| clemz | does a different init software really make that much difference from debian? | 01:48 |
|---|---|---|
| Hurgotron | systemd is not just an init system. People would have few, if any, problems with it. Compare with Ubuntu's upstart | 02:01 |
| Hurgotron | It is rather invasive, introducing incompatiilities with other flavours of Unix, affecting logging, DNS, networking, whatnot. | 02:01 |
| Hurgotron | https://unixsheikh.com/articles/the-real-motivation-behind-systemd.html | 02:02 |
| gnarface | clemz: in some ways yes, in some ways no. there's devuan live images you can try out | 02:25 |
| brocashelm | devuan = debian without systemd installed + 200-300 forked packages that by default don't work outside of systemd | 02:35 |
| clemz | Am i going to run in to problems if i install packages with instructions for "Debian only" ?? | 02:36 |
| brocashelm | no | 02:36 |
| brocashelm | 99.9% of debian specifics also work on devuan | 02:37 |
| clemz | Can you recommend how to install/build vscodium on devuan? | 02:37 |
| clemz | or which repo to use | 02:37 |
| brocashelm | the only real difference is the absence of systemd in place of alternate inits such as sysvinit (default), runit, openrc, s6, etc. | 02:37 |
| brocashelm | depends. which devuan are you using? chimaera? | 02:38 |
| brocashelm | if chimaera, then you'll want the bullseye repository | 02:38 |
| brocashelm | you can get information on how to install vscodium binaries here (look under debian /ubuntu): https://vscodium.com/#install | 02:42 |
| gnarface | clemz: some packages won't work without systemd: http://packages.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 02:42 |
| gnarface | anything without a hard dependency on systemd should work, but note that all of such packages in the debian repos are already in the devuan repos, no exceptions | 02:43 |
| gnarface | stuff from 3rd party debian repos like winehq-staging though for example, which don't rely on systemd at all, do still work fine in devuan too | 02:43 |
| brocashelm | even using deb-multimedia.org repos should be fine with devuan IME | 02:44 |
| brocashelm | you can use some ppas, appimages, flatpaks, etc. if you wanted to | 02:45 |
| brocashelm | but it's better to stick with the main repository and specific repositories if the main lack the software you need | 02:45 |
| brocashelm | mixing too many repositories can, just like in debian, create a frankendevuan | 02:46 |
| fluffywolf | if you create a frankendevuan's monster, does that make you doctor frankendevuan? or are you in fact the monster? :P | 02:53 |
| brocashelm | ceres was just a simple gal when i met her. then, she entered my lab... | 03:11 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 03:19 |
| fsmithred | you got her running | 03:28 |
| salloid | how do i find the binary name of a program i installed? | 04:04 |
| salloid | for example if i installed foo and the command for running it is Foo, how do i find that information? | 04:04 |
| fluffywolf | reading the program's documentation, web page, package info, is often helpful. many programs contain no executables, many contain a large number... | 04:06 |
| gnarface | salloid: assuming "foo" is the package name in question, just run "dpkg -L foo" and it will dump the contents, look for binaries in /bin or /usr/bin | 04:06 |
| salloid | thanks gnarface ! | 04:07 |
| gnarface | well, actually the binaries might be in /sbin or /usr/sbin too, except with new installs maybe now just /usr/bin and /usr/sbin? | 04:07 |
| gnarface | eh, you'll figure it out. it's a good idea to read the docs though too... usually they're in /usr/share/doc/[package name] and "man [binary name]" | 04:08 |
| salloid | the program i installed is actually a random .deb from the internet with scanty docs | 04:09 |
| gnarface | that's two signs it's probably not worth it | 04:10 |
| salloid | if it takes me more than 5 minutes i will give up and look for something else ahah | 04:10 |
| gnarface | if that happens just tell us what it is you're actually trying to accomplish, maybe people here will have some better ideas | 04:11 |
| gnarface | you'd be surprised how many problems are already solved by stuff currently in the official repo but just not advertised | 04:11 |
| salloid | mm okay, i'm looking for noise suppression with pulse that i can toggle with a gui | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | I use this regularly: dpkg -L <packagename> |grep bin | 04:14 |
| gnarface | hmm, personally i don't know a lot about pulseaudio but i do think they have some plugins and one might do that, but my guess is you'll probably have to change a config file | 04:16 |
| gnarface | some other gui audio processing program might be suitable as a passthrough though, not pulseaudio specific | 04:17 |
| ring-2 | i would try "man -k <my program>" first, then watch the sections in manpages, too. | 04:18 |
| gnarface | is this for input or output, salloid? | 04:18 |
| salloid | input | 04:18 |
