| brocashelm | a theoretical question, but with the ability to use debian with sysvinit again, is it possible to remove all systemd dependencies without using a devuan repo or pinning to prefer certain packages with devuan versioning? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| bgstack15 | My customized Nvidia-tool-assisted xorg.conf has not been altered. | 00:02 |
| brocashelm | someone on here was having nvidia problems last night and we couldn't figure anything out for him | 00:02 |
| brocashelm | search for necrodiver in the logs | 00:03 |
| bgstack15 | Hey-o! Downgrading those *font* packages back to a month ago's versions, re-running "sudo fc-cache" [probably redundant after apt] and restarting xfce4-terminal and fluxbox show marked improvements! | 00:05 |
| bgstack15 | Holding "fontconfig" to 2.13.1-4.5 (back from the current 2.14.1-3) does the trick. | 00:08 |
| brocashelm | i'm not having any problems with it now that i've switched to a different font look | 00:09 |
| brocashelm | although i know someone on DNF mentioned about it causing issues | 00:10 |
| brocashelm | https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=766212 | 00:10 |
| bgstack15 | Thanks, brocashelm. That discussion is exactly my problem. I'll watch those spaces, and I guess apt mark hold fontconfig for the time being. | 00:52 |
| brocashelm | that or apt pinning the packages to -1 priority (and then either the specific version or a wildcard) | 00:55 |
| brocashelm | i just decided to do that with thunar and thunar-data after going back to the 4.16 versions | 00:55 |
| brocashelm | ui feels really funky on 4.18 | 00:55 |
| brocashelm | file transfers can be buggy/slow/crashy | 00:56 |
| brocashelm | the right click context ui for devices on the left makes no sense as it just pulls the entire custom actions into it when all there should be is mount/unmount, open in new window, etc. | 00:56 |
| brocashelm | the rest of 4.18 xfce is good. no more csd workarounds, at least | 00:57 |
| bgstack15 | You think apt pinning is better than mark-hold? | 00:57 |
| brocashelm | it will never be lightweight again, but this is the future | 00:57 |
| brocashelm | i think either would work, but i like not being reminded there's an "update" for a package i want to keep as it is | 00:57 |
| brocashelm | i use aptitude hold package1 package2 | 00:58 |
| bgstack15 | Huh, I have two systems still using Xfce but I don't use those very often. I haven't been dissatisfied by thunar on those. | 00:59 |
| bgstack15 | Instead of mark/pinning anything, following Konomi's custom font conf file https://groups.google.com/g/linux.debian.bugs.dist/c/0Y-HKao5Zw8/m/9bQDsWBJAAAJ is perfect. | 01:00 |
| bgstack15 | I'm so grateful for smart people like you who know where to look for answers. I'm also glad I only run updates once a month, so I only get stuck on a rare problem after other people have too (usually). | 01:07 |
| brocashelm | oh yeah, i'm kind of considering sticking with daedalus once it's closer to stable | 01:18 |
| brocashelm | ceres has been great overall, despite a few breakages here (far and few between) | 01:18 |
| brocashelm | i did a beowulf reinstall to see how i'd get by with that xfce (4.12), but being stuck on libc6 version 2.28 meant i couldn't get some of my programs back | 01:19 |
| brocashelm | and fontconfig seemed to have messed up the fonts on the xfdesktop side of things, with the background of the text area being out of proportion | 01:20 |
| gnarface | well, let me know when they fix that | 01:53 |
| bgstack15 | I'm surprised the font thing annoyed me; I try to be flexible regarding that sort of thing. | 01:55 |
| bgstack15 | But the additional spacing was messing up how tall a menu is, and it got old really fast. | 01:55 |
| bgstack15 | Wow, I think I broke something! Somehow, in xfe, when I press CTRL+L which is the default keybinding for "clear the location bar" it crashes! Can anybody else replicate this? | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | bgstack15, not me. It clears the location bar here. | 02:14 |
| fsmithred | on chimaera | 02:15 |
| brocashelm | for some reason, installing openshot-qt keeps forcing blender, even thought it's recommends and i configured apt to not install recommends | 03:09 |
