| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Efficacy and safety of in-hospital treatment of Covid-19 infection with low-dose hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin in hospitalized patients: A retrospective controlled cohort study → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/1746258/efficacy_and_safety_of_inhospital_treatment_of/ | 01:18 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | Random reminder that there is a poll about this channel (and corresponding Matrix room) that on here, unlike Matrix, can only be an informal thing because there is no "poll" feature on IRC, so, please, just say which of these options you'd favor: | 01:49 |
| LjL | Do you strongly feel this room should allow user discussions again, or are you fine with it just providing information via the bot? | 01:49 |
| LjL | It should definitely allow discussions again | 01:49 |
| LjL | It should allow discussions but only with active moderation and removal of trolls and bad information | 01:49 |
| LjL | I am happy enough with it just posting new information via the bot | 01:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Florida health officials must release 3 years of COVID data, settlement says → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/174a2yv/florida_health_officials_must_release_3_years_of/ | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Marc Veldhoen on Mastodon: (news): CD20i (depleting B cells) and glucocorticoid (general immunosuppressant) monotherapy are risk factors for breakthrough COVID-19 among patients with RA after a 3rd vaccine dose. → https://mastodon.online/@marc_veld/111209404919871332 | 08:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: A Detective Sabotaged His Own Cases Because He Didn’t Like the Prosecutor. The Police Department Did Nothing to Stop Him.: by Jeremy Kohler , ProPublica, and Ryan Krull , Riverfront Times ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses [... want %more?] → https://www.propublica.org/article/homicide-detective-st-louis-refused-testify-roger-murphey-kim-gardner | 11:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: Texas Took Over Its Largest School District, but Has Let Underperforming Charter Networks Expand: by Kiah Collier and Dan Keemahill ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re [... want %more?] → https://www.propublica.org/article/texas-mike-morath-underperforming-charter-schools-expand | 12:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from PubMed: Repurposing of known drugs for COVID-19 using molecular docking and simulation analysis: We selected fifty one drugs already known for their potential disease treatment roles in various studies and subjected to docking and molecular docking simulation (MDS) analyses. Five of them showed promising features that are [... want %more?] → https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37814677/ | 12:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Inmates given ivermectin in jail will each get $2,000 after settlement → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/174ixgu/inmates_given_ivermectin_in_jail_will_each_get/ | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Marc Veldhoen on Mastodon: (news): Updated Novavax COVID-19 vaccine shipped to distributors, to be available this week → https://mastodon.online/@marc_veld/111210860297961441 | 15:07 |
| Tuvix | blacknova: I have information about that, but this channel is currently +mz due to a handful of trolls of late, and discussing this with you would run afoul of the owner's wishes that only the current poll be discusses. | 15:57 |
| Tuvix | Since the owner hasn't set an ENTRYMSG with chanserv or made arrangements to let folks like you know, perhaps you'd like to participate in the "poll" and indicate if you'd find this channel being used to discuss topics like you've proposed useful. | 15:58 |
| Tuvix | No worries. If you'd find discussion useful, noting that would help the owenr decide if it's wroth re-opening this channel to discussion though (feel free to indicate if you'd find such discussion here useful and it'll be taken into account, I think.) | 16:01 |
| Tuvix | Yes, this channel is +z. Probably shown in your client with: /mode ##covid-19 | 16:01 |
| Tuvix | He's the one who set the moderation. I'd normally be happy to discuss your question, but he's been very clear that it's a bannable offense for any ops to skirt the purpose of the +mz to do anything but discuss the poll. Sorry. | 16:02 |
| Tuvix | Are you going to hang around for a bit? I'd frankly rather just set the channel -z and place it where it's useful for more than just 1 person. | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Christine Miller: bmj;383/oct10_11/p2322/FAF1fa made a unique but often unrecognised contribution to public health through her work as a vaccine epidemiologist. She began her medical studies at Oxford University in 1940 and after qualifying in 1947 she worked in anaesthetics, general practice, and the Blood [... want %more?] → http://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj.p2322.short | 16:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Comirnaty, tozinameran,riltozinameran and tozinameran,famtozinameran and tozinameran,COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 21/12/2020, Revision: 44, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/comirnaty | 16:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Wondering this about kids still masking in school → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/174mqau/wondering_this_about_kids_still_masking_in_school/ | 16:36 |