| salloid | i think there are ladspa plugins that will do this, i'm not sure if you can just put pulse through those or if you need jack for that sort of thing? | 04:19 |
| salloid | thats how i imagined it working initially | 04:20 |
| gnarface | i think you can put it through pulse, and if not you surely can through bare alsa, it's the "toggle on and off with a gui" part that is difficult, somewhat ironically | 04:20 |
| salloid | i'll settle for a script that toggles it | 04:20 |
| gnarface | i'm thinking the most direct form for such a script would basically be just a string replace that uncomments a config line you pre-prepared in the pulse config and then restarts pulse | 04:21 |
| gnarface | not my area of expertise again though, you might have better luck with this in the pulseaudio channel | 04:22 |
| salloid | mm i should probably try asking in there | 04:22 |
| salloid | i'm just tired and wanted something i could install and not think about honestly 😩 | 04:22 |
| gnarface | well there's audacity... | 04:22 |
| gnarface | might be kinda overkill though | 04:23 |
| gnarface | vlc might have something builtin too, slightly less overkill | 04:23 |
| salloid | would those be realtime? | 04:23 |
| salloid | i want this for VOIP | 04:23 |
| gnarface | did you already settle on a voip program? | 04:24 |
| salloid | i use multiple voip programs | 04:24 |
| salloid | so ideally i'd like something that just creates a new input option with noise suppression applied to an existing input | 04:25 |
| gnarface | google search suggests a pulseaudio module called "module-echo-cancel" can you check for that? | 04:27 |
| gnarface | if you find it check for others near it | 04:27 |
| salloid | i think its included in a package i have installed! | 04:29 |
| salloid | i'll do some reading | 04:29 |
| gnarface | so, my initial scanning suggests you can enable it in the main pulseaudio config then it will show up in a dropdown menu | 04:29 |
| gnarface | as an alternate input device | 04:29 |
| gnarface | or something like that | 04:30 |
| salloid | sounds perfect | 04:30 |
| gnarface | so another thing i vaguely recall was something about pulseaudio also not selecting the high quality input by default, though that may just be an old bug it's probably worth checking on too while you're in there | 04:31 |
| salloid | oh interesting, i'll take a look | 04:31 |
| salloid | thanks so much! | 04:31 |
| gnarface | no problem | 04:32 |
| gnarface | it might have been an alsa or libasound thing actually i'm remembering, and may only matter if your sample rates don't match and it has to convert | 04:33 |
| gnarface | but make sure you're using samplerate_best for that if you see it instead of whatever the other ones are | 04:33 |
| gnarface | pulseaudio works on top of alsa, so sometimes alsa configuration issues can affect it too | 04:34 |
| gnarface | but for example if you see that it's capturing audio at 8000 Hz by default (a surprisingly common but fairly useless default) then it's best to just set it to whatever the best one the hardware can handle is | 04:36 |
| salloid | well this is weird, i'm trying to look this up but my internet is working for irc and nothing else | 04:36 |
| gnarface | that usually means your DNS is down | 04:36 |
| salloid | i've been having weird internet issues a lot lately and putting off trying to figure out why | 04:37 |
| gnarface | ISPs are really generally garbage at maintaining decent DNS, just run a local resolver or caching proxy for it | 04:37 |
| salloid | i should be able to ping someone if i know the ip address without dns, right? | 04:37 |
| gnarface | yes | 04:38 |
| salloid | i can't ping 8.8.8.8 | 04:38 |
| gnarface | worse than just DNS down then maybe, could be your upstream routes are jacked up | 04:38 |
| salloid | god knows, i'm not fixing it now anyhow | 04:39 |
| gnarface | if you aren't messing with routes to start when there's probably nothing you can do | 04:39 |
| gnarface | maybe restarting the router will fix it but usually that's someone upstream making a mistake | 04:40 |
| salloid | i doun't know what routes even means tbh | 04:40 |
| Xenguy | Works here: ping 8.8.8.8 | 04:40 |
| gnarface | well, technically there is one thing you could do in theory... you could tunnel out to an IP you can get to that isn't owned by the same ISP | 04:40 |
| rrq | might need "ping -n 8.8.8.8" to avoid DNS | 04:41 |
| salloid | rrq: no dice | 04:41 |
| salloid | ah! its all back now | 04:42 |
| gnarface | yea usually those mistakes get fixed fairly promptly | 04:42 |
| Xenguy | .oO( The plot thickens ) | 04:42 |
| salloid | hmm nevermind module-echo-cancel is not installed | 04:44 |
| gnarface | it's not part of the base install? | 04:45 |
| gnarface | dpkg -S 'module-echo-cancel' | 04:45 |
| gnarface | ? | 04:45 |
| salloid | it lists it when i run that | 04:46 |
| salloid | but when i list pulseaudio modules it does not | 04:46 |
| salloid | ah maybe its only listing those that are enabled? | 04:46 |
| salloid | yeah thats it | 04:46 |
