| sgage | Helenah: I agree. I believe it is a fashion thing. More and more GUI elements are | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| sgage | driven by fashion and not utility or ergonomics. It has to look cool, and 'fresh' | 00:01 |
| sgage | and 'modern'. Gah! | 00:01 |
| Helenah | sgage: Yeah | 00:02 |
| Helenah | :/ | 00:02 |
| sgage | I blame Apple ;) | 00:04 |
| onefang | As with all things fashion, wait a decade, the good stuff will come back. For a few years. | 00:16 |
| Helenah | onefang: I'm not sure if functionality should be blighted with "fashion of the time". | 01:32 |
| onefang | Helenah: No it shouldn't be, but that never stops them. | 02:31 |
| Helenah | onefang: True. | 02:32 |
| brocashelm | is there a way to get mesa 22.3 on chimaera yet? | 03:14 |
| brocashelm | since the packages haven't been backported from testing, and the libc6 requirements prevent the upgrade | 03:15 |
| gnarface | probably not then, unless you want to run it in a chroot or something | 03:20 |
| brocashelm | what if you added daedalus repo, ran update, specifically installed one of the mesa packages, and then removed it and stayed at chimaera? | 03:56 |
| brocashelm | i know other packages like libc6 and locales would be updated, but maybe not the whole system? i haven't tried this myself, though | 03:57 |
| brocashelm | this is just to get mesa to 22.3, unless maybe compile from source? | 03:57 |
| NeverAlone | Bad idea. | 03:57 |
| brocashelm | yeah | 03:58 |
| gnarface | i mean, it'll usually work but what happens is you're mismatching runtime dependencies and compile-time dependencies, the usual results is gremlins and mystery crashes | 03:58 |
| NeverAlone | You do not want to mix Devuan Chimaera and Daedalus repos | 03:58 |
| NeverAlone | Same applies to Debian Stable and Testing | 03:58 |
| NeverAlone | You will get a frankendevuan system | 03:58 |
| brocashelm | true | 03:58 |
| gnarface | yea, worst-case scenario some minor change to the format of the dependency tree causes a package dependency corruption that unravels your whole system the next time you try to update | 03:59 |
| brocashelm | so, the only safe way to do it is to compile? | 03:59 |
| gnarface | yea, you back port it yourself but... eh... with the libc6 dependency involved you'll have to recursively backport most the system | 04:00 |
| gnarface | by that time you might as well have just upgraded to testing | 04:00 |
| brocashelm | lame | 04:00 |
| NeverAlone | Well why you need mesa 22.3? | 04:00 |
| brocashelm | not for me, but for someone needing it for a game to run | 04:00 |
| brocashelm | he's on chimaera | 04:00 |
| NeverAlone | Welp they would've to backport it or compile it | 04:00 |
| gnarface | i'd honestly recommend just trying a barebones daedalus chroot and running the game from in there | 04:00 |
| NeverAlone | Worth a shot | 04:01 |
| gnarface | unless it also needs something from a newer kernel it should work | 04:01 |
| gnarface | and if it doesn't work all you've wasted is the time | 04:01 |
| gnarface | you can just delete the chroot, no threat to the parent system | 04:02 |
| brocashelm | i'm siding with switching to daedalus, since it's in freeze now and will stabilize soon | 04:02 |
| gnarface | it does seem like a reasonable time to do it based on that, however just for one game? | 04:02 |
| gnarface | it'd better be a damned good game | 04:02 |
| NeverAlone | I'm not on Devuan because, I actually don't know why lol | 04:03 |
| NeverAlone | No reason | 04:03 |
| brocashelm | i've been using ceres this whole time, but i've actually just switched to daedalus and all other repos pointing to debian 11 or testing | 04:03 |
| brocashelm | too lazy to reinstall beowulf or chimaera and redo all my configs | 04:04 |
| brocashelm | plus, with reinstalling all of my packages (some would be deprecated/unavailable) | 04:04 |
