libera/##covid-19/ Friday, 2023-03-24

BrainstormUpdates for Ethiopia: +43 cases, +1 deaths since a day ago00:09
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD   (@michaelzlin): Ds and Rs worried that collection of user data by a foreign entity could harm Americans. Legislation banning such collection being discussed.Collection of viruses known to start lethal pandemics by foreign entities... well we just gave more $ for [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/163904591243261952000:30
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Articles] Assessing COVID-19 pandemic policies and behaviours and their economic and educational trade-offs across US states from Jan 1, 2020, to July 31, 2022: an observational analysis: COVID-19 magnified the polarisation and persistent social, economic, and [... want %more?] → https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)00461-0/fulltext00:40
BrainstormNew from Outbreak News Today: Peru: Acute flaccid paralysis case reported in Loreto region infant, Case is under investigation: NewsDesk @bactiman63 The Peru Ministry of Health (Minsa) reported the following in the case of a minor with acute [... want %more?] → http://outbreaknewstoday.com/peru-acute-flaccid-paralysis-case-reported-in-loreto-region-infant-case-is-under-investigation-50862/00:59
ferretde-facto: what do you think should i take 7 days of paxlovid or 8 :D01:29
de-factoask your MD01:55
de-factoi am not that familiar with that treatment and have no experience with it, i only know that there were some reports of rebounds01:55
de-factoferret, how are you feeling with taking it? does it have any negative effects ?01:56
BrainstormNew from Outbreak News Today: Utah reports 1st measles case since 2017: NewsDesk @bactiman63 Today, Salt Lake County Health Department (SLCoHD) announced a case of measles in a Salt Lake County resident who traveled outside the U.S; the resident was not vaccinated against the disease. This is the first [... want %more?] → http://outbreaknewstoday.com/utah-reports-1st-measles-case-since-2017/01:57
ferretde-facto: pretty good i did notice some sores in the mouth02:06
ferretkind of like if you eat to much candy02:06
ferretbut other then that pretty good02:06
ferrettype of sifilius02:07
ferretoops02:07
ferreti mean aphthorus ulcer02:07
de-factointeresting, maybe try some chamomile tea, but i guess they are supposed to heal once you went through with this02:10
de-factowhen i had it back in last September (about 9 months after my 3rd Moderna vaccination) I had painful sore throat and some sniffles at the end, i was negative after 8 days on quicktest, never got fever or headache or loss of taste or such02:12
de-factoi did not really take any meds because I was mostly fine (except for the sore throat)02:13
de-factoferret, you are going to be fine too, just take good care of yourself and you will have gained the newest type of immunity (as in up to date to latest variant) you can get :D02:15
ferretde-facto: paxlovid is amazing02:15
ferreti cant beleve it like the sore throat all the above even cough went away within 3 days02:16
ferretbecause i started it on day 002:16
de-factoso you had it and it was resolved by taking Paxlovid?02:16
ferretits like it made covid seem like it was nothing02:16
ferretlol02:16
ferretyea02:16
de-factonice glad to hear02:16
ferretthe doctor gave me another box of paxlovid and said to do some testing02:17
ferreteither 7 to 10 days total02:17
ferretbut this is new this is just testing02:17
ferretto prevent rebound02:17
de-factobut my sore throat also just lasted about 3 days then faded away, i had the impression that it "went up my nose" because after the sore throat went away my nose started running :P02:17
de-factohow many days are you supposed to take it according to your MD?02:18
de-factoin total02:18
de-factoah you said total above02:18
ferret7 to 10 days expermental02:18
ferretall the way up to 15 if needed02:18
de-factoyeah i mean that would be pretty much similar to the recovery time i experienced myself too (without Paxlovid)02:19
ferretthis is just for testing02:19
ferretde-facto: up the nose lol02:19
de-factoso maybe it makes sense because then the immune system got the newest generation of antibodies ready and flooding your system02:19
de-factoafter 8-10 days or such02:19
de-factoyeah ferret it was very strange i had nothing in the nose (other than really positive quicktests) for the first few days02:20
de-factonot sore or running but my throat really hurt, hence i was constantly drinking tea02:20
ferretthats interesting !!02:20
de-factoidk maybe the virus was there but the immune reaction started in the throat and then the "army" went up to clear the nasal cavity?02:21
ferretde-facto: i hear the omicron variants use ACE inhibitors which multiply in the throat02:21
ferretand in the nose i think02:21
ferretits strange02:22
