what was the question? | 01:07 |
LjL | what question? | 01:08 |
nixonix | so there was no question. i posted a link for risk comparison, but it seems it didnt help to compare the risks | 01:08 |
gry | LjL: i mean, they didn't get vaccinated afterwards yet - just wants to do test for whethre or not they had a mild infection previously | 01:08 |
gry | LjL: like asymptomatic or mild | 01:09 |
LjL | gry, well just get an antibody test... sure, it may test negative because the infection was long ago, but if it tests negative then there are reasonable chances they may be re-infected anyway (yes, i know it's not all in the antibodies, but still) | 01:09 |
nixonix | so i dont know what is left, if people are given two revolvers, one with 1 round and one with 5 rounds, to play russian roulette, and many people pick the one with 5 rounds. but to mandate them to pick the one with only 1 round | 01:10 |
gry | LjL: some sources suggest IgM & IgG antibodies are a bad measure because it is another department of immune system that is fighting the infection | 01:10 |
LjL | nixonix, you're saying this based on the replies of someone who's just had a cardiac attack after the vaccine | 01:10 |
LjL | jesus christ | 01:11 |
LjL | can we all be a tiny bit reasonable | 01:11 |
LjL | gry, there are no other tests that are commercially available afaik (T-cells and B-cells are only tested in studies) | 01:11 |
nixonix | maybe, but if it goes on and on with arguments like "i used to believe in myo/pericarditis and statistics too", but i still got the heart issue. there are lots of people in this channel, and this was turning to typical anti-vax arguments | 01:12 |
LjL | okay, then i'll see myself away since i'm watching a movie anyway, feel free to dig deeper into the camp vs camp thing | 01:13 |
nixonix | no, i let it be now | 01:13 |
nixonix | (i still dont support vaccine mandations for most people, just for healthcare and elderly care - but incentives for bar and events use etc, which are temporary anyway) | 01:18 |
nixonix | denmark is going to remove those on couple of weeks. too early imo, but lets see what will happen | 01:19 |
trbp | nixonix: i apologize again if you got that kind of picture from our conversation | 01:22 |
nixonix | np. but get into pcr fast, as long as it still shows up, if it was sars2, so you can prove it | 01:25 |
nixonix | and if vaccine induced, then for possible compensation (or treatment paid by pfizer) | 01:27 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1431418683709030400 | 01:33 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "First, why is it important? Because breaking transmission is the 2nd most important fxn of vaccines, after preventing death directly. Breaking transmission reduces [...] | 01:33 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Fiji: +258 cases (now 45631), +1716 tests (now 371428) since a day ago — Rwanda: +9 deaths (now 1074), +26058 tests (now 2.4 million) since a day ago | 01:37 |
LjL | i feel like crap, as periodically happens, my oxygen saturation moves between 93 and 96 (not saying it's COVID at all, this is something that just periodically happens) | 01:40 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Trinidad and Tobago: +16 cases (now 44015), +855 tests (now 306536) since a day ago | 02:02 |
nixonix | well, i checked the odds that mrna vaccine would cause myo/pericarditis after 2nd dose for something like under 50 yo (using 40-49); | 02:13 |
nixonix | expected from 8.5M 2nd doses within 21 day period: 5-49. observed: 40. so withing expected range, but its possible that there were some cases. not proved though | 02:15 |
nixonix | occurence 5/1M (but within normal background, so they might all be something else than from vaccine) | 02:15 |
nixonix | being just 1 week after 2nd dose probably increases the odds somewhat. but because it was pfizer instead of moderna, it reduces | 02:16 |
nixonix | i think it was this one: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf | 02:19 |
nixonix | so if using the number 27 per 21 days for normal background, and that was 13 more, pfizer half of that is 6.5, that means for that age group 2nd dose of pizer increases the myo/pericarditis risk one weeks worth of normal life | 02:22 |
nixonix | but moderna 2 weeks - both less from first doses. verdict: no myo/pericarditis (where 95% of cases are mild anyway, from mrna vaccine) found for that age group. unlike from sars2 infection | 02:25 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Ukraine: +1808 cases (now 2.3 million), +55 deaths (now 55234) since 22 hours ago — Barbados: +92 cases (now 4881) since a day ago — France: +13522 cases (now 6.8 million) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +2611 cases (now 1.5 million), +11 deaths (now 26921) since 22 hours ago | 02:39 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Why does Michigan, which has a considerably lower vaccination rate than the New England states (shown here), have one of the lowest US case rates (= Vermont, 20/100,000) and hospitalization rates (11/100K)?Prior covid immunity from its hard-hit Alpha wave may be playing a role. → https://is.gd/2l7vfU | 02:46 |
nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.21262161v1?rss=1 pfizer > AZ > Sputnik > Sinopharm | 02:54 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Direct Comparison of Antibody Responses to Four SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines in Mongolia | medRxiv | 02:54 |
LjL | Sinopharm coming out last is now officially a trend | 02:57 |
LjL | what about Sinovac though? | 02:57 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Direct Comparison of Antibody Responses to Four SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines in Mongolia ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/6X8MH2G4 ) | 03:03 | |
nixonix | i would have expected sputnik with two viral vectors to be stronger. at least in their assays az clearly beat it | 03:06 |
nixonix | maybe some existing immunity in convalescent persons for ad5 affected (and thats the case in population too, which is the reason it shouldnt be used imo) | 03:09 |
de-facto | weird that sputnik looks so bad in that paper, i would have expected it to be better | 03:13 |
nixonix | neut abs is not all there is for protection. it matters most for infection and symptoms, and if you dont get either, you wont get severe symptoms or die, so theres hat | 03:15 |
nixonix | +t | 03:15 |
lbr | i had the impression that russians vac is the astra zeneca rebranded | 03:15 |