| brocashelm | output of /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00norecommends: APT::Install-Recommends "false"; | 03:10 |
| onefang | When you mentioned that the other day I checked and Blender was only suggested by openshot-qt from dmo.. | 03:11 |
| brocashelm | it's also happening from ceres | 03:11 |
| brocashelm | version 2.6.1+dfsg1-3 | 03:12 |
| brocashelm | i purged all dmo shit from my installs | 03:12 |
| brocashelm | before | 03:12 |
| onefang | I'm on Chimeara, so might have changed. | 03:12 |
| brocashelm | seems even chimaera recommends blender | 03:13 |
| brocashelm | https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/openshot-qt | 03:13 |
| onefang | The opposite of what you said dmo does, where it's only suggest. lol | 03:14 |
| brocashelm | yeah, but it's weird that apt is ignoring my config | 03:14 |
| brocashelm | i did upgrade apt the other day, so might be a bug | 03:15 |
| brocashelm | going to try this solution: https://superuser.com/questions/615565/can-i-make-apt-get-always-use-no-install-recommends | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | nope, still happening | 03:17 |
| rwp | Then almost certainly something else that is a Depends has it as a Depends down the chain. | 03:18 |
| rwp | If you have a large enough screen you could try the apt-cache dotty interface to plot out the dependency chain and find the reason. | 03:19 |
| brocashelm | if i add --no-install-recommends, it only installs the single package | 03:19 |
| brocashelm | i will attempt to downgrade apt to see if this is the case | 03:20 |
| onefang | Double checked on my chimeara - openshot-qt suggests blender, trying to remove blender doesn't suggest removing openshot-qt. openshot-qt is the dmo version. | 03:22 |
| rwp | On my chimaera laptop I just did a simulated install and it did not want to pull in blender. I have APT::Install-Recommends "0"; in my apt config. | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | nope, still tries to pull blender and a bunch of other shit in | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | so it could be some other package needing it | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | yet removing blender afterwards doesn't cause errors | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | so, i should use 0 instead of false? | 03:23 |
| rwp | Here are my traces https://paste.debian.net/plain/1269253 | 03:26 |
| onefang | APT::Install-Recommends "false"; is what I have. | 03:26 |
| rwp | Seems like false and 0 should both work. | 03:27 |
| brocashelm | weird... on my other machine, blender is not being pulled in | 03:27 |
| brocashelm | and my apt confs are similar | 03:28 |
| rwp | Usually in these circumstances it eventually comes down to some typo which prevents something from happening as expected. | 03:28 |
| brocashelm | well, i blacklisted blender for now and it only installed openshot-qt | 03:31 |
| brocashelm | bgstack15: looks like there is a new update for fontconfig | 05:51 |
| brocashelm | changelog says "Remove upstream supplied conf.d/10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf - handled by debconf in postinst (Closes: #1030000)" | 05:52 |
| rwp | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/1030000 does seem relevant there. Seems that symlinks were used but incorrectly packaged. | 06:01 |
| gnarface | does it fix the rendering issue? | 07:21 |
| Guest16 | Hi You all | 10:57 |
| Guest16 | Does anybody know if there is a way to install directly the TESTING version (dedalus ?) ? | 10:58 |
| djph | Guest16: as far as I am aware; you install chimaera, then upgrade | 11:04 |
| brocashelm | guest16: make a backup first. testing/unstable can easily break your system if not careful | 11:04 |
| brocashelm | there is a testing iso of devuan IIRC | 11:04 |
| brocashelm | guest16: have a look here for the iso of your choosing: https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_daedalus/ | 11:05 |
| brocashelm | otherwise, if you have an existing devuan install, then just edit your sources.list to point to daedalus (instead of chimaera, beowulf, ascii, etc.) and run apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade, reboot, enjoy living on the edge | 11:06 |
| Guest16 | sorry, it's for a guest virtual machine (inside a Debian bullseye host), no need to backup anything | 11:16 |