de-factoi havent followed the latest research in Omicron variants, my last reading was "XBB.1.5 is going to take over US" (back then was maybe 10%-20%) and then when you said you were positive and i looked it was like 90% so indeed took over02:23
ferretmy mom knows way more then i do she's a doctor and tells me all these things but shes at a different level then i am02:23
ferreti should get her on IRC02:24
ferretlol02:24
de-factohehe why not :)02:24
de-factoferret, how many days of Paxlovid left?02:25
ferretim on day 4 so far02:26
de-factonice so almost half time then02:26
ferrettested positive yesterday i couldnt beleve it02:26
de-factowhy?02:26
de-factoit helps the immune system to wrestle down the virus population, but it does not magically clear all virions02:28
ferretde-facto: :D02:29
ferreti could feel it in my body like i was sneezing coughing a little the runny nose the virus was running its course but the sore throat chills fever were gone02:30
ferretbringing the viral load from like 5000 to like 200 or something lol02:30
ferreti wish i could get the actual viral load in my body at the time but its not possible :|02:31
de-factoyeah it would require a quantitative sampling and test, not so easy02:31
de-factobut some labs offer to give you the CT value of PCR tests, hence how many cycles they required to amplify the sample towards detection threshold, the fewer doublings required the more virus was in the sample02:32
de-factoif it was still infectious is another question though, it may also be "garbage" that was about to be cleared02:33
ferretde-facto: oh nice!!02:35
de-factobut you dont have a comparison value nor are samples taken in a reproducible way in terms of viral load, and afaik they dont use a comparison marker to determine the sample concentration, hence CT values only matter if you average them out over very large cohorts02:38
de-factoe.g. large groups of people that have their tests come back positive02:38
LjLCT values may also not be comparable across different labs I think02:44
de-factoyes02:57
BrainstormUpdates for Guatemala: +556 cases, +8208 tests since 23 hours ago — Peru: +382 cases, +8 deaths, +13769 tests since 23 hours ago — Norway: +100 cases since 23 hours ago03:03
BrainstormUpdates for Togo: +11 cases, +153 tests since 3 days ago04:06
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Risk Factors for Post−COVID-19 Condition → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/1209t6b/risk_factors_for_postcovid19_condition/06:08
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Nirmatrelvir and the Risk of Post–COVID-19 Condition → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/1209wfr/nirmatrelvir_and_the_risk_of_postcovid19_condition/06:18
ferretde-facto: have you had Covid-19 more then once ?06:22
ferretgoing on 4 times here06:22
ferret:D06:22
ferret3 times == *06:23
ferretfirst time in school we were playing the covid game where we would all get close together spin the bottle if it landed on you had to kiss the person with Covid. second time was unknown and this time was licking a hospital door knob lol06:26
ferretthe pain of gaining immunity to a new virus06:27
ferretbut mabeeey ill pass my genes off when i get married to the next offspring that will have more immunity06:27
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): Will it be able to drive another infection wave in W Europe or N America again? Possibly, but wave will probably be smallish based on difference in growth advantage with current XBB lineages. → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/163914276289221427206:56
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): That we will get waves of decreasing amplitude not 100% certain by the way - the latest XBB.1.5*+XBB.1.9* hospitalisation wave in Belgium (only counting hosps for Covid) was still a little bigger than expected. But trend looking good for the moment. pic.twitter.com/a7TGDMBZYa → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/163914580750393344107:06
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): This was the variant data for Belgium, clearly mapping onto the subsequent hospitalisation waves shown above (for Omicron only the Sept 2022 wave was contact pattern driven)... pic.twitter.com/CuOl8vtNgJ → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/163914581059111321707:16
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | March 24, 2023: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/120c5n1/daily_discussion_thread_march_24_2023/08:04
BrainstormNew from Science-Based Medicine: Medical “Conservatives” Are Medical Radicals: Any doctor who pushes for the repeated mass infection of unvaccinated babies and toddlers with a novel, mutating virus, when an effective vaccine is available, is a medical radical. The post  first appeared on [... want %more?] → https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-conservatives-are-medical-radicals/08:23
BrainstormUpdates for Singapore: +20518 cases since 15 days ago — India: +1249 cases, +2 deaths, +192909 tests since 23 hours ago — Germany: +5635 cases, +157 deaths since 23 hours ago09:05