nixonix | majority of experts seem to think, killer t-cells have the main role in case it goes severe, and that looks to be more lasting for both az and pfizer, maybe for sputnik too (but not everybody agree with them, like leonardi doesnt) | 03:17 |
de-facto | but how come it got lower levels than AZ, Sputnik using heterogeneous adenovirus vectors | 03:18 |
nixonix | indian covishield is az rebranded and manufactured in indian plants | 03:18 |
lbr | those t-cells how u test for them? | 03:18 |
lbr | bone marrow only way? | 03:18 |
nixonix | no, b-cells migrate to bone marrow | 03:21 |
nixonix | t-cells, you can do laborious counting etc, then there are assays that recognize them for their secreted interferons, and possibly other ways too (most dont tell much details on reactivity etc) | 03:22 |
lbr | but which ones stays for longer? | 03:22 |
lbr | memory cells but which are those? | 03:22 |
lbr | t or b? | 03:23 |
nixonix | it should be bone marrow b-cells (although i quoted here something couple of days ago saying something else, but i suppose they had a mistake in their paper) | 03:23 |
lbr | nixonix, u vaccinated? | 03:25 |
nixonix | yep | 03:25 |
lbr | which u got? | 03:25 |
lbr | pfizer? | 03:25 |
nixonix | yeah | 03:25 |
lbr | you know if u had the infection before shot? | 03:25 |
lbr | and was sympthomatic? | 03:25 |
nixonix | cant be sure | 03:26 |
specing | <nixonix> i would have expected sputnik with two viral vectors to be stronger. | 03:26 |
specing | same | 03:26 |
lbr | but if you guys we're to be infected | 03:26 |
lbr | would you still get vacc after? | 03:26 |
specing | yes | 03:27 |
nixonix | yep, but one dose should be enough. the next one then after 6 months or something like that | 03:27 |
specing | my health authority recommends it and my gov requires it | 03:27 |
lbr | werent you guys afraid to get vaccinated?:D | 03:28 |
specing | no | 03:28 |
LjL | i was afraid of being with a lot of people some of which might have COVID while waiting to be vaccinated | 03:28 |
LjL | but it was large and well aerated and i was wearing a good mask | 03:29 |
lbr | i'm afraid ill catch it at the vac point lol | 03:29 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Ivory Coast: +290 cases (now 54856), +8 deaths (now 424) since a day ago — Egypt: +251 cases (now 287644), +8 deaths (now 16714) since 23 hours ago — Gabon: +57 cases (now 25819) since 2 days ago — Paraguay: +11 deaths (now 15686), +3001 tests (now 1.8 million) since 22 hours ago | 03:29 |
lbr | with this delta variant spreads so fast and easy | 03:29 |
lbr | people here have only stupid useless mask | 03:30 |
lbr | no n95 or better | 03:30 |
LjL | you can wear one that's not stupid and useless. a good N95 or N99 mask will protect you, not just others | 03:30 |
lbr | yeah but no chance to get them | 03:30 |
LjL | why | 03:30 |
lbr | or way to expensive and dont sell in low quantity | 03:31 |
LjL | what country? | 03:31 |
lbr | and some are counterfeit | 03:31 |
lbr | ro | 03:31 |
LjL | to be fair, i'm afraid my amazon is out of Auras ;( | 03:31 |
specing | lbr: vac point here was deserted. Only me, 4 others and 5 vaccination staff | 03:31 |
specing | I had to wait ~20 mins for enough people to gather for them to open a vial | 03:32 |
lbr | y but the nurses 99% they have it | 03:32 |
specing | lbr: go there in scuba gear lol | 03:32 |
LjL | lbr, Romania? right now my Amazon doesn't have single 3M Auras, but it did until recently, they were between €5.50 and €7 each, depending on the time. you would have to pay more for the shipping since Amazon doesn't have a site in Romania (around €6 more i think( | 03:32 |
lbr | i see them tested for antibodys and all have them | 03:32 |
lbr | :) | 03:33 |
LjL | well that's annoying, all EU Amazons are out of single Auras, both FFP2 and FFP3 | 03:33 |
LjL | UK has the P3 | 03:34 |
lbr | but you guys are sure those are good ones? | 03:34 |
lbr | i mean from 3m reseller | 03:34 |
lbr | and no some cheap chinese guy | 03:34 |
specing | lbr: you'll have antibodies for months if not years after getting over covid | 03:34 |
LjL | a "cheap chinese guy" will make nothing that looks and feels like an Aura | 03:35 |
lbr | i heard stories with 3m masks from polland | 03:35 |
lbr | counterfeit | 03:35 |
LjL | https://www.amazon.it/dp/B00D04BJ8U €18 for 5, although it's P2 not P3 | 03:35 |
lbr | they bought here | 03:35 |
lbr | the goverment | 03:35 |
specing | lbr: and also months/years after being vaccinated (unless its mrna? LjL ?) | 03:35 |
lbr | to give to hospitals | 03:35 |
lbr | and all were fakes | 03:35 |
lbr | they sent them to belgium for analysis | 03:36 |
LjL | specing, who knows | 03:36 |
LjL | specing, i wouldn't say mRNA is the determinant | 03:36 |
specing | I was hoping you would | 03:36 |
lbr | we dont even have a lab here to test the conformity | 03:36 |
specing | LjL: My understanding is that with viral vector vaccines your body actually has to kill these cells, so you must have antibodies. But with mrna you are only showing the immune system how to recognise infected cells in the future | 03:37 |
LjL | specing, AZ antibodies seem to wane slower than BNT ones, but logically speaking (yes i know logic has limits in medicine), adenoviral vectors still produce mRNA which then causes the S-protein to be produced. it's not *so* different, imo, that one vaccine's antibodies would stay forever, while the other's would disappear completely at some point | 03:38 |
LjL | specing, i don't know about that. the adenovirus itself doesn't reproduce. it may produce multiple copies of the S-protein, but so may the mRNA alone... | 03:38 |
nixonix | antibodies dont kill cells. but vector vaccines produce s-protein in cells longer time (and probably at slower rate), which could possibly be the reason why the protection could wane slower (being lower to begin with) | 03:40 |
nixonix | its all a bit mess, experts dont know what all correlates with the protection | 03:41 |
lbr | and yet we play god with those mrna vaccines:D | 03:42 |
lbr | or new tehnologies | 03:42 |
LjL | maybe we shouldn't have played god with bats to begin with | 03:42 |
nixonix | i didnt | 03:42 |
LjL | that's exactly what a wannabe god would say | 03:43 |
lbr | what if that pig flu | 03:43 |
specing | we definetely should play god with everything | 03:44 |
nixonix | im just curious. and maybe theyll sell some splicing kits in ebay some day | 03:44 |
lbr | spreads like corona from human to human | 03:44 |
* specing maintains that we (humans) are gods | 03:44 | |