| Tuvix | blacknova: Only LjL can restore converstaion here. I'm not sure when the "poll" will be acted on, but you could reach out direclty, or inquire in ##covid-ops if you'd like more visibility on your discussion. Keep in mind that would be limited to discussion about the moderation here, and *not* discussion about COVID-19. | 17:09 |
| Tuvix | I'm also aware you didn't even know this channel was moderated, since +z isn't always obvious in clients; lacking a channel /topic or ENTRYMSG explaining that there is a Matrix poll (with IRC participation intended) that is presumably a factor in deciding if COVID-19 will ever be discussed here again, you had no way to know this was the case. | 17:11 |
| Tuvix | I have absolutely no idea what the stauts is. The poll is a Matrix thing, with IRC participation announced only intermittently, as channel chat, visible only to IRC users joined at the time. I'm sorry this is so opaque (it's opaque to me too, fwiw.) | 17:12 |
| Tuvix | I'd encourage you to get in touch with this channel's founder (/msg chanserv flags ##covid-19) or inquire in ##covid-ops. | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Jcovden (previously COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen), COVID-19 vaccine (Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant]), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 11/03/2021, Revision: 30, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/jcovden-previously-covid-19-vaccine-janssen | 17:46 |
| LjL | blacknova, virtually nobody responded to the poll, either here or on Matrix (on Matrix, 2 responses, and of the 323 people who were there, 9 remained after a room upgrade; here, I saw no response although sometimes I wasn't opped) | 17:46 |
| LjL | Tuvix, the poll isn't visible on Matrix either unless one scrolls back to the very beginning of the room history, or purposely goes to the "poll history" section | 17:47 |
| LjL | i suggest you stop acting like the IRC vs Matrix victim | 17:47 |
| LjL | it's out of place | 17:47 |
| LjL | it doesn't hold water | 17:47 |
| LjL | so far, what I can see is what I feared: we have trolls and we have arguments with each other, but we don't have many of 80 people here and originally 323 on Matrix saying "hey, no, we don't like it this way" | 17:48 |
| LjL | you're right about topic or entrymsg, I just pastebin the poll somewhere and link it there | 17:48 |
| LjL | been lazy, but it's nothing to do with me ignoring IRC | 17:48 |
| LjL | it's not exactly my fault that Matrix has explicit polls and IRC doesn't | 17:48 |
| LjL | but again, it's not like on Matrix the poll was anything but ignored | 17:49 |
| LjL | blacknova, not "such a problem", but there has basically been no one saying anything at all, except a couple of trolls. and that couple of trolls caused some of the ops (i'll let you guess which) to argue, because i dunno, ops tend to have strong stubborn characters or something. now, if nobody cares about discussing COVID at all, *except* trolls that cause arguments, then is it worth my time and bile? think not | 17:50 |
| LjL | in other words, the channel used to be, qualitatively not quantitatively, 90% genuine discussion, 10% trolling | 17:50 |
| LjL | now the channel is 90% trolling, 10% discussion, mainly because the discussion has almost completely died out | 17:50 |
| LjL | (not because there's a slew of trolling) | 17:51 |
| LjL | blacknova, that's a good question. you should try asking Tuvix, because he didn't ban the one he thought was a terrible offender, but when i made a comment about that offender, also indicating i did not know the whole history, he went adversarial. and when people go adversarial with me and i think i've done nothing to deserve it, admittedly, i go worse than adversarial, i lose my shit | 17:51 |
| LjL | so that's happened, and here we are | 17:51 |
| LjL | also i see there is an open invitation to ##covid-ops... to me that channel was thought of as private, but i understand maybe the lack of +i didn't make that clear if someone didn't know it. the lack of +i was necessary among other things to let Matrix users join, though | 17:53 |
| LjL | at this point, i don't know, join it, don't join it, let's let the trolls know about it, so we can have a ##covid-ops-ops where to meta-discuss whether to ban trolls from ##covid-ops | 17:53 |
| * LjL shrugs | 17:53 | |
| LjL | also i'm not sure how matching against the *already banned* hostmasks of people will catch evaders | 17:55 |
