| Hydragyrum | is removing d-bus reasonable? | 00:28 |
|---|---|---|
| ShorTie | my guess is no, don't | 00:29 |
| phogg | some things won't like it | 00:32 |
| Hydragyrum | yeah I see a lot of things depend on it | 00:33 |
| Hydragyrum | from the bluez stack to steam to networkmanager to thunar | 00:34 |
| golinux | It is a rat's nest . . . | 00:36 |
| phogg | better to try stopping and disabling it first. If you can live with how broken things are, then consider removing | 00:43 |
| phogg | I haven't done this in a while so it may be even more of a nightmare now. You'd be shocked how much it's used. | 00:43 |
| Hydragyrum | I mean, removing it would take out just about everything besides my irc client, x server, and terminal emulator | 00:44 |
| Hydragyrum | but that fact reminds me kinda of systemd | 00:44 |
| phogg | In the imagination of the dbus developers it is an essential system component. Actual results may vary. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, but that's just because I've looked at it. | 00:46 |
| rwp | It's crazy but the packaged Emacs depends upon it. Looking into why a while back I found that it was so the GUI could change fonts when d-bus signaled a global font change. | 01:01 |
| rwp | So apparently anything that uses a font would, in theory, depend upon d-bus, so as to get global system font changes immediately. | 01:02 |
| rwp | D-bus is one of those "solutions" so aggressive at solving its problems that it makes its own new problems as it goes! | 01:03 |
| Hydragyrum | rwp, that's only emacs-gtk -- lucid and nox don't have that issue | 01:03 |
| rwp | Thankfully too. I normally use the nox version inside tmux inside mosh/ssh remotely. | 01:05 |
| Hydragyrum | I usually use -nw regardless of whether I have gtk or nox installed | 01:11 |
| sunshavi | I spent most of my time within xterm and an emacs-tty frame | 01:18 |
| sunshavi | just create a lucid frame when dealing with media files like images or pdfs | 01:19 |
| aplainzetakind | Can I just blacklist nouveau if I want to disable the discrete gpu? | 09:41 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | aplainzetakind: check /proc/acpi/bbswitch | 10:38 |
| aplainzetakind | humpelstilzchen[: Does not exist. | 10:50 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | aplainzetakind: ok I assume you have a laptop with intel+nvidia (optimus)? | 10:51 |
| aplainzetakind | humpelstilzchen[: Yes. I just want to use the i915 and not touch the gpu. I'm not actually using any graphics intensive stuff and the gpu is making my fan go crazy over nothing. | 11:26 |
| gnarface | aplainzetakind: probably, as long as the nvidia non-free stuff isn't installed either | 11:26 |
| gnarface | it's rare but some of them can be disabled in the bios | 11:26 |
| gnarface | that would be preferable if the option is furnished | 11:27 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | aplainzetakind: installing bbswitch-dkms should give you the option to enable/disable the discrete on demand | 11:28 |
| gnarface | how well does it support all hardware though? last i heard, it only actually worked for a small chunk of the stuff in the wild | 11:29 |
| gnarface | it's been a year at least though | 11:29 |
| aplainzetakind | humpelstilzchen[: Is it trivial to undo if it breaks things? Last time I tried the proprietary drivers led to a system reinstall? | 11:30 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | aplainzetakind: bbswitch is not part of the official nvidia driver | 11:30 |
| aplainzetakind | I know, I'm speaking in the "messing with video in general" sense. | 11:32 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | gnarface: ok, have not heard that, but I have to admit the last time I checked is a few years ago. Back then it worked on a lot systems. Maybe they changed the Interface on new hardware? | 11:33 |
| gnarface | i don't think anyone will ever admit to anything and i think you'll need a time machine to even prove it | 11:34 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | aplainzetakind: bbswitch is more "messing with acpi" then video, but there is always risk. However apt/dpkg should be able to fully remove bbswitch | 11:34 |
| aplainzetakind | https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/bbswitch Last commit 8 years ago. | 11:35 |
| aplainzetakind | I have random stack traces relating to nouveau in my dmesg. Perhaps I should address them first. | 11:36 |
| aplainzetakind | humpelstilzchen[: Do you have any idea what this is: https://dpaste.com/EGVBXJWEH | 11:38 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | wow, your system does really run hot | 11:41 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | and no idea, but I'm actually using the proprietary nvidia driver on my optimus laptops | 11:41 |