| onefang | Maybe try a dist upgrade instead? | 04:05 |
| onefang | Though that's why I do a debootstrap and script installing my packages. | 04:05 |
| brocashelm | what do you think of something like this? https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=143926 | 04:14 |
| gnarface | installing them from another distro?! | 04:16 |
| gnarface | hell no | 04:16 |
| gnarface | that's even worse | 04:16 |
| brocashelm | heh | 04:16 |
| gnarface | again, it's one of those things that'll probably work initially but is likely to cause problems later | 04:17 |
| brocashelm | and turns out it's multiple games, plus all proton games not working/crashing | 04:17 |
| gnarface | the type of mess you can' tclean up | 04:17 |
| gnarface | can't clean up | 04:17 |
| rrq | you could set up a chroot target as an overlayfs, instead of installing | 04:17 |
| NeverAlone | Or just switch to testing which will stabilize soon | 04:18 |
| brocashelm | ^ i agree with this | 04:18 |
| golinux | What about backports? | 04:30 |
| brocashelm | there are no adequate mesa backports for chimaera (needs to be higher than 22) | 04:31 |
| brocashelm | quickest/easiest option would be to use testing | 04:32 |
| brocashelm | but the point is to remain in stable so packages remain the same | 04:33 |
| fluffywolf | reset: annoying scroll bar stupidity, I'm using 102.6.0esr | 05:03 |
| fluffywolf | grr, stupid auto nick completion. lol. that should be re:, of course. | 05:03 |
| gnarface | oh interesting, i just realized i'm getting the full scrollbar disappearance on the main window scrollbar too, it's just that slashdot's page layout has a grey border there the same width as the old scrollbar used to be so i thought the scrollbar was still present | 05:09 |
| fluffywolf | there's an option in settings to always show scrollbars, but it seems bugged | 05:10 |
| fluffywolf | you might try it | 05:10 |
| fluffywolf | it worked for me... eventually. it causes pages to go out to lunch for a while, at least here, then work normally with scrollbars. | 05:11 |
| fluffywolf | (like 20 seconds of unresponsive UI) | 05:11 |
| fluffywolf | also, slashdot still exists? lol | 05:16 |
| xrogaan | what is the name of the next point release? | 17:48 |
| xrogaan | after chimaera? | 17:48 |
| xrogaan | Daedalus? | 17:49 |
| Quo-fan | daedalus most likely | 17:50 |
| Quo-fan | daedalus isnt finished yet tho | 17:50 |
| Quo-fan | still a so called sid version | 17:51 |
| xrogaan | It's testing. Should be stable enough. I'm just concerned about this whole usrmerge nonsense and other debianiazeries | 17:54 |
| rwp | deadulus | 17:54 |
| xrogaan | issue with debian stable styled release is how old utilities like mesa3d are. | 17:55 |
| rwp | The UsrMerge is a different problem from systemd and most of us have given up trying to fight it. | 17:56 |
| rwp | So basically the strategy of the standalone / has moved to become the initramfs and everything else is /usr now. | 17:57 |
| xrogaan | sure, but there's still the debian people arguing about how to proceed. Which is painful. | 17:59 |
| xrogaan | IMHO It's not something worth fighting over beyond how stupid the move is. | 18:00 |
| golinux | <rwp> deadulus | 18:31 |
| golinux | Is this some kind of joke? | 18:31 |
| rwp | No. It's me with a slow network causing delay and spelling errors. | 18:38 |
| rwp | I hadn't seen Quo-fan's response at the time I had entered my spelling error. Then eventually it popped out. | 18:39 |
| rwp | A combination of problems including a sync delay of using znc as an irc bouncer. It can take a couple of minutes to sync at a restart. | 18:40 |
| Quo-fan | rwp: if u use a shared znc it might take even more time | 18:40 |
| Quo-fan | even 10-15 min | 18:40 |
| rwp | It's just me on my own znc but I am in many channels and if I restart then it can take quite some minutes for znc to sync up. :-( | 18:41 |