| gnarface | yea it's probably not actually loaded by default. according to my research you have to enable it in the config | 04:46 |
| salloid | yeah i just thought the command listed all modules installed, not just loaded ones | 04:47 |
| gnarface | and while you're messing with stuff make sure you're not capturing the mic at 8000 Hz; most hardware these days can do at least 48000 Hz and even stuff that's 20-30 years old could do 44100 Hz | 04:47 |
| gnarface | if you can set everything in the input chain to the same value and avoid sample rate conversions all together it'll improve quality | 04:48 |
| gnarface | not sure exactly what type of noise you're hearing in your recordings; there's a lot of different types | 04:49 |
| salloid | i got it working! | 04:50 |
| gnarface | cool | 04:51 |
| salloid | the noise is from my computer fans primarily | 04:51 |
| gnarface | hmm, i'm not sure if the echo cancellation plugin can even help with that, but maybe there are some other ones in there more tuned to the problem | 04:52 |
| salloid | well it sounds like its helping a lot | 04:52 |
| gnarface | oh, well that's good | 04:52 |
| salloid | mhm! i imagine any other noise suppression will work much the same way too so now i know how to do it | 04:53 |
| gnarface | if you look in the same directory that plugin was in, there should be a bunch of others too | 04:53 |
| salloid | i'll take a look | 04:54 |
| salloid | this seems to be the more powerful option https://github.com/werman/noise-suppression-for-voice | 04:58 |
| salloid | i'll take a look tomorrow | 04:58 |
| salloid | goodnight and thanks for all the help | 04:58 |
| peterrooney | "dmesg --human" doesn't page unless less is installed. Is this devuan specific, or should I bump to debian? no obvious culprit in source code or strace... yet. | 06:13 |
| gnarface | not sure, but i'd assume it's by design | 06:14 |
| gnarface | and also present in debian | 06:14 |
| gnarface | worth checking | 06:14 |
| gnarface | man pages page differently if less is not installed | 06:15 |
| gnarface | they do page but with "more" which means you can't scroll backwards or go line-by-line | 06:15 |
| gnarface | or do case-insensitive search for some reason | 06:15 |
| onefang | As they say, less is more. | 06:38 |
| Hurgotron | ...more or less. | 06:53 |
| peterrooney | gnarface: dmesg seems to respect PAGER if I set it, but that's not documented. man man documents PAGER, and makes a check for other pagers if not set. | 07:12 |
| gnarface | so, it's a bug in the documentation then | 07:25 |
| gnarface | i would normally suggest filing it upstream as a patch to the man page but my own experience with trying that suggests we're going to need to fork the docs to avoid obstructionism too | 07:26 |
| gnarface | what a mess | 07:26 |
| gnarface | well, i dunno, i shouldn't be so negative | 07:28 |
| gnarface | maybe you should try it i'm just afraid they'll remove the feature out of spite so they don't have to fix the documentation | 07:28 |
| peterrooney | or just alias less to most, but that doesn't help anyone else | 07:30 |
| gnarface | either way, i'd do a sanity check to be absolutely sure it is also happening on debian before you file a bug with them, just because gaslighting us with hidden regressions is the one last thing they haven't tried yet | 07:31 |
| peterrooney | oh hell dont' give them ideas | 07:32 |
| gnarface | there's no reason this should behave differently in the presence of systemd, but there's also no reason it couldn't... | 07:32 |
| peterrooney | yep, same on a systemd debian box | 07:37 |
| gnarface | i wonder if there's a reason it can't just use more as the pager, or if it was a design choice at some point | 08:11 |
| cws6969 | I want to modify the path of the core dump file | 12:50 |
| cws6969 | echo '/var/tmp/core-%e-%p-%t' > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern | 12:50 |
| cws6969 | But it says "No such file or directory" | 12:50 |
| cws6969 | Is there any other way | 12:50 |
| cws6969 | Or how to generate the file /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern | 12:50 |
| gnarface | what release are you on? you using a custom kernel? | 14:21 |
| gnarface | i assume it's on by default in the stock kernel | 14:21 |
| _ring-2 | The File /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern should be empty but the default value will be 'core', maybe you have deleted the file? If so try this command to create the file and if it has been created successfully write your things in it: touch /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern && echo '/var/tmp/core-%e-%p-%t' > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern | 14:24 |
| cws6969 | gnarface | 14:27 |
| cws6969 | devuan 4 , yes i compiled a kernel | 14:28 |
| onefang | I''m still wondering why my Chimaera install doesn't have /proc/sys | 14:28 |
| ring-2 | recompile kernel with proc filesystem | 14:29 |
| cws6969 | onefang Shock | 14:29 |
| onefang | It has /proc, it just doesn't have /proc/sys | 14:30 |