| aplainzetakind | That may be during a cpu intensive task. At the moment my CPU temp is 43C, but the fan is constantly on, because GPU. And whatever the GPU is going crazy over has to be either slack or browser tabs. So quite annoying. | 11:45 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | aplainzetakind: the nvidia is actually not used it just drains power. The intel does all the job unless you start bumblebee | 11:51 |
| aplainzetakind | I've asked #nouveau about the dmesg thing, once I get a response I'll move on to bumblebee. | 11:56 |
| karjala | Is there a way to run snapd in Devuan? I get 0 results when doing apt search snapd | 12:30 |
| lts | snap harddepends on systemd IIRC | 12:51 |
| lts | (And is not that great otherwise either) | 12:52 |
| DiffieHellman | karjala: I would recommend opting to compile stuff from source rather than installing a very bloated snap or an appimage. | 12:53 |
| DiffieHellman | I personally find that if it doesn't just compile with one or two fixes maybe, it's not any good. | 12:54 |
| karjala | I think I needed snapd to install LXD | 13:05 |
| karjala | Since there’s no LXD package on devuan | 13:06 |
| karjala | Anyone here had any luck installing LXD on Devuan somehow? | 13:06 |
| karjala | I bet it’s complicated to install from source. | 13:07 |
| rrq | there's "lxc" | 13:14 |
| golinux | karjala: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 17:40 |
| karjala | Lxd is better | 17:41 |
| harrydus-matrix | lxd adds complexity. It's better to stay small and simple (KISS) | 19:13 |
| luser978 | Chimaera still not out? | 20:23 |
| luser978 | Not in /topic | 20:23 |
| nemo | https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-14-04-and-16-04-lifecycle-extended-to-ten-years … now they tell us | 20:26 |
| nemo | oh well. there's a few more devuan machines at work as a result | 20:27 |
| golinux | luser978: Documentation needs to be written. Isos are pretty much OK. | 20:28 |
| rwp | nemo, Wow, ten years. Agreed that it would have been nice to know that was going to happen before. But it's a tough commitment. | 21:09 |
| nemo | rwp: one that frustrates me is we still have a samba bug with the main file server in devuan chimera and ubuntu 20.04 | 21:12 |
| nemo | chimæra chimaera - ew. who picked that name | 21:13 |
| nemo | anyway | 21:13 |
| nemo | rwp: the devuan ones, nbd - the ones on chimæra are just dev at present | 21:13 |
| nemo | the ubuntu 20.04 was a production upgrade of the CM server due to upcoming EOL | 21:13 |
| nemo | and now we are forced to mount main file server as *shudder* SMB 1.0 | 21:13 |
| nemo | AFAIK that uses md4 for a hash O_o | 21:14 |
| nemo | had we known they were going to maintain LTS for a bit longer we would've waited | 21:14 |
| rwp | I have heard several people who have hit the Samba protocol and/or cipher change (I can't remember which) that caused incompatibilities. | 21:25 |
| rwp | I am guessing there is a configuration that allows Samba upgrades to work back to older servers. But not sure there is a way for older clients to connect with newer servers. | 21:27 |
| rwp | nemo, You should join us in #devuan-offtopic as it's always good there and perfect for random discussion about Samba and even Ubuntu LTS. | 21:30 |
| nemo | had bad experience there. will avoid it for now | 21:32 |
| rwp | I broke my arm in three places. Now I never go back to those three places. | 21:33 |
| nemo | probably same people. not same mapping | 21:33 |
| nemo | rwp: I shattered my collarbone on a bike trail | 21:33 |
| nemo | I sure as hell did not repeat that same set of actions next time on that trail | 21:33 |
| nemo | rwp: anyway. none of that stuff above was OT | 21:34 |
| golinux | nemo: Yes it was. It is a samba not a Devuan issue | 21:40 |
| nemo | golinux: relevant in sense that chimæra is broken but not beowulf... | 21:40 |
| golinux | That doesn't mean that it's a devuan bug. Figure out where the bug is Start with debian bug reports | 21:48 |
| nemo | more like. thing to consider when doing devuan upgrades on production systems. I've definitely been trying. | 21:52 |
| nemo | it's clearly kernel side | 21:52 |
| nemo | unfortunately it's a huge chunk of commits | 21:53 |
| nemo | probably will be about 15 bisects with reboots | 21:53 |
| nemo | with added complexity that environment I'm doing it in is remote and virtual | 21:53 |
| nemo | I'm not even sure *how* to begin until I gain access to a machine I can easily reset so that bad kernel bisects don't leave me dead in the water | 21:53 |
| nemo | anyway. halted chimæra updates at work as a result | 21:54 |
| nemo | will try to hang on with beowulf as long as possible, retesting periodically on the dev machines | 21:54 |
| nemo | with any luck it's a bug in the implementation in the network file server that goes away on upgrade, or kernel gets a patch upstream | 21:54 |
| nemo | but... I may also be able to work with network team to setup proper testing once most recent set of emergencies pass. maybe look at it in november if it's still an issue in chimæra | 21:55 |
| nemo | just super fortunate they didn't disable SMBv1 - they really should have | 21:56 |