| rwp | After it gets spun up then everything happens in real time again okay. It's really only a problem for me immediately upon restart. | 18:41 |
| Quo-fan | okay noted | 18:42 |
| rwp | I should try one of the other irc bouncers such as bip or one of the others. See if it has the same behavior or not. | 18:43 |
| Quo-fan | rwp: sbnc psybnc and ezbounce do connection throttling too | 18:51 |
| Quo-fan | u cant avoid it when using irc bouncers | 18:51 |
| golinux | Which is a bit OT for this channel . . . | 18:51 |
| Quo-fan | yeah ok | 18:52 |
| rwp | I would have moved to #devuan-offtopic except I know that Quo-fan is only here not there. :-) | 18:56 |
| Quo-fan | ok | 18:56 |
| Quo-fan | sorry | 18:57 |
| Quo-fan | then its best i disappear from here | 18:57 |
| Quo-fan | nuff said | 18:57 |
| Helenah | Don't worry I looked for an ops channel before saying this and I couldn't find one. I wanted to suggest to joerg and anyone else in charged here about a quasi-social model. You see, it's healthier on your community if in the main channel they can get to know each other better and talk not just about the distro. An example is during times like this when it's quiet, where is wrong with two people | 19:11 |
| Helenah | having a bit of off-topic chat? | 19:11 |
| Helenah | I would like to see my suggestion taken on board and discussed even if it's not implemented, some feedback would be nice on the result too. | 19:13 |
| Helenah | Also, it's a lot of effort and redundantly too on the ops to always and no exceptions redirect people to #devuan-offtopic such as times when there is no on-topic discussion going on, when there is no real activity. It's also nicer for the people to not be pulled up on their every single move you see as wrong with no exceptions. I use your distribution, I'm an op in #linux-offtopic, I get the see | 19:17 |
| Helenah | the ops conversations, I can see how #linux is run, I can see their quasi-social model does wonders for the community. | 19:17 |
| Helenah | During times when you have a lot of on-topic chatter, a lot of support questions being asked, a lot of people responding to their support questions, a lot of things being pushed into the scrollback then you redirect off-topic discussions to #devuan-offtopic. I'm not telling you how to run the channel, I'm not bossing you around but I'm giving you advice about a working model that I think would | 19:20 |
| Helenah | benefit this community and others. | 19:20 |
| golinux | Helenah: One reason to not allow OT here is because this and a few other channels are logged so folks can find solutions to their issues | 19:37 |
| golinux | It also makes the scrollback more tedious when trying to find something relevant. | 19:38 |
| golinux | And OT chatter often pushes something I want to find past the cache size I have set which forces me to go to one of the online loggers which is a bit of an inconvenience | 19:39 |
| Helenah | golinux: The log thing never came to mind but it is valid. | 19:40 |
| Helenah | golinux: gnarface resorted to respond to me in #devuan-offtopic, does that mean this is best there or was that just their choice? | 19:41 |
| Helenah | Personally I see this on-topic as it's to do with the channel. | 19:41 |
| golinux | In the header of this channel is says: "take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic" | 19:42 |
| golinux | Please continue your quest there . . . | 19:42 |
| ham5urg | I've tried to install https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/IBBoard:/cawbird/Debian_Testing/amd64/ (a Twitter clone), but I have a dep.-problem: "https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/IBBoard:/cawbird/Debian_Testing/amd64/" . A "apt search librest" shows a version "librest-1.0-0/testing,now 0.9.1-4 amd64 [installed,automatic]". Is this dep.-missmatch resolvable? At least the installed librest | 21:16 |