| Guest16 | I am trying to download the 7th file (4GB) from here : https://files.devuan.org/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/ | 11:17 |
| Guest16 | would this work ? | 11:17 |
| Guest16 | TNX brocashelm, I'll have a look there too | 11:17 |
| fsmithred | the leaseweb link is a mirror. They have the same files. If you have a good internet connection, you can just get the netinstall iso. All the installer isos will download the latest packages during the install unless you specify not to use the network. | 11:19 |
| Guest16 | Ah ok, actually the names of the files are the same | 11:20 |
| gnarface | i recommend the netinstall as well, that way you can get the install started faster and you don't have to download stuff you're not gonna install | 11:20 |
| gnarface | (9th file) | 11:20 |
| Guest16 | and ... possibly, sth about the UNSTABLE branch ? I dunno the real name of it | 11:20 |
| gnarface | ceres | 11:20 |
| gnarface | there's no ceres installer, and it's not usual for there to be a testing installer either | 11:21 |
| Guest16 | tnx ... Ceres. It does not show up directly, I see | 11:21 |
| gnarface | the normal path to unstable would be to upgrade from stable to testing then from testing to unstable | 11:21 |
| Guest16 | Yes I know .... also Debian does not | 11:21 |
| Guest16 | one last question, If you don't mind .... | 11:21 |
| Guest16 | the DEDALUS, is a "rolling" release, true ? | 11:22 |
| Guest16 | I mean, it will remain testing forever ... | 11:22 |
| gnarface | no, that's only true for unstable | 11:22 |
| Guest16 | uhm ... ouch | 11:22 |
| gnarface | daedalus will eventually become the new stable and chimaera will become oldstable | 11:23 |
| Guest16 | and If i replaced "dedalus" string for "testing" in the repos ? Would this work ? | 11:23 |
| brocashelm | testing and unstable are currently very close | 11:23 |
| brocashelm | ceres is the "rolling release" version of debian | 11:23 |
| brocashelm | *devuan | 11:23 |
| gnarface | you can still use the word "testing" but then your system might break when they switch daedalus out from underneath you | 11:23 |
| gnarface | it's not recommended | 11:23 |
| Guest16 | Understood :\ | 11:23 |
| brocashelm | bookworm/daedalus will be stable sometime around summer at the earliest | 11:24 |
| Guest16 | so I'd have to upgrade to Ceres to get a real rolling version | 11:24 |
| brocashelm | yes | 11:24 |
| brocashelm | ceres has no "upgrade path"; just whatever comes up on the repos | 11:24 |
| gnarface | if you do a minimal install it's not so bad | 11:24 |
| gnarface | there's only about 500MB of packages if you don't check any boxes in the tasksel panel of the installer | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | i've been using ceres for three years and it's not that bad if you know what you're doing | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | even then, tread carefully | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | although since ceres and daedalus are so close right now, one can switch back and forth and not deal with dependency issues (although it can still happen) | 11:25 |
| Guest16 | I would only like to experiment within a VM, not really critical situation | 11:26 |
| Guest16 | Thank you all for advices ! Really kind of you | 11:27 |
| brocashelm | then it should be fine and have fun | 11:27 |
| onefang | Northern hemisphere summer I guess you mean. My humming air conditioner tells me it's summer here in the southern hemisphere. | 11:27 |
| Guest16 | ah ha, yes, I write from Italy | 11:27 |
| brocashelm | lol | 11:27 |
| brocashelm | but ceres is pretty stable in execution. if there are bugs, they get patched quicker than testing | 11:28 |
| brocashelm | testing can take up to ten days for a fixed build | 11:28 |
| brocashelm | i recommend installing apt-listbugs | 11:29 |
| brocashelm | that will prompt you before you do anything | 11:29 |
| brocashelm | (if there are any bugs reported) | 11:29 |
| Guest16 | I'm not an advanced user so as to exploit it properly, I'm afraid | 11:29 |
| Guest16 | but I'll follow the advice | 11:29 |
| Guest16 | TNX. See you soon. Pleased to have met you | 11:32 |
| bgstack15 | bgstack15 | 13:28 |
| bgstack15 | sorry, failed to hit CTRL+F first. | 13:28 |
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