lbr | has 60%mortality | 03:44 |
lbr | or its bird flu i forgot | 03:44 |
lbr | we lucky we dont have ebola like corona too | 03:44 |
LjL | we're lucky the last Nipah virus outbreak was contained "quickly" | 03:46 |
LjL | that's a good candidate for a really deadly pandemic | 03:46 |
lbr | i dont think i know that one | 03:46 |
LjL | %wik Nipah virus | 03:46 |
Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Nipah virus, scientific name Nipah henipavirus, is a bat-borne virus that causes Nipah virus infection in humans and other animals, a disease with a high mortality rate. Numerous disease outbreaks caused by Nipah virus have occurred in South and Southeast Asia. Nipah virus belongs to the genus [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipah_virus | 03:46 |
LjL | %wik 2018 Nipah virus outbreak in Kerala | 03:46 |
Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: The 2018 Kerala Nipah virus outbreak was an outbreak of the Nipah virus in India's southern state Kerala, traced to the fruit bats in the area. The outbreak was localized in Kozhikode and Malappuram districts of Kerala and claimed 17 lives, The outbreak was contained and declared over [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Nipah_virus_outbreak_in_Kerala | 03:46 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1431655447161806851 - i see a lot this type of tweets. they dont know | 03:47 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "Israeli data saying they get less breakthru in people with prior alpha infection than Pfizer full-vax is interesting. May be an indication that there is more [...] | 03:47 |
LjL | %wik Virus (2019 film) | 03:48 |
Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Virus is a 2019 Indian Malayalam-language medical thriller film co-produced and directed by Aashiq Abu set against the backdrop of the 2018 Nipah virus outbreak in Kerala. The film was written by Muhsin Parari, Sharfu, and Suhas. It stars an ensemble cast that includes Kunchacko Boban, Asif Ali, [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_(2019_film) | 03:48 |
LjL | nixonix, that paper sure confused people | 03:48 |
lbr | i should start find a remote island and live on it alone=) | 03:48 |
LjL | good luck | 03:49 |
lbr | :) | 03:49 |
nixonix | trouble getting good masks, eric feigl-ding has tweeted a lot about kf-94 masks, and where to order good ones (i think it was some alibaba seller) | 03:50 |
lbr | kf? | 03:50 |
lbr | those are new? | 03:50 |
lbr | i hear kn and other crap | 03:50 |
lbr | but kf lewl | 03:50 |
lbr | also we focus too much on nouse and mouth | 03:51 |
lbr | and forget ear and eyes=) | 03:51 |
de-facto | with all those comparisons (vaccines, recoveries, etc) i miss one thing: immunization age till breakthrough/reinfection | 03:54 |
nixonix | kf94 is a korean standard, close to ffp2 but apparently a bit different type. check his tweets around 2 weeks ago (i saw he recommended models for childern, but prob at some point for adults too) | 03:55 |
de-facto | also: what are they comparing, endpoints? | 03:56 |
LjL | i think it's mostly just that Korean masks tend to be different, with a style more similar to 3M masks than to the classic KN95 masks | 03:56 |
LjL | the standard is incidental | 03:56 |
LjL | it just happens that if you want that type of masks, they are likely to be Korean, so they are likely to be KF94 | 03:57 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1430697968856752140 | 04:05 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "However the fact that Sinovac protection vs death and hospitalization never gets better than 80% suggests that T cell responses, which limit late disease, may not [...] | 04:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for India: +526 deaths (now 437370) since 19 hours ago | 04:06 |
lbr | 437370? | 04:07 |
lbr | wasnt that guy head of gov advisory or smth | 04:07 |
lbr | saying that they have like 4-5 mil deaths of covid in india | 04:07 |
lbr | or they still go with "official' documented cases | 04:08 |
lbr | i dont trust anymore any of those reported cases | 04:08 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1426734824597901317 | 04:08 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): "Sounds like you've been talking to experts that emphasize cell memory for cov2 control instead of antibodies. If you must rely on an immune system [...] | 04:08 |
* archpc peeks in | 04:13 | |
nixonix | when cases in india have gone down showing some degree of herd immunity affecting, considering their median age, vaccine coverage etc i think 4-5M or even more is likely | 04:14 |
Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: So Alex Berenson has *finally* been suspended from Twitter, after months the most putrid, mendacious Covid takes imaginable.Good riddance. But this just means that he’ll be squeezing money out of his fans even harder on other platforms. → https://is.gd/1tfUIb | 04:16 |
nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(21)00247-2/fulltext | 04:22 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: COVID-19 and immune-mediated inflammatory diseases: effect of disease and treatment on COVID-19 outcomes and vaccine responses - The Lancet Rheumatology | 04:22 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/1431334709125124101 | 04:24 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Makris (@ProfMakris): "The #COVID19 Pfizer vaccine was as immunogenic in HIV +ve individuals (almost all of whom had negative HIV viral load) as in HIV -ve health care workers. [...] | 04:24 |
nixonix | that paper i quoted about killer t-cells continuing making damage in airways for months after acute infection. here's leonardi's take: | 04:27 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1430849920848834561 | 04:27 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): "The superantigen will push cd8s to cytotoxicity non-specifically. This will manifest in immune-mediated pathology. I wrote this long ago [...] | 04:27 |
nixonix | i was wondering what could cause it. maybe. it was resembling some snake venoms | 04:28 |
nixonix | no, it was that enzyme that was: | 04:30 |
nixonix | .title https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210824135358.htm | 04:30 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencedaily.com: Like venom coursing through the body: Researchers identify mechanism driving COVID-19 mortality -- ScienceDaily | 04:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Saint Lucia: +337 cases (now 8050), +2 deaths (now 103) since a day ago — Dominica: +299 cases (now 1638), +3 deaths (now 4) since 6 days ago — Mali: +32 cases (now 14846), +1 deaths (now 539) since a day ago | 04:31 |