| Akuli | is slim still recommended or should i install something else? (installed minimal devuan with debootstrap) | 22:40 |
| Akuli | apparently 'sudo apt install slim mate-desktop-environment-core' is not enough to get a gui | 22:40 |
| rwp | In Beowulf the default xdm graphical login manager was lightdm. In Chimæra the default is now slim. | 22:41 |
| rwp | The 'tasksel' program (dialog asking about desktops at install time) pulls in task-desktop task-print-server task-mate-desktop so you might try installing those. | 22:42 |
| Akuli | nice, thanks! i'll try that if i can't get lightdm to work without it | 22:43 |
| rwp | You can also run tasksel again. Potentially in test mode with -t to see what it would do before doing it. "tasksel -t" | 22:43 |
| Akuli | lightdm works now :DDDDD | 22:44 |
| Akuli | ...or not, lol, will figure out | 22:44 |
| rwp | What action did you take to go from before to after? | 22:44 |
| Akuli | no gui packages installed other than 'sudo apt install lightdm mate-desktop-environment-core | 22:45 |
| Akuli | ' | 22:45 |
| dlcusa | I just attempted downloading and booting the Beowulf net install and live-desktop isos, but both incur "XZ-compressed data is corrupt" halts, even though the cheksums check out. | 22:46 |
| nemo | Akuli: after fighting with lightdm on this one work server, I switched to slim | 22:46 |
| nemo | Akuli: seems pretty reliable. devuan and ubuntu | 22:47 |
| nemo | and if you're wondering why on earth a server would have a gui, it's for the windows admins ☺ | 22:47 |
| rwp | I have always had good luck with lightdm but haven't really worked with slim yet. | 22:47 |
| Akuli | task-desktop pulls in pulseaudio :( | 22:47 |
| nemo | rwp: hm. don't know if channel is logged, but was a few weeks ago when I was trying to get it working in here | 22:47 |
| rwp | dlcusa, That does not sound good. | 22:47 |
| rwp | Channel logs are in the topic. | 22:47 |
| nemo | rwp: don't rightly remember all the issues but I kept pulling in things and getting errors, and finally gave up and just went with slim | 22:47 |
| dlcusa | That's what I thought, rwp. | 22:48 |
| nemo | ah perfect | 22:48 |
| * nemo hunts | 22:48 | |
| nemo | whoo boy. would need a date. but I can maybe get that from the apt logs | 22:48 |
| Akuli | :DDDDD | 22:48 |
| rwp | dlcusa, I am inclined to ask about possible RAM flaky problems. Possibly booting and running memtest86+ for a couple of passes to test it. | 22:48 |
| dlcusa | I gather no one else is encountering this. | 22:48 |
| rwp | I haven't seen other reports, no. I haven't seen it myself. | 22:49 |
| dlcusa | Is there someone who can verify the problem? | 22:49 |
| rwp | It's a live boot image... You could try to boot a different machine from the image. If the different machine works then the image is okay and the first system is the problem. | 22:50 |
| dlcusa | I'll give that a show and let you know... | 22:50 |
| Akuli | slim works now but i think it would break if i 'sudo apt autoremove' :D | 22:50 |
| Akuli | steps to get slim working: sudo apt install lightdm, sudo apt remove lightdm, sudo apt install slim mate-desktop-environment | 22:50 |
| rwp | Akuli, I would be surprised if installing and removing lightdm are needed though. | 22:52 |
| Akuli | it pulls in some xorg packages, i think i got it to work without it now | 22:53 |
| golinux | rwp: slim has always been the devuan default. I know because I theme it. There was talk of lighdm for chimeaera for accessibility reasons | 22:53 |
| Akuli | so this is how to do it, one command to get everything working: sudo apt install slim mate-desktop-environment-core xserver-xorg | 22:53 |
| Akuli | for whatever reason lightdm depends on xserver-xorg, but slim doesn't | 22:54 |
| rwp | golinux, I don't know why my Beowulf installs didn't get slim then. Hmm... Likely I tweaked something along the way that I have forgotten about. | 22:58 |
| rwp | Definitely in Chimaera I am getting slim though. So must have cleaned up my act at some point. | 22:58 |
| rwp | Akuli, Good debugging! It does seem like slim should depend upon xserver-xorg. | 22:59 |
| Akuli | this is much better than my experience trying to do this in ubuntu a few years ago, had to edit a config file just because i didn't know what packages to install :D | 23:00 |
| Akuli | in the latest ubuntu i did 'sudo apt install xinit' and then was greeted with login prompt and gnome 3 :DDD so there's that | 23:01 |
| Akuli | thanks for the help :) | 23:11 |
| dlcusa | rwp, Something's not right with the media, it appears. Too many secure boot systems here now, but at least one other old laptop doesn't think it's bootable, which is even worse than the XZ-compression box. | 23:12 |
| rwp | dlcusa, You get another, "Well that's not good." :-( | 23:13 |
| dlcusa | I'll dig further on the basis the media is flawed. Thanks. | 23:13 |
| rwp | dlcusa, I don't know. I have no idea. Good luck with the debugging! | 23:14 |
| golinux | rwp: The theming get's pulled in with desktop-base | 23:44 |
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