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: London Lonely Girls Club gains thousands of new members: The London Lonely Girls Club has "grown spectacularly" since pandemic restrictions were lifted. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-6496393709:20
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: A research and development (R&D) roadmap for broadly protective coronavirus vaccines: A pandemic preparedness strategy → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/120f91o/a_research_and_development_rd_roadmap_for_broadly/10:49
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): The best timing is more difficult to assess. Early termination due to SARS-CoV-2 infection in non-vaccinated mums to be is a danger. However, with immunity and endemic SARS-CoV-2, 3rd trimester vaccination may turn out the best advice. → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/163920755304001945811:19
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Identification of Clinical Response Predictors of Tocilizumab Treatment in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Based on Single-Center Experience → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/120ga26/identification_of_clinical_response_predictors_of/11:38
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 24MAR23 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/120gtl2/global_covid_cases_for_24mar23/12:07
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on testing for COVID-19 by week and country: Data in multiple file formats with information about testing volume for COVID-19, sorted by week and country, and updated on a weekly basis. → https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/covid-19-testing12:17
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Dr. Osterholm caught COVID (mildly sick; wishing him a speedy recovery!) → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/120i75c/dr_osterholm_caught_covid_mildly_sick_wishing_him/13:17
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: A randomized phase I/II safety and immunogenicity study of the Montanide-adjuvanted SARS-CoV-2 spike protein-RBD-Fc vaccine, AKS-452 → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/120iqdk/a_randomized_phase_iii_safety_and_immunogenicity/13:37
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +12493 cases, +35 deaths since 23 hours ago14:05
* LjL really wishes he could feel convinced that ferret isn't serious about licking hospital door knobs14:09
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: NIAID CIVICs (@niaidcivics): The Pasetti Lab at @UMmedschool researches vaccines and immunology to understand how protective immunity can be induced in animal models and humans following infection and vaccination. They welcome staff & postdoc applications on a rolling basis! #meetCIVICs [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/niaidcivics/status/163925126333347020914:17
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: (translated) Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Background vaccine production;sciencedirect.com/science/articl… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/163925663539779584014:27
BrainstormNew from r/COVID19: COVID19: Unraveling the Underlying Molecular Mechanism of 'Silent Hypoxia' in COVID-19 Patients Suggests a Central Role for Angiotensin II Modulation of the AT1R-Hypoxia-Inducible Factor Signaling Pathway → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/120kb1y/unraveling_the_underlying_molecular_mechanism_of/14:37
de-factoSARS-CoV-2 as a respiratory RNA virus apparently got a rapid enough antigenic drift to evade the most prevalent immunity induced by waves of previous variants of this virus, hence is able to create variants that can spread in a population that still has widespread immunity from a previous variant, we have seen tons of papers about the immune evasive properties with COVID15:01
de-factohence deliberately getting infected and getting COVID does not really make any progress towards an "universal immunity against COVID" (which does not exist, due to the fast speed COVID can evade as described above), but rather does increase the probability to get long lasting COVID symptoms (aka long COVID), hence id want to avoid getting COVID15:04
de-factoalso getting COVID does not change genes or such, hence independent of how many times someone got COVID there will be no immunity passed with reproducing later15:04
de-factoonly for diseases that are able to *kill off* a very significant part of a population (most of the individuals) the surviving may have had some genetic property _in advance_ that increased their survival likelihood hence if those have a higher probability to reproduce (due to not getting killed by the disease) their genes will introduce some (randomly occurring) pre-existing genetic advantage in surviving _this specific_ disease15:07