LjL | <lbr> or they still go with "official' documented cases ← what else would one go on? yes, we know they're really many more than that, but what should the bot (or the Indian government) do, just multiply the numbers they have by 5 and give that? | 04:37 |
LjL | every country is giving their respective official numbers | 04:37 |
LjL | there is no difference between india and anywhere else about that, except of course the amount of undercounting is not the same in all countries (but likely exists to some extent in all) | 04:38 |
LjL | archpc, hi, i had some 93% saturation earlier and felt like shit | 04:38 |
LjL | 83% must feel rather unnice | 04:38 |
lbr | i meant they know there are more cases but they intentionally underreport them to not cuase panic | 04:40 |
LjL | maybe, i have no evidence of that. i have evidence of a very big country with 1.4 billion people and many places with barely any healthcare, so i wouldn't be surprised at cases just being severely underreported "naturally" | 04:43 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1425055635041886222 | 04:47 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Alex Kokcharov (@AlexKokcharov): "In #Russia, the number of officially reported #COVID19 deaths has been hovering just below the 800 per day mark for weeks. Such consistency is statistically [...] | 04:47 |
de-facto | Why dont we have lipid nano particles for mRNA delivery that got a destination address on them, like e.g. the s-protein to target the same cells as SARS-CoV-2 would? | 04:55 |
de-facto | and then spray them in the upper respiratory tract, to target the same cells in the same location where also contamination with SARS-CoV-2 would occur | 04:57 |
nixonix | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00259-021-05528-4 | 05:02 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From link.springer.com: Similar patterns of [18F]-FDG brain PET hypometabolism in paediatric and adult patients with long COVID: a paediatric case series | SpringerLink | 05:02 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/PSHolstein/status/1430171636305641472 | 05:08 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Philipp S. Holstein (@PSHolstein): ""The estimated prevalence of neurological or psychiatric manifestations of COVID-19 was four times more common in hospitalised children and adolescents than in [...] | 05:08 |
nixonix | check the whole thread, and open the thread starting post that is in german, to see even more studies linked in it | 05:09 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 positive man charged after weeks on the run → https://is.gd/QDT5xS | 05:12 |
nixonix | like this (other than that, applied locally, i dont think there are currently good ways to distribute them to just some specific cells. maybe some day): | 05:13 |
nixonix | .title | 05:13 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From is.gd: COVID-19 positive man charged after weeks on the run : worldnews | 05:13 |
nixonix | damn, need sleep | 05:13 |
nixonix | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609147/ | 05:13 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Inhaled Nanoformulated mRNA Polyplexes for Protein Production in Lung Epithelium - PubMed | 05:13 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Texas Anti-Mask 'Freedom Defender' Caleb Wallace Dies Of COVID-19 → https://is.gd/MbxvOh | 05:57 |
Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 798: Rats, more coronaviruses!: The TWiV team explains what the Biden report on SARS-CoV-2 origins did not: evidence that the virus came from Nature, not a lab; and reveals new coronaviruses in rodents that inhabit populated areas in southern China. → https://is.gd/cQ8myN | 06:18 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Britons, unfazed by high Covid rates, weigh their ‘price of freedom’ → https://is.gd/qzicfk | 06:39 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New Zealand Police set up checkpoint to stop people going to see orca pod during lockdown. → https://is.gd/uJ9YuT | 06:50 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Secret army of 200 weapons obsessed ex-soldiers plotting attacks on vaccine centers → https://is.gd/dpuqxu | 07:22 |
Brainstorm | Updates for New South Wales, Australia: +1213 cases (now 24585), +6 deaths (now 143) since a day ago — Veneto, Italy: +864 cases (now 453388), +5 deaths (now 11681) since a day ago — Ceara, Brazil: +862 cases (now 930816), +27 deaths (now 24015) since a day ago — Zuid-Holland, Netherlands: +717 cases (now 459000), +1 deaths (now 4340) since a day ago | 07:38 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A grim warning from Israel: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta → https://is.gd/fcORPp | 07:43 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Japan’s Okinawa suspends Moderna shots after detecting contamination → https://is.gd/fIsp3h | 08:05 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Wuhan facilities shed light on China’s oversight on wildlife use → https://is.gd/qwaX61 | 08:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for India: +45083 cases (now 32.7 million), +839 deaths (now 437687) since 22 hours ago | 08:40 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 29, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/XEQOMO | 09:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Taiwan: +23 cases (now 15983), +1 deaths (now 834) since 17 hours ago | 09:30 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: COVID-19 Is a Vascular Disease: Coronavirus’ Spike Protein Attacks Vascular System on a Cellular Level → https://is.gd/Vrzuop | 10:11 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Unwanted record: Russia’s COVID deaths hit new high in July → https://is.gd/UE6TkI | 11:04 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +10148 cases (now 3.9 million), +34 deaths (now 92631) since 19 hours ago — Estonia: +330 cases (now 141344), +4371 tests (now 1.7 million) since a day ago — Brunei: +82 cases (now 2462), +3035 tests (now 223861) since a day ago | 11:09 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Seventh consecutive weekly protest against France's Covid-19 'health pass' → https://is.gd/fA0sw1 | 11:15 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: NHS blood test tube shortage: Doctors 'facing difficult choices': Doctors call for more guidance after the NHS in England and Wales stops all non-urgent blood tests. → https://is.gd/FjJx10 | 11:25 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Afghanistan: +137 cases (now 153144), +12 deaths (now 7116), +469 tests (now 751100) since 21 hours ago — Israel: +1536 cases (now 1.0 million), +8 deaths (now 6958), +102935 tests (now 19.0 million) since 13 hours ago — Japan: +10720 cases (now 1.4 million), +45 deaths (now 15896), +99437 tests (now 21.5 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 11:34 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: China rejects US Report that says Coronavirus may have come From Wuhan lab → https://is.gd/kaK52L | 11:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +19286 cases (now 6.9 million), +797 deaths (now 181637), +500000 tests (now 178.