| cws6969 | Are you using a custom kernel? | 14:31 |
| onefang | Oh wait, there it is. Didn't find it when I looked before. lol | 14:31 |
| * onefang goes back to waking up, need brekky. | 14:31 | |
| ring-2 | cws6969: have u checked your 'CONFIG_COREDUMP' option in your kernel configuration? | 14:44 |
| cws6969 | CONFIG_COREDUMP is not set | 14:45 |
| ring-2 | you may want to read about the reasons why a core dump file could not be produced (examples ulimit, CONFIG_COREDUMP, file permissions, suid, etc.): man 5 core | 15:03 |
| cws6969 | thank you , i go to see | 15:23 |
| Guest1360 | Did my post above get sent? | 17:54 |
| Hurgotron | I guess not | 17:56 |
| Guest1360 | Hurgotron, https://pastebin.com/kVKtMC92 | 18:00 |
| rwp | Guest1360 has left but Jessie has been archived. Can be accessed from the archived URL. | 19:36 |
| Guest53 | Hello, I was wondering if anyone knows how unstable Daedalus is at the moment, or when it is expected to become stable? | 20:39 |
| Guest2 | How to add an item in the grub menu - persistence mode (so that changes are saved on the ext3 partition on the flash drive)? | 20:41 |
| Guest2 | Now the system is loaded in live mode. | 20:41 |
| Guest53 | I can't remember where, but the script is stored somewhere, and you can edit it. It would then need to be installed with grub2-update-config or something like that. | 20:42 |
| __used | /etc/default/grub && /etc/default/grub.d/* | 20:43 |
| __used | /etc/default/grub && /etc/default/grub.d/* | 20:43 |
| Guest53 | oh yeah, there do exist differences between grub and grub2. I don't know how common grub is, as I've only ever seen grub2 being used. | 20:45 |
| __used | sudo update-grub2 probably | 20:47 |
| __used | Oh yeah and /etc/grub.d /etc/default/grub | 20:48 |
| Guest53 | When is Daedalus expected to be stable? Or stable enough to use? | 20:48 |
| __used | Just before the sun will melt the wax holding the feathers on... | 20:49 |
| __used | /etc/grub.d/41_custom >> Guest2 | 20:50 |
| rwp | It's "update-grub" to be run after modifying /etc/default/grub and it is all grub2 everywhere in Devuan these days. | 21:04 |
| rwp | Guest53, The current Devaun Stable release Chimaera is based upon Debian Bullseye which released August 2021. We would expect the next stable release 2 years after that one. Therefore on the schedule it would be August 2023 or thereabouts for Daedalus to release as the next Stable based upon Debian's Bookworm. | 21:08 |
| rwp | The Debian FAQ entry on Testing: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ftparchives#testing | 21:09 |
| Guest53 | Good to know. I'm guessing it still isn't stable enough for day-to-day use yet? | 21:09 |
| rwp | That question does not have a simple answer. I am running Unstable Ceres on my daily driver desktop. But sometimes things are broken. | 21:10 |
| rwp | *IF* you are comfortable debugging problems as they negatively affect you, and ignoring problems if they do not affect you, then it is okay. | 21:11 |
| rwp | Even better if you are willing to file bug reports about problems. Because then you will be the tip of the spear protecting others downstream. | 21:11 |
| rwp | But if you absolutely need things to work and can't be bothered with breakage and can't fix things yourself then Testing & Unstable are bad suites to run. | 21:12 |
| rwp | For example mutt 2.2 in Unstable completely broke the change-folder operation on local Maildirs. A feature I use constantly and rely upon. | 21:13 |
| rwp | I needed to downgrade and hold on mutt 2.1 so that I could keep working while I filed a bug report on the problem. It has subsequently been fixed. | 21:14 |
| Guest53 | Thinking about it, so long as I can log in to xfce and compile software, as well as run software installed from external deb repositories (I use Firefox from a different repo) I'm not going to be negatively affected by very many things. Other than Thunderbird. | 21:14 |
| Guest53 | But Thunderbird passe through about two or three waves of testing before it reaches Daedalus, right? | 21:15 |
| rwp | Everyone will have a different contour of use across the packages. | 21:15 |
| rwp | I know very little about Thunderbird. (One might see me mention mutt. :-) | 21:15 |
| rwp | However if you are using Thunderbird from a 3rd party then the bugs and features will be from there. | 21:16 |
| rwp | The interaction will be if something new in Testing or Unstable breaks libraries needed by Thunderbird. But my experience running Firefox from Mozilla is that I have never seen that be an actual breakage. | 21:17 |
| Guest53 | I use thunderbird from devuan, so breakage there would affect me, but I think I'll risk it. | 21:19 |
| rwp | Calm seas, fair winds, and a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor. | 21:21 |
| onefang | I'm sticking to the ASCII version of neomutt with my Chimaera install, coz they STILL haven't fixed a bug that was lodged long ago, and they introduced new ones. | 22:13 |
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