de-factoi dont think that with COVID there is a significant enough selection pressure in the population at reproduction age15:09
de-factothe mortality rate for COVID doubled for the first variants (and without pre-existing immunity) with each age increase by 5.75 years15:10
de-factobut in total its simply not deadly enough to really select at reproduction age, the signal will drown in noise of other selection factors15:11
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): And yes, those vaccines work, also during pregnancy to protect the newborns. That is saving lives!twitter.com/Marc_Veld/stat… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/163927072968529510515:27
BrainstormUpdates for Japan: +8639 cases, +49 deaths, +91739 tests since a day ago — Syria: +11 cases since 11 days ago16:03
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): LACTYFERRIN  Forte and ZINC Defense  and Standard of Care (SOC) vs SOC in the Treatment of Non-hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0578318016:06
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Evaluation of Safety & Efficacy of MIR 19   Inhalation Solution in Patients With Mild COVID-19 → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0578320616:16
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD   (@michaelzlin): For the future, this suggests it will be critical for the immunocompromised to keep up with boosters or take antiviral meds, so to avoid SARSCoV2 further weakening their already weak immune systems. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/163929676694333031517:06
LjLyes, that is an example why i'm still scared of COVID17:13
LjLthat being this https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-immune-damage-study/17:13
LjLwe keep discovering new unforeseen ways it damages us17:14
LjLthis one may only apply to unvaccinated people... but does it? what about other ones?17:14
LjL(de-facto, pwr22, ublix...)17:14
LjLublx even17:14
de-facto%title https://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(23)00125-517:22
Brainstormde-facto: From www.cell.com: Robust T cell responses to Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine compared to infection and evidence of attenuated peripheral CD8+ T cell responses due to COVID-19: Immunity17:22
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Shifts in human gut microbiome due to COVID-19 → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV/comments/120pbs8/shifts_in_human_gut_microbiome_due_to_covid19/17:25
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): People who catch Omicron are less likely to get Long CovidVaccination, virus biology may be driving down riskscience.org/content/articl… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/163930385090869248117:35
pwr22I think any serious infection probably has a noticeable effect on overall health, including immune health, for some time at least17:40
pwr22If you really look properly for these things they'll be found, and COVID causes nasty disease and it's under a lot of scrutiny17:41
pwr22So it's not really surprising to me17:41
pwr22I'd always get the boosters anyway, I have literally suffered long term harm to my health due to not treating my asthma properly and getting flu jabs17:42
pwr22I only really started taking it seriously when I had too17:42
pwr22Possibly the same will be a thing for COVID of people stop taking it seriously? 🤷‍♂️17:42
de-facto%title https://imgur.com/a/DQFYRYs17:46
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Incidence and SARS-CoV-2 VoCs - Album on Imgur17:46
de-factolooks like XBB.1.5 also arrived in Germany17:46
de-factoLjL, ^^17:46
LjLi'm surprised it took so long to come to europe18:01
LjLbut now i'm having my beauty sleep18:01
LjLpwr22, well, from what i know on booster duration, i'd get a booster right about now. but i can't, i've already had four shots (my parents five, but i'm not 60)18:02
LjLi doubt the current government will be rushing to provide more shots18:03
LjLthey actually closed down the vaccine center i've used since 202018:03
LjLit was the biggest in italy and i was lucky enough to live next to it18:03
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD   (@michaelzlin): Unvaccinated people showed (partial) CD8+ T-cell suppression after SARSCoV2 infection.A bit too late for the anti-vaxxers, but it was always obvious that letting a virus munch on your organs and vasculature and set off some large-scale immune [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/163931291841529856018:15
pwr22Ah, there haven't been vaccine places here for a while either18:17
pwr22They are given either in a doctors or a pharmacy18:18
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD   (@michaelzlin): For the future, this suggests it will be critical for the immunocompromised to keep up with boosters or take antiviral meds, so to avoid SARSCoV2 further weakening their already weak immune systems. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/163931292054181478518:25