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Poland: +203 cases (now 2.9 million), +74716 tests (now 19.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Slovakia: +53 cases (now 394710), +2832 tests (now 3.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:59 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna vaccinations halted in Japan’s Okinawa after ‘black substances’ found in vial, days after other batch of jab was suspended → https://is.gd/dyXmN1 | 12:07 |
Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +987 cases (now 716381), +2 deaths (now 2038), +348771 tests (now 74.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Croatia: +377 cases (now 373191), +1 deaths (now 8325), +9570 tests (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Latvia: +196 cases (now 142319), +27297 tests (now 3.5 million) since a day ago | 13:01 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: I was once a hardcore anti-vaxxer. Now I try to nudge people to get the Covid-19 vaccine: As I read a message from a friend who opposes getting vaccinated against Covid-19, I take a breath and try to remember that perspective, that feeling of being so sure… → https://is.gd/G6unvA | 13:11 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +20579 cases (now 1.7 million), +285 deaths (now 16087), +151048 vaccines (now 19.2 million), +132087 tests (now 22.5 million) since a day ago — Indonesia: +7427 cases (now 4.1 million), +551 deaths (now 131923), +786703 vaccines (now 61.2 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 13:38 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: American Academy of Pediatrics - Children and COVID-19: State-Level Data Report → https://is.gd/MPvyYJ | 13:43 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Switzerland Warns of Terror Attacks on Vaccine Sites → https://is.gd/81B10l | 14:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +12645 cases (now 435114), +344 deaths (now 10749) since 23 hours ago — Eq. Guinea: +153 cases (now 9326), +1 deaths (now 124), +4165 tests (now 195087) since 3 days ago — Tunisia: +2265 cases (now 660587), +187 deaths (now 23369), +12141 tests (now 2.6 million) since 20 hours ago [... want %more?] | 14:40 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China asks WHO to investigate Fort Detrick, UNC bio labs for Covid-19 origins - China is requesting a transparent investigation with full access to the labs of Fort Detrick and the University of North Carolina in the US → https://is.gd/E3rTpH | 15:08 |
Arsanerit | ha ha | 15:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +1214 cases (now 759222), +24 deaths (now 10714), +7259 tests (now 3.9 million) since a day ago — Denmark: +538 cases (now 344039), +2 deaths (now 2579), +67228 tests (now 80.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 15:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Iraq: +6083 cases (now 1.9 million), +67 deaths (now 20699), +32313 tests (now 14.3 million) since a day ago — Azerbaijan: +4010 cases (now 417996), +41 deaths (now 5553), +16536 tests (now 4.4 million) since a day ago — Serbia: +1722 cases (now 757617), +9 deaths (now 7266), +9503 tests (now 5.0 million) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 16:07 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: New COVID variant detected in South Africa, most mutated variant so far → https://is.gd/uFT9SR | 16:11 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Hospitalizations in 8 states, >250 hospitals, during the US Delta wave"For June 27 - July 24, hospitalization rates were ≥10 times higher in unvaccinated persons compared with vaccinated persons for all age groups across all weeks"https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.27.21262356v1 #VaccinesWork → https://is.gd/oQutKl | 16:32 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Qatar: +179 cases (now 232366), +6126 tests (now 2.5 million) since a day ago | 16:32 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel offers COVID booster shot to all eligible for vaccine → https://is.gd/r4AwSK | 17:03 |
Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Mesenchymal stem cells in SARS-CoV-2 infection: A hype or hope. → https://is.gd/X4DzSv | 17:14 |
de-facto | Looking at COVID ICU ventialations in Germany | 17:33 |
de-facto | .title https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen | 17:33 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.intensivregister.de: DIVI Intensivregister | 17:33 |
de-facto | Today 2021-08-29 485 compared to 2021-01-04 3211 is ~ 1/6.6 | 17:33 |
de-facto | How many doubling times are that? Log2(3211/485) ~ 2.72 doubling times to reach the niveau of 2021-01-04 with 3211 COVID cases on ICU ventilation | 17:33 |
de-facto | How long is one doubling time? Lets look at the current trends: 2021-08-01 we had 184 ventilations, today 2021-08-29 already 485 | 17:34 |
de-facto | Assuming exponential growth N(t) = N(t0) * 2 ^ ((t - t0)/t2) hence doubling time t2 = (t - t0) * Log2(2) / Log2(N(t) / N(t0)) | 17:34 |
de-facto | We can calculate t2 = (29 - 1) * log2(2) / log2(485/184) ~ 20 days to double the number of ventilations | 17:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Cuba: +6277 cases (now 640438), +77 deaths (now 5144), +47764 tests (now 7.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Myanmar: +3166 cases (now 392300), +106 deaths (now 15183), +29127 tests (now 3.5 million) since 23 hours ago | 17:35 |
de-facto | Ok so how many days till surpassing the peak of 2021-01-04 with 3211 ventilations? it takes 2.72 * t2 = 2.72 * 20 ~ 54 days that would be 2021-10-22 | 17:35 |