| Tuvix | LjL: The ops weren't arguing. ublx and I had a plan to deal with one of the trolls. Someone (I'll let our non-ops guess who) set the channel +mz without discussing it among the ops first, and without adding an ENTRYMSG or topic change to make it clear the poll was encouraged to be used. I think rule by majority poll is a silly idea. | 17:56 |
| LjL | maybe semantics, you could call it ##covid-people-who-attempt-to-rejoin-but-turns-out-theyre-banned but that would be too long | 17:56 |
| Tuvix | LjL: Not already banned hostmasks. Realname. Now Vyrus knows that if they want to troll here more, they'll need a new GECOS. Happy to annoucne our anti-troll policies publicly (but maybe we shouldn't continue to do so?) | 17:56 |
| Tuvix | blacknova: Discussion cannot occur here while +m is in place. Attempts to do so are bannable offenses, as I explained earlier. Sorry, and it's a shame because I have information about that. | 17:57 |
| LjL | maybe you shouldn't invite people to -ops then when you should know the channel is private | 17:57 |
| Tuvix | Sorry, discussion is currently disallowed in this channel. | 17:57 |
| LjL | but i should be going out and i'm wasting my time, bye | 17:57 |
| Tuvix | Apparently I'm wasting my time trying to clean up the 2 trolls we've had in the last handful of months. Enjoy your time out, but perhaps announce what's happening with the channel better to avoid confusing users like this with actual questions. | 17:58 |
| Tuvix | Questions I have a couple pretty on-point research items that would be highly topical to this channel. | 17:58 |
| Tuvix | By the way, "op-specific matters" in the ##covid-ops topic usually means discussing issues of the channel *with* the ops. That's how most IRC channels use *-ops channels anyway. Feel free to provide | 18:00 |
| Tuvix | Erm, provide an update if that's not the intended use. | 18:01 |
| Tuvix | blacknova: Until this channel is -m, I regret that I will be unable to provide you topical information. Please don't PM me as I prefer discussions like this to be more open, but I'd encourage you to let the founder know, with a direct PM, that you'd value this. I think the founder feels this channel is under-appreciated. | 18:06 |
| Tuvix | It turns out I have misunderstood the purpose of the other channel I mentioned; my sincere apologies, but you'd best send a PM to the founder if you had questions I haven't yet answered about the status of moderation. | 18:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: A Study on the NIH Website Shows A Connection between C-19 and Radiofrequency Radiation. What does everyone think about this? → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/174oxss/a_study_on_the_nih_website_shows_a_connection/ | 18:15 |
| Tuvix | blacknova: You asked about banning trolls, and that I can answer. I haven't been very active as a mod here, and noticed a couple odd comments. We've had issues with too-heavy-handed moderation before, so I carefully brought issues to the mod-team. Turns out this troll was subtle but pretty persistent over months. 2 of the ops had an initial agreement to deal with it (and pull in Libera staff if evasion | 18:32 |
| Tuvix | was a factor) but the founder decided to set +mz instead. | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Marc Veldhoen on Mastodon: (news): Seasonal Vaccination: More than 240 thousand people vaccinated against flu and COVID-19 → https://mastodon.online/@marc_veld/111211885695287896 | 19:34 |
| LjL | Tuvix, if that was your idea of "carefully"... | 19:41 |
| LjL | blacknova, i'll take yours as one vote towards keeping this channel open for discussion, i guess | 19:43 |
| LjL | so we are... hmm, 1-0 on IRC, not really sure on Matrix because two people have voted but unless I vote too, I cannot see what they voted :P | 19:44 |
| LjL | and I only wanted to vote when there were already a few votes accumulated, but it appears that won't happen | 19:44 |
| Tuvix | LjL: Yes, carefuly. I detailed the 40-minute long discussion me and one of the other ops had in anothe more private channel, but you have a "different" idea of how that went down. (putting things in quotes is a bit passive-agressive, and I'm trying to indicate this by doing so, while admitting this is in rather bad form.) | 19:46 |
| Tuvix | It's a way to escalation the tone; let's not do that. | 19:46 |
| Tuvix | My understanding of a 40+ minute op discussion on a possible-troll is something I'd call careful, yes. Not "careful" but careful. | 19:47 |
| Tuvix | Perhaps we could take more in-depth analysis of our prior troll issue to a more suitable venue? | 19:47 |
| LjL | Tuvix, is that quotes-are-passive-aggressive thing in response to "<LjL> Tuvix, if that was your idea of "carefully"..."? if so, I'm going to be aggressive-aggressive and say: are you insane? I might have been passive aggressive but certainly NOT because of putting the thing in quote, for goodness sake! Are you completely unaware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction ? | 19:49 |
| LjL | this should make it easier to be sure someone is seeing if someone is voting on the poll | 20:02 |