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD   (@michaelzlin): On the bright side, natural infection does make better neutralizing antibodies, and those are generally correlated with protection from disease. But again if you're IC or older, sufficient nAb levels are not guaranteed.twitter.com/VirusesImmunit… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/163931746448300032218:34
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Intranasal trimeric sherpabody inhibits SARS-CoV-2 including recent immunoevasive Omicron subvariants [TriSb92 could be useful as a nasal spray] → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/120rfsd/intranasal_trimeric_sherpabody_inhibits_sarscov2/18:44
BrainstormNew from r/Science: science: A new study has found that male but not female babies born to women who tested positive for SARS‐CoV‐2 during pregnancy were more likely to be diagnosed with a neurodevelopmental disorder in their first 12 months → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/120tiwc/a_new_study_has_found_that_male_but_not_female/20:02
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Prof. Christina Pagel    (@chrischirp): LONG COVID  : Clips from today's @IndependentSage from world leading experts. PLEASE WATCH!1. @EricTopol We know a LOT MORE now about how Long Covid manifests in people & physiological mechanisms (loads) BUT are FAR BEHIND on finding treatments. [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/163934577545172582820:31
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): USA = XBBscovid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra…XBB.1.9.1, XBB.1.5.1 showing up; XBB.1.16 detected. Rise of any of these new XBBs (beyond XBB.1.5) unlikely to signal a change from current statusMore on that projection here erictopol.substack.com/p/a-break-from… [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/163935260291907993620:51
de-facto%title https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/country-overviews21:25
Brainstormde-facto: From www.ecdc.europa.eu: Weekly COVID-19 country overview21:25
de-factoLjL, seems XBB.1.5 is all over Europe already21:25
de-factoTab "virus variants"21:25
de-facto%title https://imgur.com/a/rijOb9X21:30
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: Europe: SARS-CoV-2 VoCs evolution per country - Album on Imgur21:30
de-factolooks like Italy has a very similar variant distribution compared with e.g. Germany21:30
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Steve Miller (@SteveMillerOC): Isolationist clown who prefers appeasement and uses false choices to make his argument. twitter.com/desantiswarroo… → https://twitter.com/SteveMillerOC/status/163936421768085913621:39
LjLde-facto, gives signs to stop growing at some point though... like in italy and poland, and sweden, unless they are sequencing (lack of) artifacts21:49
LjLlooks like Cyprus has the best sequencing21:50
de-factoi doubt it stops growing, the tail end may be inaccurate because of the lab delay etc21:50
de-factoits going to become the majority of cases with some XBB derivative21:51
de-factojust as predicted by all those that talked since months about it on twitter21:51
LjLlab delays? will they change past weeks retroactively?21:52
LjLif so then these graphs as seen now mean very little21:53
de-factoidk but i think the variant analysis may come with significant delay, so depending on when the data becomes available the variant data could be adjusted according to sampling date?21:54
de-facto(just my guess)21:54
de-factoif such an effect exists it maily would affect the tail of the graphs, e.g. most recent columns21:54
de-factobut the trend is pretty obvious that XBB takes over, hence id assume this continues21:55
de-factoalso its not clear on how many samples those column data was constructed, hence if only few samples were taken may fluctuate quite a lot more compared to more representative sampling with more samples taken21:59
BrainstormUpdates for Cuba: +13 cases since 22 hours ago21:59
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): While there has been progress in ways to reduce the likelihood of developing #LongCovid, there's very little to show for any treatment. Small randomized trials of Paxlovid and Naltrexone are underway. Reviewed hereerictopol.substack.com/p/preventing-l… pic.twitter.com/BY30d03eNv → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/163938401365488844822:57
BrainstormUpdates for Montenegro: +136 cases, +568 tests since a day ago — Ethiopia: +46 cases since 22 hours ago — Myanmar: +38 cases, +5266 tests since 22 hours ago23:01
BrainstormNew from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, MD PhD   (@michaelzlin): B: Oh , well we already proved it was brought to Wuhan in a market animal.A: No you didn't.B: This place is toxic. I'm leaving. → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/163938900350508646923:16

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