de-facto | Comparing last years value: 2020-10-22 we had 459 ventilations, hence if we would get 3211 ventilations at that date in year 2021 it would be 3211/459 ~ 7-fold as bad | 17:35 |
de-facto | This has to be stopped by force. | 17:35 |
trbp | force? ;) | 17:35 |
trbp | that are german numbers you are citing, are they not? | 17:36 |
trbp | would be enough if the med-system would work as it was 40+ years ago, i guess... | 17:37 |
de-facto | Yes the numbers for Germany, the trends just can not be tolerated to continue like that | 17:38 |
de-facto | we urgently need non-pharmaceutical interventions | 17:38 |
trbp | de-facto: i guess you are thinking about new lockdown rounds? | 17:40 |
de-facto | what ever is necessary to break this exponential growth of ICU ventilations must be done immediately | 17:41 |
de-facto | if its not done in time we will see what happens when the healthcare system is overwhelmed this winter in Germany | 17:43 |
de-facto | Last year it *began* with the steep growth in ICU ventilations mid of October, so if we are alread 7-fold as bad this year this will be apocalyptic | 17:44 |
chile09[m] | n-95/99 masks + Ivermectin + open the windows in buildings | 17:45 |
chile09[m] | rapid antigen testing + monoclonal antibodies | 17:46 |
de-facto | And quite frankly, removing incidence limits, making testing not free anymore etc does NOT help with containing this horrible trend | 17:46 |
trbp | chile09[m]: besides ivermectin and your antibods all are set in germany afaik | 17:47 |
trbp | i doubt that ivermectin and the antibods would do a big difference | 17:47 |
de-facto | I am pretty sure that those patients that receive ICU care get the latest and greatest treatment methods available, still ending up on ventilator is a VERY bad sign, afaik half of them dont survived that in 2020 | 17:48 |
de-facto | about half of the ICU patients end up on ventilator and about half of those in grave | 17:48 |
de-facto | (those were the 2020 numbers, not sure how much it changed 2021) | 17:49 |
trbp | de-facto: i am pretty sure that to get last and greatest treatment in a system where profit and market share are ruling is a bit too much trust... | 17:49 |
de-facto | i can get pretty much any treatment i ask for and that for free (insurance will cover any medically approved methods, even if expensive) | 17:51 |
de-facto | the healthcare system really does a very good job here, the problems are the infection rates | 17:52 |
de-facto | hence we must go back to restricting incidence at any costs | 17:52 |
de-facto | there must be only one rule: R<1 | 17:52 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +43868 cases (now 6.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +5954 cases (now 4.5 million), +37 deaths (now 129093), +223086 tests (now 83.6 million) since 23 hours ago — Greece: +1581 cases (now 581315), +37 deaths (now 13581), +56515 tests (now 15.4 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 17:59 |
Arsanerit | at any costs? | 18:16 |
de-facto | absolutely | 18:19 |
Arsanerit | The aim justifies the means? | 18:22 |
Arsanerit | When there's a contagious disease among farmed animals, humans tend to respond by killing all animals (of the same species) in a certain radius. | 18:22 |
de-facto | what ever is necessary to break this exponential growth of ICU ventilations must be done immediately | 18:23 |
trbp | "an der rampe rechts" | 18:24 |
de-facto | usually that means stricter NPIs | 18:24 |
trbp | sry for those not knowing german | 18:24 |
trbp | and sry for that nazi stance | 18:24 |
trbp | but that sounds to bad at any cost | 18:25 |
trbp | s/to/too | 18:25 |
de-facto | no compromises can be made as any compromise is in favor of pathogen spread, we have to achieve R<1, preferably with the most efficient methods available to contain the spread | 18:26 |
trbp | for those who wonder what an der rampe rechts means, nazis sent jews on the ramp right or left... | 18:26 |
de-facto | so especially we cant tolerate compromises being made for the elections, such as removing free testing etc | 18:26 |
trbp | lol de-facto we make compromises for the election but otherwise an der rampe rechts? | 18:27 |
de-facto | we need much much more tests, otherwise we would need more restrictive containment | 18:27 |
trbp | sry again to exaggerate | 18:27 |
Arsanerit | Yes, "at any cost" sounds too bad | 18:27 |
Arsanerit | The cure cannot be worse than the disease. | 18:28 |
Arsanerit | In sci-fi stories of mankind-ending pandemics the military shoot anyone breaking quarantine no-sight. I would object such a measure. | 18:28 |
de-facto | you know what i mean, we cant tolerate compromises, because we already are much worse than last year | 18:29 |
Arsanerit | Yes, I know what you mean. | 18:29 |
Arsanerit | I disagree with what you say (write), not with what you mean ;-) | 18:29 |
trbp | we need much more calming down, after coping here with my very own private oh sooo seldom sideeffects with cominarty 2nd dose i guess we should be a bit more taken back, all those panicing does not help nobody, that does not mean i am antivax but as i decided myself for the vax with complications, people anxious of getting ill should take their very own precautions | 18:29 |
de-facto | that is why i took a look at the very worst case, ICU ventilations over time | 18:30 |
Arsanerit | my colleague claims he's still suffering from comirnaty side-effects after five weeks and that he has prohibited his teenage children from taking it (in Germany, teenagers need parental consent for the vaccine) | 18:30 |
de-facto | if we can stop that with more vaccinations, great, but if we need more restrictive measures in terms of NPIs to accompany that, it must be done, regardless if elections come or not | 18:30 |
trbp | Arsanerit: after my own experience i do not doubt anymore such stories, though i accept that vaxing is wise but that rushing into any kind of shortminded solution is not... | 18:31 |
de-facto | and i think that is the case, we are in urgent need for more NPIs | 18:31 |
de-facto | maybe, if we massively increased testing, we could prevent that for some time, but since the contrary is the case we are in need for some NPIs that replace the missing tests | 18:32 |
Arsanerit | I agree vaccinating is wise, but I think we shouldn't equate people doubting the wisdom of vaccinating all teenagers when herd immunity is out of reach anyway with crazy conspiracy theorists. | 18:32 |