| ham5urg | version is higher as the requested one. | 21:16 |
| gnarface | it's a package not available in devuan? | 21:24 |
| gnarface | you might need to rebuild it | 21:24 |
| ham5urg | Yes, it's not available in Devuan. Neither in Debian. | 21:26 |
| gnarface | well, there's probably a good reason, but you can try to rebuild the package to fix the dependency mismatch; it's done by a fairly dumb string comparison so if they just named the dependency package differently it wouldn't match | 21:30 |
| ham5urg | I've changed the librest version in meson.build and did a "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -D -us -uc" but got a ton of "Soup"-errors. It's quite an output and I guess it is not worth the try https://pastebin.com/aUW840AE | 21:41 |
| gnarface | i couldn't say for sure, but it's certainly possible that just too much is different about the librest version they use... have you tried building it too? | 21:50 |
| rrq | looks like ABI competition between libsoup-2.4.vapi and libsoup-3.0.vapi | 21:51 |
| gnarface | ah | 21:51 |
| rrq | no idea ho to resolve :) maybe there's a place to make a choice? | 21:57 |
| ham5urg | I changed the libsoup version to 3.0 in meson.build, now I get a lot of "error: The type name `Rest.OAuthProxy' could not be found" : https://pastebin.com/BuEGQK85 | 21:58 |
| rrq | OAuthProxy appear documented in librest-doc .. does it need a -dev version installed? | 22:04 |
| ham5urg | I did an "apt build-dep cawbird" and "librest-dev/testing,now 0.9.1-4 amd64 [installiert]" is installed. | 22:09 |
| rrq | perhaps librest-extras-dev ? | 22:10 |
| ham5urg | Same error, mmh | 22:11 |
| ham5urg | Some lines from the meson.build file: https://pastebin.com/d8Mr9KaM | 22:15 |
| rrq | right; depends on rest-1.0 where oauth-proxy.h is under 0.7 (I have chimaera though.. and is not in the middle of building :) | 22:21 |
| ham5urg | I edited meson.build and added 1.0 as it is the only one on testing. I use testing in this case. | 22:22 |
| rrq | there's /usr/include/rest-1.0/rest/rest-oauth2-proxy.h though | 22:23 |
| rrq | perhaps a naming issue on the "include" line(s) | 22:24 |
| rrq | (due to version diff) | 22:24 |
| rrq | nope | 22:26 |
| ham5urg | did a grep -R include but a ton of output | 22:26 |
| rrq | OAuthProxy is only in /usr/include/rest-0.7/rest/oauth-proxy.h | 22:26 |
| ham5urg | Indeed | 22:27 |
| ham5urg | Any filename in /usr/include/rest-1.0/rest/ starts with rest-* | 22:28 |
| ham5urg | rest-oauth2-proxy.h | 22:31 |
| ham5urg | Will a simple string change do the job? | 22:31 |
| rrq | possibly .. or onto an interesting landscape of all sorts of problems :) | 22:32 |
| rrq | it appears the 1-0 variant preferes the name OAuth2Proxy | 22:33 |
| rrq | or even RestOAuth2Proxy | 22:34 |
| ham5urg | I've changed src/CbUserStream.c:#include <rest/rest-oauth2-proxy.h> and src/CbUserStream.h:#include <rest/rest-oauth2-proxy.h> | 22:34 |
| ham5urg | To what shall I change "Rest.OAuthProxy"? | 22:35 |
| ham5urg | I try Rest.OAuth2Proxy | 22:35 |
| rrq | might need OAuth2Proxy => RestOAuth2Proxy ... and then hope for no other ABI changes | 22:35 |
| ham5urg | Ok | 22:36 |
| ham5urg | To many errors, I guess a newer version of cawbird is needed. https://pastebin.com/jmz7scW9 | 22:43 |
| rrq | mmm, Rest.OAuth2Proxy should be Rest.RestOAuth2Proxy shouldn't it? | 22:44 |
| ham5urg | Ok, I try again | 22:45 |
| ham5urg | The type name `Rest.RestOAuth2Proxy' could not be found | 22:45 |
| ham5urg | They have hard to reach dependencies: https://github.com/IBBoard/cawbird#build-dependencies | 22:46 |
| ham5urg | librest-0.7 is fixated | 22:46 |
| ham5urg | Testing is too new | 22:46 |
| rrq | right. time for a different quest I suppose :) | 22:47 |
| ham5urg | There should be a law: Never break the ABI... | 22:56 |
| rrq | +1 | 22:58 |
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