| LjL | the ops I *haven't* set as +O should not seen it as anything except that I think they've not been very active on this channel for a while and would probably just be inconvenienced by automatic op. if you want it, just say so | 20:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Tech: Reviewer tests $3 SATA SSD, gets exactly what they paid for → https://arstechnica.com/?p=1974781 | 20:04 |
| LjL | blacknova, despite my decision to make this poll and see what people think (and realizing few people think anything or care), from a practical standpoint, you have some questions about COVID, people may have answers, so at this particular time I don't really want to push moderation etc, if any op has answers for you, they're encouraged to give them to you, and if someone who isn't an op does, just let me know and I'll voice them | 20:16 |
| blacknova | Thanks LJL | 20:31 |
| blacknova | Just out of curiosity how would I know if someone else that isn’t an op has answers? Doesn’t +m(z) silence all comms from non-+v-ed? | 20:33 |
| LjL | blacknova, yes. they'd have to highlight me or another op, that's what i meant. or just say something, but highlighting would work more surefire :P | 20:39 |
| LjL | it's also possible given how things are evolving that I'll soon drop the +m regardless of the poll | 20:40 |
| LjL | but give that a little time | 20:40 |
| Tuvix | blacknova: Thanks for sticking around while the moderation issues were sorted out. I'm familiar with the 2020 (a bit old mind you) study you referenced, but the epidemilogical evidence to date has largley refuted the importance of those lab-studies showing survival of the virus on surfaces in what we could call "ideal conditions." | 21:06 |
| LjL | Test | 21:06 |
| Tuvix | Specifically, this more recent paper offers some possible reasons for the failure of likely-virus material on surfaces to be much of a practical vector: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.1c01369# | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> Raf: yeah but I'm waiting for it to appear on Libera ;) | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> which it did now | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> well, not yet actually | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <Raf> what is libera? is that an IRC server? | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> The room is bridged with Libera again, and the Libera channel is in turn unmoderated again. | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> Yes Raf | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> It's one of the two places this room exists on | 21:08 |
| Tuvix | It's still probably a good idea to clean a surface if someone sneezed on it (or touched it after sneezing on their hand) but the upshot is that you're quite unlikely to get infected from touching a surface another infected person did; the much larger risk is simply sharing the same air as they are. | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> but there is no longer an official bridge between Matrix and Libera, because Matrix people couldn't fix issues Libera wanted to be fixed, so now the bridge is run by me locally just for this channel (and others I manage) as Brainstorm | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <Raf> that stinks they couldn't come to an agreement | 21:15 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> Raf: the idea is that it's "temporary" until the Matrix folks can fix the issues. On the other hand, a Libera operator made a snide remark that I could witness basically taking it for granted it would be "temporary forever". Anyway, here's your reads about it: | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> * https://matrix.org/blog/2023/08/libera-bridge-disabled/ | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> * https://libera.chat/news/temporarily-disabling-the-matrix-bridge | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> * https://libera.chat/news/matrix-bridge-disabled-retrospective | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <LjL> It also transpires that fixing the bridge is not a priority for the Matrix folks because they're short on money and need to invest it in things that make them money, the bridge not being one of those | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | (Matrix) <pwr22> It's easy enough to share particular things here if I want to | 21:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/COVID19: COVID19: Determination of the factors responsible for the tropism of SARS-CoV-2-related bat coronaviruses to Rhinolophus bat ACE2 → https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/174v5is/determination_of_the_factors_responsible_for_the/ | 22:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Not 'little adults': Experts say long COVID undercounted, misdiagnosed in kids → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/174wkfd/not_little_adults_experts_say_long_covid/ | 23:33 |
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