trbp | well know can we again say, who cares rampe rechts for those little percentile with complications... but do we not do here use 2 different standards? | 18:32 |
Arsanerit | How are ICUs and casualty figures in UK, Netherlands, Denmark which don't have any restrictions and have had many cases before Germany did? | 18:32 |
trbp | vax rampe rechts is ok, but virulent rampe rechts not? | 18:33 |
trbp | in my eyes all selfmade we should have in all that countries enough beds and equipment | 18:33 |
trbp | but going years and years for full profit in med sector | 18:33 |
trbp | now all are whining | 18:34 |
de-facto | politicized scientific topics *always* will end up suboptimal. | 18:34 |
Arsanerit | is it ethical and wise to discuss 3rd doses when people in Nigeria eagerly wait for their first? | 18:34 |
trbp | put atop a mediocre little pandemic like that what we have here and all hail goes to those who panics loudest | 18:34 |
de-facto | we dont even have enough first doses in Germany | 18:35 |
trbp | de-facto: that is out dated data | 18:35 |
de-facto | latest fit of 1st doses with a logistic function will end up at ~65%-ish | 18:35 |
trbp | de-facto: we even cope to send those doses fast enough to other countries that are not taken/wanted by our population | 18:35 |
oneno[m] | Horowitz: 15 studies that indicate natural immunity from prior infection is more robust than the COVID vaccines | 18:35 |
oneno[m] | https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-15-studies-that-indicate-natural-immunity-from-prior-infection-is-more-robust-than-the-covid-vaccines | 18:35 |
oneno[m] | These are NOT vaccines! | 18:35 |
de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/I794kqS https://i.imgur.com/mliDkSj.jpeg src: https://impfdashboard.de/static/data/germany_vaccinations_timeseries_v2.tsv | 18:36 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Vaccinated people as function of time - Album on Imgur | 18:36 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: indeed, the rest either can't or don't want yet or don't want at all | 18:36 |
Arsanerit | many people are uncertain about vaccinating teenagers or children | 18:36 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, but the very very latest data points lay above the logistic fit, so maybe people change their mind | 18:37 |
de-facto | accumulated 1st dose (normalized to 1) is blue, vaccination rate in percent per day in yellow, residual (data minus fit) in green | 18:38 |
oneno[m] | The coronavirus contact reports say the rushed, untested vaccines are dangerous. | 18:39 |
oneno[m] | https://ca.figu.org/coronavirus.html | 18:39 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: yes, but would that make enough of a difference to bring R<1? From what I've understood, herd immunity with delta is not realistic? | 18:39 |
de-facto | oh and 100-fold that residual to make it visible | 18:39 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Coronavirus digest: Singapore is now the most vaccinated country → https://is.gd/Ud5Uhp | 18:39 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, nope it would not reach R<1 alone, its just one factor in containment together with NPIs | 18:39 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: isn't the increase due to the Stiko recommending vaccines for 12-17 yo | 18:39 |
de-facto | and it lowers the portion of infections ending up in ICU and on ventilations | 18:39 |
Arsanerit | I mean the latest data points laying above the logistic fit | 18:40 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, hmm interesting theory, maybe that could be the case indeed | 18:40 |
Arsanerit | maybe there's data per age group to test this? | 18:40 |
oneno[m] | What about therapeutics like Ivermectin that has demonstrated 90% plus reduction in deaths and hosputalizations? | 18:41 |
oneno[m] | Can the WHO, CDC, NIAID, governmental organizations be trusted with the data they publish favoring vaccines? | 18:42 |
de-facto | yes because its independently and constantly monitored worldwide in many countries, and they do know that | 18:43 |
de-facto | there are tons of papers independently published on preprint servers etc, so any falsified data would appear as a red light in front of the eyes of international scientific community, hence kill the reputation of the publisher | 18:44 |
Arsanerit | my colleagues were wondering if the changed advice from stiko is the result of political pressure | 18:45 |
de-facto | so reputable organizations would not do such things, because they would ruin themselves | 18:45 |
Arsanerit | as stiko continued to not recommend teenage vaccinations for a while longer than others | 18:45 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, no STIKO did not change the advice | 18:45 |
Arsanerit | oh, then I misunderstood | 18:45 |
de-facto | they said before that they did not have enough data yet | 18:45 |
Arsanerit | ah ok | 18:46 |
oneno[m] | The WHO, CDC. NIAID have been caught lying about HCQ and Ivermectin studies forcing them to list the two as alternate treatments. | 18:46 |
de-facto | so they basically said "wait until we got enough data points, but if you really want to, you can already vaccinated risk group regardless of our final recommendation" | 18:46 |
Arsanerit | ok | 18:47 |
de-facto | they never said pro/contra vaccination of children before their final recommendation, they just said they are accumulating data, which is perfectly reasonable standpoint imho | 18:47 |
Arsanerit | agreed | 18:47 |
Arsanerit | I don't have a good answer when people say they worry about vaccinating teenagers due to unknown long-term effect of developing bodies. | 18:48 |
oneno[m] | Take the COVID-19 Test to corroborate the BEAM coronavirus contact reports. | 18:48 |
oneno[m] | https://theyflyblog.com/2020/09/new-online-covid-19-test/ | 18:48 |
Arsanerit | what is BEAM? | 18:48 |
oneno[m] | Billy Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM) | 18:48 |
pwr22 | I have been summoned | 18:50 |
oneno[m] | Dr. Pierre Kory (MD) and Frontline Covid Critical Care has testified before the US Senate Committee on the effectiveness of Ivermectin, the MATH+ protocol, and the I-MASK+ protocol | 18:51 |
oneno[m] | https://covid19criticalcare.com/ | 18:51 |
pwr22 | <oneno[m]> "The WHO, CDC. NIAID have been ca" <- I'm not sure they have. Could you link to some reputable evidence on it? | 18:51 |
oneno[m] | FLCCC ALLIANCE NEWS CONFERENCE | 18:53 |
oneno[m] | December 4, 10:30 am (CST) at United Memorial Medical Center in Houston, Texas | 18:53 |
oneno[m] | https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/videos-and-tutorials-on-ivermectin/electronic-press-kit-dec-4-2020/ | 18:53 |
pwr22 | We don't really allow conspiracy level / non-evidence based "alternative facts" to be presented equally with the stuff that that's more substantiated in this room | 18:53 |
oneno[m] | Neither the FLCCC nor BEAM are conspiracy. | 18:54 |
oneno[m] | Looking at CDC site for HCQ and Ivermecting. | 18:54 |
oneno[m] | The Latest Results of Ivermectin’s Success in Treating Outbreaks of COVID-19 | 18:55 |
oneno[m] | https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/epidemiologic-analyses-on-covid19-and-ivermectin/ | 18:55 |
oneno[m] | * The Latest Results of Ivermectin’s Success in Treating Outbreaks of COVID-19 | 18:55 |
oneno[m] | https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/epidemiologic-analyses-on-covid19-and-ivermectin | 18:55 |
oneno[m] | * Looking at CDC site for HCQ and Ivermecting | 18:56 |
oneno[m] | * Looking at CDC site for HCQ and Ivermectin. | 18:56 |
Arsanerit | is covid19criticalcare.com peer reviewed? | 18:57 |
pwr22 | oneno: no link spam please | 18:58 |
oneno[m] | Information to Share With Your Doctor | 18:58 |
oneno[m] | https://covid19criticalcare.com/guide-for-this-website/take-action-and-share-the-infos-with-your-doctor/ | 18:58 |
pwr22 | Ok ban time it is then | 18:58 |
Raf[m] | It's not a manuscript, it's a consortium of hospitals that developed a treatment protocol based off research | 18:58 |
Raf[m] | Yeah these links are a bit too much | 18:58 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Breakthrough COVID cases: Uncommon and often mild, but not always → https://is.gd/IQvBDu | 19:00 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Chile: +595 cases (now 1.6 million), +44 deaths (now 36885), +56139 tests (now 20.2 million) since a day ago — Moldova: +204 cases (now 266988), +4 deaths (now 6394), +3218 tests (now 1.6 million) since a day ago | 19:02 |
Timvde | Arsanerit: looking at the contents of that site, I'm pretty sure it's not :P | 19:05 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Israel's booster shot program opened to all age ≥12, 5 months out https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/covid-19-in-israel-number-of-serious-patients-rises-again-hospital-strike-goes-on-678025"those who received a booster are ten times more protected from infection and serious symptoms compared to those who just got two [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/puErvo | 19:21 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Morocco: +3841 cases (now 853373), +76 deaths (now 12437), +29077 tests (now 8.9 million) since 22 hours ago | 19:39 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: "This brings vaccine efficacy for booster-vaccinated individuals to ~95%, similar to the original "fresh" vaccine efficacy reported agains the Alpha strain""For people with >12-days lag btwn the booster vaxx &severe illness...decreased relative risk of severe disease 15.5 fold" → https://is.gd/oshLVg | 19:42 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Jamaica: +929 cases (now 66663), +21 deaths (now 1504), +2669 tests (now 545088) since a day ago | 20:04 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New COVID variant detected in South Africa, most mutated variant so far → https://is.gd/UmXW9C | 20:14 |
LjL | "Scientists first detected C.1.2 in May 2021, finding that it was descended from C.1, which scientists found surprising as C.1 had last been detected in January." :\ | 20:27 |
LjL | "The study found consistent increases in the number of C.1.2 genomes in South Africa on a monthly basis, rising from 0.2% of genomes sequenced in May to 1.6% in June and then to 2% in July, similar to the increases seen with the Beta and Delta variants there." | 20:39 |
LjL | "The study also found that the C.1.2 lineage has a mutation rate of about 41.8 mutations per year, which is nearly twice as fast as the current global mutation rate of the other variants." | 20:39 |
de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.20.21262342v2 | 21:01 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: The continuous evolution of SARS-CoV-2 in South Africa: a new lineage with rapid accumulation of mutations of concern and global detection | medRxiv | 21:01 |
Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +7740 cases (now 2.8 million), +134 deaths (now 81595), +45534 tests (now 16.4 million) since a day ago | 21:06 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Another new Israeli preprint quantifies the extent to waning immunity, for both infections and severe illness, by age group. Bottom figure for age > 60, the earliest group to receive vaccinationhttps://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/vaccine-efficacy-safety-follow-up-committee/he/files_publications_corona_immunity-waning-082021.pdf → https://is.gd/DKdrzb | 21:17 |
twomoon | hello trbp | 21:19 |
twomoon | how are you doing? | 21:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for France: +60 deaths (now 114291) since 23 hours ago | 21:31 |
Raf[m] | <pwr22> "But this one should not quote..." <- Still quotes for me. I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to look like | 21:35 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: The preliminary findings from Israel today of the booster >10-fold reduction of severe illness aligns with the what has been established for primary vaccination efficacy and neutralizing level antibodies → https://is.gd/UmpxRL | 22:20 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Here are the Pfizer neutralizing antibody results from a 306 participant study of their booster (otherwise unpublished to date), >3 times the levels of 2nd dose response, with 1 month follow-up (median follow-up time 2.6 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/FmJLAy | 23:03 |
Brainstorm | Updates for N. Cyprus: +476 cases (now 16151), +7 deaths (now 59) since 2 days ago — Djibouti: +13 cases (now 11741) since a day ago | 23:10 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Togo: +339 cases (now 21037), +3 deaths (now 180) since a day ago | 23:35 |
Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Stop the dreaming. We should be going after this flat out. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/04/vaccines-can-protect-against-many-coronaviruses-could-prevent-another-pandemic @ScienceMagazine @sciencecohen → https://is.gd/QelBTR | 23:45 |
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